Answer to the infamous salary expectation question, help

acidlacedpenguin

Hey guys, just writing up an email replying to the question and I was hoping I could get a second opinion on my reply before I send it off. I've checked that the industry average local to my area puts this position in the range of 52k to 62k. My current salary is 60k, and my work experience hits quite a few of the bullets in the job posting, so I figure I should fall in the upper area of the range anyway.

"Given my current salary and the work experience I've gained I think it would be reasonable to expect salary in the range of 55k to 65k, that said, salary isn't my primary motivator; interesting work is worth more to me than maximizing my paycheck."

In my mind's eye it feels like asking for a little more shows confidence and the bit about my motivator shows I'm flexible and considering the job out of interest for the job, but there's this nagging feeling that asking for slightly more might show arrogance and the flexibility might show that I'm a weak pushover type.

Deebaser

acidlacedpenguin wrote:

that said, salary isn't my primary motivator; interesting work is worth more to me than maximizing my paycheck."

This is a terrible way to start negotiations.

NotYou

Don't ask for a range unless you're HOPING to get the bottom of the range. Any negotiations will begin at 55k.

Also, I find it odd that you'd ask for less than your current salary. Do they know what you're currently making? Shouldn't you be asking for a boost in salary to lure you away from your current job?

illig

Why would you ask less than you currently make? Never give a range - give a number thats 15-20% higher than your current and use that to start negotiations. If they can't hit it, and you really want to work there, ask for other concessions like extra vacation time, or flex work schedule, etc.

bowen

I'd go at least your current salary. Add 20%, though, who knows that average might be skewed low by some outliers and they may be a high payer and you just downballed yourself by selling yourself for more.

Bonus points if you use your bullet points as justification for that 20%.

acidlacedpenguin

So if I ask for 60k to 65k and they're expecting to pay me around 55k, wouldn't I be shooting myself in the foot?

anyway, if I dropped the salary motivation part, and upped the salary range it would work out better?

edit: the reason for asking for less than I'm making is because of the premium my current employer has to pay because of their extreme location disadvantage (it's like 60km from civilization, 150km from my city) Though the last interviewer I talked to for a different job got thrown off when I asked for less.

darqness

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

So if I ask for 60k to 65k and they're expecting to pay me around 55k, wouldn't I be shooting myself in the foot?

anyway, if I dropped the salary motivation part, and upped the salary range it would work out better?

edit: the reason for asking for less than I'm making is because of the premium my current employer has to pay because of their extreme location disadvantage (it's like 60km from civilization, 150km from my city) Though the last interviewer I talked to for a different job got thrown off when I asked for less.

They won't just drop you. They'll say they were expecting to pay 55k and you either re-negotiate from there, or take it.

You'd already be shooting yourself in the foot saying 55k-60k and then go on to say that the pay isn't your primary motivator.

bowen

Yeah personally I'd go.. "I'm looking in the 67-72K range. I put myself in this range because of X, Y, and Z which I've reduced costs and saved money for the business (change this line to better suit what you did and justify why you think you put yourself in that range). That range is negotiable."

And then work out like stock options, profit sharing, better health coverage, flex time, etc.

Also make sure you looked at CoL where you're moving (if you are at all). You don't want to be in some podunk town in the middle of nowhere and be making $60K and then go to NYC and go "wow $70K is higher than I was making!"

EggyToast

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

So if I ask for 60k to 65k and they're expecting to pay me around 55k, wouldn't I be shooting myself in the foot?

anyway, if I dropped the salary motivation part, and upped the salary range it would work out better?

edit: the reason for asking for less than I'm making is because of the premium my current employer has to pay because of their extreme location disadvantage (it's like 60km from civilization, 150km from my city) Though the last interviewer I talked to for a different job got thrown off when I asked for less.

You're negotiating, not shooting yourself in the foot. You're actually shooting yourself in the foot if you offer to take a pay cut. We don't know the circumstances, so I'll assume you want to make this job change and you're currently employed.

If you feel that you are overpaid for the area/job, I'd suggest being blunt and to the point and just say "My current salary is $60k. What are you offering?"

Companies have every reason to get you to give them a number saying "I will work for X dollars." You want to try very hard to not give them that, by stating what you're currently being paid and have them offer you something, because then you can negotiate from a position of knowledge. As soon as you give them a number, they'll use that as the high point.

If the company really wants you and needs your skills, they're not going to care about $5k a year.

Darkewolfe

If you ask for 65k they'll say "Well, how about 55k." It never gets negotiated upwards, it ALWAYS gets negotiated downwards. The only time I didn't get negotiated downwards was because I'd accidentally lowballed myself, and then I spent the next two years kicking myself over the fact that I had 20-40k less than I would have for my time if I'd just said a different number out loud.

JohnnyCache

Probably too late, but I'd calculate your total comp (your pay counting benefits) multiply it buy 1.1 and ask for that much total comp. Then your flexibility can come in the ratio of salary to other comp

acidlacedpenguin

Awesome, thanks for the advice guys. Now i just have to do some cramming about JSPs and ITIL processes, then figure out some meaningful questions to ask during my technical interview tomorrow.

Ganluan

Many places have pre-set ranges they designate for various job ranks, which means they already have a range in mind when asking you. If you go way too high, they will simply not respond because you seem unrealistic (I know, I do this myself). If you are a bit high then there's room to negotiate, and going low will always result in getting less.

I am a hiring manager for technical positions, for what it's worth.

bowen

Ah but that's all relative.

If I throw out $75k a year because I'm making $65 now, and your job posting, which doesn't include salary, is for $10 an hour because some people are terrible in general, how the shit am I going to know? $50,000 would be obscene in that regards.

This is why people who don't post salary ranges for positions they're hiring for are terrible, let's save some time people. (General rant)

And yes, I've been offered $10 an hour to do a job that has more requirements than my $25 an hour one.

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

The thing to remember is that, unless you give them an incredibly outlandish number, it's not going to offend anybody; it will be interpreted as a starting point for negotiation.

The advice I have heard is that you should ask for a 10% increase on any pure lateral move; maybe they'll give it to you, and if not, you've built in a cushion.

Dr. Frenchenstein

i actually got paid more for the job i currently have. They said the range was X-Y, i was asking Y and i got Y+3k. i didn't expect, nor do i ever expect to have that happen again.

acidlacedpenguin

welp I doubt it matters now, just froze up and sounded like a complete idiot on the technical interview.

NotYou

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

welp I doubt it matters now, just froze up and sounded like a complete idiot on the technical interview.

I've done that before and still got the job. There's still hope!

Ganluan

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

welp I doubt it matters now, just froze up and sounded like a complete idiot on the technical interview.

Some of the best candidates I've interviewed are the ones who felt like they did the worst, so don't be too hard on yourself. When you conduct a lot of interviews, you get used to the interviewee being nervous.

@bowen: The reason many places don't post ranges is because HR controls that facet, and they rule with an iron fist.

MegaMan001

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

welp I doubt it matters now, just froze up and sounded like a complete idiot on the technical interview.

I once spent the length of an interview talking about my love of College Football and tailgating and I forgot about the entire question alltogether.

Some thirty minutes later I think I said "I wanted to work with you guys cause <insert bullshit>...I LOVE TAILGATING"

Still got the job, no worries.