As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Is Devry worth the career?

2»

Posts

  • SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    tysonrss wrote: »
    So basically, I should do Computer science and that's all?

    I am getting the vibe that you are more focused on the idea of making games rather than the actual work that you'll be doing. A computer science degree will be applicable in the industry but it's not going to be tailor made for work in that industry. There is going to be a hell of a lot of stuff that doesn't seem obviously applicable. Computer science should be an end in and of itself rather than just a means.

    Do you want to learn to program? Will you enjoy it? Does the idea of learning the minute details of how information is stored, sorted and retrieved intrigue you? Do you like solving problems and does applying your solution to the problem within the confines of the syntax and logic of the programming language and computer sound good to you?

    Don't jump into this just because you think it's the path. There is no single path and there is no magic bullet.

    At this point what I would do is use your summer to try and learn a programming language. Pick up a book. Learn a language like C#. Try and learn the language and make something simple and see how you like it.

    Sarksus on
  • tysonrsstysonrss Registered User regular
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

  • SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    Well if you've given it enough thought, go for it. The problem I think we were having is that your replies were rather short and came off as hasty. We don't know a lot about your background so we don't know if your eagerness is grounded or indicative of learning to swim in the middle of a lake.

  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Do you have any experience? Have you done any modding?

    Design is not something you can actually go to school for. And rarely is there a job opening for 'game designer'.

  • tysonrsstysonrss Registered User regular
    I have worked with GBC/GBA roms, RPG Maker and a little of the scripting that is involved with both.

    I don't think I ever wrote a program though or anything.

  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    Let me provide the perspective of someone who's been in the industry for about five years now.

    First off, schooling. When I went to university, all I could think of was 'I want to make games!'. So I enrolled in Computing Science, and immediately regretted that decision. I didn't like programming. I wish I'd tried my hand at it a little more before going to school, because I probably would have realized 'hey, this isn't for me'. I ended up switching to English, because I've always been a strong writer, and found it significantly more satisfying. At this point, my dream of working in the games industry was somewhat tarnished (I knew my chances were a lot lower at getting into a design job than programming), and so I adjusted my expectations accordingly.

    Then I graduated. Soon after graduation, I was offered a job at BioWare as a term tester. That's a fairly-close-to-minimum wage job being a testing monkey. But I wanted in the industry, so I took it. I ended up working a lot of hours, but at least I was being paid hourly, so the extra time worked translated into bigger paycheques. Then, about a year in, I had an opportunity to become a full-time QA employee - that means that I was no longer on contract, and so my job security was a lot higher. Let me point out, however, that I was the lucky one. I worked with a lot of people every bit as skilled as me, but since they didn't end up with the same manager I had (who was a godsend), their contract ended and they left the industry. Some of them had computing science degrees, some of them had Masters degrees, but because they ended up on one project and I ended up on another, I got lucky and made it through.

    One thing I quickly learned when I became a full-time employee is that, even though you're being paid peanuts as a contract employee, at least your overtime is having a direct impact on your bank account. When you're salaried in the games industry, expect to spend a lot of late nights at your desk where you're not seeing any extra money. That's not to say you're always crunching, but it's a reality of the industry and, unfortunately, you're not compensated for it. If you're lucky (and I have been, my working situation has always been pretty great), your company will compensate you in other ways - extra vacation days, small gifts, etc. But it's a lot of 'unpaid' work. Don't make the mistake of averaging your salary over the number of hours worked - that's always depressing.

    Then, I got my break. A year and a bit into being a full-time QA employee, I was lucky enough to work with the Cinematic Designers on Mass Effect 2. And the guy who ran that department was someone that, if he thought you were part of his team, would take care of you in every way he could. He was my advocate, and because of him I made the jump from QA to Design. I've been doing it for a couple of years and I love my job. But, let's be clear - it's not for everyone. Liking to play videogames isn't going to get you through your fourth 95-hour week in a row. The pay isn't amazing (I got a job offer to write tourism brochures for our provincial government, and I'd be making about 160% of my current salary), and it's a lot of stress. I do it because it gives me a job I love and allows me to focus my creative energies on an industry that I love. I don't do it for the money, and I don't do it for the prestige - I'm a cog in a machine, to a large degree.

    There are days of grunt work (I'm living in Word and Visio as of late). The idea of jumping in and becoming a 'Game Designer' isn't going to happen - if you're lucky and you happen to work in a good team, you'll be able to own certain systems, but unless you've been in the industry a while you aren't going to get to be in charge of a game, at least not at a major studio. One of the great things about going indie is you get that opportunity. So I suppose my takeaways for you would be the following:

    1) Make sure you're getting a degree in something you're interested in. I got lucky, and was able to parlay my degree in English and Film Studies into a job that lets me tell stories in an interactive medium. If I'd gone to school for programming, I would likely be miserable right now because programming does not interest me.

    2) Be prepared to bust your ass if you join a studio, and be prepared that it might be a long time before you see any results from that. I got lucky. Many people didn't - and while I will acknowledge that my hard work helped a lot, if I hadn't gotten lucky enough to be provided with the opportunities where my hard work paid off, I'd likely be either out of the industry or still in an entry-level position.

    3) Know the difference between enjoying playing games and enjoying making games. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'I like to play video games but I don't want to make them'. It's watching the sausage get made. I like being on this side of the fence, because I can play a video game and analyze what worked and what didn't, and then present those ideas to be used in a concrete fashion. Some people just want to play the games, and it is good to realize that early on.

    Anyways. TLDR; Making video games can be awesome. It can also be awful. Be aware of the factors that will influence your experience one way or another.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
  • tysonrsstysonrss Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    I live in Ohio, and came across one university that is in the top 10 recomended for the video game industry. It looks more credible. And worth it.

    Shawntee State.
    This program is a broad-based degree providing students a primary mixture of computer science, computer programming, and 2D/3D graphics programming with additional classes in arts, design, math and physics. Graduates of this program will be able to work as game/simulation programmers, designers, and architects. The curriculum is designed to support a team-based, open-ended project environment for engineering technology students. The strong computer science, computer engineering, and programming components of the degree allow a graduate to obtain a career in many non-game related fields of computing.

    So it looks like they cover a lot of things you guys said.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    With Love and Courage
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    There are some good game design programs, but they are very expensive, and you may have to leave the country for them. But I know a lot of students from them who are now working as designers.


    But, "I'm not really good at anything else" and the fact that you want to make games cause you think weapons are cool makes me think you're not really passionate and just don't know what else to do. Because hey, chances are, you're gonna hate what you do a good chunk of the time when you're working in the industry, sorry. Because you ain't Kojima and you're never gonna be.


    Go make a game. Then think about finding a school.

  • HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Yeah, do whatever you can on your own before dropping money on school. Not only to make absolutely sure this is your path, but to get yourself prepared and possibly even get into the industry without going to school at all if you make some kick ass mods or something.

    Heisenberg on
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    But, "I'm not really good at anything else" and the fact that you want to make games cause you think weapons are cool makes me think you're not really passionate and just don't know what else to do. Because hey, chances are, you're gonna hate what you do a good chunk of the time when you're working in the industry, sorry. Because you ain't Kojima and you're never gonna be.

    Well, that's just ridiculous. Obviously there was nothing particularly special about Kojima (as I understand it, Kojima couldn't even program and didn't have a robust design document for MGS. He showed-up at Nintendo's doorstep with his sleeves rolled-up and, after bouncing around from project to project, landed himself with a winner); if you were to run into similar circumstances and also had his ambitions, you certainly could follow in his wake.

    But I wouldn't advocate for anyone to risk a lot of time & money banking on a best-case outcome (which Kojima's was).

    With Love and Courage
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    I mean that in the sense that with the sort of attitude he seem to has, he won't be walking into the industry in the position to take the hardware to the next level and fully utilize it and to make beautiful art and to create a vision. The dude wants to be a programmer/designer. He might eventually get to that sort of level of decision making and responsibility, but it will be a long road, you don't simply enter into the industry in a position of any sort of power. Lots of your precious though-babies will get killed. (All of this is void if you go into indie games, which, really, you could be doing now if you wanted)

    Kojima wanted to be a director, didn't he? And the first thing he did was as an assistant director? Which isn't a programmer/designer.


    But I mean, schools good for deciding what you want to do.

  • SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    I changed my major like four times while I was at a community college. It wasn't too expensive, comparatively. Choosing a variety of classes to see what interests you while taking gen-ed courses is a reasonable plan I think.

    But I also think picking up a programming language over the summer and making something on your own will answer your question faster and more completely than taking classes. If you can succeed in three months and you enjoyed doing it then you may have what it takes.

    Pick up C# and try making a game with XNA or Unity.

    Personally, while I am interested in making games I am intending it only as a hobby. After I finish my CS degree I'll get a job outside the game industry. That wouldn't be such a bad option for you. You'd have better work prospects, likely higher pay and your interest has less of a chance of dying out in a high-stress environment. You'd also be completely responsible for learning everything yourself so you might learn more.

  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    I think Computer Science is the right area to be in. Keep this in mind though, there might be one or two courses that are tangentially related to making games if at all (probably AI and Game Theory) What you absolutely need to do is learn the game stuff and how to apply what you're actually going to be taught on your own time. Whenever you're given the chance to choose your own assignments (like term projects or whatever) you should roll the assignment into your personal project, with permission from your prof of course. So like, your "create a SQL database about something" assignment might become a "create a high score table for your game using SQL" or your "fill out the rest of the code to make this MVC application work" could become a "rewrite my game to use the MVC model"
    A good prof should allow you to do this sort of customization provided you can prove that you learned the concepts.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • tysonrsstysonrss Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    I've heard of it before. But if there is no coding involved, how will this help me in the industry?

  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    tysonrss wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    I've heard of it before. But if there is no coding involved, how will this help me in the industry?

    How will getting a degree help you in the industry? Surprisingly, the answer is the same... it's a place to start. You are so focused on your degree that you are completely losing sight of the big picture. All your degree tells potential employers is that you meet the bare minimum qualifications needed to get a job. Congrats. You are now exactly the same as every other person that has your degree, only worse because Southern Ohio is not the gaming industry Mecca you may have been led to believe. So right off the bat people in California, Washington, places that already have gaming studios will have an inherent advantage. That advantaged is taken to astronomical extremes if (when) they do internships at those companies. Meanwhile, you are in Southern Ohio, getting your degree. The SAME degree they are getting from University of Washington, or UC Irvine... schools potential employers have actually heard of.

    The reason everyone keeps telling you to actually MAKE something is that it is literally the ONLY thing that will set you apart from the thousands of other "you's" there are out there. What you make will be your creation, not something anyone else can lay claim to. That's why a portfolio is more important then a degree for some industries. In this industry I'd say they are both pretty important, but you are so focused on the one that it almost doesn't even matter where you go, while completely ignoring the one thing that would actually get you a job in the industry.

    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college... Columbus State is a good one if you are near there. Any CC will do though. Do your Gen Ed's, learn the basics of programming. Do your class work and in your off time make games. Make tons of games of all different types. Don't make your DREAM game. Make crap games that will give you the tools to one day make the game you are envisioning. Also, don't underestimate the power of brand name recognition. "The" Ohio State University has fantastic name recognition, and I'm willing to bet their program would be better then the school you mentioned above.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    I might have missed it, but do you enjoy coding? do you enjoy drawing? if so are you extremely talented at either of these, because the industry is cutthroat, and to even get considered for a fulltime job in the industry you need to be extremely lucky, and extremely talented. I would take vsove's advice and experience to heart, he was one of the lucky ones who made it, and he worked his ass off. My career in the games industry died in QA as I was one of the unlucky ones who didn't move up. After 4 years of 80 hour work weeks and large spans of time with no work I said it wasn't worth it.

    I was never a super great programmer, and I am a fairly terrible artist, but I enjoy making games, so I do it on the side now for fun. I work IT since I am a computer guy and have never been happier with the decision to get out of the games industry.

    If I were in your shoes right now, where I was about 7 years ago, I would go to a community college, get some gen eds out of the way, take a few elective classes for art or programming, and see if you enjoy it or not. You have awhile to pick a major, and locking yourself into a tradeschool won't let you grow and see what you like, plus you will get hit with a hefty bill at the end of it.

    uNMAGLm.png Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
  • tysonrsstysonrss Registered User regular
    Sentry wrote: »
    tysonrss wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    I've heard of it before. But if there is no coding involved, how will this help me in the industry?

    How will getting a degree help you in the industry? Surprisingly, the answer is the same... it's a place to start. You are so focused on your degree that you are completely losing sight of the big picture. All your degree tells potential employers is that you meet the bare minimum qualifications needed to get a job. Congrats. You are now exactly the same as every other person that has your degree, only worse because Southern Ohio is not the gaming industry Mecca you may have been led to believe. So right off the bat people in California, Washington, places that already have gaming studios will have an inherent advantage. That advantaged is taken to astronomical extremes if (when) they do internships at those companies. Meanwhile, you are in Southern Ohio, getting your degree. The SAME degree they are getting from University of Washington, or UC Irvine... schools potential employers have actually heard of.

    The reason everyone keeps telling you to actually MAKE something is that it is literally the ONLY thing that will set you apart from the thousands of other "you's" there are out there. What you make will be your creation, not something anyone else can lay claim to. That's why a portfolio is more important then a degree for some industries. In this industry I'd say they are both pretty important, but you are so focused on the one that it almost doesn't even matter where you go, while completely ignoring the one thing that would actually get you a job in the industry.

    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college... Columbus State is a good one if you are near there. Any CC will do though. Do your Gen Ed's, learn the basics of programming. Do your class work and in your off time make games. Make tons of games of all different types. Don't make your DREAM game. Make crap games that will give you the tools to one day make the game you are envisioning. Also, don't underestimate the power of brand name recognition. "The" Ohio State University has fantastic name recognition, and I'm willing to bet their program would be better then the school you mentioned above.

    But if I use a program that doesn't really tell me how it did anything, then how am I gaining experience from that? How is it different from working on RPG Maker? Which I have used countless times before. When it's handed to you, in my opinion. It feels boring. But I'd certainly consider it.

    @KoolEagle: Thanks for the advice.

  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    tysonrss wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    tysonrss wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    I've heard of it before. But if there is no coding involved, how will this help me in the industry?

    How will getting a degree help you in the industry? Surprisingly, the answer is the same... it's a place to start. You are so focused on your degree that you are completely losing sight of the big picture. All your degree tells potential employers is that you meet the bare minimum qualifications needed to get a job. Congrats. You are now exactly the same as every other person that has your degree, only worse because Southern Ohio is not the gaming industry Mecca you may have been led to believe. So right off the bat people in California, Washington, places that already have gaming studios will have an inherent advantage. That advantaged is taken to astronomical extremes if (when) they do internships at those companies. Meanwhile, you are in Southern Ohio, getting your degree. The SAME degree they are getting from University of Washington, or UC Irvine... schools potential employers have actually heard of.

    The reason everyone keeps telling you to actually MAKE something is that it is literally the ONLY thing that will set you apart from the thousands of other "you's" there are out there. What you make will be your creation, not something anyone else can lay claim to. That's why a portfolio is more important then a degree for some industries. In this industry I'd say they are both pretty important, but you are so focused on the one that it almost doesn't even matter where you go, while completely ignoring the one thing that would actually get you a job in the industry.

    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college... Columbus State is a good one if you are near there. Any CC will do though. Do your Gen Ed's, learn the basics of programming. Do your class work and in your off time make games. Make tons of games of all different types. Don't make your DREAM game. Make crap games that will give you the tools to one day make the game you are envisioning. Also, don't underestimate the power of brand name recognition. "The" Ohio State University has fantastic name recognition, and I'm willing to bet their program would be better then the school you mentioned above.

    But if I use a program that doesn't really tell me how it did anything, then how am I gaining experience from that? How is it different from working on RPG Maker? Which I have used countless times before. When it's handed to you, in my opinion. It feels boring. But I'd certainly consider it.

    @KoolEagle: Thanks for the advice.

    If game design were 100% about the coding, you'd have a point. But it's not. You also need to know how to make a game people want to play. Have you done it? Can I play something you made and tell you if I liked it? Can you hand someone something you've made, no matter how you made it, and have them give you feedback on it?

    You know the saying "Writers write?" It's the same thing. If you want to be a writer, you'd better be writing. If you want to design games, you'd better be doing that, with whatever tools you have at your disposal.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Sentry wrote: »
    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college...

    I honestly wished someone would have given me this advise after finishing High School. I think it's something almost everyone should do.

  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    Sentry wrote: »
    tysonrss wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    tysonrss wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    I feel like I'm going in circles here. I want to program and design.

    I've read countless of times of how tedious and annoying it can become.

    Well, nobody wants you to get eaten by sharks after they told you to go ahead & jump in the water, as it were.

    If you want to develop games, you might be able to save a lot of time & pain by just making games on your own without going to school or trying to get a job in the larger games industry.
    Yeah, I think I can prepare myself for a lot of that. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not really good at anything else. I've always been interested in computers and building them and thinking of cool stories. There is ALWAYS a story that plays itself out in my head, and it gets annoying. I figured, why not turn these ideas into video games. I also like art, it's another reason why I prefer video game making. I was thinking about doing the military, but changed my mind. I am interested in the eqiupment and weapons. And so it intrigues me to make video games involving them, something like Metal Gear. In fact, Hideo Kojima is one of the reasons I decided to do this. All the efforts he puts into his games, always taking the hardware to the next level and fully utilizing it. Now THAT is a video game designer. Someone that enjoys what they do.

    You don't sound arrogant, but (I think) most people here with experience in the industry would read this and think that you were about to make a large financial & emotional mistake. Wanting to pour a lot of hard work into something you love is a laudable goal - but I'd urge you to try to do a project on your own before setting-off to embark on a school / employment path that might not be for you.

    This is a very lovely, totally functional, open-source game making program. You don't need to know a lick of coding to use it; just fire it up, follow your design document and go to town.

    Kojima was very fortunate & lived in a very different time, when the video game industry was exploding and costs for producing games were very low.

    I've heard of it before. But if there is no coding involved, how will this help me in the industry?

    How will getting a degree help you in the industry? Surprisingly, the answer is the same... it's a place to start. You are so focused on your degree that you are completely losing sight of the big picture. All your degree tells potential employers is that you meet the bare minimum qualifications needed to get a job. Congrats. You are now exactly the same as every other person that has your degree, only worse because Southern Ohio is not the gaming industry Mecca you may have been led to believe. So right off the bat people in California, Washington, places that already have gaming studios will have an inherent advantage. That advantaged is taken to astronomical extremes if (when) they do internships at those companies. Meanwhile, you are in Southern Ohio, getting your degree. The SAME degree they are getting from University of Washington, or UC Irvine... schools potential employers have actually heard of.

    The reason everyone keeps telling you to actually MAKE something is that it is literally the ONLY thing that will set you apart from the thousands of other "you's" there are out there. What you make will be your creation, not something anyone else can lay claim to. That's why a portfolio is more important then a degree for some industries. In this industry I'd say they are both pretty important, but you are so focused on the one that it almost doesn't even matter where you go, while completely ignoring the one thing that would actually get you a job in the industry.

    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college... Columbus State is a good one if you are near there. Any CC will do though. Do your Gen Ed's, learn the basics of programming. Do your class work and in your off time make games. Make tons of games of all different types. Don't make your DREAM game. Make crap games that will give you the tools to one day make the game you are envisioning. Also, don't underestimate the power of brand name recognition. "The" Ohio State University has fantastic name recognition, and I'm willing to bet their program would be better then the school you mentioned above.

    But if I use a program that doesn't really tell me how it did anything, then how am I gaining experience from that? How is it different from working on RPG Maker? Which I have used countless times before. When it's handed to you, in my opinion. It feels boring. But I'd certainly consider it.

    @KoolEagle: Thanks for the advice.

    If game design were 100% about the coding, you'd have a point. But it's not. You also need to know how to make a game people want to play. Have you done it? Can I play something you made and tell you if I liked it? Can you hand someone something you've made, no matter how you made it, and have them give you feedback on it?

    You know the saying "Writers write?" It's the same thing. If you want to be a writer, you'd better be writing. If you want to design games, you'd better be doing that, with whatever tools you have at your disposal.

    This is very, very good advice. Programming plays a large part in game design, certainly - but before anything's programmed, it has to be designed. And the best way to learn how to design games is twofold. First, play a lot of games. And I mean really, really play them. Analyze them - what works, what doesn't, and what are the reasons? Try to figure out why a game does things the way it does.

    And, number two - make games. Take your ideas and implement them. Learn how to take an idea from 'this sounds cool' through paper prototyping, feedback and iteration, and then actual implementation. It's not easy, and it will teach you an awful lot about why your ideas are bad until you refine them. Because that's true of most people - the original idea, while it -sounds- cool, is probably not very fun. You have to polish, refine, and polish again. That's something that you probably won't learn in school - you can only learn by making games.

    The two and a half years I spent in QA was spent doing exactly that. I got lucky. Lots of people don't. But you can certainly do a lot to tilt things somewhat in your favour, and making games - even without having to do any actual programming - is one of those things.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    For 99% of people, the ONLY difference between a cheap school and an expensive school is the quality of the networking you'll do there. If your goal is to go into game design, unless you're going to a school where lots of other people are likely to go into game design, take the cheapest route and network some other way. In your case, that'd be by designing games that become popular online and teaming up with other people.

    What is this I don't even.
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    tysonrss wrote: »
    But if I use a program that doesn't really tell me how it did anything, then how am I gaining experience from that? How is it different from working on RPG Maker? Which I have used countless times before. When it's handed to you, in my opinion. It feels boring. But I'd certainly consider it.

    @KoolEagle: Thanks for the advice.

    If you are looking at programming as a career or game development as a career or game design with a technical background in development as a career, I recommend you go to a community college for two years and prep for a computer science major. If you make it through those two years and find that you like what you're doing, transfer to a university and complete a bachelor's degree in computer science.

    While doing that you should, as others have said, use all tools at your disposal to be designing and writing anything you can. Games, software applications, stories, whatever the hell you want, or can do. Test yourself and hone your skills. If you actively practice and stretch yourself for four years before getting your degree, you will come out, skillfully, leaps and bounds ahead of the majority of your peers.

    If you're looking for a career in something else and want to make games, then read tutorials online and teach yourself diligently. Take a couple community college classes if you run into roadblocks, because it's very useful to have a modicum of formal programming training. Also, you can teach yourself to be quite proficient at coding by yourself. The computer science degree will offer a breadth of knowledge you are unlikely to come across without a curriculum designed and forced on you, but as a hobbyist game designer/developer seeking to build a portfolio from which to be hired, that's unlikely to matter.

    It is definitely important if you plan to be a video game developer though. Remember that. The stuff they teach you that isn't programming is just as important, if not moreso, to your coding than the programming classes.

  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Sentry wrote: »
    I will reiterate my advice. Go to community college... Columbus State is a good one if you are near there. Any CC will do though. Do your Gen Ed's, learn the basics of programming. Do your class work and in your off time make games. Make tons of games of all different types. Don't make your DREAM game. Make crap games that will give you the tools to one day make the game you are envisioning. Also, don't underestimate the power of brand name recognition. "The" Ohio State University has fantastic name recognition, and I'm willing to bet their program would be better then the school you mentioned above.

    Yeah. This is solid advice. Unless you're an athlete or an engineer and NEED to go to the fantastic city-school in Columbus your first year, go to Columbus State CC. They have a good relationship with OSU that can save you money, but it's not like OSU (or Columbus) is that expensive to begin with.

    OSU has such a wide range of students that, if they're good enough, can become quasi-godking of the world. They also have students that you wonder how they made it past high school. Be the former: knock it out of the park and pay a fraction of the for-profit tuition.

    VeritasVR on
    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    The one "game school" I know for a fact turns out quality is digipen, and it's neither cheap nor easy. Devry has a terrible reputation for good reasons, fullsail I hear mixed things about.

    If you want to be a game designer, make games. Make games and playtest them. it doesn't matter if you code them, if they are made in a preset environment, or if they are elaborate mods for something like gary's mod or second life, or even board or miniature games - make games.

    Show people you can put an idea on paper, realize it in a concrete form, put it in front of an audience, revise it, and push it to market.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    tysonrss wrote: »
    But if I use a program that doesn't really tell me how it did anything, then how am I gaining experience from that? How is it different from working on RPG Maker? Which I have used countless times before. When it's handed to you, in my opinion. It feels boring. But I'd certainly consider it.

    Well, RPG Maker is probably the bottom rung of game design systems.

    You want practical experience? The internet is chock full of 3D modeling and programming tutorials. I mean, up to your freakin' ears. Everything from Hello World on up. Go look them up, put in some hours, and then get involved in the mod scene for your game engine of choice. It's going to take a lot of work, a lot of dedication, and a bit of subtraction from your social life. It's just how it is.

    Honestly, your degree should help you in bettering what you already want to do/have some capability of doing. If you just want to go in to the ambiguous "game design" field, your time and money is going to be wasted and you'll end up at UbiSoft testing the new Splinter Cell for $10 an hour. Graduating with a game design degree is not like the NFL Draft: No company is looking for the "new hot shit" straight outta college, because there are hundreds of people out in the industry that are probably better than you. You're the low man on the totem pole.

    MY ADVICE, and final advice, is... go to college. Go to community college/local state university. Take some general education classes. Talk to a freakin' career field adviser and let them help you. Dip your toes in the water and see how it feels. Every degree looks great on paper until you see what classes you're taking, and seeing these classes in action really will open your eyes to their applicability to the real world (good or bad). I'm currently on my 3rd major change and I'm still technically a freshman (even though I've been going to school since 2005, very off and almost never on).

  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Have you ever worked in an engine like Unreal? It's pretty wild.

    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
Sign In or Register to comment.