Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[PA Comic] Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - Absolutely Not

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited June 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub

Posts

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Well, you could sell that one for three hundred and one dollars, I guess.

    I stopped playing Diablo 3 after two or three days and didn't look much at the AH, but can you sell things after you've started using them or does it bind when used and you can only sell items you pick up and bring straight to auction?

    SabreMau on
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Well, you could sell that one for three hundred and one dollars, I guess.

    I stopped playing Diablo 3 after two or three days and didn't look much at the AH, but can you sell things after you've started using them or does it bind when used and you can only sell items you pick up and bring straight to auction?

    No gear in Diablo binds.

    7UVunkN.jpg
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Well, you could sell that one for three hundred and one dollars, I guess.

    I stopped playing Diablo 3 after two or three days and didn't look much at the AH, but can you sell things after you've started using them or does it bind when used and you can only sell items you pick up and bring straight to auction?

    No gear in Diablo binds.

    [Nitpickmode] Except the Collector's Edition items. These are account bound [/Nitpickmode]. But yeah everything which drops can be given away, used, lend, sold as you want.

    Dratatoo on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Buyer's remorse.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Without binding it seems like there should eventually be a gear flood that would make even the Ultimate Soulflayer of Superior Soulflaying worthless.

  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Buyer's remorse.

    Yeah, this is the joke. The time he spent searching the AH for an awesome item could have been spent farming for an even better item. Sure he could turn around and put it back on the AH, but that's not the point being made.

    ?username=KoopahTroopah&theme=light

    Steam - Battle.net - Koopah089 - PSN/Xbox - 1639-6388-9968/KoopahTroopah - Switch
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    Without binding it seems like there should eventually be a gear flood that would make even the Ultimate Soulflayer of Superior Soulflaying worthless.

    Oh there's lots of gear flooding the auction houses.

    There's also a ton of gear that you'll find in game with useless stats.

  • NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    Without binding it seems like there should eventually be a gear flood that would make even the Ultimate Soulflayer of Superior Soulflaying worthless.
    Yeah, they're going to need to create some kind of item sink.

    At the moment, the vast majority of drops are crap but a tiny proportion are awesome and those get sold on the AH, for a lot of money. The problem is those items will never disappear, they can be resold when you outgrow them. And more and better items will eventually drop. So the prices will drop and drop across the board. Eventually awesome items will be so cheap that the game will be trivially easy - difficulty is fixed. Except for patches.

    The only restriction on the free market at the moment is that you can only sell 10 things at once, which prevents middlemen from buying & selling items en masse but it doesn't solve the basic problem.

    Introducing bind-on-equip would solve the problem but people would hate it. If a cool item dropped, you couldn't even try it out if you wanted to sell it. You would be an item miner not a player.

    However what they could do is to say that any item can only be sold once. The finder can use it, then sell it whenever they want, but the buyer can only sell it to the vendors.

  • kingworkskingworks Registered User regular
    So ... can I enjoy this game by myself, or is it pretty much a straight-up online multiplayer?

    Forgive my ignorance.

  • SticksSticks Registered User regular
    You can play by yourself, for yourself, and with yourself.

  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

    Don't forget that Blizzard is taking (minimum) a 15% cut of each sale. So Axe Man here could recoup some of his loss, or sell the better one for even more, but Blizz gets paid no matter what he does.

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • GriswoldGriswold (a superset of all possible mathematics) (his body disintegrated)Registered User regular
    Apogee wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

    Don't forget that Blizzard is taking (minimum) a 15% cut of each sale. So Axe Man here could recoup some of his loss, or sell the better one for even more, but Blizz gets paid no matter what he does.

    bzzt, wrong

    Blizzard takes a dollar. It's PayPal that takes 15%, should you choose to use that payout method.

    Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
    Path of Exile: snowcrash7
    FFBE: 449,418,519 (Sleuth)
    MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    Griswold wrote: »
    Apogee wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

    Don't forget that Blizzard is taking (minimum) a 15% cut of each sale. So Axe Man here could recoup some of his loss, or sell the better one for even more, but Blizz gets paid no matter what he does.

    bzzt, wrong

    Blizzard takes a dollar. It's PayPal that takes 15%, should you choose to use that payout method.

    AFAIK, converting your money from BlizzBucks(TM) to actual cash is a 15% cut, no matter how you do it. Only way around that is to buy more Diablo III gear on the RMAH or buy something from Blizzard directly (i.e. Heart of the Swarm).

    8R7BtLw.png
  • El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
    I went on the gold AH once, and after a few quick purchases found that the next 15 levels or so were trivially easy. I vowed to stay off the AH after that.

    It's hard to even come up with a parallel example from other games. Yes, the RMAH is just like any other pay to play system, you can easily purchase a win if you have deep enough pockets and a corresponding lack of brains. But buying stuff on the in-game gold auction house, it's like having other thousands of other people who are your personal Pindle-bots on steroids. You're basically trading your time for theirs and the exchange is almost trivial.

    I know that Wilson & Co. were vehemently against item binding, but goddamn, this game will be a virtual ghost town within a year because there will be nothing left to get or earn for most players.




  • RazalgrimRazalgrim Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Prepping up my DH to farm Act 3-4 Hell wearing full Indestructible and Gold Find gear in a bid for constant, self-sufficient income. Hopefully this makes mowing down hordes of non-elites actually rewarding, as opposed to just clogging my trunk with yellow shit that isn't gonna sell anyway.

    I like buying from the AH, I hate trying to sell all my almost-adequate junk. RMAH? Never gonna touch it.

    Razalgrim on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    kingworks wrote: »
    So ... can I enjoy this game by myself, or is it pretty much a straight-up online multiplayer?
    Forgive my ignorance.
    Sticks wrote: »
    You can play by yourself, for yourself, and with yourself.
    As Sticks said, you can play by yourself, but the game still requires you to be online, even if you're running solo.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    Without binding it seems like there should eventually be a gear flood that would make even the Ultimate Soulflayer of Superior Soulflaying worthless.
    Yeah, they're going to need to create some kind of item sink.

    At the moment, the vast majority of drops are crap but a tiny proportion are awesome and those get sold on the AH, for a lot of money. The problem is those items will never disappear, they can be resold when you outgrow them. And more and better items will eventually drop. So the prices will drop and drop across the board. Eventually awesome items will be so cheap that the game will be trivially easy - difficulty is fixed. Except for patches.

    The only restriction on the free market at the moment is that you can only sell 10 things at once, which prevents middlemen from buying & selling items en masse but it doesn't solve the basic problem.

    Introducing bind-on-equip would solve the problem but people would hate it. If a cool item dropped, you couldn't even try it out if you wanted to sell it. You would be an item miner not a player.

    However what they could do is to say that any item can only be sold once. The finder can use it, then sell it whenever they want, but the buyer can only sell it to the vendors.

    Or you could just have items degrade over time.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    kingworks wrote: »
    So ... can I enjoy this game by myself, or is it pretty much a straight-up online multiplayer?
    Forgive my ignorance.
    Sticks wrote: »
    You can play by yourself, for yourself, and with yourself.
    As Sticks said, you can play by yourself, but the game still requires you to be online, even if you're running solo.

    As for the needed item sink, I'm betting it's going to come from the blacksmith in later patches/expansions.
    My bet: Overpowered account bound gear that can only be crafted and takes a crap load of materials (from all difficulties) to even get a chance at. Thus, everything on the AH becomes desirable, if only for the chance to break it down into components to get the really cool crafted stuff.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • FTVFTV Registered User regular
    Wait... people are spending actual money for these things? So... essentially, you can pay someone else... for easy mode? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THESE IDEAS.

  • CandymancerCandymancer Registered User regular
    Can't he just use one in each hand? Or do barbs not do that anymore?

    Sincerely, The Joke Overanalyzer.

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    FTV wrote: »
    Wait... people are spending actual money for these things? So... essentially, you can pay someone else... for easy mode? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THESE IDEAS.

    You see they are monetizing the synergies of... I don't know either.

  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I will never *spend* any money on the RMAH. I may eventually sell something, and thus earn money, but I already spent $60 for this game, so I have no intention of spending a dime more... I'm only open to unspending money.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Buyer's remorse.

    Yeah, this is the joke. The time he spent searching the AH for an awesome item could have been spent farming for an even better item. Sure he could turn around and put it back on the AH, but that's not the point being made.

    Yes, I am well aware it was the joke and point.

    That said, I thought there was a $100 limit on accounts for the RMAH? Furthermore, I thought listing items cost the auctioner to give up a percentage of the asking price?

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I quite enjoyed this comic.

  • marsiliesmarsilies Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    That said, I thought there was a $100 limit on accounts for the RMAH? Furthermore, I thought listing items cost the auctioner to give up a percentage of the asking price?

    From
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-functionality#q17
    Once your Battle.net Balance exceeds $250 USD (or equivalent local currency), you will not be able to post new Battle.net Balance auctions until you spend your balance below that amount. In cases where your Battle.net Balance significantly exceeds this maximum (as the result of a series of especially high bids for items you posted, for example), you will be instructed to create a PayPal account in order to receive the proceeds of your auctions less a 15% transaction fee (in regions where PayPal is available).
    So there's no upper limit on how much something can sell for, since the balance can exceed $250, just with additional restrictions imposed on the account.

    For a detailed listing of fees, check here:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/items/auction-house#fees

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Apogee wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    Apogee wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

    Don't forget that Blizzard is taking (minimum) a 15% cut of each sale. So Axe Man here could recoup some of his loss, or sell the better one for even more, but Blizz gets paid no matter what he does.

    bzzt, wrong

    Blizzard takes a dollar. It's PayPal that takes 15%, should you choose to use that payout method.

    AFAIK, converting your money from BlizzBucks(TM) to actual cash is a 15% cut, no matter how you do it. Only way around that is to buy more Diablo III gear on the RMAH or buy something from Blizzard directly (i.e. Heart of the Swarm).
    The only way (in the US at least) to convert BlizzBucks to cash is via PayPal. PayPal takes it's 15% cut from the sale price, and then Blizzard takes their dollar. If commodities and gold are ever enabled on the RMAH, Blizz will take 15% from them I believe.
    marsilies wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    That said, I thought there was a $100 limit on accounts for the RMAH? Furthermore, I thought listing items cost the auctioner to give up a percentage of the asking price?

    From
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-functionality#q17
    Once your Battle.net Balance exceeds $250 USD (or equivalent local currency), you will not be able to post new Battle.net Balance auctions until you spend your balance below that amount. In cases where your Battle.net Balance significantly exceeds this maximum (as the result of a series of especially high bids for items you posted, for example), you will be instructed to create a PayPal account in order to receive the proceeds of your auctions less a 15% transaction fee (in regions where PayPal is available).
    So there's no upper limit on how much something can sell for, since the balance can exceed $250, just with additional restrictions imposed on the account.
    The upper limit on an individual item is also $250. What that's saying is that if you had say $150 in your account and then sold something for $200, you'd have way exceeded the Blizzbucks limit and would have to cash it out via PayPal. Which is as far as I know the only way to turn something that sold for BlizzBucks into real bucks, because you have to specify at the time of posting the sale how you want it to go. You can't accrue a bunch through small auctions and cash out at once.
    Dratatoo wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Well, you could sell that one for three hundred and one dollars, I guess.

    I stopped playing Diablo 3 after two or three days and didn't look much at the AH, but can you sell things after you've started using them or does it bind when used and you can only sell items you pick up and bring straight to auction?

    No gear in Diablo binds.

    [Nitpickmode] Except the Collector's Edition items. These are account bound [/Nitpickmode]. But yeah everything which drops can be given away, used, lend, sold as you want.
    Further [nitpickmode]And the Staff of Herding with its associated materials.[/nitpickmode]

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    Apogee wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    Apogee wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Ok, so the comic is:
    1. He buys a cool axe.
    2. Yurf!
    3. He gets an even cooler axe.

    So the story ends, he's got two axes, and can freely sell either of them. Thought the punchline would be "Aw, man, I spent $300 and it turns out I didn't have to!" but he can just turn around, put it back on the AH, and get at least most of that money back? Unless he overpaid and there aren't other buyers who'd go for that much.

    Don't forget that Blizzard is taking (minimum) a 15% cut of each sale. So Axe Man here could recoup some of his loss, or sell the better one for even more, but Blizz gets paid no matter what he does.

    bzzt, wrong

    Blizzard takes a dollar. It's PayPal that takes 15%, should you choose to use that payout method.

    AFAIK, converting your money from BlizzBucks(TM) to actual cash is a 15% cut, no matter how you do it. Only way around that is to buy more Diablo III gear on the RMAH or buy something from Blizzard directly (i.e. Heart of the Swarm).
    The only way (in the US at least) to convert BlizzBucks to cash is via PayPal. PayPal takes it's 15% cut from the sale price, and then Blizzard takes their dollar. If commodities and gold are ever enabled on the RMAH, Blizz will take 15% from them I believe.
    marsilies wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    That said, I thought there was a $100 limit on accounts for the RMAH? Furthermore, I thought listing items cost the auctioner to give up a percentage of the asking price?

    From
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-functionality#q17
    Once your Battle.net Balance exceeds $250 USD (or equivalent local currency), you will not be able to post new Battle.net Balance auctions until you spend your balance below that amount. In cases where your Battle.net Balance significantly exceeds this maximum (as the result of a series of especially high bids for items you posted, for example), you will be instructed to create a PayPal account in order to receive the proceeds of your auctions less a 15% transaction fee (in regions where PayPal is available).
    So there's no upper limit on how much something can sell for, since the balance can exceed $250, just with additional restrictions imposed on the account.
    The upper limit on an individual item is also $250. What that's saying is that if you had say $150 in your account and then sold something for $200, you'd have way exceeded the Blizzbucks limit and would have to cash it out via PayPal. Which is as far as I know the only way to turn something that sold for BlizzBucks into real bucks, because you have to specify at the time of posting the sale how you want it to go. You can't accrue a bunch through small auctions and cash out at once.
    Dratatoo wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Well, you could sell that one for three hundred and one dollars, I guess.

    I stopped playing Diablo 3 after two or three days and didn't look much at the AH, but can you sell things after you've started using them or does it bind when used and you can only sell items you pick up and bring straight to auction?

    No gear in Diablo binds.

    [Nitpickmode] Except the Collector's Edition items. These are account bound [/Nitpickmode]. But yeah everything which drops can be given away, used, lend, sold as you want.
    Further [nitpickmode]And the Staff of Herding with its associated materials.[/nitpickmode]

    Blizzard takes a dollar for every item sale, and a 15% cut if you "cash out" by transferring your funds to Paypal. Paypal does not get a 15% cut for holding your money.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Had nobody at blizzard heard of supply and demand when they decided to have no item removal mechanism in the game at all?

  • SticksSticks Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Had nobody at blizzard heard of supply and demand when they decided to have no item removal mechanism in the game at all?

    The people that built WoW? Yea, I'm thinking they've heard the term a few times...

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    There is an item removal aspect: destroying it for crafting mats. Unfortunately that's not a valid enough avenue when you can sell it and use that cash to buy something better. They'd need to really buff up crafting to get people to destroy gear instead of selling it.

  • marsiliesmarsilies Registered User regular
    The only way (in the US at least) to convert BlizzBucks to cash is via PayPal. PayPal takes it's 15% cut from the sale price, and then Blizzard takes their dollar. If commodities and gold are ever enabled on the RMAH, Blizz will take 15% from them I believe.
    Blizzard takes a dollar for every item sale, and a 15% cut if you "cash out" by transferring your funds to Paypal. Paypal does not get a 15% cut for holding your money.
    Actually, it looks like the 15% transfer fee is split between Blizzard and PayPal:
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-functionality#q12
    Note that the process of sending proceeds to a third-party payment service will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service.
    Paypal typically charges around 3% for receiving money from auctions or other types of sales:
    https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us/fees

  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    marsilies wrote: »
    The only way (in the US at least) to convert BlizzBucks to cash is via PayPal. PayPal takes it's 15% cut from the sale price, and then Blizzard takes their dollar. If commodities and gold are ever enabled on the RMAH, Blizz will take 15% from them I believe.
    Blizzard takes a dollar for every item sale, and a 15% cut if you "cash out" by transferring your funds to Paypal. Paypal does not get a 15% cut for holding your money.
    Actually, it looks like the 15% transfer fee is split between Blizzard and PayPal:
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-functionality#q12
    Note that the process of sending proceeds to a third-party payment service will be subject to applicable fees charged by Blizzard and the third-party payment service.
    Paypal typically charges around 3% for receiving money from auctions or other types of sales:
    https://cms.paypal.com/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us/fees

    I'm sure Paypal does get a taste, but I believe that section refers to additional fees that Paypal may charge:
    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-general-information#q10
    Sending proceeds to PayPal will be subject to an additional 15% transfer fee if the auction succeeds, calculated based on the amount being transferred. Additional fees from PayPal may apply.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Opty wrote: »
    There is an item removal aspect: destroying it for crafting mats. Unfortunately that's not a valid enough avenue when you can sell it and use that cash to buy something better. They'd need to really buff up crafting to get people to destroy gear instead of selling it.

    Yeah, destruction through salvage and people just walking away from the game (with their gear still on) are it. And it's not going to be enough. It's probably why I find the HC auction house (which is gold-only) more interesting...because theoretically everybody should be wearing the best gear they can get their hands on, and if/when they die that gear all goes poof.

    I'll be unsurprised if in some future patch/expansion they introduce some form of item removal. It'd be easy, hell just patch it so that it costs more to repair than you could possibly earn through play, then make it so that items that lose all durability go poof. If they don't already, I haven't let anything get down to zero. So basically you'd have to put your good items in the stash and grind with shit items (found or auction house) to earn the gold to repair the good shit. But this still means that low level and mid level items get ground down, and at some point so will high level ones.

    EDIT: Obviously this would mean getting rid of indestructible items? I dunno. Forgot about that.

    mcdermott on
Sign In or Register to comment.