I would be very surprised if the names of the Unseen were in any way restricted, those were definitely not the names used in Robotech / Macross, and I doubt any of the other designs used the same names. It wouldn't feel like Battletech without those designs showing up, even if they have to look different because of copyright issues that may or may not have been resolved.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I would be very surprised if the names of the Unseen were in any way restricted, those were definitely not the names used in Robotech / Macross, and I doubt any of the other designs used the same names. It wouldn't feel like Battletech without those designs showing up, even if they have to look different because of copyright issues that may or may not have been resolved.
Common sense would agree, but common sense hasn't had much to do with and of this bullshit regarding the Unseen. This stuff has been in contention for, geez, 20 years? Plenty long enough that two sides should've come to a real agreement a long, long time ago. If nothing else, the original designs should've been scrapped entirely and retconned; the Battletech fiction is hardly the most solid work anyway.
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
edit-
Actually I took a look at a few of the Unseen and you know what? I think they can remain Unseen. Eeesh.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
Didn't they though?
Is time a gift or punishment?
0
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
I would be very surprised if the names of the Unseen were in any way restricted, those were definitely not the names used in Robotech / Macross, and I doubt any of the other designs used the same names. It wouldn't feel like Battletech without those designs showing up, even if they have to look different because of copyright issues that may or may not have been resolved.
Common sense would agree, but common sense hasn't had much to do with and of this bullshit regarding the Unseen. This stuff has been in contention for, geez, 20 years? Plenty long enough that two sides should've come to a real agreement a long, long time ago. If nothing else, the original designs should've been scrapped entirely and retconned; the Battletech fiction is hardly the most solid work anyway.
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
Harmony Gold has lots more money than any BT rights holder has or wants to spend litigating an issue that is ultimately irrelevant for the future operations of the brand. HG sees this as essential for keeping its robotexh IP valuable.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
Didn't they though?
Well like I said I am not too familiar, but from what I've read it sounds like they did. Although it took them until 2003 (or maybe '05?) to do it.
A special TRO release, this title officially addressed the Unseen in a way that allowed their graphical use back into publication. FanPro chose to re-commission artwork for each of the affected BattleMechs, with the in-character explanation that the designs had been modernized (and, hence, been brought back into the spotlight with a different outer appearance). In this fashion, the book is a belated companion to the Technical Readout: 3025 Revised.
Which if that is the case then there is no reason they cannot use the Unseen as they are not longer, uh, Unseen-able.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
A special TRO release, this title officially addressed the Unseen in a way that allowed their graphical use back into publication. FanPro chose to re-commission artwork for each of the affected BattleMechs, with the in-character explanation that the designs had been modernized (and, hence, been brought back into the spotlight with a different outer appearance). In this fashion, the book is a belated companion to the Technical Readout: 3025 Revised.
Which if that is the case then there is no reason they cannot use the Unseen as they are not longer, uh, Unseen-able.
And thus the "WTF?" about this whole business. They shouldn't have copied designs from Macross, but they did. When the deal for using those designs fell through, they should've redesigned immediately instead of haggling. And then years and years later, they finally do go through with the redesign... but somehow there's still an issue with the Unseen almost 10 years after the redesign? Buh?
It's so completely... goofy.
Though if MWO comes through clean with its redesigns, I certainly won't care any more about this whole Unseen business. In fact, I'm genuinely looking forward to see what they come up with; every redesign so far has been pure sex.
The 3039 book replaced 3025 and 3026. Also, the Inner Sphere half of the 3050 Upgrade book would be available as well.
3039 added in some new mechs and cleaned up the art (same with the 3050 upgrade compared to old FASA 3050) in order for there to be a good lineup of 3rd succession war era mechs without any unseen.
RiemannLives on
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Indeed and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse over this, but man you gotta figure paying an artist to redesign a handful of Mechs would have been infinitely cheaper than paying a lawyer (or more than likely a team of).
Okay, okay. Whew, let me see here.
2003 they redesign all the Unseen.
2009 Catalyst Game Labs get the rights to use the original Unseen. Meaning they probably spent money (a lot of) to gain the rights to use something that was already redesigned six years prior.
Then not long after that it turns out that, oops, they do not have the rights.
What is it about this that makes people waste so much good money for, honestly, zero gain? Especially now?
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Though if MWO comes through clean with its redesigns, I certainly won't care any more about this whole Unseen business. In fact, I'm genuinely looking forward to see what they come up with; every redesign so far has been pure sex.
Hell yes. I'm in love with the Centurion all over again. I especially like how fd designs mech limbs that don't have any equipment in them as basically huge shields, since that's really all they are at that point.
Though if MWO comes through clean with its redesigns, I certainly won't care any more about this whole Unseen business. In fact, I'm genuinely looking forward to see what they come up with; every redesign so far has been pure sex.
Hell yes. I'm in love with the Centurion all over again. I especially like how fd designs mech limbs that don't have any equipment in them as basically huge shields, since that's really all they are at that point.
Having the ability to move your arms independent of your torso twist means you'll finally be able to use a "shield" arm and a weapon mounted on the opposite arm to direct fire if not on the attacking enemy, but at least near, is a great development in my eyes. Something like this:
The options for the enemy is to either back-pedal which would leave you open to circle around to the right, walk straight ahead across your line of fire or forward to his left to get our of your left arms field of fire and try to attack from the rear (but then you'd just torso-twist and circle to the right to keep the left weapon training on him). All bad news for Mr Red there
Heh yeah. Heck, with independant torso and arm aiming, and being able to achieve missile lock without needing to aim at the target, you'll be able to engage three seperate enemy mechs at one time. Not very effectively I'd bet, but it's still awesome.
Is time a gift or punishment?
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Heh yeah. Heck, with independant torso and arm aiming, and being able to achieve missile lock without needing to aim at the target, you'll be able to engage three seperate enemy mechs at one time. Not very effectively I'd bet, but it's still awesome.
I think I need to change my pants now. :oops:
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Heh yeah. Heck, with independant torso and arm aiming, and being able to achieve missile lock without needing to aim at the target, you'll be able to engage three seperate enemy mechs at one time. Not very effectively I'd bet, but it's still awesome.
The only unfortunate aspect is you won't be able to pull off the "arms pointing wide, firing in three random directions while a huge explosion occurs behind you" money shot
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
edit-
Actually I took a look at a few of the Unseen and you know what? I think they can remain Unseen. Eeesh.
What do you mean? the Warhammer is as iconic as the Timber wolf
This is the one I want to drive if I can't have a Timber wolf/Stormcrow/Mad dog.
Fingers crossed as it was in the first official trailer fighting a atlas
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
The 3039 book replaced 3025 and 3026. Also, the Inner Sphere half of the 3050 Upgrade book would be available as well.
3039 added in some new mechs and cleaned up the art (same with the 3050 upgrade compared to old FASA 3050) in order for there to be a good lineup of 3rd succession war era mechs without any unseen.
Well, as far as 'mechs go, TRO3039 has:
-the non-Unseen stuff from 3025
-the Star League stuff from TRO2750 (really, the downgraded versions from 3025 Revised)
-the Project Phoenix redesigns of the Unseen.
There's no precedent yet for them using either of the latter two, so I stuck with the first category. Though yes, I was going down the original TRO3025 lineup for reference when I wrote the post.
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
edit-
Actually I took a look at a few of the Unseen and you know what? I think they can remain Unseen. Eeesh.
What do you mean? the Warhammer is as iconic as the Timber wolf
This is the one I want to drive if I can't have a Timber wolf/Stormcrow/Mad dog.
Fingers crossed as it was in the first official trailer fighting a atlas
The game from that trailer is long dead.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel the same way if a few of my favorites, say the Mad Cat or Vulture (I'm in an IS kind of mood today), were part of that group, but guess what, they're not. Which is probably why I like them in part (since I knew about Macross before I knew about BT). Then again, I don't like the earliest style of either two Mechs designs.
If they were interested in an efficient solution, that would be it, of course. Clearly they aren't, and I know some of the Unseen are iconic. At the same time, FASA and company have made more than a few bad decisions in the last few years...like the whole land air mech concept.
Synthesis on
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Haha, I never played BT classic, but I do remember that even the books described the land-air mechs as an enormous failure. I think there was one time they achieved anything, and even that was a one-time meaningless victory which only happened because nobody expected the winning side to actually use a land-air mech, much less have somebody crazy enough to land one on a real mech.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel the same way if a few of my favorites, say the Mad Cat or Vulture (I'm in an IS kind of mood today), were part of that group, but guess what, they're not. Which is probably why I like them in part (since I knew about Macross before I knew about BT). Then again, I don't like the earliest style of either two Mechs designs.
If they were interested in an efficient solution, that would be it, of course. Clearly they aren't, and I know some of the Unseen are iconic. At the same time, FASA and company have made more than a few bad decisions in the last few years...like the whole land air mech concept.
LAMs were buried pretty fast, since it suffered serious issues with transformation, Take off and Land. Further, they weren't exactly spectacular as either planes or mechs.
By contrast, The warhammer, marauder and pheonix hawk have been long standing favorites not only of the fans but also of the writers for decades. Not including them is like having a super bowl party without beer.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel the same way if a few of my favorites, say the Mad Cat or Vulture (I'm in an IS kind of mood today), were part of that group, but guess what, they're not. Which is probably why I like them in part (since I knew about Macross before I knew about BT). Then again, I don't like the earliest style of either two Mechs designs.
If they were interested in an efficient solution, that would be it, of course. Clearly they aren't, and I know some of the Unseen are iconic. At the same time, FASA and company have made more than a few bad decisions in the last few years...like the whole land air mech concept.
LAMs were buried pretty fast, since it suffered serious issues with transformation, Take off and Land. Further, they weren't exactly spectacular as either planes or mechs.
By contrast, The warhammer, marauder and pheonix hawk have been long standing favorites not only of the fans but also of the writers for decades. Changing them is like having a superbowl party with a different brand of beer.
Fixed that for you. Seriously though--especially given that the previous brand of beer was apparently infringing on copyright, this might be the best option for all.
Synthesis on
0
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
Haha, I never played BT classic, but I do remember that even the books described the land-air mechs as an enormous failure. I think there was one time they achieved anything, and even that was a one-time meaningless victory which only happened because nobody expected the winning side to actually use a land-air mech, much less have somebody crazy enough to land one on a real mech.
Yeah, but a lot of that is explaining why they stopped using them.
Haha, I never played BT classic, but I do remember that even the books described the land-air mechs as an enormous failure. I think there was one time they achieved anything, and even that was a one-time meaningless victory which only happened because nobody expected the winning side to actually use a land-air mech, much less have somebody crazy enough to land one on a real mech.
Yeah, but a lot of that is explaining why they stopped using them.
At the end of the day, it was almost certainly someone at FASA watching Macross and going "Shit, that's really cool! We want those! Get someone on the line and bribe them!"
They did the opposite of thinking it through. Because, to their credit, BT actually follows certain logic and offers rational explanations for things. Had they done so, they would have realized that Macross actually does something similar, with an entirely different type of warfare (basically: jet aircraft that can fire more than a kilometer away) that does not resemble BT at all.
If that wasn't what happened, they certainly tried hard to make it look like that's what happened.
LAM were fantastic harassers in hybrid mode, however. Nothing like having a 45 tonner that can move faster than a Locust (18 hexes! 16, if you need to take off from the ground and weren't in the air already. Even with only 5 jumping, you'd be moving 15 hexes as well, which is way faster than nearly any light 'Mech of that era) and have an inherent +4 to-hit penalty against them by ground units, in addition to hexes moved. Every other round, you can be at point-blank range and be nigh unhittable the entire time (fly in, unload with short range weaponry, fly out), while your weapons only required a 7-9 on 2d6 to hit.
Not sad to see them go, but they could be pretty broken. We banned playing LAMs pretty early on, even before they were phased out.
Hahnsoo1 on
0
grouch993Both a man and a numberRegistered Userregular
Aerotech has always been sort of a mess. They could cross many map grids in one turn which made targeting a pain. LAMs were similar.
aerotech, which no longer exists as a separate game, is no longer such a mess.
With their Total War series Catalyst really cleaned things up. Now all the various Xtech games (battletech, citytech, aerotech, battlespace, battleforce etc...) are in the main series of rulebooks (currently 3 hardbacks + Maximum Tech with the last - Interstellar Operations - underway)
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
Technically speaking Quads carry less space for armaments since the "arms" have to have foot and leg actuators that could be removed if they were actual arms. And also, Quads need some of the higher level rules to really shine, such as going Hull Down and being allowed to mount 360 degree turrets.
"Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
Technically speaking Quads carry less space for armaments since the "arms" have to have foot and leg actuators that could be removed if they were actual arms. And also, Quads need some of the higher level rules to really shine, such as going Hull Down and being allowed to mount 360 degree turrets.
So you are talking about weapons mounted between the legs - "cock lasers" :winky:
Anyways, I thought you could put more "on" the weapon plattform because the area to put on things could be bigger. It is more stabilized by the 4 legs.
Edit: As a mech designer I would make it so, that the head of mech would be situated between the legs and the 4 legs themself would act like 4 shields. I then would put all the weapons on top.
Gameplaywise 360 degree auto-turrents wouldn't be so interesting I assume - then controlling the whole body / arms of a bipedal Mech in order to aim.
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
Technically speaking Quads carry less space for armaments since the "arms" have to have foot and leg actuators that could be removed if they were actual arms. And also, Quads need some of the higher level rules to really shine, such as going Hull Down and being allowed to mount 360 degree turrets.
So you are talking about weapons mounted between the legs - "cock lasers" :winky:
I wish I could hate you to death.
"Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."
Sorry about that. So what exactly does "Hull Down" mean? The niche tech and rules of the MW universe fascinate me. I think I will read up on some things on (various) Wikis.
I wonder why quads are not prominent in the MW universe. (to many legs to replace, difficult to maintain ?) I would like to control a spider of doom or something similar.
Technically speaking Quads carry less space for armaments since the "arms" have to have foot and leg actuators that could be removed if they were actual arms. And also, Quads need some of the higher level rules to really shine, such as going Hull Down and being allowed to mount 360 degree turrets.
So you are talking about weapons mounted between the legs - "cock lasers" :winky:
With the quality of the MWO designs so far, I'd for the first time look forward to redesigns of the unseen. I can't wait to see what he'd do with an Archer.
Sorry about that. So what exactly does "Hull Down" mean? The niche tech and rules of the MW universe fascinate me. I think I will read up on some things on (various) Wikis.
In the board game there are elevations. Mechs were 2 elevations tall, so standing behind a level 1 hill provided a cover bonus from incoming fire (and in some cases restricted the potential landing hit areas - which was A Bad Thing. An unobstructed hit rolled 2 six sided dice to determine hit location and a headshot was on 12. If the modified upper body table was used, you rolled one six sider for hit location and head was a six. Lots of decapitated mechs).
As far as I remember (and I may be rusty) Quad mechs were also considered to be 2 elevations but could take a special action called going Hull Down in a cratered area for more defensive positioning. I don't remember what the adjusted hit locations were but I recall them not being instant death.
Arms and legs were also important for firing arcs. A regular bipedal mech could fire anything in its arms and torso, legs or head forward in a predetermined arc (I'm not sure what the exact angle was) and anything in an arm slot in a wide angle to the side (no crossover shots to the other side).
Quad mechs gave up the ability to fire in those arm arcs altogether, since their arms were now legs. As a giveback they could mount a top turret which had a 360 degree arc but was restricted in weapon type based off the tonnage of the mech. Bigger mechs mount bigger turrets.
"Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."
Sorry about that. So what exactly does "Hull Down" mean? The niche tech and rules of the MW universe fascinate me. I think I will read up on some things on (various) Wikis.
In the board game there are elevations. Mechs were 2 elevations tall, so standing behind a level 1 hill provided a cover bonus from incoming fire (and in some cases restricted the potential landing hit areas - which was A Bad Thing. An unobstructed hit rolled 2 six sided dice to determine hit location and a headshot was on 12. If the modified upper body table was used, you rolled one six sider for hit location and head was a six. Lots of decapitated mechs).
As far as I remember (and I may be rusty) Quad mechs were also considered to be 2 elevations but could take a special action called going Hull Down in a cratered area for more defensive positioning. I don't remember what the adjusted hit locations were but I recall them not being instant death.
Arms and legs were also important for firing arcs. A regular bipedal mech could fire anything in its arms and torso, legs or head forward in a predetermined arc (I'm not sure what the exact angle was) and anything in an arm slot in a wide angle to the side (no crossover shots to the other side).
Quad mechs gave up the ability to fire in those arm arcs altogether, since their arms were now legs. As a giveback they could mount a top turret which had a 360 degree arc but was restricted in weapon type based off the tonnage of the mech. Bigger mechs mount bigger turrets.
Note that from the videos (as well as perhaps other sources *ahem*) MWO has included the greater utility of having weapons in arms (by having them be easier to aim / have a wider field of fire).
side note: Total War (catalyst Battletech) fixed the problem with using cover. Now if you are a mech behind a hill or building you still use the normal hit table (front / rear, right or left as needed) and if you roll legs then the shot is blocked by the cover.
In the board game there are elevations. Mechs were 2 elevations tall, so standing behind a level 1 hill provided a cover bonus from incoming fire (and in some cases restricted the potential landing hit areas - which was A Bad Thing. An unobstructed hit rolled 2 six sided dice to determine hit location and a headshot was on 12. If the modified upper body table was used, you rolled one six sider for hit location and head was a six. Lots of decapitated mechs).
So enemy fire magically became more accurate when you were in cover? Brilliant!
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
In the board game there are elevations. Mechs were 2 elevations tall, so standing behind a level 1 hill provided a cover bonus from incoming fire (and in some cases restricted the potential landing hit areas - which was A Bad Thing. An unobstructed hit rolled 2 six sided dice to determine hit location and a headshot was on 12. If the modified upper body table was used, you rolled one six sider for hit location and head was a six. Lots of decapitated mechs).
So enemy fire magically became more accurate when you were in cover? Brilliant!
There were a set of circumstances that had to be met in order to use the upper body table and a good pilot could avoid getting into them but there were times where you would intentionally accept the risk in order to make more shots miss. In TT rules partial cover gave enemies a +4 penalty to the target hit number, and attacks were rolled on 2D6. At medium and long ranges this gave base to hit numbers of 10 and 12 respectively, before any movement, heat or misc modifiers. Even at short ranges it could be an acceptable risk if you knew your opponent wasn't carrying anything that could clean out the head in a single hit (12 damage or more - and there were originally only two weapons that could do this, the Gauss Rifle and AC/20. As rules expanded more weapons got above that threshold and life in the trenches became more difficult)
"Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."
Posts
And also the best mechs in the game.
Common sense would agree, but common sense hasn't had much to do with and of this bullshit regarding the Unseen. This stuff has been in contention for, geez, 20 years? Plenty long enough that two sides should've come to a real agreement a long, long time ago. If nothing else, the original designs should've been scrapped entirely and retconned; the Battletech fiction is hardly the most solid work anyway.
It's pretty bizarre that the Unseen have been that way longer than they were "Seen"; some redesigning in the first couple of years could've avoided all of this and everybody would simply remember the newer designs as "classic" mechs.
I'm not to familiar with Battletech and the like, but when I first heard about the Unseen this has been my main thought. I mean it it just seems obvious to me that if you can't use a particular design then, y'know, re-design it. Or tweak the existing design enough to avoid lawsuit.
edit-
Actually I took a look at a few of the Unseen and you know what? I think they can remain Unseen. Eeesh.
Didn't they though?
Harmony Gold has lots more money than any BT rights holder has or wants to spend litigating an issue that is ultimately irrelevant for the future operations of the brand. HG sees this as essential for keeping its robotexh IP valuable.
Well like I said I am not too familiar, but from what I've read it sounds like they did. Although it took them until 2003 (or maybe '05?) to do it.
edit- This, Technical Readout: Project Phoenix, says they did. In 2003.
Which if that is the case then there is no reason they cannot use the Unseen as they are not longer, uh, Unseen-able.
And thus the "WTF?" about this whole business. They shouldn't have copied designs from Macross, but they did. When the deal for using those designs fell through, they should've redesigned immediately instead of haggling. And then years and years later, they finally do go through with the redesign... but somehow there's still an issue with the Unseen almost 10 years after the redesign? Buh?
It's so completely... goofy.
Though if MWO comes through clean with its redesigns, I certainly won't care any more about this whole Unseen business. In fact, I'm genuinely looking forward to see what they come up with; every redesign so far has been pure sex.
Your list is based on outdated materiel.
The 3039 book replaced 3025 and 3026. Also, the Inner Sphere half of the 3050 Upgrade book would be available as well.
3039 added in some new mechs and cleaned up the art (same with the 3050 upgrade compared to old FASA 3050) in order for there to be a good lineup of 3rd succession war era mechs without any unseen.
Indeed and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse over this, but man you gotta figure paying an artist to redesign a handful of Mechs would have been infinitely cheaper than paying a lawyer (or more than likely a team of).
Okay, okay. Whew, let me see here.
2003 they redesign all the Unseen.
2009 Catalyst Game Labs get the rights to use the original Unseen. Meaning they probably spent money (a lot of) to gain the rights to use something that was already redesigned six years prior.
Then not long after that it turns out that, oops, they do not have the rights.
What is it about this that makes people waste so much good money for, honestly, zero gain? Especially now?
Hell yes. I'm in love with the Centurion all over again. I especially like how fd designs mech limbs that don't have any equipment in them as basically huge shields, since that's really all they are at that point.
Having the ability to move your arms independent of your torso twist means you'll finally be able to use a "shield" arm and a weapon mounted on the opposite arm to direct fire if not on the attacking enemy, but at least near, is a great development in my eyes. Something like this:
The options for the enemy is to either back-pedal which would leave you open to circle around to the right, walk straight ahead across your line of fire or forward to his left to get our of your left arms field of fire and try to attack from the rear (but then you'd just torso-twist and circle to the right to keep the left weapon training on him). All bad news for Mr Red there
I think I need to change my pants now. :oops:
The only unfortunate aspect is you won't be able to pull off the "arms pointing wide, firing in three random directions while a huge explosion occurs behind you" money shot
What do you mean? the Warhammer is as iconic as the Timber wolf
This is the one I want to drive if I can't have a Timber wolf/Stormcrow/Mad dog.
Fingers crossed as it was in the first official trailer fighting a atlas
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
It's not really zero gain. Some of the Unseen are pretty much iconic to Battletech.
But yeah, at this point I want them to be in the game and not left out because of image. Hopefully FD can redesign them.
Though this is not FD, I wouldn't mind riding into battle in something like this:
Well, as far as 'mechs go, TRO3039 has:
-the non-Unseen stuff from 3025
-the Star League stuff from TRO2750 (really, the downgraded versions from 3025 Revised)
-the Project Phoenix redesigns of the Unseen.
There's no precedent yet for them using either of the latter two, so I stuck with the first category. Though yes, I was going down the original TRO3025 lineup for reference when I wrote the post.
The game from that trailer is long dead.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel the same way if a few of my favorites, say the Mad Cat or Vulture (I'm in an IS kind of mood today), were part of that group, but guess what, they're not. Which is probably why I like them in part (since I knew about Macross before I knew about BT). Then again, I don't like the earliest style of either two Mechs designs.
If they were interested in an efficient solution, that would be it, of course. Clearly they aren't, and I know some of the Unseen are iconic. At the same time, FASA and company have made more than a few bad decisions in the last few years...like the whole land air mech concept.
LAMs were buried pretty fast, since it suffered serious issues with transformation, Take off and Land. Further, they weren't exactly spectacular as either planes or mechs.
By contrast, The warhammer, marauder and pheonix hawk have been long standing favorites not only of the fans but also of the writers for decades. Not including them is like having a super bowl party without beer.
Fixed that for you. Seriously though--especially given that the previous brand of beer was apparently infringing on copyright, this might be the best option for all.
Yeah, but a lot of that is explaining why they stopped using them.
At the end of the day, it was almost certainly someone at FASA watching Macross and going "Shit, that's really cool! We want those! Get someone on the line and bribe them!"
They did the opposite of thinking it through. Because, to their credit, BT actually follows certain logic and offers rational explanations for things. Had they done so, they would have realized that Macross actually does something similar, with an entirely different type of warfare (basically: jet aircraft that can fire more than a kilometer away) that does not resemble BT at all.
If that wasn't what happened, they certainly tried hard to make it look like that's what happened.
Not sad to see them go, but they could be pretty broken. We banned playing LAMs pretty early on, even before they were phased out.
With their Total War series Catalyst really cleaned things up. Now all the various Xtech games (battletech, citytech, aerotech, battlespace, battleforce etc...) are in the main series of rulebooks (currently 3 hardbacks + Maximum Tech with the last - Interstellar Operations - underway)
Yeah, 4 legs are always cooler than 2.
Technically speaking Quads carry less space for armaments since the "arms" have to have foot and leg actuators that could be removed if they were actual arms. And also, Quads need some of the higher level rules to really shine, such as going Hull Down and being allowed to mount 360 degree turrets.
So you are talking about weapons mounted between the legs - "cock lasers" :winky:
Anyways, I thought you could put more "on" the weapon plattform because the area to put on things could be bigger. It is more stabilized by the 4 legs.
Edit: As a mech designer I would make it so, that the head of mech would be situated between the legs and the 4 legs themself would act like 4 shields. I then would put all the weapons on top.
Gameplaywise 360 degree auto-turrents wouldn't be so interesting I assume - then controlling the whole body / arms of a bipedal Mech in order to aim.
I wish I could hate you to death.
Makie says "Pelvic Thrust!"
In the board game there are elevations. Mechs were 2 elevations tall, so standing behind a level 1 hill provided a cover bonus from incoming fire (and in some cases restricted the potential landing hit areas - which was A Bad Thing. An unobstructed hit rolled 2 six sided dice to determine hit location and a headshot was on 12. If the modified upper body table was used, you rolled one six sider for hit location and head was a six. Lots of decapitated mechs).
As far as I remember (and I may be rusty) Quad mechs were also considered to be 2 elevations but could take a special action called going Hull Down in a cratered area for more defensive positioning. I don't remember what the adjusted hit locations were but I recall them not being instant death.
Arms and legs were also important for firing arcs. A regular bipedal mech could fire anything in its arms and torso, legs or head forward in a predetermined arc (I'm not sure what the exact angle was) and anything in an arm slot in a wide angle to the side (no crossover shots to the other side).
Quad mechs gave up the ability to fire in those arm arcs altogether, since their arms were now legs. As a giveback they could mount a top turret which had a 360 degree arc but was restricted in weapon type based off the tonnage of the mech. Bigger mechs mount bigger turrets.
Note that from the videos (as well as perhaps other sources *ahem*) MWO has included the greater utility of having weapons in arms (by having them be easier to aim / have a wider field of fire).
side note: Total War (catalyst Battletech) fixed the problem with using cover. Now if you are a mech behind a hill or building you still use the normal hit table (front / rear, right or left as needed) and if you roll legs then the shot is blocked by the cover.
So enemy fire magically became more accurate when you were in cover? Brilliant!
There were a set of circumstances that had to be met in order to use the upper body table and a good pilot could avoid getting into them but there were times where you would intentionally accept the risk in order to make more shots miss. In TT rules partial cover gave enemies a +4 penalty to the target hit number, and attacks were rolled on 2D6. At medium and long ranges this gave base to hit numbers of 10 and 12 respectively, before any movement, heat or misc modifiers. Even at short ranges it could be an acceptable risk if you knew your opponent wasn't carrying anything that could clean out the head in a single hit (12 damage or more - and there were originally only two weapons that could do this, the Gauss Rifle and AC/20. As rules expanded more weapons got above that threshold and life in the trenches became more difficult)