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Okami director disappointed: TP vs. WW-- Fight!

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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    He has the right to criticize and I tend to agree with him on the art style. However, I do think it's a bit bold to say publically given his game may have a great artstyle, but lacks gameplay. I personally would say...

    Art Style:
    WW > Okami > TP

    However...Gameplay:
    TP > WW > Okami

    Okami looks really nice, but just ends up feeling limited to me - limited in battles, limited by a weak storyline, and especially limited trying to use the celetrial brush with the analog stick. I couldn't draw well with it in magic pengel either - the dual shock just isn't meant to be used that way to me.

    Lindsay Lohan on
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Okami director is being kind of a dick. I was dissapointed in TP too, but not for its visual style. Zelda was never about its visuals and shouldn't be the focus in future games in my opinion.

    Chen on
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    MiserableMirthMiserableMirth Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I loved WW art direction and style, but I hated their Link character design. Seeing as he and his giant head are the one thing you have to look at the whole game, it left me bitter.

    I agree on the notion that WW + TP would be awesome.

    MiserableMirth on
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    Dominic DragonDominic Dragon Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    TP does have some ugly parts, but I liked how most of the game looked. The Zoras and Gorons looked awesome in TP. My favorite touch was how the lighting looked when it was sunset. I liked how the sunset colored Link's sword. One last thing, I REALLY liked how Link could run and slash and how cool it looked. Somehow something trivial like that seems so cool to me. Since the thread is about Okami too, is it true there is a lot of collecting in Okami? I've never played it, and I hope there isn't when I rent it.

    Dominic Dragon on
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    mr_ekimmr_ekim Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think his answer was fair, and as many people already pointed out, there is a timeless quality to WW's art which placed a bigger emphasis on communicating emotional expressions to the player.

    However, I wished the followup question to him would have been "So, will Capcom release a Wii version of Okami?" (Yes, I know he no longer works at Capcom, but it's still a fair question)

    mr_ekim on
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    thorpethorpe Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The landscapes in TP were absolutely fucking amazing. That field north of Kakariko and the Gerudo Desert were spectacular.

    thorpe on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I thought Twilight Princess was pretty fucking gorgeous at times.

    Elendil on
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    KiwistrikeKiwistrike Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    haha... okami's "style" is nothing more than a kid going wild the first time he finds the "filters" menu in photoshop.

    If you want to see a cool reworking of japanese mythology, look at okami.

    Kiwistrike on
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    bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Elendil wrote: »
    I thought Twilight Princess was pretty fucking gorgeous at times.

    Seriously. I consider it to be the best looking Xbox, PS2, or Gamecube game.

    bruin on
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    ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Kiwistrike wrote: »
    haha... okami's "style" is nothing more than a kid going wild the first time he finds the "filters" menu in photoshop.

    If you want to see a cool reworking of japanese mythology, look at okami.

    HUH?

    ArugulaZ on
    JR

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    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Okami's visual attractiveness is much less about the graphics filter and much more about the actual locations and designs.
    Silly people.

    Xagarath on
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    ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I just don't understand the sentence. "Okami sucks! If you really want a great game, look at Okami!"

    SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 10

    ArugulaZ on
    JR

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    HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I thought TPs biggest mistake was going for a realistic world and Link but having all the other character cartoony silly looking people.

    I say for the next zelda go cel shaded but use the OOT art

    HyperAquaBlast on
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    Neo RasaNeo Rasa Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This is reminding me of when Chromehounds stopped clicking with the boards.

    Okay everyone, TP looks like shit is where it's at now.

    Neo Rasa on
    "You know how Batman hangs people over the edge of buildings and gets them to spill information. That's Neo Rasa's way of it, but instead of information, he just likes to see people suffer." ~Senor Fish
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    FirebrandFirebrand Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I loved WW art direction and style, but I hated their Link character design. Seeing as he and his giant head are the one thing you have to look at the whole game, it left me bitter.

    Thing is, if you look at the artwork outside of the game, Link looks a lot nicer, they didn't quite bring the same look into the game. Other characters like Ganondorf and Valoo looked great though.

    Worst in WW would have to be Zelda (zomg spoiler), she reminded me of these guys.

    Firebrand on
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    EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    To be honest I find TP to be a beautiful game. I don't care if it's "artsy" or not, it's still got a style.

    Enig on
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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Okami director needs to get off his high horse.

    I was so dissapointed by Okami its not even funny. You make a zelda clone and take out exploration and remotely challenging puzzles. Then you take the easy combat of zelda and make it EVEN EASIER. then you take the hand holding of the first three dungeons of a zelda game and extend it over the entirety of your game.

    I agree that Okami's graphics were pretty but there wasn't even one location as striking as WW's forsaken fortress or Hyrule Castle. Shit, TP's fishing hole was a nicer area than the whole of Okami.

    DodgeBlan on
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Okami's graphics were certainly interesting but they were way too abstract for me. Maybe I would like the style more if it wasn't restricted by the PS2's limited power. But all the thick black lines just weren't very visually appealing to me. I think TP looked better and I think WW looked a whole lot better.

    Zek on
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    DangerousDangerous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    I loved the art in Okami heaps and piles more then Zelda. Zelda was merely trying to be realistic while Okami was actually going for a style. A style that felt... edible if that makes any sense.

    Too bad the would-be rapist cricket dude made me quit in disgust. I will go back to it tho; THIS I SWEARS.

    Realism is a boring style.

    Fixed ho ho

    Most of the crap that is called realistic isn't realistic at all.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Millet_Gleaners.jpg
    Call this boring, and I will cut you.

    Sorry for the off-topic, but I had an art teacher who said that he could ruin that painting for anyone with one sentence.
    "On your marks, get set...Go!"

    Back on topic, like most people I tend to agree with him. I'm not big on zelda-esque adventure games, but the art style of Okami spoke to me so much I had to pick it up. I have yet to play the new zelda myself, but from what I've seen the visual style didn't appeal to me.
    haha... okami's "style" is nothing more than a kid going wild the first time he finds the "filters" menu in photoshop.

    If you want to see a cool reworking of japanese mythology, look at okami.

    I seriously hope my sarcasm detector's broken here. Other wise wow...just no.

    Dangerous on
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    ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Enig wrote: »
    To be honest I find TP to be a beautiful game. I don't care if it's "artsy" or not, it's still got a style.

    The shadow world reminds me of ICO or Shadow of the Colossus. Am I alone on this?

    ArugulaZ on
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I hated the way Okami's story turned out.
    Starts off as Old World mythology, does a 180 and ends in a fucking spaceship fighting aliens. Where have I heard this before...?

    Cantido on
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    mekman 2mekman 2 a goober Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I prefer TP's style over WW (this time) because I enjoy the sepia toned gritty look which was kinda like the Lord of the Rings (which was TP's direct visual inspiration). It’s no RE4, but it sure beat having to wonder what a live action Zelda movie would look like and then having one made by Hollywood and then having rip out my eyes while watching and crying as Link and Zelda are brought to Earth (or the present) and teaming up with two annoying young tag'a'longs all the while the heroes are getting decked out in shades and consume mass quantities of (product placement), then going up a goofy flamboyant Gannondorf who would by the end of the film would “spaz-out” into a CG slimy pig rubbery thingy (ala SMB movie)....

    .. No I much prefer this style.

    mekman 2 on
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    BlackDog85BlackDog85 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I like TP's style.

    Like it's already been said: when OoT was still my golden standard for, well, everything in life, I often associated it's look with what I'd figure a LotR world would look like, a nice mixing of the realistic and the fantastic. Same when I'd read classic epic poems and whatnot, which is kind of what Zelda is supposed to feel like.

    To me, TP is what OoT would've looked like if it could've supported it, and I'm fine with that. The character models are mostly very good, the environments are cool, etc. It's not perfect, but I have very few complaints.

    BlackDog85 on
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    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I loved WW art direction and style, but I hated their Link character design.
    Amen. The WW world was stylish and involving. Link was neither - he was just a poor Master Sword wielding freak stranded in a beautiful land.

    JihadJesus on
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    BaronVonSnakPakBaronVonSnakPak Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i wasnt a fan of TP's graphics at all, but only because i dont think they even tried to optimise it for the wii. muddled colors, jaggies everywhere, very low polys on practically every model...

    i was just really let down by the final product.

    BaronVonSnakPak on
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    RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Okami's director disappointed in the newest Zelda? Oh shit, whatever will he copy now?

    RidleySaria on
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    DekuStickDekuStick Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    I loved WW art direction and style, but I hated their Link character design.
    Amen. The WW world was stylish and involving. Link was neither - he was just a poor Master Sword wielding freak stranded in a beautiful land.

    :( He was my favourite Link to date. My only problem with him was that he was too short to hold the master sword from clipping into the ground. I hate that so much.

    DekuStick on
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    Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak is it because you were insulted when I insulted your hair?Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I've been contented with the artistic style of any of the 3D Zelda's up to date. Good job, Nintendo.

    Alfred J. Kwak on
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    Vangu VegroVangu Vegro Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Ah, this again. I'll keep it as brief as possible:

    WW=Okami>>>>>>>>>Chinese water torture>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TP.

    (Style-wise, can't comment on the gameplay except for WW))

    Applause, Kamiya-san.

    Vangu Vegro on
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    ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, I'm not really grooving with Twilight Princess either. I think it has a lot to do with the Wii control... it just doesn't feel right for the game, and adds nothing but confusion to the experience.

    ArugulaZ on
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    elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ArugulaZ wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm not really grooving with Twilight Princess either. I think it has a lot to do with the Wii control... it just doesn't feel right for the game, and adds nothing but confusion to the experience.

    It's nice to see that someone is (intentionally or not) derailing this thread.

    elkatas on
    Hypnotically inclined.
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    elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i wasnt a fan of TP's graphics at all, but only because i dont think they even tried to optimise it for the wii. muddled colors, jaggies everywhere, very low polys on practically every model...

    Of course they didn't. Nintendo specifically said many times that there wouldn't be differecence graphics wise (with only exception being Wii version's WS support). But very low polys? I think that that models were quite good*, but textures suffered from Cube's compression.

    elkatas on
    Hypnotically inclined.
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    ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    elkatas wrote: »
    ArugulaZ wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm not really grooving with Twilight Princess either. I think it has a lot to do with the Wii control... it just doesn't feel right for the game, and adds nothing but confusion to the experience.

    It's nice to see that someone is (intentionally or not) derailing this thread.

    Well, for what it's worth, I'm not really blown away by the visuals either. The character models are fine, achieving just the right blend of realism and cartoonishness, but the playfields are very low-rent, with visible polygons and blurry, grimy textures.

    ArugulaZ on
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    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I wonder if there'd really be as much love for Twilight Princess's graphics if it wasn't a Zelda game.

    Xagarath on
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    RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I wonder if there'd really be as much hate for Twilight Princess if it wasn't a Zelda game.

    RidleySaria on
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    NofrikinfuNNofrikinfuN Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I wonder if there'd really be as much hate for Twilight Princess if it wasn't a Zelda game.

    It's a shame, really. I love the Zelda series, but for every game there's a group of naysayers claiming it's not as good as the last entry in the series.

    Also, the Okami director comes off as being a little full of himself. I guess he was a bigger fan of Wind Waker than Twilight Princess?

    NofrikinfuN on
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    JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    so was this part of his speech, or part of a Q&A session following the speech?

    Jinnigan on
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    mantidormantidor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think the only problem in TP graphically/style - wise was this huge but completely barren overworld, it was just absolutely boring and made too much of a contrast against the incredibly detailed characters and dungeons, scenes like the first fight with a darknut in that stained glass room was just amazing, but you then get in your horse and ride in this forever green plains. WW managed to pull that of much more nicely, even if the ocean was larger, it didn't feel as boring. Maybe just a tiny detail as some waves makes all the difference, I don't know, but I really didn't like TP overworld at all.

    And why are some people saying the animations in TP weren't great? they were superb, Midna alone blows away any character I've seen in any video game.

    mantidor on
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    GraviijaGraviija Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I wonder if there'd really be as much hate for Twilight Princess if it wasn't a Zelda game.
    I really don't think there's a lot of hate for TP...maybe for some of us elitest gamer types, but generally, everyone seems to love it.

    Graviija on
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    StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I don't know guys, but I find Okami charming. I know it is easy and the story isn't the greatest ever and maybe it's one giant fetch quest, but I really liked it. I guess the whole fetch quest thing is more about exploring the world and getting sidetracked with all the little stuff you can do. Besides, this game made me cry. Several times. Rarely anything elicits such a response in me, so to me this game is made of pure win. Take that as you will.

    I can't say anything about TP, since I never got to play it, but I don't doubt it's great. Kamiya might have really been dissapointed with the game's art style (on some screens Link to me looks like a retard, seriously, I'm not kidding), it wasn't exactly the best thing to say, but, you know, he's entitled to his opinion. Cut him some slack, Clover went down under and Nintendo has a huge Zelda fan-base. Let's call it even and move on.

    EDIT: Oh, damn it. The last two sentences (before the "Let's call it...") seem like a flame-bait. Please don't flame me. I just wanted to say it and I don't want to piss people off over that.

    Strifer on
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