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[GW2]Making a new thread for the BWE. See you guys on Aspenwood soon!

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    AvynteAvynte Registered User regular
    I'm not too happy with the trait line changes, but whatevs.

    betabetabetabetabeta

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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    I understand the basic point that people want variety in builds, but there are still literally thousands of possible builds. You could play GW2 for 5 years and still not come up with every viable build. If you just love to experiment with builds, you will still be able to go nuts.

    There are merits to restrictions, as has been noted. It will probably make coming up with a nice build all the sweeter, actually.

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    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
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    Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Hewn wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Maybe. Or you could look at it as a way to expand builds by making certain traits "harder" to get by requiring more investement.

    Otherwise, you could risk there being THE trait to get, and EVERYONE has that trait, because the few points you have to invest to get it gives you a phenomenal return, and then everything flows from that. Versus people who are commited to getting certain traits building for those traits, versus cherry picking.

    But again, I'll reserve judgement until I have a chance to fool around with it in game. But I'm of the belief (and I think we went through this last time) that putting limits could actually be beneficial for balance and net result in MORE viable builds rather than fewer.

    You make a good point.

    A game like UO gave you 700 skill points to spend however you wanted. Total freedom! Well, as long as you didn't mind being 2nd rate. If you wanted to PVP, there were only 3 builds that were actually viable after you got done crunching the mix/max math. And all of them had certain skills at prerequisites anyway, so there was even less variety.

    So even with thousands of combinations, you were still playing rock, paper, scissors.

    By creating a little restriction you could end up with dozens of viable builds rather than a handful.

    Yeah, you'd have a point except the person who had the highest murder count in the game was a pure crafter. He would make chests and then trap them... then he'd just spread them throughout dungeons for unlucky adventurers to find. BOOM! +1 Murder Count.

    You're correct if you're talking about direct combat, but there were TONS of builds in that game that were all effective in their own way. You just needed to be creative.

    EDIT: Or the people that would poison food then hand it out to noobs. That was good for a lot of laughs. UO is an entirely different beast than any other game that has come after it. "PvP" occurred a lot on a subtle level.

    Ragnar Dragonfyre on
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    steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    As long as I'm not forced to toss useless/trash traits in to move up high enough in each line just to get the one I want then I don't particularly care about them putting a limiter on (*cough* Vanilla WoW, early RIFT). While it was neat that GW1 has 80 bagillion abilities, most are completely ignored.

    EVE is pretty open in how you do skills, but there's still more a less a path you have to set yourself on, can't just hop into a Carrier five minutes in. Helps provide progression in an otherwise freeform universe.

    The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    If you want to re-hash this argument, I think you only have to go back a few pages...the bottom line is that limiting your choices at any given level can actually increase the number of build viable options.

    And the key word is viable. The problem is @Kai_San would rather have a game with 10,000 build combinations, in which 95% of them suck and 95% of players pick the exact same "best" skills, but he can still screw around with completely ridiculous builds because he lives in a fantasy world where he's going to somehow magically re-arrange the skills enough times that he'll find some super-awesome build know one even knows of because unicorns.

    The rest of us, however, live in the real world where it's better to have 100 build combinations, 100% of which are viable, such that we see a majority of the population using DIFFERENT builds that more suit their playstyle. I can absolutely guarantee you will see more variety amongst builds in a system where there are fewer, but better balanced choices versus a system where there are more, but more poorly balanced choices.

    The truth is, if you're trying to build a character to suite YOUR playstyle, and NOT have people yelling at you to play THE optimal build, it is BETTER to have a more limited amount of GOOD choices versus a large amount of BAD choices.

    In other words, @Kai_San is mad because he can't talk about how awesome this game is because he can build a totally useless character 10,000 different ways, as opposed to having 100 ways to build a useful character.

    ironzerg on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I don't see this argument going anywhere. Some people want more freedom, some people have made a reasonable case for having some restrictions. I think we had better reserve judgement until next weekend.

    Also it is beta so these things will continue changing. Try it and give feedback next weekend.

    Enig on
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    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I wasnt trying to start the arguement again. And I never meant to insinuate that there isnt positives to it.

    But its not fair that you turn a blind eye to the fact that some people enjoy different things, and a little of that was taken away from us.

    However that whole "you want customization well why dont we just have INFINATE OPTIONS" arguement is very silly goosery. Thats like what I said last time about how if you want balance then why not have ANY choice and everyone gets one build. Which I admit, was just as silly to say.

    I never said I wanted more, I just liked it the way it was.

    Anet gonna do whatever they want. Im still going to play the game, so lets just chill.
    ironzerg wrote: »
    And the key word is viable. The problem is @Kai_San would rather have a game with 10,000 build combinations, in which 95% of them suck and 95% of players pick the exact same "best" skills, but he can still screw around with completely ridiculous builds because he lives in a fantasy world where he's going to somehow magically re-arrange the skills enough times that he'll find some super-awesome build know one even knows of because unicorns.

    This is really unessessary dude, and its starting to make me wonder why I still post here. The "you dont think like me so you are a SILLY GOOSE OF THE SILLIEST ORIGIN" doesn't need to be said. So stop. Grow up.

    Kai_San on
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    steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    The skill tiering is an interesting choice... does push back when you can get certain skills (as you need to have unlocked 5 to get to the next tier), but doesn't actually restrict you outside of delaying when you can buy certain skills. At the very least it'll mean parties that don't have people that have gone right for one build and show no interest in having a little diversity available.

    Trait tiers does offer a pretty major way for them to balance things better. GW1's 'anything anytime' setup was a bit of a balancing nightmare for ANet, so I'm hopeful this cuts down on unexpectedly OP builds.

    The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog
    Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
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    TolerantZeroTolerantZero Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    In other news! For those still on the fence/want a buddy to play with them during next weekends BWE, IGN is giving codes out like CANDY. Literally.

    http://www.ign.com/blogs/flowen7/2012/05/31/guild-wars-2-beta-weekend-event-2-keys/

    Good luck trying to get a key though; they're usually gone in less than a minute due to bots or the numerous amount of page-viewers. Tried helping a friend get an account set up, but to no avail.

    Steam | Raptr | 3DS - 2552-2106-0321
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Let me put it this way @Kai_San:

    Ice cream shop A has 1000 different flavors. Only about 100 of them are edible. The rest taste like something on the scale from baby vomit to dog crap. Only problem is, all the flavors "sound" yummy, and you don't know which one you're going to get until you take that first spoonful.

    Ice cream shop B only has 100 different flavors, but they're all delicious.

    Which ice cream shop do you want GW2 to be?

    If wanting GW2 to be more like Ice cream shop B makes me a goose, then I'll proudly wear that badge.

    ironzerg on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    I want GW2 to be a video game, not an ice cream shop. :?

    But seriously, let's drop this for now ok. It's not really constructive. ANet knows what they are doing. If there are serious issues, people can give feedback next weekend about it.

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    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
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    steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    Now I want ice cream...

    The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog
    Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
    Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
    On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
    Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Anyway. . .


    Some of the new interface looks pretty nice. Things that were noticed include: sell junk button, new square mini-map that's easier to re-size, endurance(dodge bar) above the health bubble, and the boons moved to where the old endurance bar was complete with new timer boarders to tell duration from.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    I want GW2 to be a video game, not an ice cream shop. :?

    But seriously, let's drop this for now ok. It's not really constructive. ANet knows what they are doing. If there are serious issues, people can give feedback next weekend about it.

    Or we could let people who want to discuss GW2 discuss GW2 in the GW2 discussion thread.

    It's a pretty big announcement/revelation that's been confirmed. Plus, we have to kill some time until next weekend. And if it's a discussion you'd rather not be a part off, you're more than welcome to check back on the thread when it's past.

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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Enig wrote: »
    I want GW2 to be a video game, not an ice cream shop. :?

    But seriously, let's drop this for now ok. It's not really constructive. ANet knows what they are doing. If there are serious issues, people can give feedback next weekend about it.

    Or we could let people who want to discuss GW2 discuss GW2 in the GW2 discussion thread.

    It's a pretty big announcement/revelation that's been confirmed. Plus, we have to kill some time until next weekend. And if it's a discussion you'd rather not be a part off, you're more than welcome to check back on the thread when it's past.

    Discussion is one thing but it's sort of being a goose to focus in on Kai for having an opinion.

    Discussion is attacking arguments and not people.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    steejee wrote: »
    Now I want ice cream...

    There's a 24 hour donut/ice cream place like 2 minutes from me. It has a drive thru.

    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    steejee wrote: »
    Now I want ice cream...

    There's a 24 hour donut/ice cream place like 2 minutes from me. It has a drive thru.

    What magical land do you live in that has 24 hour ice cream and donuts?

    How many souls do I have to sell to go there?

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    naengwennaengwen Registered User regular


    Kai, I'll say that I get where you're coming from, I just don't see it as a loss of customization. It's different, though, and so it's fair to be concerned. But we won't know for sure till we get a chance to play with the revamped system, so...
    steejee wrote: »
    Now I want ice cream...

    There's a 24 hour donut/ice cream place like 2 minutes from me. It has a drive thru.

    Have they got any glazed donuts?

    No, I won't stop listening to Albuquerque, tyvm.

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    HewnHewn Registered User regular
    Hewn wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Maybe. Or you could look at it as a way to expand builds by making certain traits "harder" to get by requiring more investement.

    Otherwise, you could risk there being THE trait to get, and EVERYONE has that trait, because the few points you have to invest to get it gives you a phenomenal return, and then everything flows from that. Versus people who are commited to getting certain traits building for those traits, versus cherry picking.

    But again, I'll reserve judgement until I have a chance to fool around with it in game. But I'm of the belief (and I think we went through this last time) that putting limits could actually be beneficial for balance and net result in MORE viable builds rather than fewer.

    You make a good point.

    A game like UO gave you 700 skill points to spend however you wanted. Total freedom! Well, as long as you didn't mind being 2nd rate. If you wanted to PVP, there were only 3 builds that were actually viable after you got done crunching the mix/max math. And all of them had certain skills at prerequisites anyway, so there was even less variety.

    So even with thousands of combinations, you were still playing rock, paper, scissors.

    By creating a little restriction you could end up with dozens of viable builds rather than a handful.

    Yeah, you'd have a point except the person who had the highest murder count in the game was a pure crafter. He would make chests and then trap them... then he'd just spread them throughout dungeons for unlucky adventurers to find. BOOM! +1 Murder Count.

    You're correct if you're talking about direct combat, but there were TONS of builds in that game that were all effective in their own way. You just needed to be creative.

    EDIT: Or the people that would poison food then hand it out to noobs. That was good for a lot of laughs. UO is an entirely different beast than any other game that has come after it. "PvP" occurred a lot on a subtle level.

    Now you're just making me nostalgic.

    Steam: hewn
    Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    .
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Enig wrote: »
    I want GW2 to be a video game, not an ice cream shop. :?

    But seriously, let's drop this for now ok. It's not really constructive. ANet knows what they are doing. If there are serious issues, people can give feedback next weekend about it.

    Or we could let people who want to discuss GW2 discuss GW2 in the GW2 discussion thread.

    It's a pretty big announcement/revelation that's been confirmed. Plus, we have to kill some time until next weekend. And if it's a discussion you'd rather not be a part off, you're more than welcome to check back on the thread when it's past.
    You arent discussing dude, you are starting arguements and throwing out unwarrented insults. I politely asked you to stop and you countered with... more argueing and passive agressive insults.

    Just stop. For the love of god. Other people see it and ask you to stop and you be a goose to them like "im busy picking on kai_san, fuck off"


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    interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    yay got my beta confirmation email today

    time to reinstall the client and wait as patiently as possible for it to start up

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    HewnHewn Registered User regular
    kai_san, are you an asura?

    Because that could explain why you're experiencing griefing. But don't worry about it, we're better than them.

    Steam: hewn
    Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
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    DraygoDraygo Registered User regular
    We had an internets slap fight in this here thread.

    But guys, there is less than one week till we can play!

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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    naengwen wrote: »

    Kai, I'll say that I get where you're coming from, I just don't see it as a loss of customization. It's different, though, and so it's fair to be concerned. But we won't know for sure till we get a chance to play with the revamped system, so...
    steejee wrote: »
    Now I want ice cream...

    There's a 24 hour donut/ice cream place like 2 minutes from me. It has a drive thru.

    Have they got any glazed donuts?

    No, I won't stop listening to Albuquerque, tyvm.

    They make their glazed sour cream cake donuts with a pinch of curry.

    I know it sounds weird.

    It is glorious.

    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    naengwen wrote: »

    Kai, I'll say that I get where you're coming from, I just don't see it as a loss of customization. It's different, though, and so it's fair to be concerned. But we won't know for sure till we get a chance to play with the revamped system, so...
    steejee wrote: »
    Now I want ice cream...

    There's a 24 hour donut/ice cream place like 2 minutes from me. It has a drive thru.

    Have they got any glazed donuts?

    No, I won't stop listening to Albuquerque, tyvm.

    They make their glazed sour cream cake donuts with a pinch of curry.

    I know it sounds weird.

    It is glorious.

    You live in a place called shang-ra-la.

    Obviously whiskey runs from your tap and it's always a mild summer. You also have no mosquitoes.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    downloading the client from scratch takes fuckin forever you guys :|

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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Good things come in big packages.

    I would know :winky:

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    HugglesHuggles Registered User regular
    Stop! You're all thinking about this wrong and your opinions are bad. All GW2 needs is 24 hr ice cream and donuts!

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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I don't really care for the discussion that's going on because I could give fuck all about builds for a game that isn't out yet. If that's your jam that's cool too.

    The most important thing I've gotten out of this thread is that ice cream is god damn delicious. So I went out and got some.

    Thank you.

    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    I don't really care for the discussion that's going on because I could give fuck all about builds for a game that isn't out yet. If that's your jam that's cool too.

    The most important thing I've gotten out of this thread is that ice cream is god damn delicious. So I went out and got some.

    Thank you.

    Your welcome. And also on the wall of erections.

    488W936.png
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    Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Maybe this is the ice cream talking, but I'm starting to make my peace with the inclusion of the Asura. They're dumb and I'll never play one.

    I also firmly believe that some designer pitched them as a joke and was floored when some shot-caller (who undoubtedly has a socially-inept weeaboo teenager at home) said it sounded like a good idea.

    But whatever, at least GW2 doesn't have a race that was made specifically to lure in pedophiles.

    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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    KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Maybe this is the ice cream talking, but I'm starting to make my peace with the inclusion of the Asura. They're dumb and I'll never play one.

    I also firmly believe that some designer pitched them as a joke and was floored when some shot-caller (who undoubtedly has a socially-inept weeaboo teenager at home) said it sounded like a good idea.

    But whatever, at least GW2 doesn't have a race that was made specifically to lure in pedophiles.

    I think it's the wine in your avatar.

    Kadoken on
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    REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington The Exploding ManRegistered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I don't really care for the discussion that's going on because I could give fuck all about builds for a game that isn't out yet. If that's your jam that's cool too.

    The most important thing I've gotten out of this thread is that ice cream is god damn delicious. So I went out and got some.

    Thank you.

    Your welcome. And also on the wall of erections.

    WHY DO YOU HATE ME SO?

    The login screen still looks so...tempting.

    As for the UI - looks nice.

    As for the changes in skills: makes sense to me.

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    devCharlesdevCharles Gainesville, FLRegistered User regular
    Got my confirmation email. This will be my first time with GW2. I hope it's gentle.

    Xbox Live: Hero Protag
    SteamID: devCharles
    twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    If the build that I made last beta for my thief is no longer possible I will be bummed out, which is really all there is to say about it right now. We'll see how it is going forward.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    Yeah, but on the other hand it will give you an opportunity to try something else. But it is to be expected. Even if the point system stayed the same, the individual traits are likely to change, since that was basically ANet's first pass at the full set of traits.

    ibpFhR6PdsPw80.png
    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    I would expect every single "increases stealth by X" trait to be flat out removed or severely reworked.

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    XagarXagar Registered User regular
    What I'd like is an ele minor trait rework. Compared to other classes they're weak, especially the ones at 15 (except Water).

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    TriiipledotTriiipledot Registered User regular
    Have they made guild sizes bigger yet? In this beta will we be split into two guilds or still have this main one?

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    SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Have they made guild sizes bigger yet? In this beta will we be split into two guilds or still have this main one?

    Let me see if I can find out! (I probably won't get an answer until after the weekend.)

    SwashbucklerXX on
    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
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