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Mass Effect - 9.75 from Game Informer

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    randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    Iriah wrote: »
    Whether it's morality or reputation doesn't mean that much to me; it just seems too much like Kotor's system for comfort.
    BioWare is aiming to have the players make hard choices which not only affect their game immediately after making them, but also have repercussions throughout the universe. Muzyka is fond of describing Shepard as the "tip of the spear of humanity" in that Shepard is the first human Spectre operative, and hence is under constant scrutiny by the rest of universe as a model of human behavior. The doctors showed a brief glimpse of the "Paragon/Renegade" system, which are two separate meters that reflect the player's actions, and teased with, "We'll talk more about how that actually works later."
    From http://au.xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/mass-effect/771004p2.html

    Well, it's hard to tell from what they've said. Based on just having a separate Paragon and a Renegade meter, it could work exactly like how KOTOR did it, or it could be pretty different. It's impossible to tell from that.

    Sounds like your Paragon thing will be how good or evil you are and Renegade for how lawful or chaotic you are.

    Kind of like D&D alignment.

    randombattle on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    Iriah wrote: »
    Whether it's morality or reputation doesn't mean that much to me; it just seems too much like Kotor's system for comfort.
    BioWare is aiming to have the players make hard choices which not only affect their game immediately after making them, but also have repercussions throughout the universe. Muzyka is fond of describing Shepard as the "tip of the spear of humanity" in that Shepard is the first human Spectre operative, and hence is under constant scrutiny by the rest of universe as a model of human behavior. The doctors showed a brief glimpse of the "Paragon/Renegade" system, which are two separate meters that reflect the player's actions, and teased with, "We'll talk more about how that actually works later."
    From http://au.xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/mass-effect/771004p2.html

    Well, it's hard to tell from what they've said. Based on just having a separate Paragon and a Renegade meter, it could work exactly like how KOTOR did it, or it could be pretty different. It's impossible to tell from that.

    Sounds like your Paragon thing will be how good or evil you are and Renegade for how lawful or chaotic you are.

    Kind of like D&D alignment.

    with two axes they might as well just plot it on a circle. The 'Circle Of Badassery', if you will.

    darleysam on
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    AceedAceed Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I gained Paragon points for saving some people. Renegade points for threatening people and talking like a dick.

    So basically yeah, like I said, a LOT like KOTOR.

    Aceed on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aceed wrote: »
    I gained Paragon points for saving some people. Renegade points for threatening people and talking like a dick.

    So basically yeah, like I said, a LOT like KOTOR.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, I could very well see it working almost exactly like KOTOR because Bioware is, well, Bioware.

    However, I tend to be distrustful of people claiming to have been testers for a certain game and breaking their NDA to give some random internet people on an internet forum some inside scoop just because.

    Pancake on
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    AceedAceed Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Like the NDA matters on the internet.

    When the game comes out, just remember who told you ;)

    Aceed on
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    Dareth RamDareth Ram regular
    edited March 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    Aceed wrote: »
    However, I tend to be distrustful of people claiming to have been testers for a certain game and breaking their NDA to give some random internet people on an internet forum some inside scoop just because.
    The comments are so vague it's hardly an inside scoop, let alone a broken NDA.

    Being vague is how I tell my friends about my day without breaking my NDA.

    Dareth Ram on
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    God, I haven't been this excited for a game in quite a while.

    I just hope the combat works out great.

    Dublo7 on
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    LCDXXLCDXX A flask of wood and glass Terre Haute, INRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    Kevar in the 360arcadians forum has posted this:

    Microsoft announces Mass Effect will ship June 5th. Link

    LCDXX on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Brilliant. Thanks for the heads-up.

    Zetetic Elench on
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    LCDXX wrote: »
    Kevar in the 360arcadians forum has posted this:

    Microsoft announces Mass Effect will ship June 5th. Link

    Oh no. That's like 3 days before Summer classes start :(

    Vincent Grayson on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I can totally swing this as a birthday present. 11th June present on the 5th for the win!

    Zetetic Elench on
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    SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Damn, I really want this game despite my dislike for Biowares general approach to storytelling. I'm not sure if I should wait for that rumoured remake of the 360 before investing in a new console.

    Silpheed on
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    CokomonCokomon Our butts are worth fighting for! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Silpheed wrote: »
    Damn, I really want this game despite my dislike for Biowares general approach to storytelling. I'm not sure if I should wait for that rumoured remake of the 360 before investing in a new console.

    Uh, you mean the Elite? That comes out next month?

    Cokomon on
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    zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My kingdom for a ME PC version eventually.

    "Precursors" looks like a good substitute though, if ME never hits PC.

    zhen_rogue on
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    SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Cokomon wrote: »
    Silpheed wrote: »
    Damn, I really want this game despite my dislike for Biowares general approach to storytelling. I'm not sure if I should wait for that rumoured remake of the 360 before investing in a new console.

    Uh, you mean the Elite? That comes out next month?
    I thought it was supposed to be released in the end of the summer?

    Silpheed on
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    CokomonCokomon Our butts are worth fighting for! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Silpheed wrote: »
    Cokomon wrote: »
    Silpheed wrote: »
    Damn, I really want this game despite my dislike for Biowares general approach to storytelling. I'm not sure if I should wait for that rumoured remake of the 360 before investing in a new console.

    Uh, you mean the Elite? That comes out next month?
    I thought it was supposed to be released in the end of the summer?

    Xbox 360 Elite - April 29

    Also, June 5th, huh? That is freaking awesome that we finally have a date, although it sucks that it is one month later than May.

    Cokomon on
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    LCDXXLCDXX A flask of wood and glass Terre Haute, INRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    So I went to Bioware's official ME site and according to their forums, they won't confirm/deny Microsoft's press release and are basically saying "there's no date until we say there's a date".

    Weird. Anyway, Microsoft is definitely saying June 5th. And since they are the publisher, they should know. Right?

    LCDXX on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    So my fears that this game might just be a KOTOR clone without the lightsabers wasn't completely unfounded

    Something tells me I'm still going to love the shit out of this game. But still.. Seriously, Bioware? you need to move on and try something new for a change.

    VoodooV on
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    Dareth RamDareth Ram regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Something tells me I'm still going to love the shit out of this game. But still.. Seriously, Bioware? you need to move on and try something new for a change.
    No way. Keep doing it. Bring on the KOTOR-ness.

    Dareth Ram on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    June 5th? That's not April/May. :(

    Pancake on
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    ZhouZhou Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Dareth Ram wrote: »
    No way. Keep doing it. Bring on the KOTOR-ness.

    This is true.

    Also, VoodooV is a madman.

    Zhou on
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    bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    June 5th? That's not April/May. :(
    It's basically May.

    bruin on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    Pancake wrote: »
    June 5th? That's not April/May. :(
    It's basically May.

    But it's not quite May. It is the day before my birthday, though. Thank you, Bioware!

    Except this also isn't quite official. Bioware isn't saying anything other than it's not the release date until we say it's the release date and they haven't said June 5th is the release date.

    Pancake on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    my point though is not that KOTOR or Mass effect are bad games or anything. I just wish they'd make more of an effort to upgrade the basic gameplay engine. The only real difference between KOTOR I and II was prettier graphics, better upgradable items and an influence meter.

    To give you an example, one of my beefs with the KOTOR games is the limit of 3 characters in your party while the rest are cooling their heels on the Ebon Hawk. They can add all the NPCs they want. but what's the point if you can do well enough in the game by just focusing on a small core group of NPCs and ignore the rest?

    I'd like to see them upgrade the engine so that you can have the FULL entire party in on the action. In the case of KOTORII where most of the NPCs can be changed into Jedi. the possibility of having a much bigger lightsaber battle ala Attack of the Clones sounds awesome. It just seems silly to be a part of this huge Galaxy-wide quest, but most of your group are playing pazaak in the cargo hold

    I'd just like to see them make some bigger gameplay upgrades/changes. Because to me, KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect all seem like the same game, just different story/ different graphics, and maybe some other minor variations. Now yeah, Mass Effect supposedly has some more actiony elements with shooting guns and etc and yeah, I'll give them credit for that. whether or not that will be enough or if its just an overhyped gimmick, I don't know yet.

    most of all, I just wish they'd make the game a bit more challenging. the KOTOR games were way too ridiculously easy even on Hard. Jade Empire also wasn't too incredibly challenging either. I want them to also find some better way of making lightsaber more challenging other than just mashing down the Master Feat button

    VoodooV on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    You do realise Obsidian made KOTOR II, not Bioware, right? Just... you know, checking.

    Zetetic Elench on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    my point though is not that KOTOR or Mass effect are bad games or anything. I just wish they'd make more of an effort to upgrade the basic gameplay engine. The only real difference between KOTOR I and II was prettier graphics, better upgradable items and an influence meter.

    You seem to criticize KOTOR2 a lot here, but, you know, Bioware didn't work on it. At all. That was all Obsidian and they had one, yes, only one, year to complete an entire RPG roughly the same size as KOTOR. It's really no wonder it wasn't that big a change over KOTOR. I will agree that despite the gameplay changes, Jade Empire felt very similar, though.

    Hopefully Mass Effect will change this some. It's running on Unreal Engine 3, which, while not solely capable of only shooters, should be very good for the shooting aspect. I've heard that the game is still pretty easy, but the devs have mentioned being able to turn off the auto-aim, which should make it at least a little harder. The guy in here that said he was a tester said you can't turn it off, but I imagine it's a very easy thing to add a toggle into the options.

    Pancake on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    You do realise Obsidian made KOTOR II, not Bioware, right? Just... you know, checking.

    Yes, but I fail to see how that addresses any of my concerns. Obsidian didn't truly make KOTORII though, they took the engine Bioware used for KOTOR1 and made tweaks to it and put in a new story not?

    aside from the story, KOTOR1 and 2 are not very fundamentally different IMO. Please enlighten me if you feel differently.

    VoodooV on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    You do realise Obsidian made KOTOR II, not Bioware, right? Just... you know, checking.

    Yes, but I fail to see how that addresses any of my concerns. Obsidian didn't truly make KOTORII though, they took the engine Bioware used for KOTOR1 and made tweaks to it and put in a new story not?

    aside from the story, KOTOR1 and 2 are not very fundamentally different IMO. Please enlighten me if you feel differently.

    The point is that you are criticizing KOTOR2 for not being different enough from KOTOR and seem to be placing blame on Bioware when they didn't make it.

    Also, if a developer using a pre-existing engine didn't really make the end product, then very few games these days are actually made by anyone but the ones that made the engine. By this logic, Bioware did not truly make Mass Effect, Epic Games did.

    Pancake on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    True, I don't mean to be "pointing the finger" per se. If you really wanted to, you could blame Lucasarts, they are, after all, to blame for rushing KOTOR2 in its unfinished state.

    My goal is not to assign blame, but just to say. "Hey, I'm hopeful that Mass Effect will be awesome, but my skeptic-sense is tingling." And that if they really want to impress me, they need to make bigger changes to that engine other than just graphics and morality/influence meters

    VoodooV on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    shooter elements aside, I'm just fearful that Mass Effect will be more of the same.

    If the Mass Effect story blows me away, then I'll forgive it. If its merely "meh" then the sameness will be more glaring.

    VoodooV on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    True, I don't mean to be "pointing the finger" per se. If you really wanted to, you could blame Lucasarts, they are, after all, to blame for rushing KOTOR2 in its unfinished state.

    My goal is not to assign blame, but just to say. "Hey, I'm hopeful that Mass Effect will be awesome, but my skeptic-sense is tingling." And that if they really want to impress me, they need to make bigger changes to that engine other than just graphics and morality/influence meters

    It's not at all the same engine. The game is running on Unreal Engine 3, so you can be sure they're not just adding a morality/influence meter to the engine. Unless it's just Gears of War with some neat powers and an influence meter... And I can't say that would be entirely bad.

    Unless you meant that they're still using the engine they made for KOTOR, which they stopped using after Jade Empire.

    Pancake on
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    DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Pancake wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    True, I don't mean to be "pointing the finger" per se. If you really wanted to, you could blame Lucasarts, they are, after all, to blame for rushing KOTOR2 in its unfinished state.

    My goal is not to assign blame, but just to say. "Hey, I'm hopeful that Mass Effect will be awesome, but my skeptic-sense is tingling." And that if they really want to impress me, they need to make bigger changes to that engine other than just graphics and morality/influence meters

    It's not at all the same engine. The game is running on Unreal Engine 3, so you can be sure they're not just adding a morality/influence meter to the engine. Unless it's just Gears of War with some neat powers and an influence meter... And I can't say that would be entirely bad.

    Unless you meant that they're still using the engine they made for KOTOR, which they stopped using after Jade Empire.

    I'm 100% positive Mass Effect will be fun and engaging, just like all their other titles; but, like this person, I am concerned that it'll still feel just like KoTOR/Jade Empire with a new coat of paint. I'm fairly certain of it, actually. That's not going to stop me from enjoying it at all, and I'm hugely excited for it's release. It's just... they don't often change their formula much.

    Dashui on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Dashui wrote: »
    Pancake wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    True, I don't mean to be "pointing the finger" per se. If you really wanted to, you could blame Lucasarts, they are, after all, to blame for rushing KOTOR2 in its unfinished state.

    My goal is not to assign blame, but just to say. "Hey, I'm hopeful that Mass Effect will be awesome, but my skeptic-sense is tingling." And that if they really want to impress me, they need to make bigger changes to that engine other than just graphics and morality/influence meters

    It's not at all the same engine. The game is running on Unreal Engine 3, so you can be sure they're not just adding a morality/influence meter to the engine. Unless it's just Gears of War with some neat powers and an influence meter... And I can't say that would be entirely bad.

    Unless you meant that they're still using the engine they made for KOTOR, which they stopped using after Jade Empire.

    I'm 100% positive Mass Effect will be fun and engaging, just like all their other titles; but, like this person, I am concerned that it'll still feel just like KoTOR/Jade Empire with a new coat of paint. I'm fairly certain of it, actually. That's not going to stop me from enjoying it at all, and I'm hugely excited for it's release. It's just... they don't often change their formula much.

    It very well may be just like KotOR and Jade Empire. They are changing up the combat quite a bit, and it looks something like a tactical shooter in the way the videos show it played. But there is a lot more to western RPGs than the combat.

    But I can't see this as a bad thing, really. While Bioware's RPGs tend to be rather black and white and shallower in its approach to dialogue and characters (not to mention their storylines haven't changed much since the original Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2 and its expansion being the only game that didn't quite fit their usual mold as well as the others) than some other (mostly dead) developers, their shallower approach to these things somehow makes their games very replayable for me.

    KotOR2 and Planescape: Torment, to name a couple, are very well-written games and much deeper and there's more substance to them. They are very good games and I love them dearly. But I couldn't imagine trying to play through them again. There's something to be said for Bioware's approach to their games. It might not be as artistic or "deep," but it sure is engaging and replayable.

    Pancake on
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    Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, I agree. I think it's something to do with deep characters - the deeper-written the character, the more specific and unchanging they need to be. I couldn't imagine a character customisation section to Planescape:Torment, for example.

    Zetetic Elench on
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I don't mean to sound overly critical, because when push comes to shove. KOTORI and II, and Jade Empire have been amongst the best games I've _ever_ played. I just can't help but to notice the similarities between those games (despite the awesome-ness) and what I've seen of Mass Effect so far (sure it looks better, but it still has that same KOTOR/Jade Empire feel to it) and I'm just fearful that it will get stale.

    VoodooV on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I don't mean to sound overly critical, because when push comes to shove. KOTORI and II, and Jade Empire have been amongst the best games I've _ever_ played. I just can't help but to notice the similarities between those games (despite the awesome-ness) and what I've seen of Mass Effect so far (sure it looks better, but it still has that same KOTOR/Jade Empire feel to it) and I'm just fearful that it will get stale.

    As long as they don't go back to a Neverwinter Nights feel, I'm happy.

    Pancake on
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    SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I don't mean to sound overly critical, because when push comes to shove. KOTORI and II, and Jade Empire have been amongst the best games I've _ever_ played. I just can't help but to notice the similarities between those games (despite the awesome-ness) and what I've seen of Mass Effect so far (sure it looks better, but it still has that same KOTOR/Jade Empire feel to it) and I'm just fearful that it will get stale.
    That's my general complaint I have regarding Bioware, they do solid enjoyable games but a lot of themes do get recycled in all of their newer games.

    Silpheed on
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    deowolfdeowolf is allowed to do that. Traffic.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Odds of seeing a giant space hamster? I'm hoping 1:1.

    deowolf on
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    FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    deowolf wrote: »
    Odds of seeing a giant space hamster? I'm hoping 1:1.

    Oh god. I hadn't even considered that. Oh god.

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    MoridanMoridan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Silpheed wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I don't mean to sound overly critical, because when push comes to shove. KOTORI and II, and Jade Empire have been amongst the best games I've _ever_ played. I just can't help but to notice the similarities between those games (despite the awesome-ness) and what I've seen of Mass Effect so far (sure it looks better, but it still has that same KOTOR/Jade Empire feel to it) and I'm just fearful that it will get stale.
    That's my general complaint I have regarding Bioware, they do solid enjoyable games but a lot of themes do get recycled in all of their newer games.

    I don't see it. This game has tactical elements similar to a cross between Full Spectrum Warrior and GRAW. As well as a real physics engine. Those things alone separate it from KotOR and Jade.

    Moridan on
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