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Religion or Rejection of Religion
DouglasDanger
PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
Tube said this is an OK thread.
I have used these forums to work through my thoughts and philosophies on a variety of topics. I didn't really have any opinion on gays or trans people until a few years ago, and a combination of meeting people and talking with them, both in person and on these here forums, taught me that gay people and trans... folk? are just like any other people-- they can be be cool, they can be jerks, etc...
Anyway, I think I am an atheist, or at least agnostic. I was raised Protestant, I took church classes in high school and became a member of the United Methodist Church in my hometown. I went to church fairly frequently at different points in my life, but I never really saw or felt God or Jesus or anything. Most of the people at the different churches I attended were really nice people, but I just didn't get it somehow.
And I have been reading different things about the history of the Bible, and it sure seems like a bunch of guys got together and wrote a book to be used by kings to control people. I am not really familar with religion, aside from a couple sects of Protestant Christainity and a few Roman Catholic services I have attended, but I just don't think religion is for me.
I can't quite figure out my feelings on God or gods, but if they do exist, I have a really hard time believing they would give two shits about us or that they just created one planet with life on it. If God did just make one planet with just one sentient species on it, I have a hard time believing that God would allow so many genocides of its creations.
I'm not interested in becoming one of those aggressive atheists, I avoid conflict whenver possible. I'm just trying to figure some things out, and I find discussion useful and enlightening.
I have used these forums to work through my thoughts and philosophies on a variety of topics. I didn't really have any opinion on gays or trans people until a few years ago, and a combination of meeting people and talking with them, both in person and on these here forums, taught me that gay people and trans... folk? are just like any other people-- they can be be cool, they can be jerks, etc...
Anyway, I think I am an atheist, or at least agnostic. I was raised Protestant, I took church classes in high school and became a member of the United Methodist Church in my hometown. I went to church fairly frequently at different points in my life, but I never really saw or felt God or Jesus or anything. Most of the people at the different churches I attended were really nice people, but I just didn't get it somehow.
And I have been reading different things about the history of the Bible, and it sure seems like a bunch of guys got together and wrote a book to be used by kings to control people. I am not really familar with religion, aside from a couple sects of Protestant Christainity and a few Roman Catholic services I have attended, but I just don't think religion is for me.
I can't quite figure out my feelings on God or gods, but if they do exist, I have a really hard time believing they would give two shits about us or that they just created one planet with life on it. If God did just make one planet with just one sentient species on it, I have a hard time believing that God would allow so many genocides of its creations.
I'm not interested in becoming one of those aggressive atheists, I avoid conflict whenver possible. I'm just trying to figure some things out, and I find discussion useful and enlightening.
Sterica on
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My family is christian but it never really gets awkward.
i dunno what else to say?
just don't be a raging douchebag who shits on people for believing in something else
If I decide to believe in God, and God doesn't exist, World just keeps on turning
If I decide to believe in God, and God does exist, World just keeps on turning
If I decide to be an atheist, and God does exist, lets hope he has a sense of humour about it
I am a negative explicit atheist.
Don't see any evidence of a god, so I assume that no god figure exists, but I can't rule it out, either.
Agreed, lets go eat cake or something.
It works for some, and as a moral guide it can do some good. But it should not be used as a weapon like it so often is, like in the current opposition to gay marriage, for example. Oh, and don't forget those batshit-insane Wetsboro bastards.
So you might look at religion (any religion in fact) as a way of rationalizing your morality- it's natural for a social animal like humans to act morally (at least if you've been brought up to do it) but then you'll probably prefer to believe you'll get rewarded for it some day, even though that is likely not the case.
Some religious concepts on the other hand are completely illogical (reincarnation being my pet peeve) so I try to keep my beliefs as simple as possible.
Thanks for admitting this much. It's enormously infuriating when people have incredibly strong, hardline views and stances on "religion" when, upon closer examination, they have familiarity with only one or two broad spectrums of religion (since this is an English-speaking, primarily American/European forum, this is usually Christianity in its myriad forms). It's generally the religion they grew up around, and interacting with people of that faith in their family or in their daily lives forms the foundation of their opinion of religion as a whole.
There's nothing wrong with this when a person admits their knowledge is limited and the opinions they are expressing really only apply to the stuff they know about, which is what you did here and I appreciate that. When they use this limited life experience and knowledge as a jumping point to take harsh, condemning stances on all of religion and religious people, that's actually really insulting and irritating.
Religion is global and and varied as individual human culture. For example, a great deal of your expressed consternation in your initial post concerns theism, specifically the idea of a god or gods who cause, permit, compel, or allow things to happen to humanity and how the larger implications of that notion do not sit well with you. This is hardly an uncommon viewpoint, but the sort of questions it raises and the sort of problems you suggest really are only applicable to theistic religions, or religions where theism is considered an important and integral component of the faith itself. That doesn't really represent the rest of the world, it's not an issue outside of that framework.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism
Specifically the "apathetic agnosticism" definition
I just don't care
It affects my daily life by a factor of absolutely zero
what are you doing
damn randians
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
not sure if this applies here, but mayday doesn't always use the same definitions of terms as most other people on this forum
I'm really not trying to sound smug here either, like "oh I'm so completely above this debate I don't even have time for it"
Like if you have strong religious beliefs and they add meaning and purpose to your life and you're not a dick about it, that's a wonderful thing!
It's just not something I have any desire to get involved with any more
The whole point of free will is that humans do what they want. Can you imagine a God creating a world where everybody is allowed to do anything unless it's killing a large amount of people at once?
Wait, because something doesn't affect your life, or even your daily life, that's justification to not care?
I mean, I don't expect everyone to take a stand. I just feel you're missing out. Philosophical debate is a tremendous joy, and you seem almost proud to not be a part of it.
Well, there's the basic thing of "happens to think it's the truth". Happens sometimes.
Person looks at the evidence, thinks the existence of God or gods isn't on the table, only honest move is to go for atheism.
Think the alternative, then you work from that.
Lot of decent, intelligent people on both sides there. Also, lot of assholes and morons.
Really, bugs the hell out of me when people try to argue about benefits and drawbacks ignoring the central "so, is it true?" bit. Because that's what matters most from my point of view.
(Happen to fall on the believing side, for what little it's worth, but a lot of people I respect disagree. Way of the world.)
Why I fear the ocean.
I didn't
God did
I'm sure there are plenty of nuances that I'm missing but those two statements seem largely opposed to each other
A likely case. If you guys are not too tired of my bullshit, maybe we could start by defining "rational behaviour"?
and to further clarify: no, I'm in no way an objectivist, ugh! (we've had this discussion some time ago).
I try to advocate for religious equality/push toward secularism in state policy etc., but I really prefer to not fight about religion on an individual level. There's very little to be gained from fighting with individuals about their religion, and I don't think it helps atheists as a whole to do so.
Youtube is the worst.
is english his second language or something?
look there's only so many things a person can mean when they say "objectivism"
they can mean "Moral objectivism" in a generic sense, which will inevitably be expressed as some form of moral absolutism or deontological ethics framework where some things are just "right" and "wrong" without further metaphysical or universal reasoning as to why
or they can mean Objectivism in the Ayn Rand sense of the word
in which case
Organised religion can go suck a fuck, however.
My real father once burned a jehovah's witnesses bible right out in his yard.
define what you mean by "organized religion"
I made a second post to try to clarify
I like philosophical debate and bullshitting around on the topic of religion as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day I have plenty of things to actually worry about and "is there a god" is way down the list for me at this point
Like my dad
I've always had trouble reconciling any objective reality with free will. I don't believe in free will any more. But who can say? I'm having hard time even imagining evidence that would prove or disprove this "actor" that is not constrained by deterministic causality.
Not in the abortion sense, but the idea that human death is a tragedy and a big deal in the cosmic sense and life must be spared at all costs
Cause I've got theists and atheists on both sides of the aisle
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.