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[Company of Heroes 2] Warfare on the Western and Eastern Fronts!

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Posts

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    I am looking forward to this. Particularly glad to see they're doing plenty of work with AI and Player vs Computer, because I am the absolute worst at PvP.

    me too broseph, me too!

    Me three.
    Kadoken wrote: »
    The video was simple, but I liked it. Hmm, I hope I don't feel like I'm getting over saturated in WW2 Eastern front and lessen my hype (When it's appropriate near release). I'm happily awaiting this and playing RO2.

    Even between this and Men at War, I think there's plenty of room for Eastern Front stuff. Unless there's a bunch of other games I didn't know of looming on the horizon. We've moved on since the days you couldn't throw a rock and not hit a WWII game of some sort, but even then, western front stuff still outnumbers its eastern front comfortably--though nowadays, it seems far more diverse.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    I played a 8 man in PA in-house for Company of Heroes last night AND IT WAS AMAZING.

    Can't wait to see what they'll do with CoH2. Hopefully they'll really work on their end user experience when it comes to the interface and matchmaking.

    Honestly, half the reason I play games like League of Legends or DOTA2 is for the silky-smooth matchmaking. They're pretty much the only games out there that facilitate good team matchmaking (both when you want to be part of a random team or when you queue with a team).

  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    -Units can suffer from cold weather exposure, a gauge indicates how cold or warm a unit is. If left in the cold for too long, or stationary, the unit suffers from hypothermia and eventually dies. This happens more rapidly in blizzard conditions, which is part of the dynamic weather system called "ColdTech".

    - Units can utilize cover or vehicles to shelter from the cold and engineers can create fires to warm up units. This mechanic makes engineers more important than in the original Company of Heroes: they are vital in saving your troops from hypothermia. Similarly, troop transports such as halftracks now also serve as a weapon against the cold. Destroying buildings and vehicles can be used to expose the enemy to the cold.

    - Air strikes are available only during good flying conditions; during blizzards aircraft will not fly.

    - Ice is a factor on the battlefield: vehicles slide on icy surfaces. Ice can also break and re-freeze. During blizzards, ice re-freezes more rapidly. Vehicles moving over ice can damage it and explosives can be placed on key points to break the ice under vehicles, causing troops and vehicles to sink to an icy grave!

    - The improved AI featured in the campaign is called "Live AI". It relies on an objective instead of a set of scripted events. This will allow it to perform tasks more efficiently, such as retaking vehicles, flanking and interestingly, restocking ammunition.

    - A Guest of THQ at Dublin, the staff from Multiplayer.it were able to observe game play footage of Company of Heroes 2. This time Relic showcased a skirmish game, 2vs2, where the Relic programmer was playing as Russians and the other three players were controlled by the AI. Below is a dot point brief of observations from the game;

    - The battle was fought on a rural map and it started with the Relic guy controlling a conscript Russian squad and a combat engineer squad. At the start of the game there was a fire camp and as soon as the Russian troops tried to move far from the fire in the camp a little thermometer appeared near their health bar showing their temperature. The temperature gauge was moving faster or slower depending on the weather conditions and also how deep the snow they were moving through was. When the thermometer reached the minimum soldiers started to die from hypothermia. The only way to save them from the death was getting inside a bunker, a building or even inside abandoned vehicles. The guys from Multiplayer.it did not mention if there was a HQ for the Relice guy or not.

    - Another interesting piece of game play these guys observed is the way to capture abandoned vehicles. They must be repaired before you are able to steal them from the enemy. Also, true sight is impacted by the dynamic weather, in fact blizzards reduce the cone of sight of each soldier, e.g. the Relic guy entered a rural village during a blizzard to repair his vehicle and his line of sight was really low so he couldn't see that right next to him were plenty of Germans ready to strike! The Relic guy tried to retreat the soldiers but the deep snow and the strong wind caused the death of all the remaining soldiers. So this means that snow and wind will also affect units retreating away from skirmishes.

    - Another crucial factor is that ice does not break just due to bombardments, grenades and explosives. The breaking point of ice is also determined by the weight of the units you have on it. When you move tanks over ice you see it starting to break due to the heavy weight, the more units you have on the ice the faster it breaks. During the game the Relic guy played, he sent a T34 onto the ice then moved a halftrack full of men onto the ice. Artillery shells landed on the ice and started to weaken it, the halftrack and T34 eventually broke through the ice and all the units sank to their doom!

    - Multiplayer.it were able to gain some more information on the interface for Company of Heroes 2. It's very similar to the one utilized in the original COH. From left to right: the minimap, the resources (that for now are exactly the same), a live animation image of the unit you have selected, the units panel and the panel to select special abilities and control abilities (movement, attack).

    http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/portals.php?show=news&news_id=893286

    Prisca on
  • SquatfurdSquatfurd 9000 feetRegistered User regular
    just to reiterate what everyone has said, i'm excited to the extreme! while i don't play much COH these days, i watch a lot of casts. as previously pointed out, it's just the right speed for a great viewing experience. go to the propaganda casts on youtube to get your fix, the guy does daily casts and knows what the hell he's talking about. i really miss harlequin casts, but this is pretty damn good.

    it's not nearly as hilarious, but really informative. i've learned half of the German that i know from that damn guy.

    can't wait to deliver some cossack fury to those krauts, and vise versa!

    League of Legends: DingusSquatfurd
    B.net: Squatfurd#1814
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I'm wondering just how well the whole "keep your guys running or they freeze to death" aspect of it will work, but it's possible to do well, I'm sure.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • SquatfurdSquatfurd 9000 feetRegistered User regular
    i think it would help develop good play, if done properly as you say. only noobs have any units sitting around for an extended period of time in COH. if those units die when they aren't moved... well shit, you better work on your multitasking and key binging management son.

    League of Legends: DingusSquatfurd
    B.net: Squatfurd#1814
  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Q&A session transcript with Relic during GamesCom 2012:
    • How will Russian units gain experience?
    In order to distribute experience more effectively all units will gain experience by inflicting and receiving damage instead of only kills. The amount of experience needed to level up depends on the initial build cost the unit.

    •Will there be a spectator mode ?
    We’re very interested in this feature, but there is still a lot of work to do to make sure Company of Heroes 2 meets Relic’s high standards for quality. I can’t make any promises, but we’ll see what we can do.

    • What has been the greatest challenge in development so far?
    The original Company of Heroes was a very complex game with cutting edge graphics, destructible environments and highly detailed, historically accurate units. In making Company of Heroes 2 we had to take all of those features to the next level while also giving players something new. I believe we’ve accomplished this by setting the game in the Eastern Front and adding features like ColdTech and TrueSight to truly immerse players in the experience.

    • Will the russian faction play a lot like the american faction since the wehrmacht won't change that much?
    The Americans did supply the Russians with equipment, so you might see some similar vehicles and weapons. The Russians were a very different army however, with a large number of conscripted soldiers and only a limited number of weapons. We wanted to reflect this in their play style where Russian infantry units have more soldiers, allowing them to absorb more damage. The Russian T-70 and T-34 tanks are also lighter and more maneuverable that their German counterparts.

    • I heard that only engineers will be able to light a fire. Is that correct?
    Yes, engineers are the only squads that can build fire pits. This makes them invaluable when extreme cold weather conditions are encountered. We are doing a lot of playtesting though, so it may change.

    • Can you tell us about the German faction we will have to play with? Will they be Ostheer? Wehrmacht? Panzer Elite? Will the Germans have their own campaign in the game?
    In Company of Heroes 2 we’ll be focusing on telling the story of the Eastern Front with the Russian Army fighting off the invading Wehrmacht. This is a huge story to tell with some of the largest military confrontations in history.

    • Is unit control different to original CoH?
    No we want to keep the unit controls of Company of Heroes 2 as close as possible to the polished controls of the original. There will be some new controls, such as vaulting cover and vehicle reversing, but they should easily blend in with the existing controls.

    • Will COH2 have mod tools?
    Our community is very important to us and we are looking into requests like this, but I don’t have any details to report at this time.

    • How different will the new german army be?
    Visually the German army will receive a significant upgrade with highly detailed summer and winter uniforms. As for their play style they will be similar to the Wehrmacht from original CoH with some new units and abilities. Both Russian and German armies will get vaulting and will be able to capture abandoned vehicles from either side.

    • What is the reasoning behind the change to the resource system?
    We wanted to explore more dynamic battles where players can choose their own fuel and munitions points instead of fighting over the same preset points. We are currently playtesting a few alternatives for the resource system, so it may change before we ship.

    • Will squad leaders be made more distinctive in CoH 2? Or will still just be a guy with a slightly different weapon?
    Each squad in Company of Heroes 2 will have a high resolution summer and winter uniform. We currently aren’t planning on using squad leaders. If a squad member with a special weapon is killed the weapon will automatically move to a surviving squad member so they will remain effective in combat.

    • Could we imagine seeing a more functional version of the Wehrmacht officer for CoH 2?
    Officers will play a long term role in CoH2, but only when we’re really satisfied with the gameplay they offer. I can’t give any specific details now, but it’s something we’re interested in.

    • Will multiplayer be focused on one period like 1943-44 or will it be split up to cover several periods, like say 1941-42, 43, 44-45. For example?
    We’ll be discussing multiplayer details in a future update. I can tell you that Company of Heroes 2 is based in the period from 1941-1945.

    • Can ammo/fuel depots be captured by the enemy? And could they provide bonuses for units fighting near them?
    Ammo and fuel depots are automatically captured when the point they are on is captured. They can also be destroyed to deny their use to the enemy. Currently there aren’t any bonuses for units fighting near depots, but it’s something we’ve explored in the past. We want the resource system to be a well integrated with the armies and the map design.

    • Can we expect the return of some of the Wehrmacht Voice actors ? Like the guy who did the Stormtroopers and Officer. He was AWESOME !
    Due to logistics issues we weren’t able to get the same voice actors, but we’ve picked up a couple of actors of very solid caliber that players will instantly recognize from several major motion pictures. I asked our Senior Audio Designer David Renn to give us a few details about the speech recording:

    David Renn: The original game speech has a great balance of realism and humor, of contextual lines and ones purely for flavor. We are committed to maintaining the same great quality and tone that the original had, and improving on it wherever possible. One of the most noticeable additions is that of female units. Multiple Soviet units have male and female versions, a first for Company of Heroes.

    • Will there be a system to deal with wounded and frostbite victims (over and above the medic bunker in CoH1)?
    Currently the Russian HQ can be upgraded with a Healing Aura that will return wounded infantry to full strength. German Pioneers will be able to build bunkers that can be upgraded to Medic Stations that will heal German infantry.


    • CoH1 multiplayer lobbies are characterised by players who jump from lobby to lobby in an effort to find a game that will ensure an easy win to protect their stats - this often results in elongated wait times - will there be an improved system in place for multiplayer so that games can be started quickly and players precious about their win loss ratios will not be rewarded for game shopping?

    We’ll be discussing multiplayer details in a future update.

    • Will there be custom map / worldbuilder support in COH2?
    See my response about mod tools

    • Will the new Truesight system finally take heights into account or just objects like buildings, walls and so on?
    The Truesight system only takes objects like buildings, walls, trees and smoke into account. This allows players to effectively use tactics like flanking and ambushes. The system can handle terrain variations if we want, but we found that objects provided the most easily understood feedback for players. The default RTS camera sometimes makes it harder to judge the variety of terrain heights and slopes.

    • Will the game (I hope) keep the same amount of superb quality in sounds/voices as COH did?
    Our senior audio designer David Renn was able to answer this one for me:
    David Renn: In terms of sound effects, we have re-done nearly every aspect – from the wind in the trees to the sounds of destruction. The weapons have all been recorded live, and the vehicle audio has been greatly improved with added behaviors and depth.

    • My most important question: will there be an ANTICHEAT System?
    We’ll be discussing multiplayer details in a future update.

    • Will there be an auto-reinforce button like in DoW?
    This is a great feature. The designers are discussing it, but they haven’t decided yet.

    • -Will there be language choice (Soviets speaking Russian, and Germans, well, German)?
    We’ll have to see!

    • - How much research went into Uniforms in general ?
    I asked Senior Artist Ian Guise to answer this one:
    We tried to be accurate when possible. We researched uniforms quite extensively. We then chose uniforms that we found interesting and distinct from one another. We took some liberties to help sell unit ID and tweaked some of the colouring to help separate the two armies from one another.

    • Will there be model variations so we can avoid the clone army look ?
    Dave Cheong: To a certain degree. CoH2 will have randomized head variations but bodies will basically be consistent per unit type. It is a game after all and unit recognition (and distinction) is key. Some Soviet squads will also have a chance to randomly spawn a female squad member.

    • What are the strategies that will be employed to maintain the longevity of the game and retain audience attention? Will there be more expansions? Will balances be made frequently even well into a few years of the game's life?
    I can’t speak to our future plans, but I think Relic’s support of original CoH speaks for itself. We released two expansions (Opposing Fronts and Tales of Valor) along with many balance updates continuing for years after original CoH was released. I think Relic’s best strategy for CoH2 will be to continue listening to the community’s feedback and supporting them however we can.

    • Also, are there any plans for an official competitive league?
    Nothing I can talk about at this time.

    • How was the idea of TrueSight thought up, and who’s idea was it?
    Our Game Director Quinn Duffy has the answer for this question:
    I’ll take credit for True Sight – although we used to call it the lampshade system, because that’s how we visualized it working initially – an outer radius that would approximate your maximum sight radius and an inner radius where you could see everything (sort of simulating the ability for a unit to ‘hear’ another unit on the other side of a thin or porous object). We wanted to add a tactical layer to the game to ensure that players were able to benefit from flanking movement, or for setting up defenses, make scouting more important, and create a situation where map knowledge could benefit tactical gameplay.

    • Is suppression the same as it was in CoH?
    Suppression is a great feature that was introduced in original CoH. We’ll be continuing to use the same system in CoH2, but with Truesight it’s now possible to flank a heavy machine gun or block its line of sight with a smoke grenade.

    • Is the tactical map making a return?
    I don’t have any details on the tactical map yet, but it is being discussed by the design team.

    • Is there co-op support with the campaign?
    We’ll be discussing multiplayer details in a future update.

    • Will there be better tutorial's than what was in vCoH?

    The first few missions of the Eastern Front campaign will gradually reintroduce players to the mechanics of Company of Heroes. We’ll be doing a lot of play testing to ensure that novice and veteran CoH players are getting all of the information they need to play Company of Heroes 2. We’ll have a system where we can more readily react to issues that players are having and one that makes tutorials much more accessible.

    http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/company-of-heroes-2-discussion/topics/Answers-to-YOUR-questions-from-team-Relic

    Prisca on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Not sure what "limited number of weapons" means.

    By 1941 standards, the Red Army had a weapon selection as broad as that of the US Army, if not more so: semi-auto rifles, sub-machine guns, anti-tank rifles, various towed guns, and a huge diversity of support vehicles of varying effectiveness.

    Granted, many of these weapons were not fielded in large numbers until late war, but that was also true of the US Army (M1 rifles might have been common in '44, they were not in '41). What they're probably thinking of was the early shortage of ammunition early in the war (which would be a pain for them to implement I bet).

    Whatever. They're allowed to make a few mistakes.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    I would be very surprised is Relic's historical accuracy is much above Enemy at the Gates. The original Company of Heroes was basically Saving Private Ryan in video game form. They're all about cinematic excitement and painting in broad strokes rather than historical accuracy.

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    I really don't have a problem with that.

    I mean I've seen people complaining about there being Sherman Crocodiles in the game because apparently only a tiny number were ever used or something. Sod that, it's a cool unit, and it has a unique gameplay function.

    It's not aiming for historical accuracy, it's aiming for effect. And CoH did a really good job of it.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Yeah I mean I have zero problems with that either. It's a game where you recruit units by capturing fuel and munition points and you win the battle by capturing VPs. The realism is already completely broken. I don't give a shit if they don't account for the wide variety of infantry rifles manufactured by the Soviet war machine. If I want to care about any of that I'll go play Men of War or Red Orchestra or Close Combat or something. Company of Heroes is about different stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians have an officer that executes friendly units to give a buff or something (although I don't expect this to happen).

  • KadokenKadoken Wap it out Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Yeah I mean I have zero problems with that either. It's a game where you recruit units by capturing fuel and munition points and you win the battle by capturing VPs. The realism is already completely broken. I don't give a shit if they don't account for the wide variety of infantry rifles manufactured by the Soviet war machine. If I want to care about any of that I'll go play Men of War or Red Orchestra or Close Combat or something. Company of Heroes is about different stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians have an officer that executes friendly units to give a buff or something (although I don't expect this to happen).

    Well, Relic put that in for DoW 1 and 2 for Imperial Guard, and Eastern Front mod used to have that. They might

    Also please don't counter this statement, because I don't want to have THAT fucking argument again!

    Kadoken on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Company of Heroes 2 is now available for preorder on Steam and also potentially ruined, because if enough people preorder then you get, among other things:
    Company of Heroes 2 Commissar Chest*
    • In-Game Currency Gift to be Used Towards Purchasing Future Content
    • XP Boost
    • Unit Boost
    • Commander Archetype
    So unless all this shit is cosmetic like in Dawn of War II, I'm basically done with CoH 2. Slighty more info here but no answers to the most important questions.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    Man I really, really hope that's just cosmetic stuff.

  • CG FaggotryCG Faggotry Registered User regular
    Yep, I ain't shoutcastin' no CoH: Online type shit.

    bulbesssigfinal.jpg
  • CG FaggotryCG Faggotry Registered User regular
    Also, ouch! £40! That's Activision money!

    bulbesssigfinal.jpg
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    subedii wrote: »
    I really don't have a problem with that.

    I mean I've seen people complaining about there being Sherman Crocodiles in the game because apparently only a tiny number were ever used or something. Sod that, it's a cool unit, and it has a unique gameplay function.

    It's not aiming for historical accuracy, it's aiming for effect. And CoH did a really good job of it.

    I remember reading that the bergetiger repair and recovery vehicle was based on a rumor, apparently someone came across a single Tiger that had been rigged with a crane at the end of the war.

    that doesn't keep it from being totally awesome though

    iowa on
    you man the island and the cocaine and the elegant cars
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/iowa
    signature.png
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    So it seems our worrying is due to a possible false alarm! Community manager from THQ says this stuff has no in-game effect. The XP you earn levels up your profile which I guess means fuck all, and the unit boost has no effect in PvP (although what it actually is is still unknown).

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • ZxerolZxerol Registered User regular
    Well that's a relief. I would hate for the game to creep into F2P territory when, you know, it's not actually F2P.

  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    So it seems our worrying is due to a possible false alarm! Community manager from THQ says this stuff has no in-game effect. The XP you earn levels up your profile which I guess means fuck all, and the unit boost has no effect in PvP (although what it actually is is still unknown).

    That's good to know. I was incredibly disappointed with the preorder "incentives".

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Actually as someone on another forum pointed out to me, the specific words that he uses are that the unit boost won't provide "any competitive advantage." That is, unfortunately, possibly compatible (in Relic's mind) with unlockable alternative units like the T-17 or the Kangaroo Carrier from Tales of Valor, because technically those didn't provide a competitive advantage, just additional options. Now of course Relic couldn't balance its way out of a wet paper bag, so the T-17 and Kangaroo Carrier were massively overpowered, so we might be looking at a case where preordering gets you more powerful units.

    So again, still waiting on Relic to confirm that this game is not dead to me.

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    I just hope it's like the levelling up in DoW2. Your Warboss looks more shiny wiv moar teef, and your Scouts get cloaks (er, physical cloaks I mean) and stuff, but it doesn't make any actual gameplay difference.

  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    Andin DoW 2 the 'new' units from an expansion were free for all races (unlike DoW 1), so I'm rather hopeful.

  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    This post by a GR forumer is an excellent read:
    Clearly a lot of angst here in this forum regarding Relic's foray into DLC. I have some thoughts that maybe explain why they are doing what they are doing.

    I've been in the financial community for a long time and have a deep understanding of the economics of this industry. There is a reason THQ/Relic is attempting to do what they are planning to with COH2. First, the entire industry is moving towards online and F2P and THQ is just starting to follow this trend. The business model they had for the past 10 years just isn't working and they need radical change. You "old timers" like me that are used to PC games for $50 that come with unlimited free multiplayer forever and no DLC, are going to be in for a shock in the coming years. This model is broken. For the most part (not everything of course), the PC industry will move to F2P with persistent online connections. The days of just selling the "client" upfront are coming to an end for AAA PC games. Instead it will be about monetizing the "tail" via F2P. There might also be hybrid approaches where you sell both a client+F2P, but ultimately the model is changing and its changing quickly.

    A few points:
    1. First, the company THQ is near bankruptcy. THQ has $21M of cash left and depending on how their lineup does over the next 6-9 months, it will "make or break" them. THQ is expected to continue to burn through cash this year so its going to be down to wire if they make it or not.

    2. THQ has restructured significantly in the past two years. They are now down to 4 studios (Relic, Volition, Vigil, and Montreal) they used to have 11. They had to shut down all of their licensed game studios and kids studios and MMO studios. Vigil also probably next on the chopping block b/c Darksiders 2 hasn't been a hit and the future of a single player console game developer is bleak. That leaves Relic, Volition, and Montreal. I'll discuss each of these studios. Volition makes Saints Row. This is the main cash cow for THQ. Saints Row 3 comes out sometime next year. They need this game to be a hit or else its pretty much over for THQ. Without the cashflow from Saints Row, its literally lights out for THQ. As for Montreal, this studio hasn't made a game yet and is consuming cash. This is the studio headed up by the ex-Ubisoft creator of Assassins Creed. This is a 'Hail Mary' bet that he can create a blockbuster console game. THQ therefore needs cash in this interim period, to keep funding development. Which therefore leads us with Relic.

    3. Relic. Relic of course is primarily a RTS and PC focused studio. While in the past they have made high quality games, it hasn't really been a financial homerun like Volition. Relic also hasn't necessarily been a drag like the other studios that THQ shut down. The problem is that the market for AAA RTS PC games isn't that great. It's in effect a niche market. You might not lose your shirt, but the sales also won't save the company. In addition, the investors are also looking at the F2P business model and wondering why on God's earth isn't THQ deploying this model. Everyone knows how successful League of Legends has been. Estimates put LoL now generating upwards of $500M in revenue this year (this is a global sales figure where China is a large portion of this). Relic is viewed as a developer that can potentially also do something like what Riot Games has done with LoL. Of course a WW2 strategy RTS game is quite different than a DOTA clone, but the monetization elements of selling cosmetic F2P items is applicable. Why not try to take some of these elements and bring them into COH2? THQ needs to show investors that it too can operate a successful online game with F2P elements. THQ also in the short term need some upfront sales from COH2 to help them stay afloat. So on one hand they need the cash from selling a $50 game upfront, but they also need to show investors that there is a long-term recurring revenue stream from selling F2P items.

    4. Business model choice. The one criticism here that is valid is the one that compares what COH2 is trying to do vs. what LoL is doing. LoL is a true F2P game. It costs nothing to play the game and only if you want to buy certain heroes or cosmetic items does it cost you. COH2 is taking a hybrid approach. In fact, what COH2 is trying to do is closest to what Guild Wars 2 is doing. GW2 is selling the client for $60, but then the game is free thereafter (no monthly fee like WoW). However, GW2 is also selling F2P items like XP boosts and cosmetic items. I've spoken with NCSoft which is publishing the game and the item sales so far have been "very good" and exceeding their initial expectations. Relic here is trying to do the exact same thing. They want to sell you the 'client' for $60 and then also monetize the 'tail' with F2P items just like GW2. Is this double taxation? Yes. But, since THQ is in such terrible financial shape, they need the upfront cash from selling the game for $60 PLUS they need the recurring revenue stream from running a persistent online game that has F2P elements. If GW2 can do it, why not COH2? Even the mighty Starcraft 2 is thinking about going to F2P. After they sold the initial game there has been effectively ZERO revenues coming in. Activision isn't stupid and they see what other games are doing and that's why there is talk that even SC2 will likely add F2P elements to the game in the future. Sure they (game publishers) all want to double dip. Should they be criticized for this? Maybe, but changing economics of the game industry is forcing these decisions. Sometimes these decisions are made out of financial necessity and there is also now precedent of other games doing exactly this. This is going to be more of the norm than exception going forward.

    5. Does F2P kill game balance? Great question. I think just have to take Relic's word that they won't disrupt the PVP multiplayer balance with the F2P items.

    I'm not trying to say whether the decisions Relic is taking is right or wrong, but just explaining some of the potential motivations for their decisions. Bottom line here is that Relic is a business and they need a sustainable business model to support them going forward. The business model that many of us were used to in the past, just doesn't apply anymore in this new age of F2P, piracy, and increased platform competition. Relic/THQ needs to adapt or they won't be around any more.

    http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=902144&view=findpost&p=9316015

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Yeah that's a lot of words that explain exactly why CoH 2 is potentially going to be a piece of shit.

    TychoCelchuuu on
    Prisca
  • pedro0930pedro0930 Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I am a bit disappointed that THQ decided to come out with this erm...bold pre-order offer without releasing game related information (that people can actually get excited about) such as all these multiplayers details that they are not ready to talk about yet. The game isn't coming out in at least 6 months though, so we shall see....

    pedro0930 on
  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    In regards to gameplay, GR's Tommy has provided a fascinating write-up about what to expect in CoH2.
    Let me start by saying this. Quinn and Bobby (Relic and THQ) know what will make a good game. They know what will make a bad game. To put this in perspective, they know that things like observer mode, support for streamers and casters, anti-cheat and strong balance will create a good game. They also know that pay-to-win, frozen-rivers-splitting-the-map-in-half and OF style blobs ignoring cutoffs will make a bad game. Virtually all concerns we had going into Eurogamer were alleviated by the time we left.
    Random fact time! (various stuff that I don't think have already been covered but I don't need a whole paragraph to explain)

    -T34's have the ability to 'Ram' enemy tanks. This will become available when the tank loses its main gun- it gains the ability to charge an enemy vehicle and upon crashing into it, potentially cause a critical.
    - Criticals on vehicles have been expanded. It wasn't always clear what the affects were, but criticals included: Destroyed Main Gun, Damaged Engine, Destroyed Engine, Damaged Driver, Crew Stunned, Vision Blocked and Buttoned.
    - Grenades are a big part of CoH2. Almost all regular infantry units have access to some form of grenade, ranging from molotovs to potato mashers, to bundle grenades and AT nades.
    -The ability to button tanks is returning with the Soviet Guards. They have a weapons package comprised of 2 light MG42 type units which allows you to button enemy vehicles. In the Moscow level (which is now old) it worked quite similarly to British button- however Quinn assured me it's been changed to be less powerful in the newest version.
    - Units come from off map rather than out of 'factory' style buildings. The Russian buildings are much like trenches in the ground and unless they get totally reskinned, I'm not forseeing units being produces and walking out of actual buildings.
    - However, there are provisions being put in to make sure you can't just plant a tank on a spawn point to block unit spawns.
    - Outline of current (or from our version) Soviet tech tree: T0: Engies, Conscripts; T2: Snipers and a recon vehicle unit we weren't able to build; T3: Mortar, Haltracks and M70 Light Tank. -The Light Tank reminded me of the Tetrach. T4: T34 and T(something) heavy tank (was able to take a P4 easily).
    - Outline of current (or from our version) German tech tree (only from what I could see was 'buildable' according to the base building descriptions: T0: Pioneers and 'battle phase' escalation; other units: mortar, grenadiers, panzer grenadiers, Armored Car type unit, Panzer IV's, Sturmpanzers, Bruumbar
    - The 'Oohrah!' ability for Conscripts was only available once the T1 building was constructed. It allowed the squad to sprint (not fire up, sprint) which increases suppression resistance but does not allow them to break suppression. It also increases their accuracy.
    - Snipers are a two man team who cannot actively cloak while moving and do not suffer from the cold. Snipers cannot be used as an A-move kill unit.
    - Units move slower in thick snow. This also applies to retreat paths.
    - There will be no fire up abilities in CoH2.
    - Tanks slide on ice. You can powerslide tanks.
    - Democharges can be placed anywhere.
    - Buildings that you light on fire will stay burning for a period even after you stop attacking it.
    - All weapons are droppable (not things like rifles but all major weapons). This includes flamethrowers, and yes, you can get double flamer engineers. However, the drop rate is lower.

    A number of you asked about multiplayer features. I don't know a whole lot about it honestly, but here are the salient facts from what I am allowed to tell you.

    -Steam will allow them to potentially patch faster and more regularly.
    -They want the beta to allow for advanced balance and design tweaking.
    -Anti cheat will be covered.
    -They are aware of the demand for observer mode and rewinding on replays.
    -They are aware of the potential advantages of moddability and custom maps.
    - CoH2 will not be pay to win. However: the business model of micro transactions is necessary for THQ/Relic because it allows them to keep patching and supporting the game. With a business model where you buy the game once and never pay for anything again, each patch takes a chunk out of initial profits; not to mention server hosting, anti cheat and so on. Eventually you cannot afford to continue support for the game.

    http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=903194

    Prisca on
  • stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    After seeing the write up about the THQ business model I am concerned, concerned yet hopeful. The sad fact is, over time THQ has squandered a powerful position and seems to lack the vision to survive. I hope they do, if only so RELIC can survive, and I hope to have the funds to purchase COH II, but I do share concerns regarding the f2p model, and will be watching developments with caution.

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    CoH2 will not be pay to win. However: the business model of micro transactions is necessary for THQ/Relic because it allows them to keep patching and supporting the game. With a business model where you buy the game once and never pay for anything again, each patch takes a chunk out of initial profits; not to mention server hosting, anti cheat and so on. Eventually you cannot afford to continue support for the game.

    On the one hand, this makes sense and as long as they don't forget that it's not F2P and people already paid $60 to begin with.

    On the other, they were also trying to sell us some skin packs for $7.50 for DOW2. I don't disagree with skin packs but that price is crazy.


    Oh God...

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  • KadokenKadoken Wap it out Registered User regular
    Seriously with that everyone switching to F2P stuff.

    If any microtransactions ruin any sort of experience for CoH2, I won't even try it and switch to the Men of War series or something else.

    I wouldn't be mad if they made it F2P from beginning. What was that game they did that with? Oh yeah, Company of Heroes Online. Resurrect that if you want to do this kind of thing.

  • TPSouTPSou Registered User regular
    I played through a mission on CoH2 on Saturday at Eurogamer Expo, so if anyone has any questions I could try and answer (although I've barely played the first one).

    I honestly just played it to get into the beta (you got a code for playing) but was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Snow definitely affects nearly everything, at one point I had routed an enemy unit and as they ran, they hit a snow drift, causing them to slow to a crawl, this gave me enough time to throw a grenade in amongst them and finish them off. Buildings seem to catch on fire realistically and everyone is less accurate than I remember in CoH so firefights seem a little more protracted and tense. I managed to win the mission but with all of my units sustaining heavy losses. It felt like a realy war story, and much more effective than if I had just steamrolled my way through.

  • SepahSepah Registered User regular
    I enjoyed Company of Heroes: Online. It was super fun, even with all the crazy units and boosts and upgrades.

    I think it might have even done all right, if their pricing for stuff wasn't so crazy high and their marketing had been bigger. The matchmaking was pretty good, the unit balance between the factions was quite decent, since CoH:O seemed to galvanize some actual support and patches for the game, and the special unit abilities added some interesting dynamics.

    Definitely gonna preorder this for the beta. The only thing I am somewhat iffy on from my reading about the game is the cold weather mechanic, but I'll adopt a 'wait and try it out for my own damn self before I judge it' approach.

    Minerva_SC wrote:
    I don't think I've ever raged as hard as I just did. The amount of stupidity was so intense I couldn't eben think of words venomous enough to insult my team mates. I was literally choking on my own rage. I can only hope they all live in the same city and die in a tragic bus accident today, or tommorow. I'll pray to whatever dark god I have to.

    ah yes another night of LoL.
  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    CoH2 is now one of many THQ games to be delayed until late next year.
    “We are also inspired by the potential for Metro: Last Light and Company of Heroes 2. I believe Metro: Last Light is a title that should set standards for visuals with its stunning atmosphere, unique location and cutting-edge style. Company of Heroes was one of the highest rated RTS titles in history, and Relic insists that the sequel live up to its pedigree. Giving both of these titles time to reach their full potential is the right thing to do for the products.

    “I firmly believe releasing our fourth quarter titles without extra time for polish in the current environment would lead to underperformance that could in turn lead to future additional capital shortfalls. But extending development schedules in order to make the best possible titles also has financial implications. Yet there can be no doubt which path has the greatest chance of leading to the long-term success of the company. We must follow the course that generates the highest quality games, and will establish THQ as a mark of quality for the consumer," concluded Rubin.

    “Clearly, THQ faces a number of opportunities and challenges,” added Brian Farrell, THQ’s Chairman and CEO. “I am confident about the opportunities that lie in our robust slate of games and in our studios. But we also face challenges operating with limited capital resources in the highly competitive market for games, and we are working diligently to resolve those challenges.”
    http://investor.thq.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=96376&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1754428&highlight=

    Prisca on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    How does THQ even have the money to keep these things in development? I was worried they were all going to be rushed out in an unfinished state so this is better but also weird.

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    How does THQ even have the money to keep these things in development? I was worried they were all going to be rushed out in an unfinished state so this is better but also weird.

    No clue, but their stock price dropped almost 50% today, things are looking rather dire.....

    I do think a lot of you are chicken little-ing about Free To Play and buying of items, there's been enough development in that area by other companies, that I suspect COH2 won't really be hurting because of it, if games like Dota2 are any indicator, you can make a killing off of purely cosmetic items. I'd be far more worried about budget issues causing them to either release early, or significantly cut out QoL stuff or major features from the core game. (Which of course they'll then add back in and charge for...)

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Why is this game so expensive? The complete edition thing, I mean.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | 3DS: 0130-2805-2850
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    THQ needs dolla dolla bills, yo.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Well, they're making it harder for me to send them them bills.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | 3DS: 0130-2805-2850
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  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    THQ continues to remain in dire financial straits and it appears that the CoH IP already has EA as an interested buyer.


    So I've been asking around today, there are at least 4 interested parties in Saints Row, 1 interested party in Darksiders and 1 interested party in Company of Heroes.

    Our guy says the banks will be able to recover around $40m from asset sales and a further $10m from the sale of offices, equipment and leases.

    Even though THQ are done for, their major IPs are going to survive as will a couple of the studios.

    If anyone has questions about the future of other IPs I can ask our guy who is advising one of the interested parties as to what the prospects are.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    I'm going to bet:

    Saints Row: Warner, Square Enix, EA, and Microsoft
    Darksiders: Warner
    Company of Heroes: EA (feel free to stone me, but they're one of the only publishers who is acquisitive and also shows interest in getting back in the strategy business)

    SR: Yes, no, yes, no.
    Darksiders: No.
    Company of Heroes: Yes.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499340&page=6

    Prisca on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    I wouldn't mind EA grabbing the CoH franchise. Red Alert 3 was handled quite well although it never caught on, since I guess the zeitgeist has moved past that kind of game, at least for now. They could hire the people who actually know how to make it to make CoH.

    TychoCelchuuu on
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