People knocked it because Frank didn't speak for like the first 20 minutes of the movie. I like it though in the cheesy, over the top, better budgeted grindhouse kinda way.
Punisher War Zone spoilers
The best scene was Punisher annihilating the mob family in their mansion. That was classic Punisher. Him not spekaing much I'm fine with. It's just aside from his officer ally, and Microchip, the story and villains weren't that interesting. Jigsaw & Looney Bin Jim were terrible. An unarmed martial artist is not a good physical threat to the Punisher in a movie, at least not how Jim was executed. Live Free or Die Hard had a much better martial artist bad guy. Jigsaw was pathetic.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Yeah, the villains weren't really anything special.
My mother of all people liked the first one more because it showed Frank as a more calculating person (doing his recon work, planting/fabricating evidence against his enemies, manipulating everyone) before the attack as opposed to just showing the attack.
Yeah, the villains weren't really anything special.
My mother of all people liked the first one more because it showed Frank as a more calculating person (doing his recon work, planting/fabricating evidence against his enemies, manipulating everyone) before the attack as opposed to just showing the attack.
The Thomas Jane movie? I liked that aspect, too. That got a lot right. Btw, it's the second Punisher movie, the first was played by Dolph Lungren. :twisted:
Anyone else think Jim Caviezel would make an excellent Batman for the reboot?
It's only marginally better than Hasselhoff's Nick Fury film.
It's a guilty pleasure. It's so insane I can't help but to enjoy it. Hasselhoff's Fury OTOH was awful. It may as well have been a parody. Thankfully we finally have a good Fury with Samuel L. Jackson.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Close. Avatar still beats it IIRC. It did do better then any other Disney film in history and TDK, though.
From what I've heard Avengers has already broken a billion while Avatar is at $760 mil, though I could be mistaken
No, it broke a billion including internationally. Avatar made 760 mill in the US alone. I think it's at 3 billion world-wide, making it just as untouchable in that category.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Didn't Avengers break Avatar's opening and second weekend records?
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
Didn't Serenity almost break even in theaters? Sure it wasn't a huge success but that's hardly a flop.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
Didn't Serenity almost break even in theaters? Sure it wasn't a huge success but that's hardly a flop.
Not really. It had a budget of 40 million, made 25 domestically and 38 worldwide. Which isn't exactly impressive. John Carter, for example, is considered a massive flop, but even made back its budget thanks to foreign markets.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
Didn't Serenity almost break even in theaters? Sure it wasn't a huge success but that's hardly a flop.
Not really. It had a budget of 40 million, made 25 domestically and 38 worldwide. Which isn't exactly impressive. John Carter, for example, is considered a massive flop, but even made back its budget thanks to foreign markets.
I prefer mxmarks take on it. Transition #1 is painful and drawn out. Transition #2 is fluid and in control. Its almost like Banner is accepting that the Hulk is his natural state, and expending energy to keep himself as Banner is what causes the painful transition.
Yes, well, the reason mxmarks is citing is the actual reason from the script, only there are only the sparest hints that it is accurate in the version that made it to the theatre. I'm sure the extended cut will cover all the bases.
My version was just what allowed me to understand and roll with it, given the clear evidence given in the most recent Hulk movie and this movie, as opposed to deleted scenes that we can't guess at because we can't see through time.
Hmm..I just accepted that the staff had magic make everyone around you angry because all the characters were acting like angry ass holes and in the same room as the staff. They seemed to make it a point that Loki wanted to be caught and release the hulk.
I figured Banner could change at will whenever and the staff just made a normally angry hulk mindlessly pissed and there was a struggle to keep Hulk at bay...maybe I'm easily pleased though
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
I don't know what you're considering his work, but he's written and worked on a lot of popular and mainstream stuff. Toy Story, Speed and X-men among other things.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
I don't know what you're considering his work, but he's written and worked on a lot of popular and mainstream stuff. Toy Story, Speed and X-men among other things.
He did script passes on those films. The only one where he even got a WGA credit was Toy Story, among eight other writers.
Anyway, Hulk stuff. Maybe I just like to go for the obvious road, but I had figured that the reason the first transformation happened was just because Banner got knocked out for a second. The Hulk came out mindlessly as a defense mechanism before Banner could get his shit back together.
My understanding of the Hulk out was that, in the first instance, none of the people seemed like allies. Everyone is yelling and everyone looks untrustworthy (except Tony and Cap since they frown on the weaponizing the cube). Moreover, SHIELD is using Banner to find their weapon battery, and Banner does not like being dragged into conflict creations, whether he is the weapon or just making one. Finally, SHIELD in general and Widow and Fury in particular have been hiding things and making deathtraps for Banner in case he Hulks out. Thus, the first Hulk out he is more than justified to tear the place apart. He didn't get a chance to go after Tony or Cap, but I think it likely he wouldn't have harmed them at all unless they struck first (bad move on your part Thor).
The second time, he is realizing they need to ban together, and that this group is willing to make the sacrifice to save the world. Thus they are now allies in Banner's mind and why he is able to assist them while Hulk. He can always tell friend from foe, it is just easy to fall into the foe category.
Also, Hulk sucker punched Thor because he had some residual anger from the first round, but didn't follow up the sucker punch because he is an ally and knew he could take it fine.
When you say sucker punched are you talking about that bit in the building when he hits him in the shoulder after wrecking those dudes? I thought was just an over enthusiastic good job! jab.
Wouldn't exactly call the first Hulk transformation "justified". First, Black Widow was helpless. She was no physical threat to him under any circumstance. If Thor didn't arrive in time she could have been killed or crippled by him, the Avengers would be a man down for nothing.
Second, the Hulk has been a genuine threat until the Avengers finale. Before then every time he'd transformed he's been a significant threat, even if Ross' forces were the aggressors. They were wrong for going after him* but every time he tried to defend himself they and he placed any innocent nearby in danger if they pissed him off or perceived as a threat, which is easy to do as the Black Widow showed.
Third, SHIELD Hulk cage was not a bad thing. It was a prison and the Hulk has proven he can be a threat to the public or authorities when Banner can't suppress or control him. Sure, he was nice to Betty but who knows how long that would have lasted. Any time she had an argument with it would it have attacked her? I would not rule out that possibility from the equation.
Also, it's not like Hulk hasn't committed crimes. It's responsible for enormous property damage and who knows how many innocent people have died or injured from its rampages off-screen.
* for the wrong reasons Hulk was a threat to the public by remaining at large, they were just only interested in using him to make their own super-soldiers and cover up Ross illegal activities
is kind of a high-level player concerning lies and deceit. like, she deceives fucking loki in the movie, a feat that should really show how dangerous she can be.
Banner is also very intelligent and has been tricked by her once already. So... not trusting her/viewing her a an enemy is not that far off imho
is kind of a high-level player concerning lies and deceit. like, she deceives fucking loki in the movie, a feat that should really show how dangerous she can be.
Banner is also very intelligent and has been tricked by her once already. So... not trusting her/viewing her a an enemy is not that far off imho
Lies & deceit are no threat to the Hulk. It's not smart enough to fall for them. That's why Widow is so afraid of him. She has no defense against him. Guns? Useless. Widow's Stinger? Useless. Martial arts? Useless. Talking to him into calming down? Useless.
There's a difference between not trusting somebody, which they both had genuine reasons for it*, and trying to physically harm them for being the enemy. She was not entirely truthful with Banner but she never betrayed him, hurt him, imprisoned him (which is not an unreasonable response to an entity like the Hulk) or tried to kill him**. She was afraid of Hulk. A being she had reason to fear.
She also needed to trick him to get his help. Without that he'd have never left India to aide the Avengers against Loki & the Chiaturi or become friends with Stark.
* Banner is not a harmless scientist, he can turn into a monster who will kill you the second it views you as a threat no matter how weak you are against it
** I'm excluding the incidents Widow and Fury were using their guns to kill Banner since they had good reasons to fear a full transformation. Not that it would have killed Banner or the Hulk had they succeeded in firing
I really hope this movie has a commentary iirc most Marvel films don't (Maybe Thor does. I know Iron man and Incredible hulk don't.) but I would love to hear Joss just expand on some scenes
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I really hope this movie has a commentary iirc most Marvel films don't (Maybe Thor does. I know Iron man and Incredible hulk don't.) but I would love to hear Joss just expand on some scenes
Thor,Captain America & Iron Man 2 have commentaries by their directors on dvd. Avengers might since Whedon has done that before with his projects. I'm interested in hearing what he has to say, I'd also like to have him do it with the cast as well.
I really enjoyed Punisher: War Zone after I understood what it was. It's a hard R, deliberately over-the-top action film that never takes its foot off the pedal. It's no comic book movie. It is the type of flick that would be on TBS after a Braves game, right after they've already shown Lethal Weapon 2 for the 12th time that week. Except War Zone has so much creatively graphic, explicit violence that if it were ever shown on cable, it would have to be cut down to just 5 minutes worth of Castle hanging out in his underground hideout.
The hyperviolence was a little off-putting at first, but by the end of the film we were laughing at it, because it's just so exaggerated and at times comical. And speaking of comical, that's exactly where that stuff came from: The comics.
According to director Lexi Alexander, the only thing she added was the
scene where Castle kills the parkour guy with a rocket launcher.
Everything else was lifted straight from various Punisher issues.
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Punisher War Zone spoilers
My mother of all people liked the first one more because it showed Frank as a more calculating person (doing his recon work, planting/fabricating evidence against his enemies, manipulating everyone) before the attack as opposed to just showing the attack.
The Thomas Jane movie? I liked that aspect, too. That got a lot right. Btw, it's the second Punisher movie, the first was played by Dolph Lungren. :twisted:
Anyone else think Jim Caviezel would make an excellent Batman for the reboot?
It's only marginally better than Hasselhoff's Nick Fury film.
It's a guilty pleasure. It's so insane I can't help but to enjoy it. Hasselhoff's Fury OTOH was awful. It may as well have been a parody. Thankfully we finally have a good Fury with Samuel L. Jackson.
Has anyone mentioned how insane it is that Joss Whedon made what's apparently the most successful movie ever? Because it is very insane.
Close. Avatar still beats it IIRC. It did do better then any other Disney film in history and TDK, though.
From what I've heard Avengers has already broken a billion while Avatar is at $760 mil, though I could be mistaken
No, it broke a billion including internationally. Avatar made 760 mill in the US alone. I think it's at 3 billion world-wide, making it just as untouchable in that category.
In the US. But Avatar still has more money in total.
Not really. Whedon's made a lot of fairly popular stuff before. It's no more shocking than Nolan making TDK.
Not really. Whedon's niche has always been low-rated stuff with critical respect and huge nerd cred. Every series he has made has either been cancelled early or on the bubble for most of its run. Even Buffy struggled to survive after the third season. Serenity was a theatrical flop that did well on video.
It's kind of like if Bjork suddenly became the world's biggest musical act.
Didn't Serenity almost break even in theaters? Sure it wasn't a huge success but that's hardly a flop.
True.
Not really. It had a budget of 40 million, made 25 domestically and 38 worldwide. Which isn't exactly impressive. John Carter, for example, is considered a massive flop, but even made back its budget thanks to foreign markets.
Ok.
Hmm..I just accepted that the staff had magic make everyone around you angry because all the characters were acting like angry ass holes and in the same room as the staff. They seemed to make it a point that Loki wanted to be caught and release the hulk.
I figured Banner could change at will whenever and the staff just made a normally angry hulk mindlessly pissed and there was a struggle to keep Hulk at bay...maybe I'm easily pleased though
I don't know what you're considering his work, but he's written and worked on a lot of popular and mainstream stuff. Toy Story, Speed and X-men among other things.
He did script passes on those films. The only one where he even got a WGA credit was Toy Story, among eight other writers.
This will surely motivate him.
Seriously though, I could see him as an Eric O'Grady somewhere down the line.
Fillion as a Marvel Hero ?
Has to be Doc Samson.
NPH is a hard sell. Like i can see him as Johnny Storm if Marvel ever gets the FF rights back but one based on the ultimate version.
Damn it...
Yes.
He can be taught to be regal!
Neil Patrick Harris?
Anyway, Hulk stuff. Maybe I just like to go for the obvious road, but I had figured that the reason the first transformation happened was just because Banner got knocked out for a second. The Hulk came out mindlessly as a defense mechanism before Banner could get his shit back together.
The second time, he is realizing they need to ban together, and that this group is willing to make the sacrifice to save the world. Thus they are now allies in Banner's mind and why he is able to assist them while Hulk. He can always tell friend from foe, it is just easy to fall into the foe category.
Also, Hulk sucker punched Thor because he had some residual anger from the first round, but didn't follow up the sucker punch because he is an ally and knew he could take it fine.
Second, the Hulk has been a genuine threat until the Avengers finale. Before then every time he'd transformed he's been a significant threat, even if Ross' forces were the aggressors. They were wrong for going after him* but every time he tried to defend himself they and he placed any innocent nearby in danger if they pissed him off or perceived as a threat, which is easy to do as the Black Widow showed.
Third, SHIELD Hulk cage was not a bad thing. It was a prison and the Hulk has proven he can be a threat to the public or authorities when Banner can't suppress or control him. Sure, he was nice to Betty but who knows how long that would have lasted. Any time she had an argument with it would it have attacked her? I would not rule out that possibility from the equation.
Also, it's not like Hulk hasn't committed crimes. It's responsible for enormous property damage and who knows how many innocent people have died or injured from its rampages off-screen.
* for the wrong reasons Hulk was a threat to the public by remaining at large, they were just only interested in using him to make their own super-soldiers and cover up Ross illegal activities
Banner is also very intelligent and has been tricked by her once already. So... not trusting her/viewing her a an enemy is not that far off imho
There's a difference between not trusting somebody, which they both had genuine reasons for it*, and trying to physically harm them for being the enemy. She was not entirely truthful with Banner but she never betrayed him, hurt him, imprisoned him (which is not an unreasonable response to an entity like the Hulk) or tried to kill him**. She was afraid of Hulk. A being she had reason to fear.
She also needed to trick him to get his help. Without that he'd have never left India to aide the Avengers against Loki & the Chiaturi or become friends with Stark.
* Banner is not a harmless scientist, he can turn into a monster who will kill you the second it views you as a threat no matter how weak you are against it
** I'm excluding the incidents Widow and Fury were using their guns to kill Banner since they had good reasons to fear a full transformation. Not that it would have killed Banner or the Hulk had they succeeded in firing
Thor, Captain America & Iron Man 2 have commentaries by their directors on dvd. Avengers might since Whedon has done that before with his projects. I'm interested in hearing what he has to say, I'd also like to have him do it with the cast as well.
Mark Strong is already the perfect regal Namor though
The hyperviolence was a little off-putting at first, but by the end of the film we were laughing at it, because it's just so exaggerated and at times comical. And speaking of comical, that's exactly where that stuff came from: The comics.
According to director Lexi Alexander, the only thing she added was the
Everything else was lifted straight from various Punisher issues.