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Turkey bans YouTube

AldoAldo Hippo HoorayRegistered User regular
edited March 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
BBC wrote:
Access to the popular video-sharing website YouTube has been suspended in Turkey following a court order.

The ban was imposed after prosecutors told the court that clips insulting former Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk had appeared on the site.

Read on

tl;dr Turkey bans YouTube because there were clips on there offending the Turkish culture, which is forbidden in Turkey.

---

I used to be in favour of letting Turkey join the European Union, but it's this sort of shit that makes me want to push Turkey far far away. Turkey needs to shape up and become a country where people are allowed to make fun of their and other cultures. It doesn't look good for Turkey:

1) Death penalty
2) "battle" against the Kurds
3) Denying all claims that Turks killed Armenians

Is there anyone who would allow Turkey in the EU? Is Turkey even serious about wanting to join the EU?

Or in short: WTF TURKEY?

Aldo on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2007
    I was just about to make a thread called "This thread is illegal in Turkey".

    They jailed a Kurd for referring to Abdullah Ocalan as "Mr Ocalan".

    Echo on
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    JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why is it that the Greeks hate the Turks? I've forgotten.

    Johannen on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Dude, if someone refused to look at youtube, I wouldn't even let them into my house.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why is it that the Greeks hate the Turks? I've forgotten.

    300

    Obs on
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    JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Obs wrote: »
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why is it that the Greeks hate the Turks? I've forgotten.

    300

    Aaaaah Gotya!

    Johannen on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why is it that the Greeks hate the Turks? I've forgotten.
    well, I think the turks took over Greece a few times, and just tried to on a few other occasions. And I think there are some disputes of a shitty little island that both of them claim, cypress or something crete? And there is a bit or religious tension too, cause the turks are mostly Islamic, and the greeks are mainly christian. And the Greeks stopped killing folks for disagreeing with the govenment several centuries before Christ was born, or at least they like to pretend that they do, and the Turks pretty much still do it.

    Something like that anyway. They've got a lot of history.


    I kinda don't like turkey, and am currently a little pissed that my mom is going to Istanbul to visit again. She won't buy nestle products, but she will spend money in turkey. :roll:

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    sadly these are our best "allies' in the region too....

    nexuscrawler on
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    GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    I was just about to make a thread called "This thread is illegal in Turkey".

    They jailed a Kurd for referring to Abdullah Ocalan as "Mr Ocalan".

    Because I am a silly American who has no idea who Abdullah Ocalan is, I saw your post and figured he was being jailed for showing disrepect (by not using his full name)to Mr. Ocalan, who I assumed was a prime minister or something. Then I read the story, and realized two things:
    1. I don't know anything about Turkey.
    2. What the fuck? They jailed him for adding a standard linguistic article?

    GoodOmens on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2007
    GoodOmens wrote: »
    2. What the fuck? They jailed him for adding a standard linguistic article?

    I suspect that was just the pretense. They really jailed him for being a Kurd, and that gave them an excuse.

    Turkey has a major hardon for messing with Kurds.

    Echo on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I love the Turkish law of it being illegal to mock all things Turkish.

    Article 301: "A person who, being a Turk, explicitly insults the Republic or Turkish Grand National Assembly, shall be imposed to a penalty of imprisonment for a term of six months to three years."

    Malkor on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    they're pertified the Kurds will try to make thier own state and take half of Turkey with them

    nexuscrawler on
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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    What ever happened to Ege02?


    He'd be all up on this denying it ever happened.

    Der Waffle Mous on
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    ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    So why did Constantinople get the works?

    Don't ask unless you want to spend six months in a Turkish prison.

    Which I've heard is nothing at all like a Turkish spa.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2007
    Turkey makes a pretty compelling argument for not admitting them to the EU themselves: they refuse to officially recognize Cyprus as a sovereign state; Cyprus is a EU member.

    Another frequent argument is that only 3% of Turkey is actually in Europe. The rest, including the capital, is a part of Asia.

    Echo on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Turkey makes a pretty compelling argument for not admitting them to the EU themselves: they refuse to officially recognize Cyprus as a sovereign state; Cyprus is a EU member.

    Another frequent argument is that only 3% of Turkey is actually in Europe. The rest, including the capital, is a part of Asia.


    that's right. My bad. I knew there was something with Cyprus and them having domain over it. But it is an independent state, not part of greece. duh.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2007
    It's worth pointing out that one of the best ways to influence someone's behavior to be more like your own is to adopt them into your circle. If Turkey joins the EU, it'll be much easier to get them to adopt more liberal western ideals. Keeping them out is a great way to tell them that liberal notions of freedom and tolerance aren't for them.

    ElJeffe on
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    GodGod Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Turkey makes a pretty compelling argument for not admitting them to the EU themselves: they refuse to officially recognize Cyprus as a sovereign state; Cyprus is a EU member.

    Another frequent argument is that only 3% of Turkey is actually in Europe. The rest, including the capital, is a part of Asia.

    As far as I know, Cyprus itself is not at all geographically in Europe, though it is in the EU.

    There is a school of thought where people reasonably say "Hey, wtf Turkey? If you want to be a part of the EU, maybe you should work on those European values." But there's also another with the idea that Turkey is a country with two futures: they could teeter to their secular, moderate side or their nationalist, islamic side. Maybe EU membership would set them on the right path.

    But when you read about shit like honor killings and arresting Kurds for... well, being Kurds, the first argument seems better. And yeah, the whole Cyprus situation is really really hurting Turkey. How do they expect to negotiate with the EU when they don't fully recognize the other party they're negotiating with. I mean, why do they even give a fuck about Cyprus? Wouldn't it be beyond worth it to say fuck the island and give it back to the Greek nationals? But from the sounds of it they're hung up on great Turkishness which I'm sure translates to these colors don't run.

    _40079083_flags_afp203body.jpg

    We could also go cynical and see that the EU is rapidly becoming a society of old people, and Turkey being a big, young, poor country could give the union a shot in the arm. Plentiful cheap labor will be much needed down the line and Turkey seems to be the best source of that.

    God on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that one of the best ways to influence someone's behavior to be more like your own is to adopt them into your circle. If Turkey joins the EU, it'll be much easier to get them to adopt more liberal western ideals. Keeping them out is a great way to tell them that liberal notions of freedom and tolerance aren't for them.

    Putin won't have it.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
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    GodGod Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Putin won't have what

    God on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Oh, I keep getting Turkey and Hungary mixed up.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    God wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Turkey makes a pretty compelling argument for not admitting them to the EU themselves: they refuse to officially recognize Cyprus as a sovereign state; Cyprus is a EU member.

    Another frequent argument is that only 3% of Turkey is actually in Europe. The rest, including the capital, is a part of Asia.

    As far as I know, Cyprus itself is not at all geographically in Europe, though it is in the EU.

    There is a school of thought where people reasonably say "Hey, wtf Turkey? If you want to be a part of the EU, maybe you should work on those European values." But there's also another with the idea that Turkey is a country with two futures: they could teeter to their secular, moderate side or their nationalist, islamic side. Maybe EU membership would set them on the right path.

    But when you read about shit like honor killings and arresting Kurds for... well, being Kurds, the first argument seems better. And yeah, the whole Cyprus situation is really really hurting Turkey. How do they expect to negotiate with the EU when they don't fully recognize the other party they're negotiating with. I mean, why do they even give a fuck about Cyprus? Wouldn't it be beyond worth it to say fuck the island and give it back to the Greek nationals? But from the sounds of it they're hung up on great Turkishness which I'm sure translates to these colors don't run.

    [imghttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40079000/jpg/_40079083_flags_afp203body.jpg[/img]

    We could also go cynical and see that the EU is rapidly becoming a society of old people, and Turkey being a big, young, poor country could give the union a shot in the arm. Plentiful cheap labor will be much needed down the line and Turkey seems to be the best source of that.

    The European Union also has its own people to care for, since they allowed half of Eastern Europe in, it is already difficult to get them all in line and act like reasonable Western powermongers. Last thing we want is give Turkey any kind of vote in things that affect all citizens. And seriously, what will they do once some Frenchy or Dutchy will make a joke about Turkey? Intifadah Intifadah waah waah?

    PS: Oçalan is the leader of the Kurds who is facing the death penalty, the only reason he is not dead yet, is because of constant pressure from the EU.

    Aldo on
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    HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Hungary is a member of the EU. ;-)

    Anyway, I´m torn on this issue. I normaly see it like Jeffe, but then some shit like this happens I tend to be afflicted by doubts.

    Laws that get in the way of looking long and hard upon ones questionable past?
    Wow, just wow.

    Haphazard on
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    ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Obs wrote: »
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why is it that the Greeks hate the Turks? I've forgotten.

    300

    300 is Persians.

    Persians != Turks
    Echo wrote: »
    Turkey makes a pretty compelling argument for not admitting them to the EU themselves: they refuse to officially recognize Cyprus as a sovereign state; Cyprus is a EU member.

    Another frequent argument is that only 3% of Turkey is actually in Europe. The rest, including the capital, is a part of Asia.

    More like 15%. But that's silly details.

    --

    Aside from this this whole thing is pretty fucked up.
    WHY wrote: »
    What ever happened to Ege02?

    He'd be all up on this denying it ever happened.

    You haven't known me very well.

    When bullshit like this happens I'll be the first Turk to ever speak out against Turkey. I don't agree with a lot of Turkish laws, I don't agree with the way Turkey is run, I fucking hate the way most Turks are such hardasses about everything.

    However, you gotta be fair. Turkey might have a lot of fucked-upness but its picture is actually not half as bad as most media sources paint (mostly because only the bad shit is talked about in Western media). When you say shit like "unfortunately these are our best allies in the region" you're just being ignorant.

    ege02 on
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    GodGod Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    The European Union also has its own people to care for, since they allowed half of Eastern Europe in, it is already difficult to get them all in line and act like reasonable Western powermongers. Last thing we want is give Turkey any kind of vote in things that affect all citizens. And seriously, what will they do once some Frenchy or Dutchy will make a joke about Turkey? Intifadah Intifadah waah waah?

    PS: Oçalan is the leader of the Kurds who is facing the death penalty, the only reason he is not dead yet, is because of constant pressure from the EU.

    But if Turkey was allowed in they'd be your people too, right? :)

    But yeah, Turkey would be what, the second or third largest state in the EU? So they'd be heavy-hitters up there with France and Germany. I could see how that prospect is scary.

    God on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that one of the best ways to influence someone's behavior to be more like your own is to adopt them into your circle. If Turkey joins the EU, it'll be much easier to get them to adopt more liberal western ideals. Keeping them out is a great way to tell them that liberal notions of freedom and tolerance aren't for them.

    It's probably a poor example, but what about the U.N.? It allows both depraved totalitarian states and liberal democracies to play in the same sandbox, but it doesn't really care about what your government is like, or how you treat your people, just that there's a modicum of sovereignty, and I don't really see any incentives for countries to change their ways. Would the E.U. be different? Would there be incentives for Turkey to be liberalized?

    Loren Michael on
    a7iea7nzewtq.jpg
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    ColdredColdred Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    God wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    The European Union also has its own people to care for, since they allowed half of Eastern Europe in, it is already difficult to get them all in line and act like reasonable Western powermongers. Last thing we want is give Turkey any kind of vote in things that affect all citizens. And seriously, what will they do once some Frenchy or Dutchy will make a joke about Turkey? Intifadah Intifadah waah waah?

    PS: Oçalan is the leader of the Kurds who is facing the death penalty, the only reason he is not dead yet, is because of constant pressure from the EU.

    But if Turkey was allowed in they'd be your people too, right? :)

    Haha, do you have any idea how the EU works? I certainly do not see myself as "European". It's handy (and less handy in some ways) to be in the EU but it certainly doesn't make me feel closer to a Frenchman or a German.

    Edit: ElJeffe, has the US ever invited Cuba to join them?

    Coldred on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    t God: They wouldn't give Turkey veto-power, just like they haven't given Poland and Hungary veto-power. However, only the idea of some wacky Muslims having as much power as Portugal scares the shit out of a lot of people.
    ege02 wrote: »
    However, you gotta be fair. Turkey might have a lot of fucked-upness but its picture is actually not half as bad as most media sources paint (mostly because only the bad shit is talked about in Western media). When you say shit like "unfortunately these are our best allies in the region" you're just being ignorant.

    There are billboards for vacations to Turkey all over town here, and when the plans were first launched to let Turkey in the EU, a lot of people were pleased. It would be of great value to the EU if a Muslim country would join us.

    Aldo on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    It would be of great value to the EU if a Muslim country would join us.

    Why?

    Loren Michael on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    It's probably a poor example, but what about the U.N.? It allows both depraved totalitarian states and liberal democracies to play in the same sandbox, but it doesn't really care about what your government is like, or how you treat your people, just that there's a modicum of sovereignty, and I don't really see any incentives for countries to change their ways. Would the E.U. be different? Would there be incentives for Turkey to be liberalized?
    The EU is vastly different from the UN, comparing these two is nearly impossible.

    t Coldred: comparing Turkey to Cuba is a bit of an extreme example, considering Turkey doesn't have any missiles pointed to our major cities. ^^

    Aldo on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    redx wrote: »
    I kinda don't like turkey, and am currently a little pissed that my mom is going to Istanbul to visit again. She won't buy nestle products, but she will spend money in turkey.

    Dude, Hagia Sophia.

    In other news, how is accepting Turkey into the EU in any way saying that the EU endorses their behaviour when most of them will/would publicly decry some of this shit. (Germany would probably imprison any citizen who posted a holocaust denial video or something but not try and get the site restricted) The silent treatment simply doesn't work, let alone in the geopolitical scene. You want things to change you have to engage them. Hey, EU membership would be a great way to engage them.

    moniker on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    The EU is vastly different from the UN, comparing these two is nearly impossible.

    I realize, but in regards to Jeffe's comment, would there be any incentives to liberalize and discard harmful nationalistic/cultural artifacts?

    Loren Michael on
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    ColdredColdred Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    It's probably a poor example, but what about the U.N.? It allows both depraved totalitarian states and liberal democracies to play in the same sandbox, but it doesn't really care about what your government is like, or how you treat your people, just that there's a modicum of sovereignty, and I don't really see any incentives for countries to change their ways. Would the E.U. be different? Would there be incentives for Turkey to be liberalized?
    The EU is vastly different from the UN, comparing these two is nearly impossible.

    t Coldred: comparing Turkey to Cuba is a bit of an extreme example, considering Turkey doesn't have any missiles pointed to our major cities. ^^

    I guess. Still, I'm not keen on allowing people to join the EU and then saying "now, you really need to be nicer." Enough messed up things happen in the European Parliament as it is.

    Coldred on
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    Nexus ZeroNexus Zero Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    It's sick. I understand the "we could convert them" ideal of letting them into the EU, after all that sort of ideology migration is why I thought it was a good idea to let the Eastern bloc in. But no. Just no. It's despicable, I've said for a long time they're just not civilised enough to be let in and they've just gone and proved it.

    Nexus Zero on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    t Coldred: comparing Turkey to Cuba is a bit of an extreme example, considering Turkey doesn't have any missiles pointed to our major cities. ^^

    :| Neither does Cuba. What, are you living in the 60's?

    Also, Turkey isn't a muslim nation it's a nation of muslims.

    moniker on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    It would be of great value to the EU if a Muslim country would join us.

    Why?

    I didn't want to go into that in that post, because it would be a rather large chunk of text, but I'll do it now.

    First off: all countries in the EU are Christian, even if religion and state are divided, this still has a major impact on the decisions we make (most shops are closed by law on Sunday, for example). If we would have the opinion of Muslims in these matters, it could benefit the EU to be less centred around one particular Relgion.

    Second: A lot of migrants go from Turkey to mostly Germany, although it is understood that there is a certain need for migrants in the future, it is considered important that we can slow down this stream of immigrants. If Turkey is part of the EU, we can aid them like the EU has aided Spain and Italy in the past, once Turkey would get richer, the "need" to move would dwindle down. We can get our needed migrants from Africa, should the need ever rise, so to say.

    Third, We would get a foothold in the Middle-East. This is mostly a geopolitical reason, it's pretty much the same reason Alaska is part of the United States.

    My last reason would be a naive, but a lot of people have the hope that we can "fix" some problems down there, mostly with the Kurds. A lot of people support the struggle for freedom of the Kurds and have advocated for the creation of Kurdistan. We could force Turkey to give in and let go of some of their territory. The rest of Kurdistan could be in Iraq, which shouldn't be a big problem, considering the state that country is currently in.

    Aldo on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2007
    God wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be beyond worth it to say fuck the island and give it back to the Greek nationals? But from the sounds of it they're hung up on great Turkishness which I'm sure translates to these colors don't run.
    They had a referendum on reunification. The Turkish Cypriots voted yes, and the Greek Cypriot voted no.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    moniker wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    t Coldred: comparing Turkey to Cuba is a bit of an extreme example, considering Turkey doesn't have any missiles pointed to our major cities. ^^

    :| Neither does Cuba. What, are you living in the 60's?

    Also, Turkey isn't a muslim nation it's a nation of muslims.

    Then I don't get Coldred's example.

    Aldo on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Elkamil wrote: »
    God wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be beyond worth it to say fuck the island and give it back to the Greek nationals? But from the sounds of it they're hung up on great Turkishness which I'm sure translates to these colors don't run.
    They had a referendum on reunification. The Turkish Cypriots voted yes, and the Greek Cypriot voted no.
    from Wiki wrote:
    The main reason for the 75 percent "no" vote among Greek Cypriots in the referendum was the general perception that the Annan Plan was unbalanced and excessively pro-Turkish, and that it would not safeguard Greek Cypriot rights in the north.

    Aldo on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that one of the best ways to influence someone's behavior to be more like your own is to adopt them into your circle. If Turkey joins the EU, it'll be much easier to get them to adopt more liberal western ideals. Keeping them out is a great way to tell them that liberal notions of freedom and tolerance aren't for them.
    It's probably a poor example, but what about the U.N.? It allows both depraved totalitarian states and liberal democracies to play in the same sandbox, but it doesn't really care about what your government is like, or how you treat your people, just that there's a modicum of sovereignty, and I don't really see any incentives for countries to change their ways. Would the E.U. be different? Would there be incentives for Turkey to be liberalized?
    The UN is a forum, and the EU is a club. Like you said, shitty example.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    t Coldred: comparing Turkey to Cuba is a bit of an extreme example, considering Turkey doesn't have any missiles pointed to our major cities. ^^

    :| Neither does Cuba. What, are you living in the 60's?

    Also, Turkey isn't a muslim nation it's a nation of muslims.

    Then I don't get Coldred's example.

    He was confronting Jeffe's idea that a liberal democracy encorporating a totalitarian regime to liberalize it with America being the democracy and Cuba being the totalitarian. The only issue there is the 14th amendment and the lack of soverignty of states like Kentucky.

    moniker on
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