Kewl. If they make another installment into the Spec Ops series, I think they'll probably go in a slightly different direction somehow. I think an important part of The Line is how it's so unique. They could still go that grim, but at themaybe tackle a new set of issues. Keep that originality.
White Phosphorus: Tried it a few times without using the white phosphorus, but it didn't exactly go well. So, I used the mortar. I knew there was something about accidentally hitting civilians... but it hit me hard nonetheless. I never thought to even check out what the gate was at all. I'm pretty sure I couldn't do that, but the fact that it never even occured to me... that's not even a moral quandry, that was just stupidity, and because of that, dozens of civilians burned to death. After that seen, I just walked head on into the soldiers. I considered just ending the game right there, with my death. When I respawned, I just sat behind a car, trying to decide whether to kill myself again. Then someone went down. I don't know whether it was Jugo or Adams, but I decided I should at least try to get them out of that city alive.
Water tanks: I shot him. It was another one of those things where I didn't have enough time to think hard about what was happening. I suppose he endeared himself to me when he didn't try to kill me on sight, and I could understand the logic behind his deciscion, even if it wasn't the course of action I'd have taken. I didn't think he deserved to burn to death.
Phosphorous
I recall not wanting to make the decision because I was worried things would go bad but at the same time I had the feeling of running out of time and needing to push forward. That need to push forward is a monster.
Honestly I saw it coming, I went "sigh, vidja gaemz" and just jumped in whole hog and started firing. When it got to the end I went "well, this is kind of obvious" so
I hit the start of the bridge directly and it still propagated across,
and it made me go "yup I get that this is necessary for the story to get told, lets keep going." This isnt a negative just more of a "ok, fine, this is the best you could do to get this done".
Waaaah, waaah! I had no choice! I used my brilliant mind to see through the stupid forced choice of using the WP! Waaah, waaah!
But seriously. I loved the game. Uncharted 3 left me disgusted at all the killing it was making me do when all I wanted to do was to adventure and find treasure.
I just started and finished this at the weekend and I'm finally going back through this thread, reading the old discussions and the like. I think my own personal take on 'that scene' is:
it's kind of like a videogame Milgram experiment. The debate over the WP scene seems to fall into that "I was only following orders" reaction, wherein the developers expect you to keep playing because you paid your money for a video game and you want to see what happens next. That's basically your validation, your excuse, for continuing. Some people feel cheated by that, like stopping playing the game isn't a valid choice, so to that I ask: what would make you stop? What content would be too objectionable for you? Bad gameplay? Broken mechanics? You just watched a representation of a war crime but that didn't make you (or me) stop playing. Walker screamed at Lugo "THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE", that was his order. You kept playing because you weren't going to stop, "there is no other choice". I think that's a fascinating aspect to it all.
edit: some of the discussion on the previous page about even the grenade launcher, made me remember this excellent/genuinely disturbing account from a PTSD sufferer (which is probably something you shouldn't read if you suffer from it, because I have to imagine it's just rife with triggers) http://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2013/05/scars-you-dont-see-what-its-live-ptsd
Spec Ops though, man. Just incredible. It used to be Half-Life 2 was the game I wanted to buy for people like some kind of videogame evangelist, but now I think it would be this.
"We are kicking off Trick or Treat Week with a real Treat - We are proud to announce that we are bringing 2K's award winning crittically acclaimed experince of Spec Ops: The Line to the Mac! Select fans of Digital Tribe Games will win a Steam Key to this outstanding title. Just click on "Like" and send us a private message saying "TRICK OR TREAT"
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Y'know, I've never replayed this game. Did the one run, and that's it. I suppose it's like with ME, it's boring to make the same choices again. But I feel like that sorta goes against the message of the game a bit.
I just started and finished this at the weekend and I'm finally going back through this thread, reading the old discussions and the like. I think my own personal take on 'that scene' is:
it's kind of like a videogame Milgram experiment. The debate over the WP scene seems to fall into that "I was only following orders" reaction, wherein the developers expect you to keep playing because you paid your money for a video game and you want to see what happens next. That's basically your validation, your excuse, for continuing. Some people feel cheated by that, like stopping playing the game isn't a valid choice, so to that I ask: what would make you stop? What content would be too objectionable for you? Bad gameplay? Broken mechanics? You just watched a representation of a war crime but that didn't make you (or me) stop playing. Walker screamed at Lugo "THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE", that was his order. You kept playing because you weren't going to stop, "there is no other choice". I think that's a fascinating aspect to it all.
edit: some of the discussion on the previous page about even the grenade launcher, made me remember this excellent/genuinely disturbing account from a PTSD sufferer (which is probably something you shouldn't read if you suffer from it, because I have to imagine it's just rife with triggers) http://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2013/05/scars-you-dont-see-what-its-live-ptsd
Spec Ops though, man. Just incredible. It used to be Half-Life 2 was the game I wanted to buy for people like some kind of videogame evangelist, but now I think it would be this.
My only issue with using it for videogame evangelism is that you kinda need to have some background on the military FPS genre. The whole idea of heroism/glorifying war doesn't come through if you aren't aware of what Call of Duty is like.
Y'know, I've never replayed this game. Did the one run, and that's it. I suppose it's like with ME, it's boring to make the same choices again. But I feel like that sorta goes against the message of the game a bit.
This isn't a game that I can go back to and experience anything close to what happened that first time. I know this, so I know it will never be reinstalled. I made my choices. It was exilarating and beyond horrifing for me. The only point would be to go back and examine my choices, but that examination of the choices would be tainted with the knowledge of what happened.
Yeah, I don't think any subsequent playthrough for Spec Ops could deliver the same as the first playthrough did. I do want to go through the co-op at some point, but I don't know when I'll ever play through the singleplayer portion again.
I did it in one sitting, and the milgram experiment analogy that was mentioned earlier in the thread was only semi apt for me - I felt that I had to keep going, even as things got worse and worse, no matter what, I had to see it through. Not because of "orders" though, but because If I didn't, than everything I did would have been for nothing. I had to find some conclusion to the story so that I could find some way to 'excuse' everything that I had did up until then.
So I wasn't continuing because it was 'my job' or because I was 'just following orders', I was continuing because, as we sunk deeper and deeper, as we pushed The Line farther and farther, I had to know that there was a point to everything that had happened, so in a weird way I was trying to justify the means to an end even as the means grew worse and worse. I killed a few people, and I had to know why. I killed a few more people, and I had to know why. I
burned an entire group of civilians to death in the most horrific way possible, I doomed an entire city to die of thirst, I unloaded round after round into an angry mob of people
and I had to know why.
Which, to me, is pretty fucking deep for what looked like a typical manshoot. I knew a bit about the slow descent and atmosphere that the game had before I played it from the Steam thread, but I can only imagine what was going through the mind of the typical cowadootie dudebro gamer who bought it because it looked cool and went in completely blind.
I just wanted to top off the headshot cheevo. I wonder if the
angry mob of rock-throwing civilians
counts, that's gotta be at least a couple dozen right there. Of course you can only get like two or three, they're so quick and all, but still... ooh! Ooh! Does
shooting yourself
at the end count? I feel like it should, that's robbing you of a kill otherwise, and...
I just started and finished this at the weekend and I'm finally going back through this thread, reading the old discussions and the like. I think my own personal take on 'that scene' is:
it's kind of like a videogame Milgram experiment. The debate over the WP scene seems to fall into that "I was only following orders" reaction, wherein the developers expect you to keep playing because you paid your money for a video game and you want to see what happens next. That's basically your validation, your excuse, for continuing. Some people feel cheated by that, like stopping playing the game isn't a valid choice, so to that I ask: what would make you stop? What content would be too objectionable for you? Bad gameplay? Broken mechanics? You just watched a representation of a war crime but that didn't make you (or me) stop playing. Walker screamed at Lugo "THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE", that was his order. You kept playing because you weren't going to stop, "there is no other choice". I think that's a fascinating aspect to it all.
edit: some of the discussion on the previous page about even the grenade launcher, made me remember this excellent/genuinely disturbing account from a PTSD sufferer (which is probably something you shouldn't read if you suffer from it, because I have to imagine it's just rife with triggers) http://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2013/05/scars-you-dont-see-what-its-live-ptsd
Spec Ops though, man. Just incredible. It used to be Half-Life 2 was the game I wanted to buy for people like some kind of videogame evangelist, but now I think it would be this.
My only issue with using it for videogame evangelism is that you kinda need to have some background on the military FPS genre. The whole idea of heroism/glorifying war doesn't come through if you aren't aware of what Call of Duty is like.
I don't think this is the case. It's pretty standard for games to cast the player in the role of the powerful hero who overcomes all odds to achieve victory. I think that if you are aware of what videogames are like, you can probably extrapolate that in the military shooter genre Good Guys win, Bad Guys lose and England America prevails.
Iron Weasel on
Currently Playing:
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
I just wanted to top off the headshot cheevo. I wonder if the
angry mob of rock-throwing civilians
counts, that's gotta be at least a couple dozen right there. Of course you can only get like two or three, they're so quick and all, but still... ooh! Ooh! Does
shooting yourself
at the end count? I feel like it should, that's robbing you of a kill otherwise, and...
...what? What's everybody staring at?
It's just a game.
I still wanna get the last audio logs I'm missing but a friend has my copy.
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I just wanted to top off the headshot cheevo. I wonder if the
angry mob of rock-throwing civilians
counts, that's gotta be at least a couple dozen right there. Of course you can only get like two or three, they're so quick and all, but still... ooh! Ooh! Does
shooting yourself
at the end count? I feel like it should, that's robbing you of a kill otherwise, and...
...what? What's everybody staring at?
It's just a game.
I still wanna get the last audio logs I'm missing but a friend has my copy.
I missed a few myself, and I admit I'm almost curious enough to give it another go. Almost.
I think it's a credit to the game that there's actually a compelling mystery dangled in front of the player. Questions like "Who knew about the storm beforehand? What exactly happened to the 33rd? Why was Konrad's message broadcast just now? Why is everything so fucked up here?" are all front and center, and the game did a great job making me want to know more, even as things got progressively darker. It has a sense that even if it was played straight - not necessarily "America fuck yeah", just less "THE HORROR THE HORROR" - it still would've had an interesting story to tell.
To me, that made later events hit all the harder. God help me, but I still wanted to know, even after it was abundantly clear that nothing good lay ahead.
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Man, playing BL2 after Spec Ops is an awful experience.
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Hopefully their next project will be something that makes people feel bad for playing Candy Crush Saga and other facebook/browser/phone time waster games.
What have you done, your children starved to death while you were beating that level, monster!
Kewl. If they make another installment into the Spec Ops series, I think they'll probably go in a slightly different direction somehow. I think an important part of The Line is how it's so unique. They could still go that grim, but at themaybe tackle a new set of issues. Keep that originality.
I have seen a few minutes of that Viscera cleanup game and I've thought of a game where you need to investigate war crimes on a sci-fi setting. Kinda like Mass Effect made by the Witcher people.
I got the Witcher 2 for the 360 but I have barely touched it. I want to play the first one before I get into it.
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Hopefully their next project will be something that makes people feel bad for playing Candy Crush Saga and other facebook/browser/phone time waster games.
What have you done, your children starved to death while you were beating that level, monster!
Oh, even better, a game whose twisted unfolding narrative villainizes twitter.
All through the game you are led to believe that you are posting witty bon mots but in a surprise twist it is revealed that you were actually calling all your co-workers racist epithets and then you are fired and die homeless.
The game has a 75% discount on XBL during the 2K sale.
From Yager's facebook page:
This goes out to all the skilled Technical Artists:
YAGER is growing and there is a lot to do for passionate and skilled individuals. Right now, we’re looking for a Technical Artist with experience for an exciting new AAA IP.
We want someone who believes it’s their job to work together with a team to deliver a great product, fixing problems when necessary but also supporting the team in taking care of their own problems. Someone who inspires others with their self-driven mindset, who owns things from start to finish, who loves to make others more effective and finds the right tools to do so. In short, an awesome person who likes to push things.
I hope they reveal that soon.
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Before they made a Spec Ops game the Spec Ops franchise was almost literally the worst military shooter franchise in the world. So, maybe they'll do something interesting. But we'll see. Without the same writer as Spec Ops there's no reason to think things will be amazing, and I guess that guy isn't back for this game, is he?
The gameplay of Spec Ops is nothing special, it's only when combined with the setting/themes/screwed up imagery/etc that it became something impressive. So adding just the gameplay team to a completely lifeless franchise like Dead Island (no pun intended) gets a big ~whatever, who cares~ from me.
Posts
I was already looking forward to their next project and now I'm more interested.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Honestly I saw it coming, I went "sigh, vidja gaemz" and just jumped in whole hog and started firing. When it got to the end I went "well, this is kind of obvious" so
But seriously. I loved the game. Uncharted 3 left me disgusted at all the killing it was making me do when all I wanted to do was to adventure and find treasure.
At 18:40. It is basically the indie ending to Spec Ops. :P
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
http://steininger.blogspot.de/2012/10/spec-ops-line-comic.html
http://steininger.blogspot.de/2012/10/spec-ops-line.html
It looks good.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
edit: some of the discussion on the previous page about even the grenade launcher, made me remember this excellent/genuinely disturbing account from a PTSD sufferer (which is probably something you shouldn't read if you suffer from it, because I have to imagine it's just rife with triggers)
http://www.newstatesman.com/voices/2013/05/scars-you-dont-see-what-its-live-ptsd
Spec Ops though, man. Just incredible. It used to be Half-Life 2 was the game I wanted to buy for people like some kind of videogame evangelist, but now I think it would be this.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Bring me your delicious tears.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
My only issue with using it for videogame evangelism is that you kinda need to have some background on the military FPS genre. The whole idea of heroism/glorifying war doesn't come through if you aren't aware of what Call of Duty is like.
This isn't a game that I can go back to and experience anything close to what happened that first time. I know this, so I know it will never be reinstalled. I made my choices. It was exilarating and beyond horrifing for me. The only point would be to go back and examine my choices, but that examination of the choices would be tainted with the knowledge of what happened.
I did it in one sitting, and the milgram experiment analogy that was mentioned earlier in the thread was only semi apt for me - I felt that I had to keep going, even as things got worse and worse, no matter what, I had to see it through. Not because of "orders" though, but because If I didn't, than everything I did would have been for nothing. I had to find some conclusion to the story so that I could find some way to 'excuse' everything that I had did up until then.
So I wasn't continuing because it was 'my job' or because I was 'just following orders', I was continuing because, as we sunk deeper and deeper, as we pushed The Line farther and farther, I had to know that there was a point to everything that had happened, so in a weird way I was trying to justify the means to an end even as the means grew worse and worse. I killed a few people, and I had to know why. I killed a few more people, and I had to know why. I
and I had to know why.
Which, to me, is pretty fucking deep for what looked like a typical manshoot. I knew a bit about the slow descent and atmosphere that the game had before I played it from the Steam thread, but I can only imagine what was going through the mind of the typical cowadootie dudebro gamer who bought it because it looked cool and went in completely blind.
...what? What's everybody staring at?
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
It's just a game.
I still wanna get the last audio logs I'm missing but a friend has my copy.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I missed a few myself, and I admit I'm almost curious enough to give it another go. Almost.
I think it's a credit to the game that there's actually a compelling mystery dangled in front of the player. Questions like "Who knew about the storm beforehand? What exactly happened to the 33rd? Why was Konrad's message broadcast just now? Why is everything so fucked up here?" are all front and center, and the game did a great job making me want to know more, even as things got progressively darker. It has a sense that even if it was played straight - not necessarily "America fuck yeah", just less "THE HORROR THE HORROR" - it still would've had an interesting story to tell.
To me, that made later events hit all the harder. God help me, but I still wanted to know, even after it was abundantly clear that nothing good lay ahead.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
Man, playing BL2 after Spec Ops is an awful experience.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
He didn't, but YOU follow video game orders.
I dunno, I didn't state it correctly, but I don't consider him a "rouge" or "outlaw".
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Tactical rouge camo. Hides the blood stains.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
What have you done, your children starved to death while you were beating that level, monster!
I have seen a few minutes of that Viscera cleanup game and I've thought of a game where you need to investigate war crimes on a sci-fi setting. Kinda like Mass Effect made by the Witcher people.
I got the Witcher 2 for the 360 but I have barely touched it. I want to play the first one before I get into it.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
You were not there! YOU WERE NOT THERE! :P
From facebook:
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
All through the game you are led to believe that you are posting witty bon mots but in a surprise twist it is revealed that you were actually calling all your co-workers racist epithets and then you are fired and die homeless.
Too close to reality or too far from fun?
From Yager's facebook page:
I hope they reveal that soon.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA