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[PATV] Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - Extra Credits Season 4, Ep. 17: Politics

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Posts

  • LaogrithLaogrith Registered User regular
    I'm just glad to see there is honest conversation and debate. The opinions are pretty funny too! Always fun to read forum posts that are so absolute in their convictions that opinions are stated as facts. good fun!

  • BionicDovakinBionicDovakin Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I'd like to be heard, and I do try to make my voice heard, but there's a problem: I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one. Therefore, I'm locked out of doing one of your suggestions.

    Also, I live in Baltimore City, which is over 70% Democratic. If I vote Democrat, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Republican, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Mickey Mouse, the Democrat gets in. I still vote, for the principal of the matter, but I know my vote doesn't really count in the huge bucket since the largely ignorant masses that populate the city are voting Democrat in such numbers that it's been shown statistically that only if EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTER actually goes to vote and votes Republican does the Republican even have a chance of winning. So, there's no real contest in Baltimore City, and it saddens and infuriates me.

    I can understand that feeling. I live in the "Thanks Obama!" south and my state is usually firmly in the red. It's rather depressing at times. I try to keep up with the state and local elections since they can sometimes fall in interesting directions.

    Also, independents can't vote in the primaries because the parties do not want "outsiders" purposely voting for to less popular candidate in order to sabotage the general election. In fact, Rush Limbaugh actually encouraged his listeners to vote in the democratic primary for Hillary Clinton since she was less popular in polls for the general election (illegal and unethical in case you were wondering).

    BionicDovakin on
  • kaggzzkaggzz Registered User new member
    AdmiralMemo wrote:
    I'd like to be heard, and I do try to make my voice heard, but there's a problem: I'm registered as an Independent voter, and Maryland law doesn't allow Independents to vote in the primaries. I don't like either the Democrats or the Republicans, so I'm not going to register as one. Therefore, I'm locked out of doing one of your suggestions.

    For you AdmiralMemo, I'd recommend looking at your local elections for city council and mayor and the like. Hell, go look at who is running for sheriff (if you vote for Sheriff, I know we do here in Florida, but I don't know if that is universal or not), or if your state has individual votes for the various Secretary positions such as commerce or agriculture. This is all about the old "think globally act locally" line you've heard before.

    There are States out there who have open primaries, where you can go vote in any parties primary. Some people go to the opposition parties primary to vote for a candidate they think their guy can beat- assuming their guy is A) unopposed in the primary or B) guaranteed to win in their primary or C) they don't care who gets in on their side so long as X doesn't get in on the other one. Open primaries work about as well as closed. In fact the US has a lot of different ways to vote in the primaries. I would even say as awesome as this episode is, I wish they talked to those of you who live in States with caucuses. In most cases (especially the ever-important early Iowa) you can talk to your fellow voters and try to convince them of choosing a candidate they may not have been there to pick in the first place.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Aurini wrote: »
    This video is hopelessly naive.

    Even though SOPA was blocked, the very next day Megavideo was shut down. The bill itself was just a smokescreen for an action that had been planned long in advance; as it turns out, the legislation wasn't even needed. The federal government in the US will do what it pleases, when it pleases (just look at how many illegal wars Obama has started, without Senate approval). Let's not forget that the owner of Megavideo was sentenced to 50 years, for defying the oligarchs. Absurd.

    Then there's the fact that you keep advocating Democracy; mass democracy is a form of communism, and the Founding Fathers recognized how deadly it is. They were trying to form a Republic, to prevent a Democracy. Democracy inevitably decays to a welfare state, where Group A votes themselves the resources of Group B. Economic and social collapse inevitably follow.

    And then you act as if voting for a political party has the capacity to change anything. The POTUS is a figurehead; the real nodes of power are the Universities which train the media (and thus control information), the Civil Service which is ultimately in control of all legislation, and the military/industrial complex which regulate all small businesses out of existence.

    There is a massive economic collapse coming, a social collapse, and an energy deficit; campaigning for Romney isn't going to change a damned thing. Voting is nothing more than fiddling while Rome burns.

    I would actually be very interested in knowing how the military regulates small businesses out of existence. Please, inform us.

    As for Megaupload. I'm always a bit surprised to hear people outraged at it getting shut down. It was a handful of people who made nearly as much money as Gamestop doing stuff 100 times more immoral and definitely illegal. Also it had nothing to do with SOPA and PIPA, both of which would have given the ability to do what the government did in this situation over to private businesses.

    Dedwrekka on
  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Aurini wrote: »
    This video is hopelessly naive.

    Even though SOPA was blocked, the very next day Megavideo was shut down. The bill itself was just a smokescreen for an action that had been planned long in advance; as it turns out, the legislation wasn't even needed. The federal government in the US will do what it pleases, when it pleases (just look at how many illegal wars Obama has started, without Senate approval). Let's not forget that the owner of Megavideo was sentenced to 50 years, for defying the oligarchs. Absurd.

    Then there's the fact that you keep advocating Democracy; mass democracy is a form of communism, and the Founding Fathers recognized how deadly it is. They were trying to form a Republic, to prevent a Democracy. Democracy inevitably decays to a welfare state, where Group A votes themselves the resources of Group B. Economic and social collapse inevitably follow.

    And then you act as if voting for a political party has the capacity to change anything. The POTUS is a figurehead; the real nodes of power are the Universities which train the media (and thus control information), the Civil Service which is ultimately in control of all legislation, and the military/industrial complex which regulate all small businesses out of existence.

    There is a massive economic collapse coming, a social collapse, and an energy deficit; campaigning for Romney isn't going to change a damned thing. Voting is nothing more than fiddling while Rome burns.

    I would actually be very interested in knowing how the military regulates small businesses out of existence. Please, inform us.

    Wait. I legitimately took the post to be inspired satire.



    Was it not satire?

    I'm kind of sad if it wasn't satire.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • MinuteWaltMinuteWalt Mister Registered User regular
    Ketsuban wrote: »
    The problem with "if you don't vote you can't complain" is that the vast majority of votes just plain don't matter. If I vote and the candidate I voted for doesn't get the most votes, I've just wasted my vote. Under virtually any system other than First Past The Post, my vote is guaranteed to matter at least a little bit, but while I'm still writing on a piece of paper that is virtually guaranteed not to matter, I'm going to keep drawing a penis on the ballot paper.

    The point is if you don't do it, then it doesn't matter. If you do, and your candidate loses... well jeeze, do you expect everything to be determined by your whim? People disagree, that's the point of voting: you won't always get what you want, but at least you have a say in the matter. You haven't "wasted" a vote, it didn't cost you anything but 5 minutes of your time.

    (The penis drawing is, frankly, brilliant btw. I feel torn between encouraging voting and encouraging drawing penises on ballots. I may have to do both.)

  • AuriniAurini Registered User regular
    @Dedwrekka

    The "Military-Industrial Complex" doesn't refer exclusively to the arms industry becoming emeshed in government, and dictating foreign policy. Rather, it's a reference to creeping corporatism, and nepotistic relationshps between big government and big business.

    One example would be the BP oil spill. First, the platform was exempt from regulations under a bit of legislation meant to exempt outhouses in federal parks - not major drilling operations. Then, rather than having a investigation to see if BP had engaged in criminal negligence, they had a closed-door meeting with the CiC. Fox news referred to the result as a 'shakedown', which missed the point - the payout BP made exempted them from public scrutiny, and allowed business to carry on as usual, while making a token gesture for their wrongdoing.

    A second example - and you'll have to forgive me, but I'm a bit hazy on this one - is the Radioactive Porno Scanners the TSA is using. Despite being repeatedly proven to be ineffective against terrorists, the TSA is buying them en mass; turns out, one of the high-end people working for the company selling them (at severall million dollars a pop) used to be a high-level administrator with the TSA.

    Monopolies are nearly impossible on the free market; to have a monopoly, you need force of arms and government support. Businesses lobby government to be involved in Health and Safety regulation; the resultant regulation is designed to support their businesses, while shutting down the little guy. Big companies can afford a giant legal department to negotiate the red tape; the little guy cannot.

    Have you ever wondered why there were more doctors per capita in the US 100 years ago, than there are today? Or why you only have three insurance providers in your state, and you can't go out of state to buy health insurance? Or why it's federally mandated that EVERYBODY pay for things like alcoholism treatment in their health premiums, that you don't have the option of just buying accidental injury insurance?

    Changing the face in the White House won't have an appreciable affect. As I pointed out in my original post (voted down?) the legislation which was being passed to take down Megavideo failed... and they arrested the owner anyways.

    Watch what's happening in Europe: that's what the future is going to look like here. Or you can discount everything I said, and trust the government. I'm probably just crazy.

  • UnensisUnensis Registered User new member
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Aurini wrote: »
    This video is hopelessly naive.

    Even though SOPA was blocked, the very next day Megavideo was shut down. The bill itself was just a smokescreen for an action that had been planned long in advance; as it turns out, the legislation wasn't even needed. The federal government in the US will do what it pleases, when it pleases (just look at how many illegal wars Obama has started, without Senate approval). Let's not forget that the owner of Megavideo was sentenced to 50 years, for defying the oligarchs. Absurd.

    Then there's the fact that you keep advocating Democracy; mass democracy is a form of communism, and the Founding Fathers recognized how deadly it is. They were trying to form a Republic, to prevent a Democracy. Democracy inevitably decays to a welfare state, where Group A votes themselves the resources of Group B. Economic and social collapse inevitably follow.

    And then you act as if voting for a political party has the capacity to change anything. The POTUS is a figurehead; the real nodes of power are the Universities which train the media (and thus control information), the Civil Service which is ultimately in control of all legislation, and the military/industrial complex which regulate all small businesses out of existence.

    There is a massive economic collapse coming, a social collapse, and an energy deficit; campaigning for Romney isn't going to change a damned thing. Voting is nothing more than fiddling while Rome burns.

    I would actually be very interested in knowing how the military regulates small businesses out of existence. Please, inform us.

    As for Megaupload. I'm always a bit surprised to hear people outraged at it getting shut down. It was a handful of people who made nearly as much money as Gamestop doing stuff 100 times more immoral and definitely illegal. Also it had nothing to do with SOPA and PIPA, both of which would have given the ability to do what the government did in this situation over to private businesses.

    Finally, someone who supports the destruction of Megaupload. What Megaupload was doing was taking full, unedited, copywrited, videos and allowing them to be posted. This violates US (and most likely other countries) copywirte laws.

    Now, I would like to move on to the misinformed individual calling themselves "Aurini". I agree, that the take down of Megaupload was most likely in the pipes long before SOPA and PIPA. I also will say that they most likely had a pretty shady plan including the take down and the bills, but it isn't that the bill was a smokescreen. They knew Megaupload was big potatoes, (if you will excuse my cliché) so they planned to preform it's take down after the bills passed so they could go "Hey, look at us, we took down Megaupload with our new legislation, aren't we awesome?". They still built a very strong case against Megaupload so that they could take it down no matter what. The government can not "do whatever it pleases" because there are many people who would say "Hey, you can't do that" if they violated something. Obama has started no wars, as a war has to be signed in by Congress. However since the president is "Commander in Chief", He (or she... someday) is aloud to send in troops. Thats what we did in Libya. It is perfectly legal and has been for years. I agree that his sentence is a bit over done. However the sentence lies in the Judicial branch, which we have less control over due to checks and balances. IE: We vote in the congressmen and president, they make the laws. The Judicial branch enforces them however they deem best.

    I just want to give the Webster Dictionary definition of Democracy and Republic. Democracy: "a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections" Republic: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law". Damn, sound pretty similar, huh?

    Whoa, whoa, suddenly were on the universities, when did they come in? Ok, so wait, now the media? Which... I am confused. I am going to try to make sense of this. First, universities are controlled by people. People choose where they go, people teach, people control (especially state universities), so your universities are effected by public opinion. You say that they control the media through teaching, well, that may be true, but the media controls us, Themistocles (Greek King of Athens) once said "The Athenians govern the Greeks; I govern the Athenians; you, my wife, govern me; your son governs you." to his wife. He shows the ridiculousness things become if over thought. Obviously his son doesn't actually control Greece, but through the logical fallacy of swift generalization (Yes, actually a logical fallacy, look it up) you can end up with absurd answers that make some sort of sudo-sense. Yes, civil service is in control of legislation, what of it? The good man above me asked the question "I would actually be very interested in knowing how the military regulates small businesses out of existence. Please, inform us." I second that, please, explain your reasoning on this.

    Last paragraph, finally. The massive economic collapse. Well, there is no "Huge economic collapse" scheduled for the US. The Eurozone is in some trouble, but that indirectly effects the US and we have no control over that. You must be some sort of prognosticator, come from the future to warn us of our evil ways. Or your just making stuff up... The social collapse is even more far fetched than the Economic one, lastly, the energy deficit needs to be addressed, I agree, but it needs to be addressed by our government. Who brought up campaigning for Romney? You I guess... Uh, well, maybe it will and maybe it wont. However, I will give my personal opinion on this matter, as I see it, the president has very little control outside military action and foreign policy. They can veto, but they can not create, or vote on laws. Your congressmen have much more legislative power. So, yes, I believe that voting for Romney would not change much, but voting for your congressman that best represents you would. Last, is more of a pathos statement. Not much I can do with that as it shouldn't be taken all that seriously.

    I honestly hope that someone read this far, although I doubt many did. And, to Aurini, I hope you disagree with me. I think controversy is what makes humanity so great. We can debate an issue from every side and come out with the best result possible. So, I made a few underhanded sarcastic remarks towards you, and I am sure you could do the same to me, as I am human, not perfect. So, no hard feelings?

  • UnensisUnensis Registered User new member
    edited June 2012
    Sorry, my computer posted my comment twice for some reason, so I edited this. As I am new I do not know how to delete a post or if it is even possible. Sorry.

    Unensis on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    It's up to the copyright holder to post takedown notices. Megaupload--being a user generated data site--had no legal obligation to proactively remove infringing content, just like YouTube, Facebook, Dropbox, and a million other companies. Now if they were told about infringing content and then they refused to take it down, only then are they doing something illegal. Also the fact that the entire site--including all non-infringing content--was taken down without notice means a ton of people using the site legitimately were inconvenienced at the least and lost data they have no way of recovering at worst. Megaupload being taken down is a perfect example of government overreach and the shift of our society from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until I say you're innocent.

    Opty on
  • AuriniAurini Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    @Unensis

    No hard feelings, but you might want to look up what the founding fathers had to say about democracy (I'm still torn on them - evidence points to their rebellion being nothing more than a blatant power grab, and their 'ideology' nothing but a cheap ploy to get the colonies' support - but their writings on the philosophy of governance are fairly profound).

    I wish you were right - that I'm just some sort of doomsday prophet - but even if I'm wrong on one issue leading towards the collapse, there are so many others supporting it. Both theoretically, and evidenciarilly, the signs are very, very bad. Demographic decline, inter-state tension, the rising police state, embedded marxism, keynesian economic bubbles, bought and paid for democracy, the utter failure of the MSM, the education bubble - and heck, that's just getting started.

    I wouldn't normally link to my own blog here - this is a video series about videogames, right? - but I suppose it's relevant here: www.staresattheworld.com . You may disagree with everything I say, but I'm hardly coming at it half-cocked after listening to half an hour of Rush Limbaugh. There are some very bad things afoot in our world, and pretending that voting will fix them is the height of delusion.

    Societies have fallen before; why are you so secure with this one?

    Edit: For the record, I think that Megavideo was an immoral business practice. And you made some good points there... but there's a deeper issue of state lawlessness. I suppose deploying military personell in Africa isn't *technically* an illegal war, if it's just a police action (like Vietnam). But it's scary seeing a Peace Prize winner doing it.

    An expensive enough lawyer can make anything legal.

    Aurini on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Opty wrote: »
    It's up to the copyright holder to post takedown notices. Megaupload--being a user generated data site--had no legal obligation to proactively remove infringing content, just like YouTube, Facebook, Dropbox, and a million other companies. Now if they were told about infringing content and then they refused to take it down, only then are they doing something illegal. Also the fact that the entire site--including all non-infringing content--was taken down without notice means a ton of people using the site legitimately were inconvenienced at the least and lost data they have no way of recovering at worst. Megaupload being taken down is a perfect example of government overreach and the shift of our society from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until I say you're innocent.

    One of the items they were cited for in the trial was having a program that would notify them and mark an item of child-pornography on Megaupload, but they had no intention of removing it, much less take action to remove it.
    Also, for the site owner's stated intention of uploading the entire contents of youtube to Megaupload.

    These guys were anything but innocent, and they made a ton of money off of this stuff.

    Dedwrekka on
  • Phat32Phat32 Registered User new member
    I once got into a huge twitter argument with Kathleen over the voting issue. She, like many, firmly believe if you don't vote you don't have the right to say anything. However I fully disagree. If none of the running reps are providing what you believe in, or are known to go back on key issues and all that why should any of them get my vote? People have said "Well just vote for the one you disagree with the least" and while this is a true statement, if you disagree with all of them to a level that they are not deserving of your vote, they shouldn't get it. I strongly believe not voting can be a powerful tool of protest. Some have told me "Just go in and spoil your ballot then. It sends a strong message" and while I can understand that, I think that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE NOT VOTING sends a pretty strong message. Its often mistaken as general "frak it. I am too lazy" when I see it as "You don't deserve my vote" especially in a time when voting couldn't be easier. So saying you HAVE to vote to have a opinion to me is a load of garbage.

    I like what the senator said about it, your vote matters, if you want you can run yourself but for people that can be very unrealistic. So I think people in power who see people not voting shouldn't at default think "Lazy buggers" and instead say "What am I doing wrong that I haven't earned their votes yet?"

  • JonnyNeroJonnyNero Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    There's an option for that very scenario Phat32. It's called a write-in vote. I'm not an expert on this, but I'm pretty sure your scenario is the exact reason that option is included in ballots.

    The issue I have with your opinion is that if even ONE person votes, it is a valid election. Whenever I hear someone making your argument, I feel like they think people are asking for votes because they get some sort of compensation per vote. Now I wouldn't put it past our leaders to have that incentive in place,but I honestly believe that people who share your opinion look at elections as some sort of marketing scheme, more than a battle.

    The math works out to be, if one person votes on one side of an issue, two people have to vote on the other side to counteract that issue. So it's a constant battle to see which side is more in tune with what the public is thinking. Where I do agree that your vote has very slim chances of "mattering" in an election, I think chances are pretty damn close to zero that every voter will share your opinion of "don't vote because I don't agree with anyone on the ballot."

    The write-in will speak volumes to the political world. Write in John Wayne, Mickey Mouse, Zap Branigan, it doesn't matter because the likely hood of enough write-ins being the same to actually put someone in office is somewhere between your vote mattering, and no one voting. But what you are saying, and what is being heard when write-ins come in, is that you went to vote for a change, and not a single person on the ballot can get the job done. Enough people do that, and that will speak more than just not voting.

    In essence, when they are looking at election results, they really don't care who didn't vote, because it doesn't matter at that point in time. What matters is what the voice of the people who did speak up said, and, to use your words,"if HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE" wrote-in saying what essentially equates to "fuck you!" That will send the strongest message of all.

    P.S. Also, have an up-vote, because I think this discussion is the most important political discussion that we should be having in this era.

    JonnyNero on
  • OneBasicJerkOneBasicJerk Registered User new member
    I think Extra Credits has changed

    Now, as much as I believe that the issues of free speech, censorship, copyright and politics in general are very important, I do believe that EC is going down a path that I think is straying away from the original concept of "exploring game-design and games as an artistic medium".. Instead, the focus seem to be almost politically activistic...

    For the past months, you've been very focused on SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, CISPA and all those other legislations, and that's fine: I agree with your opposition against these, and I agree that we should voice our opposition (as you suggest in this video) but I DO NOT think that it is extra credits' role to motivate a political movement..

    This is of course your show, and if it is your goal is to motivate people politically, then you should do that.. But I started watching Extra Credits, because you took the artistic discussion of games to a whole new level, not because you made an outcry about SOPA and PIPA ..

    Of course, I am nowhere near leaving my spot as a trusty viewer of your show (you are simply too awesome), but I must voice my opposition towards this activism aka. making an entire episode on how to have political influence.. I go to other shows if I need that kind of information/ranting.. I go to Extra Credits because I want to get new information/perceptions on games..

  • kaggzzkaggzz Registered User new member
    @Aurini

    I went looking for this George Washington quote, because I have paraphrased it in the past, but wanted to get it perfect here:

    ... we ought to deprecate the hazard attending ardent and susceptible minds, from being too strongly, and too early prepossessed in favor of other political systems, before they are capable of appreciating their own.

    I think that we have a system that is designed to accept more change then you would believe possible. It is remarkably flexible and every 2-6 years we have a peaceful chance to make meaningful changes to our governance. Compare that to most of the world and you're already ahead of the game.

    I'll be honest, I only really scanned your blog. I'd imagine that economically we'd agree to a point, if maybe for different reasons. I'm very Libertarian, and I believe in as small a government as possible. I would rather use this space to talk about what we can do for gaming and not talk about other political issues.

    Video games are still in the crib as an artistic medium, but we are taking some of our first steps in many other ways. Until we age our way out of the danger zone, we can see damage done to our medium by politicians who don't know what they are doing. Twelve years ago, roughly, the Democrats ran a Vice President who stood on the floor of the Senate twelve years earlier to denounce a video game because he said the goal was to kill half naked hotties and vampires. The problem with this? Night Trap was about killing the vampires and saving the poor members of the "Future pole-dancers Sorority".

    That's not even what I would say this is about. This has a lot more to do with Super Columbine then Mortal Kombat or GTA. I think what @OneBasicJerk is missing about this video and the SOPA/PIPA videos is this IS about gaming art. Most political issues are NOT universal to our community, but the ones that are going to affect this medium need to be addressed by those of us who consume it. Games are not safe and I would hate to see the ESRB become something closer to the Comic Code Authority, which took comic books from something that was growing up with its readers to something that sent mainstream comics to the kiddies table from its inception in 1954 until 1971. Do we want to not be watching when the next CISPA bill comes up, or when a Jack Thompson decides to run for Congress?

    If we don't stand up for Video Games no one will.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    It's up to the copyright holder to post takedown notices. Megaupload--being a user generated data site--had no legal obligation to proactively remove infringing content, just like YouTube, Facebook, Dropbox, and a million other companies. Now if they were told about infringing content and then they refused to take it down, only then are they doing something illegal. Also the fact that the entire site--including all non-infringing content--was taken down without notice means a ton of people using the site legitimately were inconvenienced at the least and lost data they have no way of recovering at worst. Megaupload being taken down is a perfect example of government overreach and the shift of our society from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until I say you're innocent.

    Yes, let's ignore the evidence that the Megaupload staff was fully aware of and supporting people uploading infringing content.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    The real problem is that people always contextualize these things in terms of presidential elections. I mean, obviously with millions and millions of people voting it is highly unlikely that your individual vote will be the one that proves decisive even if you live in a swing state.

    Plus, people look at voting as though it should be the be-all and end-all of the political process, and then get frustrated when they turn in their ballot and feel like they didn't "do" anything. Well, you didn't do much of anything. You filled out a ballot, which is important, but took you how much time? Maybe a couple hours if you bothered to research the downballot races?

    I used to work for an organization that organized volunteers on behalf of state legislative candidates (see signature.) There was a race a few years back in which we supported a candidate who won by forty votes. Forty out of more than twenty thousand. That guy has been holding down one of the major swing districts in the state ever since, and been a decisive part of keeping the state house in Democratic hands.

    Every single person who volunteered with us on that race hit more than 40 doors in an afternoon. In total I think we hit something like 5,000 on his behalf. Any time somebody tells me there's nothing an individual can do to influence the political process, I think of this.
    The write-in will speak volumes to the political world. Write in John Wayne, Mickey Mouse, Zap Branigan, it doesn't matter because the likely hood of enough write-ins being the same to actually put someone in office is somewhere between your vote mattering, and no one voting. But what you are saying, and what is being heard when write-ins come in, is that you went to vote for a change, and not a single person on the ballot can get the job done. Enough people do that, and that will speak more than just not voting.

    In essence, when they are looking at election results, they really don't care who didn't vote, because it doesn't matter at that point in time. What matters is what the voice of the people who did speak up said, and, to use your words,"if HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE" wrote-in saying what essentially equates to "fuck you!" That will send the strongest message of all.

    Not to burst your bubble, but all the people who write in 'mickey mouse' or whatever are pretty much the same as nonvoters to a campaign. Perhaps to you it seems like an irreverent way to send a message, but nobody who works on a campaign cares (even assuming they could somehow understand that writing in 'mickey mouse' meant you wanted to vote for 'change.')

    Politicians don't care about people who write in mickey mouse, or even people who tell them "fuck you," because people who are motivated to write 'mickey mouse' on their ballot because they think it's some kind of statement about democracy generally aren't motivated to do anything else.

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • AdmiralMemoAdmiralMemo Trekkie Extraordinaire Baltimore, Maryland, USARegistered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    Also, I live in Baltimore City, which is over 70% Democratic. If I vote Democrat, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Republican, the Democrat gets in. If I vote Mickey Mouse, the Democrat gets in. I still vote, for the principal of the matter, but I know my vote doesn't really count in the huge bucket since the largely ignorant masses that populate the city are voting Democrat in such numbers that it's been shown statistically that only if EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTER actually goes to vote and votes Republican does the Republican even have a chance of winning. So, there's no real contest in Baltimore City, and it saddens and infuriates me.
    Your vote counts exactly as much as all the other votes does: it counts for one.
    Yeah. The fact that my vote counts the same as a party-line lemming combined with the fact that the city is FILLED with party-line lemmings is what pisses me off.
    kaggzz wrote: »
    For you AdmiralMemo, I'd recommend looking at your local elections for city council and mayor and the like. Hell, go look at who is running for sheriff (if you vote for Sheriff, I know we do here in Florida, but I don't know if that is universal or not), or if your state has individual votes for the various Secretary positions such as commerce or agriculture. This is all about the old "think globally act locally" line you've heard before.
    Oh, believe me, I do. General election comes around, and I vote on EVERYTHING.

  • cxsanchezcxsanchez Registered User regular
    Video games deemed "violent" are banned in my country, Venezuela. There's no clear standard for what constitutes a "violent" game, so effectively all games are banned and cases are judged arbitrarily by cops and soldiers that usually raid stores and sellers. This includes "violent" toys as well (and thus, board/card/miniature games as well).

    As a gamer, a board game designer, and supporter of local video game designers, is a great hurdle to actually developing a market and an industry in our country.

    So PLEASE vote, participate and don't let your voice go down.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Yeah. The fact that my vote counts the same as a party-line lemming combined with the fact that the city is FILLED with party-line lemmings is what pisses me off.

    Ah, there's that "look at me, I'm so much smarter than the hoi polloi" attitude that annoys me. Have you ever looked to find out why your district is so solid blue? Or are you just going to assume that it's because most of the voters don't think?

    Again, if having a voice is important to you, why don't you go register as a Democrat, so you can affect their primary?

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I think Extra Credits has changed

    Now, as much as I believe that the issues of free speech, censorship, copyright and politics in general are very important, I do believe that EC is going down a path that I think is straying away from the original concept of "exploring game-design and games as an artistic medium".. Instead, the focus seem to be almost politically activistic...

    For the past months, you've been very focused on SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, CISPA and all those other legislations, and that's fine: I agree with your opposition against these, and I agree that we should voice our opposition (as you suggest in this video) but I DO NOT think that it is extra credits' role to motivate a political movement..

    This is of course your show, and if it is your goal is to motivate people politically, then you should do that.. But I started watching Extra Credits, because you took the artistic discussion of games to a whole new level, not because you made an outcry about SOPA and PIPA ..

    Of course, I am nowhere near leaving my spot as a trusty viewer of your show (you are simply too awesome), but I must voice my opposition towards this activism aka. making an entire episode on how to have political influence.. I go to other shows if I need that kind of information/ranting.. I go to Extra Credits because I want to get new information/perceptions on games..

    What's more important to you - your sources of entertainment remaining STRICTLY entertainment driven, or knowing that your sources of entertainment will occasionally speak up to help fight on issues you know are important and agree with? Because I consider it disheartening when a show of any format ignores real problems that affect things that the show is about.

  • solanusdraconsolanusdracon Registered User new member
    Another amazing resource for people to keep abreast of what is going on in our nation's capitol, opencongress.org. This website not only finds your representatives, but lets you see which bills are up, lets you see the full text of the bill, read commentary about it for and against and so on. You can then click a SINGLE button to send an email to ALL of your congressmen/women at once. It's incredibly easy and a wonderfully powerful tool for becoming a part of the situation.

  • IstasIstas Registered User regular
    Eliminating gerrymandering by having districts fixed by an arbitrary algorithm would be a good, feasible step towards improving accurate and fair voter representation.
    Switching away from a plurality voting system and towards a system that allowed voters to vote for candidates they actually support (instead of voting against the most-likely-to-win candidate they least support) is a good idea too.
    These would both give more (and more responsible) candidates the opportunity to run, and give voters the ability to more confidently express their choices without feeling like they're fighting a losing battle.

  • vonbaronhansvonbaronhans Registered User new member
    Wow. This episode actually brought tears to my eyes. Feeling empowered and knowing that someone out there with some power actually cares about the things I care about... it is sublimely encouraging on a very fundamental level. Thank you, Extra Credits, for bringing your knowledge on the context within which the gaming industry resides and your presentation prowess to bear on the important issues threatening one of my most cherished hobbies.

  • TarrkerTarrker PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    It's very heartening to know that there's someone in congress that sort of one of us. I remember hearing about this guy and thinking that the whole "I play games" thing was just gimmick. So glad I was wrong :)

  • mhoffbauermhoffbauer Registered User new member
    The tragedy of Democracy is that your vote doesn't count, but saying that votes count does.

  • Pete1Pete1 Registered User new member
    James spoke at MU recently? I just went to orientation there! That's so cool that people like James speak there, I'm just sad I'm going to school there a year to late to see him!

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Good episode, nice to hear someone in Congress thinks the same things as I do about citizen involvement. I can think of a few forumers I'll be linking here.

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  • dejavu,againdejavu,again Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    The real problem here, which amazingly (or perhaps not) no one has addressed: the fact that my email, my letter, my phone call, counts for almost nothing alongside the call from a lobbyist or billionaire who "tacitly implies" that their campaign contribution(s) will continue if the representative votes for Bill (X), and might send it to their competitor if they don't.

    It's not bribery and extortion of votes. It's just that they give your campaign money if you vote for their side, and they'll spend the campaign money on other officials if you don't. Totally different things. Right?

    (100% factual. A former lobbyist wrote an entire book on these practices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Punishment_(book) You might've seen this guy on Colbert or Bill Mahr)

    dejavu,again on
  • GhoXenGhoXen Registered User new member
    Campaign money is great, but it isn't as important as popularity. A single personal opinion obviously won't matter much, but millions of personal opinions all opposing a single idea will trump any sum of campaign money.

    What's the point of leading a campaign if you already know that a good portion of the voting population disagrees with your policies?

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