Falling in love with Shyvana jungle again now that I bought the darkflame skin. I don't love it as much as Maokai I don't think, but depending on the rest of my team comp it can be really good, especially if the enemy team picks an Alistar/Fiddle jungle or anybody else who doesn't clear that fast, because while I won't gank as much as I normally would on Mao, I just outlevel the other jungler like crazy and keep them underfarmed, and when it comes to team fighting I'm bringing way more to the fights than them. Running exhaust/smite on her due to her lack of CC for ganks has worked fine since she's so fast anyway for escapes if I need to run.
Ganking is still a thing you should do. Hopefully you'll pick Shyvana when your lanes have some CC and even if they don't you should be taking exhaust. Shyvana does a lot a lot of damage at level 2 and people don't expect an early gank. It's pretty easy to start their wraiths, their red (with a nice leash from your mid) and run in with boots behind the closest outside or mid lane when they don't suspect it at all. Nobody ever thinks Shyvana can gank at level two or that it's effective. Exhaust beats flash and level 1 burnout does sooooo much damage if you can wail on them long enough to sustain it at all.
Start boots 3, run as fast as humanly possible to the brush between their red and the mid lane (that little side brush by wraiths). This will give you plenty of advance warning if they're going to start red and will let you bail out. Your entire team should be there just in case, or at least mid + the closest laner(s). It's a preposterously strong start that fucks over their jungler and hopefully a lane. By the time they know what's happened you can be back in your jungle and make it dangerous for the enemy to steal your own red in retaliation.
Extra credit: wards. Get the support to ward your red since it's the most obvious way for them to respond to your invade. Or, ward their red (either where you can see wraiths and them head to red, or in the red brush itself). Do something like wraiths -> blue (get a strong leash so you don't have to burn smite) -> wolves, then try to meet them at their red. Smite their red, kill them. With their red and exhaust you're super hard to shake and you can grab a kill pretty easy on their jungler. Your lanes should be ready to react if their laners leave to come get you.
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely still gank lanes on Shyv, it's just I'm only playing her in 4 and 5 man premades with my friends, and they ward early and pressure lanes hard. Our top and bot generally go quite aggressive early, so it's hard to gank, and I hate wasting time trying to set up a gank when I could be taking my jungle or theirs and just beating their jungle in gold/exp. I'll have to try starting their wraiths/red and ganking at level 2. I still think it'll be hard even with exhaust, because they're still going to be so close to their tower a flash can get them out of it, but a burned flash is still a win, so it might be worth doing.
Question: If i'm going to ward their red to try to steal it after I wraiths/blue/wolves, who should put that ward at their red? If I start boots/3 which I usually do, I won't have the gold for it. Ask my support to put one there? They're the only one starting with wards typically, so I'm guessing that's what you mean.
I love how much damage Shyvana does. Yesterday my top lane Yorick was facing a Vayne, and she had him pretty low and he needed to B, so I figured I'd go up and chase her out of lane or at least get her a bit more scared. She tried to toe to toe me, and I almost killed her before she ran under tower. I had already built some armor, so she was just tickling me, heh.
Also, since it sounds like you know Shyv a bit, what's your item build? I've been going boots/3 into wriggle's, heart of gold, tabi/merc depending on enemy team, phage, wit's end, turn phage into frozen mallet, then building either aegis/warmog's/force of nature depending on who I fear on the enemy team late game. If the game kept going and I went mallet/warmogs, I would sell the HoG for an Atma's or whatever.
Shyvana is probably my first or second best champion depending on who you ask and what day you catch me.
Yes, your support should be warding.
As far as ganking it's really, really not that hard with exhaust. You'll definitely fuck it up a time or two but even if you're coming from their red or yours, it's a very powerful gank that even if it doesn't result in a kill, you'll definitely put your lane ahead.
Your build is pretty similar for the most part. boots 3 - > hog -> usually phage, wits end can be built here depending on matchups and how far ahead you are -> which ever one you didn't build. After this you have tons of options, I usually opt to go tankier. Aegis is a super great all around tanky item, you can either opt for Warden's Mail vs autoattackers, you can build the mallet for health, or for magic resist Maw is a pretty good compromise item on her, or of course Force of Nature or something. I'd probably wrap it up with some sort of offensive item, Bloodthirster, Cleaver, or Youmuus are all pretty good items on her.
I pretty rarely build wriggles on things anymore. I think you get too used to the sustain and stuff, and some of the lower tier junglers DEFINITELY need it, but characters like Shyvana, Lee Sin, or Riven are really strong clearers and don't really need the lifesteal or anything so you can build other things (like Dorans on Lee Sin or Riven). And then most of the other junglers I play are support junglers, so they also don't even build Wriggles at all (Mao or Amumu). This isn't to say that I will NEVER build Wriggles on those characters, I just tend to not, maybe 85% of the time. The only jungler that I play extensively who I always get wriggles on is probably Nocturne. There are all kinds of other junglers that I like where it's really useful to cover some other deficiency (Olaf or Wukong spring to mind right away) but that's it.
I think the big issue is that Wriggles doesn't kick in fast enough if I start boots pots, which I almost ALWAYS do. By the time Riven or Shyvana can finish it, they don't need the sustain, they just blow camps up no problem.
Thanks again. I'll have to think about skipping Wriggle's on her. I guess I was taking it for the sustain not really thinking about how fast she clears by the time you get it anyway. The armor is nice on it too, but then again, not spending 1600g on it means getting to phage/wit's end faster, which are more impactful items. Do you ever finish her build with a triforce as an offensive item? You didn't mention it, and I've never built it on her, but I've seen it suggested.
Also, since you mentioned Wukong jungle, can you tell me what items you build on him to jungle? And offensive or defensive masteries? I freaking love Wukong top lane and even mid as a counter when I have a kennen top sometimes, but I've never tried him in the jungle yet.
I guess you could but I haven't ever gotten that far into a game with her. It would be like the last thing ever and I'd have to really not want the health from Frozen Mallet.
As for Wukong, Metagoleming isn't the worst thing ever on him. He totally needs Wriggles though he has garbage sustain.
I by no means think Hat is wrong, but to offer a slightly different Shyvana assessment:
I'm a big fan of Wriggles because its always useful. It has a good mixture of everything and while Shyv doesn't really need the proc to jungle fast, its nice to have extra speed (especially if you're stealing an enemy blue or red and need to get the job done fast).
What's best about it is the flexibility it gives you in warding. The moment you buy Wriggles you've basically got a ~4 gold per 10 item in free wards. In some ways the wards you get as a jungler and with Wriggles are better, as they're less predictable and harder to track. If your opponent sees your top return to lane with a ward, run into the bush, and come out with no ward, "duh bush is warded." Who tracks when the jungler buys a wriggles and which river they might have been close to? Ward enemy buffs to aggressively counterjungle, ward lanes to help your teammates, ward jungle entrances to give better map awareness, ward the opposite jungle lane to make stealing golems / wraiths extremely easy, ward everything because nobody can see you do it so nobody knows to expect it.
I think Hat is right that it isn't a necessary item and it does slow down all sorts of great items, but any time I play without it I always miss the extra bit of armor, damage, and lifesteal it gives plus the flexible ward.
As for the rest, I'm a huge fan of early Phage / Mallet on Shyv, it turns her into a ganking machine and the extra health is always useful. With R as an initiate, Shyv can be on top of pretty much anyone in a lane or teamfight, and once you have a mallet they aren't getting away. I consider it core, but YMMV.
Triforce Shyv is fun but there are better items for the cost and slot. The mana is obviously wasted, Frozen Mallet is better for stickiness and it doesn't make you particularly tanky. Fun to build if you're 15/0 when laning is finished but otherwise not worthwhile.
Eh, I used to carry it around a lot on Lee Sin because it's like OH FREE WARD. Except I always carry bonus wards and I don't NEED anything on the Wriggles. The only thing you're really missing on it is the proc and honestly it's not a big deal for clearing. If you NEED it to get away with the buff, you're either not warding enough/watching the map for the enemy jungler or you're doing it too risky which is something someone WILL punish you for eventually. All good junglers will know what the timers are and base their plans around it. Those plans can be changed, but you should be able to see those plans change via warding or where they're ganking on the map. This is not a good habit. The only thing I really miss about it is early level dragon and baroning.
I dont really find that true with riven though because her cleartime is just insane. If you focus only on clearing you can outpace top and mid in level.
I suppose this is true but if you're doing it this way you're absolutely doing it wrong. Riven is a monster ganker and invader. If you want to farm your own jungle, then you need to play a different game, since that's not a niche that's valuable at all in a jungler. Even if you're keeping up in CS, I'm pretty sure the value per CS is much lower, and it really just means your lanes are bad. You shouldn't be keeping up with the lanes in farm. It means you're pretty much not ganking at all ever and there's absolutely no jungler in the game where that's an acceptable plan.
Eh, I used to carry it around a lot on Lee Sin because it's like OH FREE WARD. Except I always carry bonus wards and I don't NEED anything on the Wriggles. The only thing you're really missing on it is the proc and honestly it's not a big deal for clearing. If you NEED it to get away with the buff, you're either not warding enough/watching the map for the enemy jungler or you're doing it too risky which is something someone WILL punish you for eventually. All good junglers will know what the timers are and base their plans around it. Those plans can be changed, but you should be able to see those plans change via warding or where they're ganking on the map. This is not a good habit. The only thing I really miss about it is early level dragon and baroning.
Well, Wriggles doesn't change how many other wards you can carry, I view it less as "ZOMG FREE WARD!" and more as a GP/10 item that means you get the same coverage with less purchased wards, otherwise you start thinking "free ward" and then you think "wriggles = no buying wards again" and then you have bad map coverage because you only ever have one ward up. Its essentially a GP/10 item (so long as you use it).
It is a huge advantage on dragon, it really helps on Shyv to be able to make a strong level 6-8 gank on bot lane (DRAGON FORM HOOOOOOOOOOO) and try to turn that into a dragon clear. Not necessary, just nice. Same with blue and red, you don't need it to take or steal, but faster = better and Wriggles is absolutely faster.
It is, however, still 1600 GP. I like it, but it isn't cheap and you do end up paying alot of gold for a very wide variety of stats. I like it, I don't think its mandatory on Shyv, but I do think its a solid pick.
I am confused with why you'd go early HoG over Wriggles first. Do you try to get HoG on your first clear to get early GP/10? Wriggles and HoG are both going to "pay off" in gold, one in wards other in straight income. If you were rushing some other item I could understand why you wouldn't want Wriggles, its 1600 gold that could go towards (INSERT BADASS ITEM YOU WANT), but if you go HoG first what are you building for instead?
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
The issue is that I was essentially wasting two slots on wards instead of just having one slot for wards. There's nothing on Wriggles that honestly I couldn't get away with with like two or three Doran's Blades aside from the proc. And again it just sounds like you're playing pretty dicey. If you can clear the dragon, it probably doesn't matter. The only times I really wish I had Wriggles would be like "Oh man I know they have no ward and bottom lane just went back so I could sneak it in solo real quick" but I can count the number of times that happens on one hand.
I'm not saying it's not an advantage, I'm saying the window where it's a SIGNIFICANT advantage is not enormous. Sure it will totally help you with like early level dragons, like 5-9ish maybe. Other than that it should die pretty damn quickly plus whatever assistance you're getting from bot or mid lane.
The HoG builds into something I want and gives me lots of money right now. If I can get it after a first back or something from assist gold or something I'm a pretty happy camper. First blood on Shyvana = free HoG. That's honestly pretty smart play for most resourceless junglers (like Lee Sin, I tend to be less of a fan of Riven) and plenty others. Everyone can use the health and gold, and since most junglers tend to be melee rar in your face style, the stats are great. CDR, Health, Armor, passive and active are super useful in team fights. Wriggles is something of marginal usefulness that will eventually (if the game goes long enough) end up being sold. The Randuins is also really nice as an armor item because I think Atma's Impaler is a terrible item.
I love when I get a game where the other team has people who think they're going to break the meta by doing stupid shit. I'm Ashe with my buddy playing Caitlyn. Their bot lane is Draven and Caitlyn. I tell my buddy just let me CS and volley harass until I get ahead on items. Few minutes later, I have a couple doran's, and it's go time. Easy kills. Oh, now I have a BF sword and you guys are still splitting CS trying to harass, but you can't because i can out trade you easily at all times? Cool. Oh, my ult is up? You're dead. Oh, Leona's ult is up? You're dead. Too easy. Ended up like 12/2/15 with IE, PD, LW, and BT at 30 minutes before we ended up finishing it.
I don't even care if people try to break the meta in a way that can actually work. Earlier we had a game where the bot lane ran Nautilus/Pantheon versus our Tristana/Sona, and honestly, they were playing it right. They zoned our trist from a lot of CS, and when Naut's ult was up they'd go all in and try for tower dives. The only problem is most of the time I'd just anticipate it and dragon my Shyvana ass down and we'd just double kill them. Of course, unless they ended the game way earlier they also would've lost, because they were trying to be too clever and had no AD carry. There's a reason why the AD carry is the most important person to keep alive and get farmed on your team.
So I was playing a game today, and we were pretty certainly going to win - even though the opposing team was defending well - due to our team comp, teamfighting, and gold lead.
I had a sudden family emergency and had to quit. I'm curious to all you, what is your reaction to something like that? I know I owe these people noting but I felt so bad for quitting like that and leaving my team hanging and changing the game for the opponents. Do you get mad and report or do you take the potential (maybe they still won?) loss in stride? I told them I had to leave suddenly, but I still feel like an ass for ditching my team like that.
If somebody told me they had a family emergency and split I wouldn't report them. Stuff happens, and I would imagine something in their life could be going way worse than me losing a game. For all you know, they pulled it out anyway.
A game takes last priority over all other things. If your mac and cheese is burning on the stove because you forgot, yeah...fuck the game.
Here's a hierarchy of priority:
1. Everything else
2. A game
3. Touching yourself.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins, as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
Hey guys. I've been meaning to do this since PAX East this year, but I am soooo lazy. Apparently today is the day, though.
While there this year, I ended up getting a crap ton of codes for skins! I would normally only get enough for myself, but it was both my wife and I there, so we each got our own, and then some for our friends who couldn't attend.
We used all but one of the skin codes (a Pax Sivir), but I believe I have read that the codes will also work once for our European friends, right? So I figured I'd throw up all the spent ones for my friends across the sea (and also the one non-used Sivir skin).
I'm just going to list them off in this post, and if anyone uses one, would you mind PM-ing me which one you used so I can mark it as used, so that others don't waste their time on it? Thanks : )
Here we go:
The Sivir which hasn't been redeemed for NA servers is: FAYCCQPZ4WA2 - USED
All of the rest have been redeemed on NA but should work on the EU servers:
PAX Sivir:
4CJCNC6ZYYD2 - USED
37FFLWCTH6Y9
K3TCWKEXHR4C
E9XPY4HV729K
Riot Nasus:
77HHCRMTC2G2 - USED
YL7FJWFXJ3XQ - USED
PZMHPFET9G76
JLNFFZQXTDPQ - USED
PAX Jax: (I won him on the Spin-to-Win game at Riots booth!)
CA7LLGVXYYMM4MV4 - USED
I hope someone can use those. Like I said, please PM me the ones you use!
All links used, fyi. I should know, I tried them all.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I love when I get a game where the other team has people who think they're going to break the meta by doing stupid shit. I'm Ashe with my buddy playing Caitlyn. Their bot lane is Draven and Caitlyn. I tell my buddy just let me CS and volley harass until I get ahead on items. Few minutes later, I have a couple doran's, and it's go time. Easy kills. Oh, now I have a BF sword and you guys are still splitting CS trying to harass, but you can't because i can out trade you easily at all times? Cool. Oh, my ult is up? You're dead. Oh, Leona's ult is up? You're dead. Too easy. Ended up like 12/2/15 with IE, PD, LW, and BT at 30 minutes before we ended up finishing it.
I'm confused. You're insulting a Draven/Caitlyn lane for breaking the meta... when you're playing Ashe/Caitlyn?
I love when I get a game where the other team has people who think they're going to break the meta by doing stupid shit. I'm Ashe with my buddy playing Caitlyn. Their bot lane is Draven and Caitlyn. I tell my buddy just let me CS and volley harass until I get ahead on items. Few minutes later, I have a couple doran's, and it's go time. Easy kills. Oh, now I have a BF sword and you guys are still splitting CS trying to harass, but you can't because i can out trade you easily at all times? Cool. Oh, my ult is up? You're dead. Oh, Leona's ult is up? You're dead. Too easy. Ended up like 12/2/15 with IE, PD, LW, and BT at 30 minutes before we ended up finishing it.
I'm confused. You're insulting a Draven/Caitlyn lane for breaking the meta... when you're playing Ashe/Caitlyn?
I think it's a typo, it looks like his buddy was actually leona.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
I love when I get a game where the other team has people who think they're going to break the meta by doing stupid shit. I'm Ashe with my buddy playing Caitlyn. Their bot lane is Draven and Caitlyn. I tell my buddy, "just let me CS and volley harass until I get ahead on items." Few minutes later, I have a couple doran's, and it's go time. Easy kills. Oh, now I have a BF sword and you guys are still splitting CS trying to harass, but you can't because i can out trade you easily at all times? Cool. Oh, my ult is up? You're dead. Oh, Leona's ult is up? You're dead. Too easy. Ended up like 12/2/15 with IE, PD, LW, and BT at 30 minutes before we ended up finishing it.
it's clearer when you add some well-placed quotation marks
I love when I get a game where the other team has people who think they're going to break the meta by doing stupid shit. I'm Ashe with my buddy playing Caitlyn. Their bot lane is Draven and Caitlyn. I tell my buddy just let me CS and volley harass until I get ahead on items. Few minutes later, I have a couple doran's, and it's go time. Easy kills. Oh, now I have a BF sword and you guys are still splitting CS trying to harass, but you can't because i can out trade you easily at all times? Cool. Oh, my ult is up? You're dead. Oh, Leona's ult is up? You're dead. Too easy. Ended up like 12/2/15 with IE, PD, LW, and BT at 30 minutes before we ended up finishing it.
I'm confused. You're insulting a Draven/Caitlyn lane for breaking the meta... when you're playing Ashe/Caitlyn?
I derped. My support was Leona. I said Leona later in the post, but yeah, mistyped the first time.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
You weren't the 1/11 Ashe. No player who can carry from 1/11 ends up being 1/11 and down 100+ CS in the first place.
That, and, you know, not ever surrendering is a complete failure at understanding what "sunk cost" means as well as actively shitty to your teammates. If the MM is working properly (LOL), you have a 50/50 chance of a win with a fresh game, and you sure as fuck don't have a 50% chance when down by that much, so when you draw shit out based on hail mary bullshit, you're not playing the long term. If it were a paid tournament, for example, I'd gamble on the 5% chance because there is no long term, but that's simply not the case with typical ranked or normal games. That sort of thinking is why casinos do so well.
If surrender votes were a simple majority to pass, that'd be one thing, but you're effectively blackmailing your teammates by being an asshole minority, because they are only staying to avoid sanction, not because they would do so if not coerced.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
He scales especially well compared to....who?
'better than Ashe' I suppose. But I wouldn't say he's in the top half of AD carry scaling.
I play a lot of ARAB (All-Random/All-Bot) in Dominion. What is your all time favorite champ to get thrown your way in those games? For me it is Nunu. Not the strongest champ, but nothing beats the thrill of a fully executed ult from one of those lower or upper bushes. Oh, and danm can that yeti harrass!
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Gets beaten up by alot of top laners these days and his jungle is solid enough. Give him some AS and 3 or so levels of E (personally I rush Wit's End) and he clears really quick.
I play a lot of ARAB (All-Random/All-Bot) in Dominion. What is your all time favorite champ to get thrown your way in those games? For me it is Nunu. Not the strongest champ, but nothing beats the thrill of a fully executed ult from one of those lower or upper bushes. Oh, and danm can that yeti harrass!
In any ARAM or ARAB it's Katarina.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I play a lot of ARAB (All-Random/All-Bot) in Dominion. What is your all time favorite champ to get thrown your way in those games? For me it is Nunu. Not the strongest champ, but nothing beats the thrill of a fully executed ult from one of those lower or upper bushes. Oh, and danm can that yeti harrass!
Probably Heimer, because rockets are bullshit. Fiddles is strong, but I don't like to play him so meh.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
You weren't the 1/11 Ashe. No player who can carry from 1/11 ends up being 1/11 and down 100+ CS in the first place.
That, and, you know, not ever surrendering is a complete failure at understanding what "sunk cost" means as well as actively shitty to your teammates. If the MM is working properly (LOL), you have a 50/50 chance of a win with a fresh game, and you sure as fuck don't have a 50% chance when down by that much, so when you draw shit out based on hail mary bullshit, you're not playing the long term. If it were a paid tournament, for example, I'd gamble on the 5% chance because there is no long term, but that's simply not the case with typical ranked or normal games. That sort of thinking is why casinos do so well.
If surrender votes were a simple majority to pass, that'd be one thing, but you're effectively blackmailing your teammates by being an asshole minority, because they are only staying to avoid sanction, not because they would do so if not coerced.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
Yeah we got trolled so hard last night. It also didn't help at 1AM when Verizon killed my interwebs until the stroke of 1:10. At least I made it back and didn't get a leave. That Ashe did whatever he wanted instead of staying away from the Ez/Blitz killlane like I told him. Between the mobility they had and their Blitz being good, there was no way I could do anything as Soraka. It didn't matter I wasted all that money on wards and he could see them right there, he'd still walk right into them. That third game with those guys you had in your list was great fun, what with the guy getting AFK randomed to Cass and then trying to declare mid, then failing to be useful to you at all up top.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
You weren't the 1/11 Ashe. No player who can carry from 1/11 ends up being 1/11 and down 100+ CS in the first place.
That, and, you know, not ever surrendering is a complete failure at understanding what "sunk cost" means as well as actively shitty to your teammates. If the MM is working properly (LOL), you have a 50/50 chance of a win with a fresh game, and you sure as fuck don't have a 50% chance when down by that much, so when you draw shit out based on hail mary bullshit, you're not playing the long term. If it were a paid tournament, for example, I'd gamble on the 5% chance because there is no long term, but that's simply not the case with typical ranked or normal games. That sort of thinking is why casinos do so well.
If surrender votes were a simple majority to pass, that'd be one thing, but you're effectively blackmailing your teammates by being an asshole minority, because they are only staying to avoid sanction, not because they would do so if not coerced.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
On the point of sunk costs:
You're not throwing good money after bad. The game costs nothing and you can still win. I mean, we can go into some sort of utility analysis but if we're going to do that then we would have to mention a lot of factors and really the only time it will make sense to surrender is if you're actively not having fun. But why fucking play the game at all if you're just actively not having fun any time you lose hard?
I mean, i suppose we could say "surrendering a game doesn't make me a worse player and such, as my next games are going to be easier i will eventually make up the deficit in losses i create by surrendering" but it actually does if you're doing this consistently
On the point of Ezreal:
Ezreal scales terrible into the lategame compared to Ashe. The damage on Trueshot is meh except as an opener(or a snipe). Ezreal has to use abilities and keep using abilities in order to keep his steroid running.
Ashe has a 3 second stun with AoE slow [and another on demand AoE slow]. A well placed arrow can win the fight before it starts and in the long game, that 100 CS deficit and 1/11 goes away once Ashe picks up IE/PD/LW. Which she will eventually.
I mean i can understand surrendering if they just aced you and are pushing and will take your nexus before you respawn and you haven't even breached their base turrets. OK that makes sense, but i kinda figured that wasn't what you were talking about.
Take WW top cause his jungle sucks ass now. No ganks until 6, single target only with slow clears, good duelist but that's about it. Builds just w/e works, Spirit Visage (or w/e the bonus heals armor is) and triforce, why not.
Ezreal with an iEdge/pd/lw still scales better than Ashe. She makes up for it with her ult being hard CC while ezreal has steroids, buffs/debuffs, and mobility.
The idea that Ezreal doesn't scale well into endgame is silly.
Honestly, if you vote not to surrender while 1/11, and the 22/2 Ezreal you fed inevitably wins in the 4v5 (we had a DC as well), as he was predestined to do by divine providence (aka basic fucking logic and understanding of LOL mechanics), you should commit suicide IRL. Way to waste my time, asshole.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
You weren't the 1/11 Ashe. No player who can carry from 1/11 ends up being 1/11 and down 100+ CS in the first place.
That, and, you know, not ever surrendering is a complete failure at understanding what "sunk cost" means as well as actively shitty to your teammates. If the MM is working properly (LOL), you have a 50/50 chance of a win with a fresh game, and you sure as fuck don't have a 50% chance when down by that much, so when you draw shit out based on hail mary bullshit, you're not playing the long term. If it were a paid tournament, for example, I'd gamble on the 5% chance because there is no long term, but that's simply not the case with typical ranked or normal games. That sort of thinking is why casinos do so well.
If surrender votes were a simple majority to pass, that'd be one thing, but you're effectively blackmailing your teammates by being an asshole minority, because they are only staying to avoid sanction, not because they would do so if not coerced.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
On the point of sunk costs:
You're not throwing good money after bad. The game costs nothing and you can still win. I mean, we can go into some sort of utility analysis but if we're going to do that then we would have to mention a lot of factors and really the only time it will make sense to surrender is if you're actively not having fun. But why fucking play the game at all if you're just actively not having fun any time you lose hard?
I mean, i suppose we could say "surrendering a game doesn't make me a worse player and such, as my next games are going to be easier i will eventually make up the deficit in losses i create by surrendering" but it actually does if you're doing this consistently
Extending a game almost certainly lost by 20 minutes costs 20 minutes of a fresh game, and that's a huge sacrifice. And yes, I, like pretty much every LOL player in existence, find close games more fun than waste of time bullshit where their support outdamages our AD carry. It's nice that you apparently don't mind those games, but when it's 3/2 to surrender, well, you're both in the
To use a poker analogy, you'll lose due to folding bad hands eventually simply by being the small / big blind, but no pro player is going to say, "Fuck it, go all in on 2/7 unsuited every game."
On the point of Ezreal:
Ezreal scales terrible into the lategame compared to Ashe. The damage on Trueshot is meh except as an opener(or a snipe). Ezreal has to use abilities and keep using abilities in order to keep his steroid running.
You say this like a 40% attack speed debuff on the enemy carry is a burden rather than a blessing. Ditto for his 5 second flash. Also, see Talith's post.
Ashe has a 3 second stun with AoE slow [and another on demand AoE slow]. A well placed arrow can win the fight before it starts and in the long game, that 100 CS deficit and 1/11 goes away once Ashe picks up IE/PD/LW. Which she will eventually.
You buy items with gold, and if you are 1/11 and 100 CS, you don't have gold. Besides, by being 1/11 you've fucked everyone else over too, because as WW, who I happened to be, I can no longer 1v1 Ez, and lose jungle / objective control at the same time, so it's not just that she's useless, it's that she has made everyone else less useful at the same time. LOL, unlike many team games, can be lost by one player / lane.
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I guess you could but I haven't ever gotten that far into a game with her. It would be like the last thing ever and I'd have to really not want the health from Frozen Mallet.
As for Wukong, Metagoleming isn't the worst thing ever on him. He totally needs Wriggles though he has garbage sustain.
Eh, I used to carry it around a lot on Lee Sin because it's like OH FREE WARD. Except I always carry bonus wards and I don't NEED anything on the Wriggles. The only thing you're really missing on it is the proc and honestly it's not a big deal for clearing. If you NEED it to get away with the buff, you're either not warding enough/watching the map for the enemy jungler or you're doing it too risky which is something someone WILL punish you for eventually. All good junglers will know what the timers are and base their plans around it. Those plans can be changed, but you should be able to see those plans change via warding or where they're ganking on the map. This is not a good habit. The only thing I really miss about it is early level dragon and baroning.
I suppose this is true but if you're doing it this way you're absolutely doing it wrong. Riven is a monster ganker and invader. If you want to farm your own jungle, then you need to play a different game, since that's not a niche that's valuable at all in a jungler. Even if you're keeping up in CS, I'm pretty sure the value per CS is much lower, and it really just means your lanes are bad. You shouldn't be keeping up with the lanes in farm. It means you're pretty much not ganking at all ever and there's absolutely no jungler in the game where that's an acceptable plan.
Except like Jungle Ezreal.
Well, Wriggles doesn't change how many other wards you can carry, I view it less as "ZOMG FREE WARD!" and more as a GP/10 item that means you get the same coverage with less purchased wards, otherwise you start thinking "free ward" and then you think "wriggles = no buying wards again" and then you have bad map coverage because you only ever have one ward up. Its essentially a GP/10 item (so long as you use it).
It is a huge advantage on dragon, it really helps on Shyv to be able to make a strong level 6-8 gank on bot lane (DRAGON FORM HOOOOOOOOOOO) and try to turn that into a dragon clear. Not necessary, just nice. Same with blue and red, you don't need it to take or steal, but faster = better and Wriggles is absolutely faster.
It is, however, still 1600 GP. I like it, but it isn't cheap and you do end up paying alot of gold for a very wide variety of stats. I like it, I don't think its mandatory on Shyv, but I do think its a solid pick.
I am confused with why you'd go early HoG over Wriggles first. Do you try to get HoG on your first clear to get early GP/10? Wriggles and HoG are both going to "pay off" in gold, one in wards other in straight income. If you were rushing some other item I could understand why you wouldn't want Wriggles, its 1600 gold that could go towards (INSERT BADASS ITEM YOU WANT), but if you go HoG first what are you building for instead?
I'm not saying it's not an advantage, I'm saying the window where it's a SIGNIFICANT advantage is not enormous. Sure it will totally help you with like early level dragons, like 5-9ish maybe. Other than that it should die pretty damn quickly plus whatever assistance you're getting from bot or mid lane.
The HoG builds into something I want and gives me lots of money right now. If I can get it after a first back or something from assist gold or something I'm a pretty happy camper. First blood on Shyvana = free HoG. That's honestly pretty smart play for most resourceless junglers (like Lee Sin, I tend to be less of a fan of Riven) and plenty others. Everyone can use the health and gold, and since most junglers tend to be melee rar in your face style, the stats are great. CDR, Health, Armor, passive and active are super useful in team fights. Wriggles is something of marginal usefulness that will eventually (if the game goes long enough) end up being sold. The Randuins is also really nice as an armor item because I think Atma's Impaler is a terrible item.
So many goddamn children playing
I don't even care if people try to break the meta in a way that can actually work. Earlier we had a game where the bot lane ran Nautilus/Pantheon versus our Tristana/Sona, and honestly, they were playing it right. They zoned our trist from a lot of CS, and when Naut's ult was up they'd go all in and try for tower dives. The only problem is most of the time I'd just anticipate it and dragon my Shyvana ass down and we'd just double kill them. Of course, unless they ended the game way earlier they also would've lost, because they were trying to be too clever and had no AD carry. There's a reason why the AD carry is the most important person to keep alive and get farmed on your team.
I had a sudden family emergency and had to quit. I'm curious to all you, what is your reaction to something like that? I know I owe these people noting but I felt so bad for quitting like that and leaving my team hanging and changing the game for the opponents. Do you get mad and report or do you take the potential (maybe they still won?) loss in stride? I told them I had to leave suddenly, but I still feel like an ass for ditching my team like that.
Why are all of Cho's guides now jungle guides?
Here's a hierarchy of priority:
1. Everything else
2. A game
3. Touching yourself.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
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I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
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Technically, "Everything else" infers that 2 and 3 aren't included.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
I hope Simon is around to post the Fizban caption, because it totally applies right now. Seriously.
I hate that shit.
I hate that shit so God damn much.
All links used, fyi. I should know, I tried them all.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
I still crack up in the car if this song comes on.
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I've been behind 10 kills and 6 towers. As in they had killed top, mid 2, and 3 bottom, and still carried games to a win. Never surrender. Especially to Ezreal
Nunu Support is the most fun thing ever
You throw a snowball at them and they DIE
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I'm confused. You're insulting a Draven/Caitlyn lane for breaking the meta... when you're playing Ashe/Caitlyn?
I think it's a typo, it looks like his buddy was actually leona.
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it's clearer when you add some well-placed quotation marks
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I derped. My support was Leona. I said Leona later in the post, but yeah, mistyped the first time.
You weren't the 1/11 Ashe. No player who can carry from 1/11 ends up being 1/11 and down 100+ CS in the first place.
That, and, you know, not ever surrendering is a complete failure at understanding what "sunk cost" means as well as actively shitty to your teammates. If the MM is working properly (LOL), you have a 50/50 chance of a win with a fresh game, and you sure as fuck don't have a 50% chance when down by that much, so when you draw shit out based on hail mary bullshit, you're not playing the long term. If it were a paid tournament, for example, I'd gamble on the 5% chance because there is no long term, but that's simply not the case with typical ranked or normal games. That sort of thinking is why casinos do so well.
If surrender votes were a simple majority to pass, that'd be one thing, but you're effectively blackmailing your teammates by being an asshole minority, because they are only staying to avoid sanction, not because they would do so if not coerced.
P.S. "Esp. against Ezreal" makes no sense. Ezreal scales incredibly well into the late game, including odd small details like his Trueshot not being interuptable.
He scales especially well compared to....who?
'better than Ashe' I suppose. But I wouldn't say he's in the top half of AD carry scaling.
In any ARAM or ARAB it's Katarina.
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He's one of my favorite champs because like, Shyvanna, his mechanics reward aggression.
The only thing I know how to do is aggress.
I think I'm a pretty nice guy though :c
Yeah we got trolled so hard last night. It also didn't help at 1AM when Verizon killed my interwebs until the stroke of 1:10. At least I made it back and didn't get a leave. That Ashe did whatever he wanted instead of staying away from the Ez/Blitz killlane like I told him. Between the mobility they had and their Blitz being good, there was no way I could do anything as Soraka. It didn't matter I wasted all that money on wards and he could see them right there, he'd still walk right into them. That third game with those guys you had in your list was great fun, what with the guy getting AFK randomed to Cass and then trying to declare mid, then failing to be useful to you at all up top.
At least we won the first game decisively.
On the point of sunk costs:
You're not throwing good money after bad. The game costs nothing and you can still win. I mean, we can go into some sort of utility analysis but if we're going to do that then we would have to mention a lot of factors and really the only time it will make sense to surrender is if you're actively not having fun. But why fucking play the game at all if you're just actively not having fun any time you lose hard?
I mean, i suppose we could say "surrendering a game doesn't make me a worse player and such, as my next games are going to be easier i will eventually make up the deficit in losses i create by surrendering" but it actually does if you're doing this consistently
On the point of Ezreal:
Ezreal scales terrible into the lategame compared to Ashe. The damage on Trueshot is meh except as an opener(or a snipe). Ezreal has to use abilities and keep using abilities in order to keep his steroid running.
Ashe has a 3 second stun with AoE slow [and another on demand AoE slow]. A well placed arrow can win the fight before it starts and in the long game, that 100 CS deficit and 1/11 goes away once Ashe picks up IE/PD/LW. Which she will eventually.
I mean i can understand surrendering if they just aced you and are pushing and will take your nexus before you respawn and you haven't even breached their base turrets. OK that makes sense, but i kinda figured that wasn't what you were talking about.
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The idea that Ezreal doesn't scale well into endgame is silly.
Extending a game almost certainly lost by 20 minutes costs 20 minutes of a fresh game, and that's a huge sacrifice. And yes, I, like pretty much every LOL player in existence, find close games more fun than waste of time bullshit where their support outdamages our AD carry. It's nice that you apparently don't mind those games, but when it's 3/2 to surrender, well, you're both in the
To use a poker analogy, you'll lose due to folding bad hands eventually simply by being the small / big blind, but no pro player is going to say, "Fuck it, go all in on 2/7 unsuited every game."
You say this like a 40% attack speed debuff on the enemy carry is a burden rather than a blessing. Ditto for his 5 second flash. Also, see Talith's post.
You buy items with gold, and if you are 1/11 and 100 CS, you don't have gold. Besides, by being 1/11 you've fucked everyone else over too, because as WW, who I happened to be, I can no longer 1v1 Ez, and lose jungle / objective control at the same time, so it's not just that she's useless, it's that she has made everyone else less useful at the same time. LOL, unlike many team games, can be lost by one player / lane.