Yeah, exactly! There's an action bar, a minimap/compass thing... I mean, I dunno about you, but I'm sick and tired of these same old Theme Park MMOs coming out. There's no originality. A rolled up a Charr, and as soon as I got past the tutorial during the last paid beta for GW2, I found myself having flashbacks to Thunder Bluff.
In both, I was expected to just wander around and see the sights, with random NPCs jumping up and down trying to get my attention and give me some sort of "quest" to accomplish. Speaking of which, at least in WoW they told me how many mobs I have to kill for their stupid, pointless grindy quest. In GW2 I just have to guess, and that's annoying.
GW2 is such a rip-off that the Charr starting area even has places along the mountains where there are a bunch of harpies. HELLO, Mulgore much?!! Hey, try to guess the game from this description: I wandered around as a giant furry with my loyal wolf by my side and I killed tons of evvvviiill members of my race, along with ogres, harpies, giant ground birds. I did this by mashing my action bar buttons, keyboard turning, and running around aimlessly for hours on end.
Guess what? You can't guess the game, because they're BOTH the same!!
Come on, ArenaNet, where's the variety? You promised us hope and change and a revolutionary new MMO, but it's just the same story as Blizzard. Are you sure you're not owned by Activision??? You can't even give us a solid release date, it's just "soon", which is what I hear all the time.
If you expect me to give you my $15/month instead of WoW, then you need to actually have a game that feels different.
I'm very excited for GW2 and for the most part really liked the last BWE and am looking forward to the next one and the release of the game
But damn it can be a bit of an echo chamber in here. No the game is not exactly the same as WoW, but its not quite as revolutionary as everyone seems to think it is. Some of it (the 'heart' affinity system for example) is just something that has been slickly repackaged, but you are still killing 10 boars or putting out 10 fires. The nice innovation is that its a choice what proportion of fires you put out vs how many boars you kill.
Plus the combat is well designed, but its not without its annoyances either - Auto targeting enemies further away from you rather than the guy in front of you/poor combat messaging.
Again, I AM excited about the game. Its a good game. But its not SO different.
I think there may also be the fact that those of us who are excited aren't all excited about the exact same things. I mean, sure, I like dynamic events a lot, and I like the way combat feels, and I like the abolition of the trinity. But more than that, I like the fact that this is, bar none, hands down, the easiest game in which I can get in with my sandbox-loving, quest-eschewing husband and not be separated by levels if he plays more, or PvPs more, or if we want to bring a friend into the game later we don't have to either roll alts or say "hey, give us a ring when you reach level XX", and the thing is that the dynamic events, the combat, and the abolition of the holy trinity is what feeds into making that possible.
That is why I'm hyped about the game and it isn't merely a matter of "doing X slightly better than Rift or Wow or whatever other MMO."
Yeah, exactly! There's an action bar, a minimap/compass thing... I mean, I dunno about you, but I'm sick and tired of these same old Theme Park MMOs coming out. There's no originality. A rolled up a Charr, and as soon as I got past the tutorial during the last paid beta for GW2, I found myself having flashbacks to Thunder Bluff.
In both, I was expected to just wander around and see the sights, with random NPCs jumping up and down trying to get my attention and give me some sort of "quest" to accomplish. Speaking of which, at least in WoW they told me how many mobs I have to kill for their stupid, pointless grindy quest. In GW2 I just have to guess, and that's annoying.
GW2 is such a rip-off that the Charr starting area even has places along the mountains where there are a bunch of harpies. HELLO, Mulgore much?!! Hey, try to guess the game from this description: I wandered around as a giant furry with my loyal wolf by my side and I killed tons of evvvviiill members of my race, along with ogres, harpies, giant ground birds. I did this by mashing my action bar buttons, keyboard turning, and running around aimlessly for hours on end.
Guess what? You can't guess the game, because they're BOTH the same!!
Come on, ArenaNet, where's the variety? You promised us hope and change and a revolutionary new MMO, but it's just the same story as Blizzard. Are you sure you're not owned by Activision??? You can't even give us a solid release date, it's just "soon", which is what I hear all the time.
If you expect me to give you my $15/month instead of WoW, then you need to actually have a game that feels different.
I'm very excited for GW2 and for the most part really liked the last BWE and am looking forward to the next one and the release of the game
But damn it can be a bit of an echo chamber in here. No the game is not exactly the same as WoW, but its not quite as revolutionary as everyone seems to think it is. Some of it (the 'heart' affinity system for example) is just something that has been slickly repackaged, but you are still killing 10 boars or putting out 10 fires. The nice innovation is that its a choice what proportion of fires you put out vs how many boars you kill.
Plus the combat is well designed, but its not without its annoyances either - Auto targeting enemies further away from you rather than the guy in front of you/poor combat messaging.
Again, I AM excited about the game. Its a good game. But its not SO different.
Its mainly other people overhyping what hearts are actually are.
They are exactly as advertised. Hearts are quest hub npcs that hand out quests.
Except you dont actually have to talk to them to complete the quests, and you dont have to do the parts of the quests you dont like.
The hearts are an iteration of every other games quest system.
The DE's on the other hand are something else, and a lot of the masses think hearts are DE's and thats completely wrong.
Go back and read the blogs about hearts. Hearts are quests, they arnt de's.
Hey, now, these DYNAMIC EVENTS are nothing new, they're just more repackaging of the same old ideas, just like the rest of this supposed "Guild Wars 2". As an aside, A.Net, if your game is so revolutionary, why give it a boring name like that? Huh?? It should have a kick-ass name that's all inspiring, like... "Planet of Tyria" or shit like that.
Anyway, dynamic events are just the exact same thing - LITERALLY - as stuff in other MMOs. Same with the big scary dragons! Oooo, guys, the end boss is Kerafym "Zhaitan", he's a big scary dragon that has incredible power and that you need a whole raid to kill! SO ORIGINAL
I'm so glad I listened to reVerse, I mean, he is totally right. This game is just Everquest/WoW/Meridian 59 with a new skin you know.
To be fair, dynamic events aren't super 100% absolutely new but more the natural evolution of the ideas started by things like public quests and planar invasions. And I'm okay with that, because they are fun.
Hyperbolic sarcasm is a silly way to make a point.
I'm really excited about the fact that levels won't keep me from playing with my friends. Especially since I'm usually the one trying to play catch-up with all of them.
To be fair, dynamic events aren't super 100% absolutely new but more the natural evolution of the ideas started by things like public quests and planar invasions. And I'm okay with that, because they are fun.
Were skipping a few evolutionary steps here though. Which makes it revolutionary to me.
And hearts to me arnt revolutionary, but the idea that you dont have to talk to an NPC for credit or even start the quest is a revolutionary idea.
There are hundreds of small improvements that make it better that when your done looking at guild wars 2 its like it took the ape version of the MMO and made a human, skipping all the steps along the way.
Sure you can single out one thing and go, this game isnt all that amazing it only improves this one concept here by this little bit. and completely ignore everything else they improved. Jump puzzles in my mmo?
To be fair, dynamic events aren't super 100% absolutely new but more the natural evolution of the ideas started by things like public quests and planar invasions. And I'm okay with that, because they are fun.
Shall we segue into an exposition on how 3d isn't actually 3d because it projects images onto a 2 dimensional viewing screen?
Because we already hit the crucial talking point here. Evolutionary or revolutionary, innovative or exploitive, we have a mechanic that is, to the agreement of both parties, "fun."
Let's move back up that conversation queue, shall we?
Oh hey, a mini-instance in the big PvP zone. Great, because that wasn't completely obnoxious and horrible when WoW did it.
Right, so with WoW, we had stuff like VoA and whatever the fuck they did in Cataclysm. And it was, by general consensus, dumb and boring. Or obnoxious and horrible, I dunno.
So, how does this game's existing mechanics change the concept of the PvP mini-dungeon, to begin with? What is ArenaNet doing with this particular implementation that Blizzard didn't? Thus far, we've heard a few key differences:
- Not instanced, it's right there in the zone
- The zone is always in conflict
- Players can enter the dungeon despite keep control
- Players can indirectly intervene with other players running through the dungeon at the same time
That's just from what I've skimmed through. Is that going to make it not dumb and boring? Well, we could ask some DAoC vets about it, but nobody played that game. Ever. So tune in next week and find out!
So why can't it be both? Does the MMO messiah have to do much more than build on the success of it's predecessors?
We have a new mind-blowing first person shooter every year or two, and the innovations in that genre haven't exactly been fantastic. Hell, the current evaluator of one of the new up-and-comers, the MOBA, is on how similar it can be to its predecessor.
Is it that tough to buy that some people are more enthusiastic about a good evolution of the genre than you are? That maybe we didn't want something crazy experimental and awesome, just someone that looked at the problems of the prior generation and the patterns of others, and said "yeah, we can fix that"?
Hell, its sold plenty of people on RIFT. Sold a lot on TOR and Tera, too. Why is it that we now have to gauge our enthusiasm? Why is it that an evolution is "good, but not great"? You can keep talking about how excited you are about the game, and how much fun it's going to be, but if "completely different" is a necessity for the next MMO Jesus for you, then I don't see you getting as excited as many of the other folks in this thread. Or any thread, for that matter. Maybe The Secret World, but then I'm already being too presumptive of your tastes.
Why am I even arguing about this when we're effectively preaching to a choir, anyways? You wanna talk about echo chambers, look at what these threads turn into every time someone brings up the "fun but not <safety adverb> new" argument. There was actually news today/yesterday, lets talk about that.
People find different things exciting and revolutionary and as human beings we attempt to make other people understand our world view but they find different things exciting and revolutionary and then we yell at each other I just want to lick a charr's nose guys c'mon
People find different things exciting and revolutionary and as human beings we attempt to make other people understand our world view but they find different things exciting and revolutionary and then we yell at each other I just want to lick a charr's nose guys c'mon
hey caedere :winky:
I'M NOT YELLING
I TYPE IN CAPS WHEN I YELL
like this
More and more, I'm happy beta wasn't this weekend. Hopefully we can breeze through this crunch at work so that I can leave early next Friday.
In the end, what matters is that GW2 is incredibly fun to play and successfully progresses the MMO genre further than any other title so far. How much of a leap it is might be down to player opinion but who cares? The game is dripping with AAA quality and is a blast in PvP and the freedom to "adventure" in PvE is a huge breath of fresh air.
In my opinion, GW2 will be revolutionary because it will shift perception about what is acceptable for an MMO in terms of gameplay and subscription models.
I like the fact that this is, bar none, hands down, the easiest game in which I can get in with my sandbox-loving, quest-eschewing husband and not be separated by levels if he plays more, or PvPs more, or if we want to bring a friend into the game later we don't have to either roll alts or say "hey, give us a ring when you reach level XX", and the thing is that the dynamic events, the combat, and the abolition of the holy trinity is what feeds into making that possible.
That is why I'm hyped about the game and it isn't merely a matter of "doing X slightly better than Rift or Wow or whatever other MMO."
Your reasons are the exact same as mine as to why I'm so hyped about GW2 myself. I mean, all the cool races and lore and visuals and such is just icing on the cake, to me.
People find different things exciting and revolutionary and as human beings we attempt to make other people understand our world view but they find different things exciting and revolutionary and then we yell at each other I just want to lick a charr's nose guys c'mon
hey caedere :winky:
:^:
Well-fucking-played. I award you Award for Best Use of Spoiler Tag, as well as the Lifetime Winky Achievement Award.
Oh hey, a mini-instance in the big PvP zone. Great, because that wasn't completely obnoxious and horrible when WoW did it.
Right, so with WoW, we had stuff like VoA and whatever the fuck they did in Cataclysm. And it was, by general consensus, dumb and boring. Or obnoxious and horrible, I dunno.
So, how does this game's existing mechanics change the concept of the PvP mini-dungeon, to begin with? What is ArenaNet doing with this particular implementation that Blizzard didn't? Thus far, we've heard a few key differences:
- Not instanced, it's right there in the zone
- The zone is always in conflict
- Players can enter the dungeon despite keep control
- Players can indirectly intervene with other players running through the dungeon at the same time
That's just from what I've skimmed through. Is that going to make it not dumb and boring? Well, we could ask some DAoC vets about it, but nobody played that game. Ever. So tune in next week and find out!
VoA wasn't dumb and boring. The only issue was that if you were on a server where you could never win WG (for whatever reason, likely faction imbalance), you had a hell of a time ever seeing the damn place.
Since this dungeon is apparently non-instanced and open at all times (from what we've seen) and the servers you are matched up against switch to be more even, this shouldn't be a problem since the design is completely different.
Hey guys, I was just reviewing some of my notes from the last BWE, and remembered the most revolutionary feature that GW2 is implementing. It's the number one feature people are looking for in MMOs, but unfortunately it's ridiculously difficult to pull off, so most games ship with it as a promised "to-be-added-asap" feature. Usually most never get around to it.
Word is GW2 is going to have it at launch.
Spoilered for length.
Fun!
Yep. Feeling that hype-blood starting to flow back to the nether regions...getting light-headed...need to lie down.
In the end, what matters is that GW2 is incredibly fun to play and successfully progresses the MMO genre further than any other title so far. How much of a leap it is might be down to player opinion but who cares? The game is dripping with AAA quality and is a blast in PvP and the freedom to "adventure" in PvE is a huge breath of fresh air.
In my opinion, GW2 will be revolutionary because it will shift perception about what is acceptable for an MMO in terms of gameplay and subscription models.
That's certainly my hope. Too many games are still trying to just do what WoW did but slightly better. RIFT has pretty much done that to its logical end, and I don't think many (or any) other MMO developers will be able to match their level of capability (the RIFT team is clearly efficient, well led, nimble, and made an MMO because they love to play MMOs, rather than just to try a new market [*cough*SWTOR*cough*]). GW2 could start a new epoch in MMO design, as WoW did before and EQ (and UO) did before that. I'm not saying that there haven't been MMOs that broke the mold, just none that blew the mold away and inspired everything after.
As for Sub models...I really can't even look at P2P MMOs now without thinking 'I'd play it if it was just buy to play...'. It's not so much that it's expensive - I can afford it, and most MMOs I could probably get my enjoyment out the first month, but just the knowledge deep down that if I feel like giving the game another shot, or leaving for a few weeks, or whatever, that I'll have to sink another $15 just to try it again outside of little trial windows just makes me recoil a little.
steejee on
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
One of the coolest things that we’ve added to WvW recently is a persistent mini-dungeon that can be accessed through the three keeps in the center map. This area is designed with multiplayer PvP in mind and players can do things like activate the traps in the mini-dungeon to defeat enemy players. Of course, at the end of the area there’s a chest full of rewards.
That's certainly my hope. Too many games are still trying to just do what WoW did but slightly better. RIFT has pretty much done that to its logical end, and I don't think many (or any) other MMO developers will be able to match their level of capability (the RIFT team is clearly efficient, well led, nimble, and made an MMO because they love to play MMOs, rather than just to try a new market [*cough*SWTOR*cough*]).
Yeah, i think RIFT is pretty much the evolution of the WoW formula. They have all the mechanics fine tuned. Their problem is actually that their "world" is so bland
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
All I'm saying is that the more content they try to shove into the PvP areas the worse the game will be because Arena.net has proved with their previous game that they suck ass when it comes to making a PvP game. Fucking Diablo 2 has better PvP than GW1.
GW1 has pretty awesome PvP for an RPG. The major shortcomings in GW1 are probably the meta-game stuff, the healers, and the dual-class system. I think GW2 has pretty obviously improved/eliminated those things.
That aside, WvW is a bit different from the structured PvP. Structured PvP is going to be the "pure" thing. With the side bits and pieces already in WvW like PvE events and skill points, competitive dungeons aren't that bizarre. People who don't like the dungeon thing can just stay on the surface and play keep warfare.
All I'm saying is that the more content they try to shove into the PvP areas the worse the game will be because Arena.net has proved with their previous game that they suck ass when it comes to making a PvP game. Fucking Diablo 2 has better PvP than GW1.
I enjoy both GW1 and GW2 styles of PvP, though I prefer less of GW1's "Fight NPCs to gain points" Faction grind and more of the RA "how do we defeat that team combination?".
So, not sure what you're on about but it seems like you don't like anything.
0
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Is there any official pub date yet on this baby, or are they doing the usual MMO dance with WORLD OF WARCRAFT-- "I'm not gonna announce a pub date, you announce first !" "No, you announce first !"
All I'm saying is that the more content they try to shove into the PvP areas the worse the game will be because Arena.net has proved with their previous game that they suck ass when it comes to making a PvP game. Fucking Diablo 2 has better PvP than GW1.
I enjoy both GW1 and GW2 styles of PvP, though I prefer less of GW1's "Fight NPCs to gain points" Faction grind and more of the RA "how do we defeat that team combination?".
So, not sure what you're on about but it seems like you don't like anything.
I like good things that are fun like kittens, Jenna Marbles and GW2 PvE.
Posts
I think there may also be the fact that those of us who are excited aren't all excited about the exact same things. I mean, sure, I like dynamic events a lot, and I like the way combat feels, and I like the abolition of the trinity. But more than that, I like the fact that this is, bar none, hands down, the easiest game in which I can get in with my sandbox-loving, quest-eschewing husband and not be separated by levels if he plays more, or PvPs more, or if we want to bring a friend into the game later we don't have to either roll alts or say "hey, give us a ring when you reach level XX", and the thing is that the dynamic events, the combat, and the abolition of the holy trinity is what feeds into making that possible.
That is why I'm hyped about the game and it isn't merely a matter of "doing X slightly better than Rift or Wow or whatever other MMO."
Hey, now, these DYNAMIC EVENTS are nothing new, they're just more repackaging of the same old ideas, just like the rest of this supposed "Guild Wars 2". As an aside, A.Net, if your game is so revolutionary, why give it a boring name like that? Huh?? It should have a kick-ass name that's all inspiring, like... "Planet of Tyria" or shit like that.
Anyway, dynamic events are just the exact same thing - LITERALLY - as stuff in other MMOs. Same with the big scary dragons! Oooo, guys, the end boss is Kerafym "Zhaitan", he's a big scary dragon that has incredible power and that you need a whole raid to kill! SO ORIGINAL
I'm so glad I listened to reVerse, I mean, he is totally right. This game is just Everquest/WoW/Meridian 59 with a new skin you know.
Hi buddy
I noticed that your image is pretty big, which means people with slower connections won't take the time to load it
Also it doesn't zoom very well for people with smart phones, which makes it hard to read the small text
Don't worry though, I fixed it
It is now acceptable for the internet
I'm really excited about the fact that levels won't keep me from playing with my friends. Especially since I'm usually the one trying to play catch-up with all of them.
Were skipping a few evolutionary steps here though. Which makes it revolutionary to me.
And hearts to me arnt revolutionary, but the idea that you dont have to talk to an NPC for credit or even start the quest is a revolutionary idea.
There are hundreds of small improvements that make it better that when your done looking at guild wars 2 its like it took the ape version of the MMO and made a human, skipping all the steps along the way.
Sure you can single out one thing and go, this game isnt all that amazing it only improves this one concept here by this little bit. and completely ignore everything else they improved. Jump puzzles in my mmo?
We have a winner.
where is that freakin' video, the one with the Norn and the killing of the bears and the head of a goat or something
Shall we segue into an exposition on how 3d isn't actually 3d because it projects images onto a 2 dimensional viewing screen?
Because we already hit the crucial talking point here. Evolutionary or revolutionary, innovative or exploitive, we have a mechanic that is, to the agreement of both parties, "fun."
Let's move back up that conversation queue, shall we?
Right, so with WoW, we had stuff like VoA and whatever the fuck they did in Cataclysm. And it was, by general consensus, dumb and boring. Or obnoxious and horrible, I dunno.
So, how does this game's existing mechanics change the concept of the PvP mini-dungeon, to begin with? What is ArenaNet doing with this particular implementation that Blizzard didn't? Thus far, we've heard a few key differences:
- Not instanced, it's right there in the zone
- The zone is always in conflict
- Players can enter the dungeon despite keep control
- Players can indirectly intervene with other players running through the dungeon at the same time
That's just from what I've skimmed through. Is that going to make it not dumb and boring? Well, we could ask some DAoC vets about it, but nobody played that game. Ever. So tune in next week and find out!
I merely think its a good evolution of the genre rather than the prophesied god-king of mmo shambhala.
So why can't it be both? Does the MMO messiah have to do much more than build on the success of it's predecessors?
We have a new mind-blowing first person shooter every year or two, and the innovations in that genre haven't exactly been fantastic. Hell, the current evaluator of one of the new up-and-comers, the MOBA, is on how similar it can be to its predecessor.
Is it that tough to buy that some people are more enthusiastic about a good evolution of the genre than you are? That maybe we didn't want something crazy experimental and awesome, just someone that looked at the problems of the prior generation and the patterns of others, and said "yeah, we can fix that"?
Hell, its sold plenty of people on RIFT. Sold a lot on TOR and Tera, too. Why is it that we now have to gauge our enthusiasm? Why is it that an evolution is "good, but not great"? You can keep talking about how excited you are about the game, and how much fun it's going to be, but if "completely different" is a necessity for the next MMO Jesus for you, then I don't see you getting as excited as many of the other folks in this thread. Or any thread, for that matter. Maybe The Secret World, but then I'm already being too presumptive of your tastes.
Why am I even arguing about this when we're effectively preaching to a choir, anyways? You wanna talk about echo chambers, look at what these threads turn into every time someone brings up the "fun but not <safety adverb> new" argument. There was actually news today/yesterday, lets talk about that.
I guess this is also a good time and place to let people who may want a beta key know that GWG2Guru has a contest to win a (1/20) beta key.
I'M NOT YELLING
I TYPE IN CAPS WHEN I YELL
like this
More and more, I'm happy beta wasn't this weekend. Hopefully we can breeze through this crunch at work so that I can leave early next Friday.
In my opinion, GW2 will be revolutionary because it will shift perception about what is acceptable for an MMO in terms of gameplay and subscription models.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Your reasons are the exact same as mine as to why I'm so hyped about GW2 myself. I mean, all the cool races and lore and visuals and such is just icing on the cake, to me.
:^:
Well-fucking-played. I award you Award for Best Use of Spoiler Tag, as well as the Lifetime Winky Achievement Award.
VoA wasn't dumb and boring. The only issue was that if you were on a server where you could never win WG (for whatever reason, likely faction imbalance), you had a hell of a time ever seeing the damn place.
Since this dungeon is apparently non-instanced and open at all times (from what we've seen) and the servers you are matched up against switch to be more even, this shouldn't be a problem since the design is completely different.
I posted there. Fortunately, you don't have to be funny to win. He says up top it's random.
Word is GW2 is going to have it at launch.
Spoilered for length.
Yep. Feeling that hype-blood starting to flow back to the nether regions...getting light-headed...need to lie down.
That's certainly my hope. Too many games are still trying to just do what WoW did but slightly better. RIFT has pretty much done that to its logical end, and I don't think many (or any) other MMO developers will be able to match their level of capability (the RIFT team is clearly efficient, well led, nimble, and made an MMO because they love to play MMOs, rather than just to try a new market [*cough*SWTOR*cough*]). GW2 could start a new epoch in MMO design, as WoW did before and EQ (and UO) did before that. I'm not saying that there haven't been MMOs that broke the mold, just none that blew the mold away and inspired everything after.
As for Sub models...I really can't even look at P2P MMOs now without thinking 'I'd play it if it was just buy to play...'. It's not so much that it's expensive - I can afford it, and most MMOs I could probably get my enjoyment out the first month, but just the knowledge deep down that if I feel like giving the game another shot, or leaving for a few weeks, or whatever, that I'll have to sink another $15 just to try it again outside of little trial windows just makes me recoil a little.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
thats an awesome addition.
Yeah, i think RIFT is pretty much the evolution of the WoW formula. They have all the mechanics fine tuned. Their problem is actually that their "world" is so bland
I agree completely!
Part 2
That aside, WvW is a bit different from the structured PvP. Structured PvP is going to be the "pure" thing. With the side bits and pieces already in WvW like PvE events and skill points, competitive dungeons aren't that bizarre. People who don't like the dungeon thing can just stay on the surface and play keep warfare.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
I enjoy both GW1 and GW2 styles of PvP, though I prefer less of GW1's "Fight NPCs to gain points" Faction grind and more of the RA "how do we defeat that team combination?".
So, not sure what you're on about but it seems like you don't like anything.
(I do)
I hope. Those guys are the worst. When Guild Wars 2 starts up or Pandas launches, it'll totally be cool people only. Totally.
They're gone forever! Forever.
I like good things that are fun like kittens, Jenna Marbles and GW2 PvE.
I don't like bad thiKITTENS