I got to play most of the evening after I came home from work (1830 EST). It was a blast! I got my Wizard up to Level 12, and the only real complaints I have are the following:
-They moved the chain-lightning type signature spell to level 15. That was why I wanted to play Wizard! I'll get there soon enough.
-I don't understand how the checkpoint system works. I'm in the middle of a quest, and I get an invite to join a friend's game. So I play until I reach a checkpoint and leave. Then a bunch of my progress is lost? Since I didn't get to a new page in the quest journal, I lose my progress. Since I can't flip back/forth through the quest journal, I have no idea what that entails.
-I've only gotten disconnected twice...once around 1900 EST and of course, the most recent one around 2300 EST. The first time, I logged back in and some of my items that I'd picked up just prior to the DC weren't the sweet magical ones I'd grabbed. They were just mundane Javelins and Shields. The second time, I had no issues, but my friend said that he lost a level from where he was. Since we can't get back on yet, there's no way of telling the severity of the loss...but I thought a principle benefit of always-online was that you don't really lose data?
Still, super awesome. Can't wait for tomorrow.
I *think* checkpoints are for deaths. When I died (stupid tree elites) I got sent to a checkpoint. If you're quitting, you want a waypoint.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
exactly, the day we just expect this shit to be broken day 1 is the day that as a people we are broken.
it should work, we should demand that it should work or else it will never work
You realize that complaining on a non-Blizzard site, to people who disagree with you, isn't really enacting the glorious revolution you seek to spark with your rhetoric.
ok i don't get posts like this, it has nothing to do with complaining or directing anything to blizzard. it's a discussion we're having about the state of the game, people are free to disagree, and try to convince others to their side, and do all the other normal things that happen in a conversation
Well...
"I'm unhappy"
and
"we should demand that Blizzard fix this"
are two different sentiments.
If you're just complaining, that's fine. But I took your "we should demand bla bla" statement to be meant to...incite some sort of action.
And it is your personal job to stand in the way of action? Do you work for Blizzard? Could you tell your bosses to fix this?
Calling people "entitled" for expecting the thing that they paid $60~$100 for to work properly is absurd. If this was freeware you might have a point, but Blizzard has just made a whole lot of money off of people who are completely unable to use what they spent the money for.
It's a bad launch. I mean, Blizzard knew this would happened and took a calculated risk. People will not give an isolated fuck a week from now about today unless we have a repeat of WoW's launch on our hands.
I certainly don't have any kind of pity or sympathy for Blizzard. This isn't worth creating a terrible fuss over, but I'm also not going to be creating excuses and defenses for a company that knew damn well that this was going to happen. They are screwing us today in order to make more cash in the long run.
And who is to blame them? It'll fucking work, so why do something for the sake of "niceness" when your game's quality will garner plenty of consumer goodwill in the long run?
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
This isn't an issue that is only attributed to MMO's. Most Popular Multiplayer games have issues on Day 1. This goes for RTS, FPS, MMO, Any Multiplayer game that is decently popular.
Dunno man. I seem to recall Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 to have pretty smooth launches.
LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3... you know the part about games being hosted by the players.
I appreciate that there's a difference between a chiefly client/server FPS and a hybrid peer-to-peer/client-server game like D3.
But please bear in mind the context of the conversation:
Bigity: This isn't an MMO, Blizzard should have its act together.
Delphinidaes: Non-MMOs (like FPSes and any MP game that's popular) have these problems, too.
jdarksun: Really? Because two of the most popular (BF3, ME3) had better Day 1 up time.
Then you come in with:
Jubal77: "LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3"
Dunno I had pretty major issues day one for BF3 and I certainly wasn't alone. I haven't played Mass Effect 3 so I cannot comment on the launch for that.
For me though I like to look at it like this: I go into it expecting the game to work Day 1, but if it doesn't I am never surprised.
Delphinidaes on
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That's pretty silly. Why shouldn't I expect a company that prides itself on their online games to do a smooth release of an online game?
Shouldn't we at least attempt to hold developers to a standard other than "Meh, maybe it'll work once enough interest has died off."
You can hold them to that standard all you want, and they can try and hold themselves to that standard as well. Then people log in on day one and the bugs, glitches, server loads, what have you, that they missed are brought forcibly to the forefront and they have to deal with them.
I mean realistically speaking it would be silly to assume they they did not try and simulate a launch and test it as much as possible. But when the real thing happens, things come up that are missed.
Such is life.
If I launched a project with the same up time that Diablo 3 has had, I'd be fired (and I'd deserve it, too). That's life.
These are not the actions of a developer that is on top of the situation:
00:13 - BlizzardCS: We are in the process of performing an emergency maintenance for #D3 servers in the Americas to resolve several issues
00:36 - BlizzardCS: Sorry for the bad link, D3 forums are also in maintenance. O.o The link was to a post announcing it. Updates as soon as I have them.
This is what struggling to gain control of a situation looks like.
Not if you worked for blizzard or any other MMO company to date actually. One thing to remember is that while D3 does have ongoing issues with the actual D3 servers all of the other servers are in a "shared" environment. Login servers and battle.net are not just D3 based and an increased load on these will cause problems unforeseen.
Clearly blizzard didn't expect people to be so entitled about using software they paid for.
Entitlement is a wonderful sentiment.
Hold it. I have to jump in here. It is not Entitlement to be upset that a single player game that you paid $60+ for is broken because Activision wants to sell us RMT items later down the line.
This is Blizzard. The fact that they couldn't even be assed to add a Login Queue puts this past the "welp it sucks" and dangerously close to "what the fuck were they thinking" territory.
It's entitement to expect that impossible technological feats be accomplished just because you want to play the game RIGHT NOW rather than wait a day.
I mean, unless you expected Blizzard to buy a server for every edition of the game they sold...
I think I'm done with this conversation, but I'll repeat what quite a few people have already pointed out.
It's BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT. The makers of World of Warcraft, the biggest MMORPG in history. There is no excuse for them to fuck this up this badly. Absolutely none.
Expecting a game to work when it comes out is not unrealistic expectations. They should have been prepared. They were not. Therefore they dropped the ball.
Clearly blizzard didn't expect people to be so entitled about using software they paid for.
Entitlement is a wonderful sentiment.
Hold it. I have to jump in here. It is not Entitlement to be upset that a single player game that you paid $60+ for is broken because Activision wants to sell us RMT items later down the line.
This is Blizzard. The fact that they couldn't even be assed to add a Login Queue puts this past the "welp it sucks" and dangerously close to "what the fuck were they thinking" territory.
It's entitement to expect that impossible technological feats be accomplished just because you want to play the game RIGHT NOW rather than wait a day.
I mean, unless you expected Blizzard to buy a server for every edition of the game they sold...
lol what?! It's not entitlement to expect a game you bought work. Do you think the hudreds of thousands of people who bought this game, who have on idea what IT is or how the internet work, understand why they can't play right now and are ok with it?
No, I do not expect them to understand.
Personally, though? I kind of find it a bit asinine for someone to be interested in online gaming, but not invest the time to learn anything about how it works.
The fact that there are people who care about the Diablo series, but honestly had no idea that D3 was being released, until they saw the ad on TV? I don't understand those people. I'd expect the sorts of people who want to play on release day to be the sorts of people who participate in gaming forums / gaming culture.
Clearly blizzard didn't expect people to be so entitled about using software they paid for.
Entitlement is a wonderful sentiment.
Hold it. I have to jump in here. It is not Entitlement to be upset that a single player game that you paid $60+ for is broken because Activision wants to sell us RMT items later down the line.
This is Blizzard. The fact that they couldn't even be assed to add a Login Queue puts this past the "welp it sucks" and dangerously close to "what the fuck were they thinking" territory.
It's entitement to expect that impossible technological feats be accomplished just because you want to play the game RIGHT NOW rather than wait a day.
I mean, unless you expected Blizzard to buy a server for every edition of the game they sold...
I think I'm done with this conversation, but I'll repeat what quite a few people have already pointed out.
It's BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT. The makers of World of Warcraft, the biggest MMORPG in history. There is no excuse for them to fuck this up this badly. Absolutely none.
Activision?
I kid, is joke
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
That's pretty silly. Why shouldn't I expect a company that prides itself on their online games to do a smooth release of an online game?
Shouldn't we at least attempt to hold developers to a standard other than "Meh, maybe it'll work once enough interest has died off."
You can hold them to that standard all you want, and they can try and hold themselves to that standard as well. Then people log in on day one and the bugs, glitches, server loads, what have you, that they missed are brought forcibly to the forefront and they have to deal with them.
I mean realistically speaking it would be silly to assume they they did not try and simulate a launch and test it as much as possible. But when the real thing happens, things come up that are missed.
Such is life.
If I launched a project with the same up time that Diablo 3 has had, I'd be fired (and I'd deserve it, too). That's life.
These are not the actions of a developer that is on top of the situation:
00:13 - BlizzardCS: We are in the process of performing an emergency maintenance for #D3 servers in the Americas to resolve several issues
00:36 - BlizzardCS: Sorry for the bad link, D3 forums are also in maintenance. O.o The link was to a post announcing it. Updates as soon as I have them.
This is what struggling to gain control of a situation looks like.
Not if you worked for blizzard or any other MMO company to date actually. One thing to remember is that while D3 does have ongoing issues with the actual D3 servers all of the other servers are in a "shared" environment. Login servers and battle.net are not just D3 based and an increased load on these will cause problems unforeseen.
actually to be fair the last 2 WoW expansions have had very smooth launches as did Starcraft 2 which had a heavy battle.net implementation. It's as '@Rorus Raz' said, it's a fucked launch and they knew this was going to happen and simply don't care because it won't matter long term
If someone has found the holy grail that lets you write bug free software and build fool proof server infrastructure, please let me know what it is.
They did their best to test and debug their systems before launch, but did not catch everything. Shit happens.
I'm pretty biased in Blizzard's favor due to being a programmer.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Is PvP a thing that people really cared about in Diablo?
A fair amount I'd say. Not me personally, but I know a few people that were bummed. Not enough to not order it mind you, more of a "Not in release? Ah well i'm sure it will be out soon enough"
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I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
As someone mentioned earlier today, they can have a solid online infrastructure for their expected average amount of traffic, and that not hold up on launch night.
Investing the $ to support launch traffic, and then have those servers sit around doing nothing after the first 2 weeks, is kinda silly.
Considering that the single player online requirements seem to exist manly to protect the auction house, which is a money maker for Blizzard, then yeah, I'd say it's reason to expect them to invest the money.
Or if the monetary investment isn't worth the profits from the auction house, then maybe make some different decisions.
The game was designed to be played online. The loot generation aspect of the game is server-side, as I understand it. When they thought about adding an offline mode, they realized it'd be too inconvenient / unproductive to take the loot generation part and build it into the offline game.
So they just went with online-only.
Which is fine by me.
That's cool that it's fine by you. I'm not telling you that YOU should be upset.
Maybe don't tell other people how to feel, though. Maybe people get to feel their own feelings, and not everybody has to feel yours.
I agree...mostly with your sentiment.
But if persons have unrealistic expectations, and have sadness as a result of that, do you think it problematic for persons to point out that their expectations are unrealistic?
Cause if they can shift to realistic expectations, then maybe they won't be sad and, instead, can be sort of amused by the situation.
I've found that being amused by server downtime is far healthier than getting pissed off about it.
I don't see a notice about server downtimes on my retail package. I just double-checked, to be perfectly fair to you. It says that I'm required to have an internet connection, and my internet connection is currently up and kicking (hence my ability to post here.)
There is nothing unrealistic about expecting a product to work.
As an aside -- if I was working on Path of Exile, I would be all over twitter right now with a "Come try Path of Exile, the Diablo-eque MMORPG that actually works" and a quick stress test / open beta for the next few days.
Also: Torchlight 2 needs to get released already.
Also2: Someone pointed out something important -- some day, Activision is going to close down these servers, and unless they relent and port the map generation et all to the client, well, no more Diablo 3. I can't imagine it will last as long as Diablo 2 with that in mind.
not being able to play because needing to be connected for stuff like the RMAH would make me pretty angry(well, really really angry because of how fucking stupid the RMAH is). I think I'll give it a few months before I think about picking this up.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Clearly blizzard didn't expect people to be so entitled about using software they paid for.
Entitlement is a wonderful sentiment.
Hold it. I have to jump in here. It is not Entitlement to be upset that a single player game that you paid $60+ for is broken because Activision wants to sell us RMT items later down the line.
This is Blizzard. The fact that they couldn't even be assed to add a Login Queue puts this past the "welp it sucks" and dangerously close to "what the fuck were they thinking" territory.
It's entitement to expect that impossible technological feats be accomplished just because you want to play the game RIGHT NOW rather than wait a day.
I mean, unless you expected Blizzard to buy a server for every edition of the game they sold...
lol what?! It's not entitlement to expect a game you bought work. Do you think the hudreds of thousands of people who bought this game, who have on idea what IT is or how the internet work, understand why they can't play right now and are ok with it?
No, I do not expect them to understand.
Personally, though? I kind of find it a bit asinine for someone to be interested in online gaming, but not invest the time to learn anything about how it works.
The fact that there are people who care about the Diablo series, but honestly had no idea that D3 was being released, until they saw the ad on TV? I don't understand those people. I'd expect the sorts of people who want to play on release day to be the sorts of people who participate in gaming forums / gaming culture.
uhhh then you expect wrong and you expect wrong by a huge amount. Look at day 1 sales for any AAA game, especially a Madden or a Call of Duty. Want to know something horrible? Most of the people who bought Diablo 3 today have never played 1 or 2 and were most likely not old enough to have
Is PvP a thing that people really cared about in Diablo?
I've always viewed the Diablo PVP fans the same way Hardcore fans are; they're in the minority (by every bit of info and anecdote I've seen) but those who are into it are vocal and passionate to an extreme.
Hell, I'll probably draw some ire here just for saying either was anything but the majority and the pinnacle of all D2 related gaming, but I'm not convinced either side is anything but a vocal minority.
Good folks, invested and passionate, but dear lord if you piss them off....
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Clearly blizzard didn't expect people to be so entitled about using software they paid for.
Entitlement is a wonderful sentiment.
Hold it. I have to jump in here. It is not Entitlement to be upset that a single player game that you paid $60+ for is broken because Activision wants to sell us RMT items later down the line.
This is Blizzard. The fact that they couldn't even be assed to add a Login Queue puts this past the "welp it sucks" and dangerously close to "what the fuck were they thinking" territory.
It's entitement to expect that impossible technological feats be accomplished just because you want to play the game RIGHT NOW rather than wait a day.
I mean, unless you expected Blizzard to buy a server for every edition of the game they sold...
I think I'm done with this conversation, but I'll repeat what quite a few people have already pointed out.
It's BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT. The makers of World of Warcraft, the biggest MMORPG in history. There is no excuse for them to fuck this up this badly. Absolutely none.
Uh, just because they run an MMO doesn't mean they've magically solved launch day load.
You act like MMOs have fixed this issue or something. They haven't. They've just accepted it's existence.
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
This isn't an issue that is only attributed to MMO's. Most Popular Multiplayer games have issues on Day 1. This goes for RTS, FPS, MMO, Any Multiplayer game that is decently popular.
Dunno man. I seem to recall Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 to have pretty smooth launches.
LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3... you know the part about games being hosted by the players.
I appreciate that there's a difference between a chiefly client/server FPS and a hybrid peer-to-peer/client-server game like D3.
But please bear in mind the context of the conversation:
Bigity: This isn't an MMO, Blizzard should have its act together.
Delphinidaes: Non-MMOs (like FPSes and any MP game that's popular) have these problems, too.
jdarksun: Really? Because two of the most popular (BF3, ME3) had better Day 1 up time.
Then you come in with:
Jubal77: "LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3"
Actually in between there I stated that this game is almost full MMO. It has all the elements and is not a hybrid p2p client server game. From everything I have seen it is a full client/server based game complete with functionality within it comparable to most MMOs. Just because there is not 100s of players in one area doesnt mean it takes all that less on the server side. TBH I doubt D3 takes much less server side than WoW does. Just alot less scale.
I'm not sure about that. Remember when the Game Creation Servers came down earlier? It stopped people from starting new games, but it didn't stop the people who were already playing. That strongly hints at a significant amount of peer-to-peer functionality.
It's a really interesting situation from a tech standpoint, and I am super curious to hear how they designed it.
Indeed we also saw that battle.net going down does not affect in game as well. I would imagine that there are dedicated servers for instance creation as well as other heavy processes like logins, item creation etc... You are then passed on to one of the "game" servers at this point. Another example that would also show that they have separate systems operating different aspects is that my achievements did not get committed do whatever houses the "state" database which could also be broken up into pieces as I still had my level and items after relogging in after the first server shutdown but I did not have the achievs.
Jubal77 on
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
This isn't an issue that is only attributed to MMO's. Most Popular Multiplayer games have issues on Day 1. This goes for RTS, FPS, MMO, Any Multiplayer game that is decently popular.
Dunno man. I seem to recall Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 to have pretty smooth launches.
LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3... you know the part about games being hosted by the players.
I appreciate that there's a difference between a chiefly client/server FPS and a hybrid peer-to-peer/client-server game like D3.
But please bear in mind the context of the conversation:
Bigity: This isn't an MMO, Blizzard should have its act together.
Delphinidaes: Non-MMOs (like FPSes and any MP game that's popular) have these problems, too.
jdarksun: Really? Because two of the most popular (BF3, ME3) had better Day 1 up time.
Then you come in with:
Jubal77: "LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3"
Actually in between there I stated that this game is almost full MMO. It has all the elements and is not a hybrid p2p client server game. From everything I have seen it is a full client/server based game complete with functionality within it comparable to most MMOs. Just because there is not 100s of players in one area doesnt mean it takes all that less on the server side. TBH I doubt D3 takes much less server side than WoW does. Just alot less scale.
I'm not sure about that. Remember when the Game Creation Servers came down earlier? It stopped people from starting new games, but it didn't stop the people who were already playing. That strongly hints at a significant amount of peer-to-peer functionality.
It's a really interesting situation from a tech standpoint, and I am super curious to hear how they designed it.
No it doesn't. This is a huge leap. Sometimes the world servers in WoW go down and people in instance servers are okay. Then you instantly crash when you try to exit the servers. It's not peer to peer. It's legitimately a different server. You cannot have any part of this game be peer to peer otherwise you're opening the game up to the hacks and dupes it's online only to begin with.
exactly, the day we just expect this shit to be broken day 1 is the day that as a people we are broken.
it should work, we should demand that it should work or else it will never work
You realize that complaining on a non-Blizzard site, to people who disagree with you, isn't really enacting the glorious revolution you seek to spark with your rhetoric.
ok i don't get posts like this, it has nothing to do with complaining or directing anything to blizzard. it's a discussion we're having about the state of the game, people are free to disagree, and try to convince others to their side, and do all the other normal things that happen in a conversation
Well...
"I'm unhappy"
and
"we should demand that Blizzard fix this"
are two different sentiments.
If you're just complaining, that's fine. But I took your "we should demand bla bla" statement to be meant to...incite some sort of action.
And it is your personal job to stand in the way of action? Do you work for Blizzard? Could you tell your bosses to fix this?
Calling people "entitled" for expecting the thing that they paid $60~$100 for to work properly is absurd. If this was freeware you might have a point, but Blizzard has just made a whole lot of money off of people who are completely unable to use what they spent the money for.
We live in a world in which things sometimes break.
Expecting things to not break shows a complete lack of understanding for the world in which we live.
If you bought an online-only game, without any consideration for the fact that, maybe, it would fuck up on release night? Then maybe you need to pause, and reconsider your world outlook.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I would like to point out when I lived in nz I got starcraft 2, installed it and played it for 6 hours strait on the day it came out. So saying blizzard can't get this right is a load of bullshit.
Also2: Someone pointed out something important -- some day, Activision is going to close down these servers, and unless they relent and port the map generation et all to the client, well, no more Diablo 3. I can't imagine it will last as long as Diablo 2 with that in mind.
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
This isn't an issue that is only attributed to MMO's. Most Popular Multiplayer games have issues on Day 1. This goes for RTS, FPS, MMO, Any Multiplayer game that is decently popular.
Dunno man. I seem to recall Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 to have pretty smooth launches.
LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3... you know the part about games being hosted by the players.
I appreciate that there's a difference between a chiefly client/server FPS and a hybrid peer-to-peer/client-server game like D3.
But please bear in mind the context of the conversation:
Bigity: This isn't an MMO, Blizzard should have its act together.
Delphinidaes: Non-MMOs (like FPSes and any MP game that's popular) have these problems, too.
jdarksun: Really? Because two of the most popular (BF3, ME3) had better Day 1 up time.
Then you come in with:
Jubal77: "LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3"
Actually in between there I stated that this game is almost full MMO. It has all the elements and is not a hybrid p2p client server game. From everything I have seen it is a full client/server based game complete with functionality within it comparable to most MMOs. Just because there is not 100s of players in one area doesnt mean it takes all that less on the server side. TBH I doubt D3 takes much less server side than WoW does. Just alot less scale.
I'm not sure about that. Remember when the Game Creation Servers came down earlier? It stopped people from starting new games, but it didn't stop the people who were already playing. That strongly hints at a significant amount of peer-to-peer functionality.
It's a really interesting situation from a tech standpoint, and I am super curious to hear how they designed it.
It's still a client-server model. Game Creation servers does not imply any sort of peer-to-peer setup, merely that Game Creation and Game Running are handled on seperate hardware. Which could make sense from a technical point of view given all the chat bullshit and such needed for Game Creation that is useless once the game exists.
Login screen now says Battle.net is down. As in all of it. Holy shit, we broke it good!
I suppose y'all have a valid point about online-only problems, but I just don't feel it's very productive bitching about it in here. I remember going through this with WoW several times, and everyone gets bent out of shape for a few days and says Blizzard is evil and wrong, etc. and then it all smooths out and everyone forgets how bad it was until the next time it happens. But y'all still bought the game - many pre-ordered it - knowing full well that launch day was going to be a colossal cluster-eff. To complain about it is naive at best and at worst intellectually dishonest.
So people are back to arguing "You shouldn't expect the game you bought to work"? All righty.
you shouldn't expect the day of release of a 100% online game to be completely smooth, yes.
5 years ago, maybe. For a game to come out and shit the bed this completely in 2012 is fucking absurd. Especially a game that has been in beta for years. From a company that put out the biggest online game in the English speaking world. With a budget of $infinity. These problems are not things that Blizzard has never encountered before. This isn't a cash strapped indie company suddenly making it big. This is a completely botched launch by the largest name in the market. Will we get over it? Sure. But the idea that my expectations were too high for a game twelve years in the making is utter horse shit.
Eh, the launch went better than the diablo II launch. I have had a lot of fun and i don't think the launch was botched. Clearly the launched was over their expecations.
Also you can probably still play on the Asian/European servers. At least I did when the America's servers were down
exactly, the day we just expect this shit to be broken day 1 is the day that as a people we are broken.
it should work, we should demand that it should work or else it will never work
THIS is what bothers me. Such ridiculous hyperbole undermines your argument and makes you look like a tad goosey. It is logisitically IMPOSSIBLE to have a smooth launch on day one of the most popular video game on the planet. To DEMAND that is be so just adds more feathers to that outfit.
It's a bad launch. I mean, Blizzard knew this would happened and took a calculated risk. People will not give an isolated fuck a week from now about today unless we have a repeat of WoW's launch on our hands.
I certainly don't have any kind of pity or sympathy for Blizzard. This isn't worth creating a terrible fuss over, but I'm also not going to be creating excuses and defenses for a company that knew damn well that this was going to happen. They are screwing us today in order to make more cash in the long run.
And who is to blame them? It'll fucking work, so why do something for the sake of "niceness" when your game's quality will garner plenty of consumer goodwill in the long run?
yeah, basically
I think they probably should've held off on letting guest passers in (which is what I am fyi), but who knows if that would've actually helped anything
it's obviously very easy to say that they should have foreseen every contingency, but even assuming this was truly unforseen... so what?
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The White Knighting in this thread is kinda sad. You guys do know that defending Blizzard won't get you increased money and magic find, right?
You do know that complaining or insulting their competency won't get the servers up any faster right?
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
This isn't an issue that is only attributed to MMO's. Most Popular Multiplayer games have issues on Day 1. This goes for RTS, FPS, MMO, Any Multiplayer game that is decently popular.
Dunno man. I seem to recall Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 to have pretty smooth launches.
LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3... you know the part about games being hosted by the players.
I appreciate that there's a difference between a chiefly client/server FPS and a hybrid peer-to-peer/client-server game like D3.
But please bear in mind the context of the conversation:
Bigity: This isn't an MMO, Blizzard should have its act together.
Delphinidaes: Non-MMOs (like FPSes and any MP game that's popular) have these problems, too.
jdarksun: Really? Because two of the most popular (BF3, ME3) had better Day 1 up time.
Then you come in with:
Jubal77: "LOL... There is a difference between FPS and a game like D3"
Dunno I had pretty major issues day one for BF3 and I certainly wasn't alone. I haven't played Mass Effect 3 so I cannot comment on the launch for that.
For me though I like to look at it like this: I go into it expecting the game to work Day 1, but if it doesn't I am never surprised.
Ah, I forgot about the console release issues with BF3. It was pretty good on the PC side, though some Russian folk had problems.
Still not on the scale of problems Diablo 3 is having. If it was an MMO, I'd call it the worst launch since WoW.
BF3 doesn't have their servers solely hosted by DICE/EA. A lot of the servers in the game are those bought/owned/rented by enthusiasts. It's apples and oranges.
Expecting a game to work when it comes out is not unrealistic expectations. They should have been prepared. They were not. Therefore they dropped the ball.
It's basically an MMO. Expecting the servers not to crash on launch day is, in fact, unrealistic. Or, at the very least, incredibly hopeful.
I'd expect them to have a solid online infrastructure if they are requiring it for any play, at all.
This isn't a MMO.
As someone mentioned earlier today, they can have a solid online infrastructure for their expected average amount of traffic, and that not hold up on launch night.
Investing the $ to support launch traffic, and then have those servers sit around doing nothing after the first 2 weeks, is kinda silly.
Considering that the single player online requirements seem to exist manly to protect the auction house, which is a money maker for Blizzard, then yeah, I'd say it's reason to expect them to invest the money.
Or if the monetary investment isn't worth the profits from the auction house, then maybe make some different decisions.
The game was designed to be played online. The loot generation aspect of the game is server-side, as I understand it. When they thought about adding an offline mode, they realized it'd be too inconvenient / unproductive to take the loot generation part and build it into the offline game.
So they just went with online-only.
Which is fine by me.
That's cool that it's fine by you. I'm not telling you that YOU should be upset.
Maybe don't tell other people how to feel, though. Maybe people get to feel their own feelings, and not everybody has to feel yours.
I agree...mostly with your sentiment.
But if persons have unrealistic expectations, and have sadness as a result of that, do you think it problematic for persons to point out that their expectations are unrealistic?
Cause if they can shift to realistic expectations, then maybe they won't be sad and, instead, can be sort of amused by the situation.
I've found that being amused by server downtime is far healthier than getting pissed off about it.
Eh. Being demanding can be healthy. It's a part of how progress gets made. We shouldn't be OK with bullshit because "that's the way things are." Paying $money for something that doesn't work is bullshit, no matter the justifications (and I know and understand those justifications).
That doesn't mean I'm in a tizzy or getting pissy or throwing a fit, or anything. This is small fry. But small fry or otherwise... when you deal with Bad ThingsTM, saying "this is bad" is an entirely appropriate reaction.
I just want to thank everyone for the great entertainment while the servers are down. This argument/debate/discussion is awesome and often times hilarious. :P (Not to say that I'm not still sad about not being able to play, but this is really great, you guys.. thanks!)
"No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."
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I *think* checkpoints are for deaths. When I died (stupid tree elites) I got sent to a checkpoint. If you're quitting, you want a waypoint.
I had no idea what Dino D-Day was.
Then I googled it.
Thank you, sir, for alerting me to the existence of this game.
And it is your personal job to stand in the way of action? Do you work for Blizzard? Could you tell your bosses to fix this?
Calling people "entitled" for expecting the thing that they paid $60~$100 for to work properly is absurd. If this was freeware you might have a point, but Blizzard has just made a whole lot of money off of people who are completely unable to use what they spent the money for.
I certainly don't have any kind of pity or sympathy for Blizzard. This isn't worth creating a terrible fuss over, but I'm also not going to be creating excuses and defenses for a company that knew damn well that this was going to happen. They are screwing us today in order to make more cash in the long run.
And who is to blame them? It'll fucking work, so why do something for the sake of "niceness" when your game's quality will garner plenty of consumer goodwill in the long run?
Dunno I had pretty major issues day one for BF3 and I certainly wasn't alone. I haven't played Mass Effect 3 so I cannot comment on the launch for that.
For me though I like to look at it like this: I go into it expecting the game to work Day 1, but if it doesn't I am never surprised.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Not if you worked for blizzard or any other MMO company to date actually. One thing to remember is that while D3 does have ongoing issues with the actual D3 servers all of the other servers are in a "shared" environment. Login servers and battle.net are not just D3 based and an increased load on these will cause problems unforeseen.
Those still exist right?
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
I think I'm done with this conversation, but I'll repeat what quite a few people have already pointed out.
It's BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT. The makers of World of Warcraft, the biggest MMORPG in history. There is no excuse for them to fuck this up this badly. Absolutely none.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
No, I do not expect them to understand.
Personally, though? I kind of find it a bit asinine for someone to be interested in online gaming, but not invest the time to learn anything about how it works.
The fact that there are people who care about the Diablo series, but honestly had no idea that D3 was being released, until they saw the ad on TV? I don't understand those people. I'd expect the sorts of people who want to play on release day to be the sorts of people who participate in gaming forums / gaming culture.
Activision?
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
They did their best to test and debug their systems before launch, but did not catch everything. Shit happens.
I'm pretty biased in Blizzard's favor due to being a programmer.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
A fair amount I'd say. Not me personally, but I know a few people that were bummed. Not enough to not order it mind you, more of a "Not in release? Ah well i'm sure it will be out soon enough"
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I don't see a notice about server downtimes on my retail package. I just double-checked, to be perfectly fair to you. It says that I'm required to have an internet connection, and my internet connection is currently up and kicking (hence my ability to post here.)
There is nothing unrealistic about expecting a product to work.
Also: Torchlight 2 needs to get released already.
Also2: Someone pointed out something important -- some day, Activision is going to close down these servers, and unless they relent and port the map generation et all to the client, well, no more Diablo 3. I can't imagine it will last as long as Diablo 2 with that in mind.
I've always viewed the Diablo PVP fans the same way Hardcore fans are; they're in the minority (by every bit of info and anecdote I've seen) but those who are into it are vocal and passionate to an extreme.
Hell, I'll probably draw some ire here just for saying either was anything but the majority and the pinnacle of all D2 related gaming, but I'm not convinced either side is anything but a vocal minority.
Good folks, invested and passionate, but dear lord if you piss them off....
Uh, just because they run an MMO doesn't mean they've magically solved launch day load.
You act like MMOs have fixed this issue or something. They haven't. They've just accepted it's existence.
Indeed we also saw that battle.net going down does not affect in game as well. I would imagine that there are dedicated servers for instance creation as well as other heavy processes like logins, item creation etc... You are then passed on to one of the "game" servers at this point. Another example that would also show that they have separate systems operating different aspects is that my achievements did not get committed do whatever houses the "state" database which could also be broken up into pieces as I still had my level and items after relogging in after the first server shutdown but I did not have the achievs.
No it doesn't. This is a huge leap. Sometimes the world servers in WoW go down and people in instance servers are okay. Then you instantly crash when you try to exit the servers. It's not peer to peer. It's legitimately a different server. You cannot have any part of this game be peer to peer otherwise you're opening the game up to the hacks and dupes it's online only to begin with.
We live in a world in which things sometimes break.
Expecting things to not break shows a complete lack of understanding for the world in which we live.
If you bought an online-only game, without any consideration for the fact that, maybe, it would fuck up on release night? Then maybe you need to pause, and reconsider your world outlook.
This thread is getting ridiculous
It's still a client-server model. Game Creation servers does not imply any sort of peer-to-peer setup, merely that Game Creation and Game Running are handled on seperate hardware. Which could make sense from a technical point of view given all the chat bullshit and such needed for Game Creation that is useless once the game exists.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/status
^ server status link. I think instead of playing on another region i'll just sleep and wake up early
THIS is what bothers me. Such ridiculous hyperbole undermines your argument and makes you look like a tad goosey. It is logisitically IMPOSSIBLE to have a smooth launch on day one of the most popular video game on the planet. To DEMAND that is be so just adds more feathers to that outfit.
yeah, basically
I think they probably should've held off on letting guest passers in (which is what I am fyi), but who knows if that would've actually helped anything
it's obviously very easy to say that they should have foreseen every contingency, but even assuming this was truly unforseen... so what?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You do know that complaining or insulting their competency won't get the servers up any faster right?
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
BF3 doesn't have their servers solely hosted by DICE/EA. A lot of the servers in the game are those bought/owned/rented by enthusiasts. It's apples and oranges.
It's basically an MMO. Expecting the servers not to crash on launch day is, in fact, unrealistic. Or, at the very least, incredibly hopeful.
"How are we going to stop gold farmers in Diablo 3?"
"What if...and bear with me...what if instead of preventing it...we found a way to profit off of gold farming?"
"....my god...."
Eh. Being demanding can be healthy. It's a part of how progress gets made. We shouldn't be OK with bullshit because "that's the way things are." Paying $money for something that doesn't work is bullshit, no matter the justifications (and I know and understand those justifications).
That doesn't mean I'm in a tizzy or getting pissy or throwing a fit, or anything. This is small fry. But small fry or otherwise... when you deal with Bad ThingsTM, saying "this is bad" is an entirely appropriate reaction.
"No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."