Ugh, that may be tough now that they're staggered. I may need to mount an expedition into the Chaos Wastes and spawn camp them. I hope there's something cool to see over there.
Edit: P.S. stacking -attack effects is as stupidly effective as it seems. I've got a -attack aura cloak and -attack aura armor, they add up to like -30 total or so. It's ridiculous, even good units only have 30-40 skill. Heroes kitted out for melee defense are untouchable. I had the Lord + 4 heroes tie up and destroy an entire army while my troops just watched from a nearby hill.
I mean killing chaos permanently doesn't really fit with the theme of warhammer very much. It's supposed to be a constant threat and only a matter of time before it rises up again.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I mean killing chaos permanently doesn't really fit with the theme of warhammer very much. It's supposed to be a constant threat and only a matter of time before it rises up again.
You are able to stop them permanently in this; as Turambar said, you just have to wait for Archaon to show up and then wipe out all of the remaining stacks at once, before any of the others can respawn.
So is it "Kill Archaon last" or "Kill them all within 3 turns of each other" The former is much easier, I find that the hordes love to spread out.
I think it'd be fine fluff wise, too, it should take longer for random simmering chaos cults to emerge as full blown hordes of demonically empowered warriors :P
So is it "Kill Archaon last" or "Kill them all within 3 turns of each other" The former is much easier, I find that the hordes love to spread out.
I think it'd be fine fluff wise, too, it should take longer for random simmering chaos cults to emerge as full blown hordes of demonically empowered warriors :P
I killed Archaon first, then the others a little bit later.
Marienburg and Wissenland were both super cool bros and were like "lets be bffs" and I was like, kay.
Stirland was also all about being bros except that they wanted to drag me into wars with every fucking one. So I conquered the shit out of them. No rampaging orks this time so I was free to wipe the floor with the vampires.
Right now I've got Stirland, East and West Sylvania, Hochland, and almost all of Middenland. Talabecland are kind of pissy with me, but everyone else loves the shit out of me and I have a bunch of battle wizards, warrior priests, and big fucking guns to fight Chaos with.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Marienburg and Wissenland were both super cool bros and were like "lets be bffs" and I was like, kay.
Stirland was also all about being bros except that they wanted to drag me into wars with every fucking one. So I conquered the shit out of them. No rampaging orks this time so I was free to wipe the floor with the vampires.
I had some similar issues with one of the dwarven minor factions in my Dwarfs game. In that case I made a counterproposal to be confederated instead of getting dragged into the war and they accepted. Likely a good thing for them too, they did not have the manpower to fight that far from any of their allies.
Marienburg and Wissenland were both super cool bros and were like "lets be bffs" and I was like, kay.
Stirland was also all about being bros except that they wanted to drag me into wars with every fucking one. So I conquered the shit out of them. No rampaging orks this time so I was free to wipe the floor with the vampires.
I had some similar issues with one of the dwarven minor factions in my Dwarfs game. In that case I made a counterproposal to be confederated instead of getting dragged into the war and they accepted. Likely a good thing for them too, they did not have the manpower to fight that far from any of their allies.
Yeah, basically all the dwarves other than Zufbar (who were basically like "hey we're neighbors, let's be nice k?") are pissy and a PITA until Chaos comes. Even after I purged the greenskins I couldn't get the time of day from most of them. Then Chaos roll in and they're like "HEY COUSIN, WHAT NICE ARMIES YOU HAVE TO FIGHT CHAOS WITH, LETS BE FRIENDS"
Giving gifts seem pretty effective way of improving diplomatic relations. I was able to get non-aggression treaties with several Dwarf factions as Vampire Counts just by giving small gifts.
I went pretty heavy into a Legendary Empire game. It has been quite tough... the Darkest days are yet around the corner. I have stemmed the Doom Tide twice. Does this have an effect on delaying the Everchosen? I swear in my Very Hard Greenskins game the Doom Tide was never stalled even once and the full invasion happened on like... turn 60. This time I am at 90 without the Everchosen.
Man. Maybe it is legendary but... it is impossible to trade. I have throw thousands... like 4-6k just to get people to think about trading.
Additionally ALL of my subjugated vassals have broken ties and declared war like 5-10 turns later.
Vassalization is odd too. Can you only have one vassal...? I cannot make dwarves nearby vassals...? In my Greenskins campaign I strongarmed the Vampire Counts into service all game with ease...
The short answer is no, you messed up somewhere. As empire you have to be very picky about who you ally with. What is most likely happened is that you NAP'd with someone who was enemies with your allies. They didn't like that. Then you got a military or defensive alliance with one of them. Then one declared on the other and dragged you into it. Forcing you to break one of the treaties.
All of a sudden you're not trustworthy and all the allies of one side hate your guts. People don't want trade deals with you because they don't think you're going to not just take it back.
Additionally gifts work better individually. Wait a turn for a "for nothing" gift to take effect then start diplomacy
I have never had a defensive or military alliance this game.
I have had maybe 1-2 Non-aggression pacts ever. I have a good reliablity rating! I can't check it now... and the words that describe those are vague at best... but I don't think it has dropped.
If you have no NAP's then you have no trade deals because no one likes you because no one has had treaties with you for long enough. First you agree to not send agents into their lands to shit their stuff up. Then you agree to trade. Then you agree to let armies go through your lands without calm and so on and so forth.
You should be steadfast(its what you start out as as Empire and iirc its the highest)
You have a path of conquest, but there will be plenty of factions that you can woo into tradedeals and then confederate later on.
When it comes to dwarves you have common goals, so I tend to NAP factions like Zhubar (the enemy of my enemy) as soon as I can. Military access is good too.
I also tend to NAP most brettonia factions, but I'm a bit more leery about military access for those since they're competing for the same provinces.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
Thanks for the information on the poison debuff, I'll give the poison units more of a shot next time. It's a pity that some of this stuff is buried in the UI though. Would it really be that hard for them to add it to the online encyclopedia thing they use in game?
It is. It either says "Poison/Poison Attacks" or something similar and has a poison icon next to its melee skills on its unit card. You don't even have to specifically go to it's page, you just have to mouseover it.
Thanks for the information on the poison debuff, I'll give the poison units more of a shot next time. It's a pity that some of this stuff is buried in the UI though. Would it really be that hard for them to add it to the online encyclopedia thing they use in game?
It is. It either says "Poison/Poison Attacks" or something similar and has a poison icon next to its melee skills on its unit card. You don't even have to specifically go to it's page, you just have to mouseover it.
The encyclopedia page won't tell you more than "it has poison attacks" though. Since I would only go there looking for detail it would be nice if they included what poison does on that page, especially considering it takes you straight there if you right click the unit.
The game definitely needs a good manual or tutorial. There are tons of things people who haven't played other Total War games won't know. Even basic stuff like how archers have friendly fire or how all the stats work or what the depth/width of unit do or just simple UI stuff like how to make all your troops move while keeping formation or how to make sure you get as many of the troops in a unit to engage as possible instead of just having them clump up where half the units aren't even getting into the fight, etc.
Turn 5, full 20 stack dwarf army sieges my army in a minor settlement. Game over.
I really don't feel good about the Dwarf-Greenskins balance. Orcs can't do shit to Dwarfs, just, at all.
Every Dwarf unit is very highly armoured and good in melee. Greenskins have 0 armour piercing until Black Orcs which are T4 or trolls in T3. I just don't know what they except you to do, a unit of Boyz can barely fight a unit of miners to a victory.
I charged Orc Boar Boyz into the back of a unit of isolated quarrellers and they lost, not just a little, they inflicted barely any casualties despite being shock cavalry in a charge. By the time I had pulled them back to start a second charge they had taken 2 volleys of fire and lost half their number, then routed.
It seems like the only strategy is to have double the number of units, which just isn't possible until you've actually taken control of some provinces, and will also make for very tedious battles managing 40 units at once.
I finished VC on hard last night. It was an awful slog to wipe out the Dwarfs and the Empire, took about 340 turns and I wasn't even fighting any battles, just auto-resolving my 80:20 power ratios a million times because they cover so much ground and spam so many armies. I haven't done the long objectives, which just involves wiping out Bretonnia. Victory is/was inevitable, it was just a long drawn out process.
Crypt Horrors are MVP, then Terrorgheists. Horrors are great for basically anything that isn't a flame weapon user. Boy I wish I could recruit these into an Orc army.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Orcs have like twice the numbers that dwarfs do. So if you go wide you will catch twice the numbers of troops. Use defensive troops to do this and flank with the rest.
There isn't a good answer to Quarrelers though.
Re: poison. You can mouse over the icon but yea this stuff being online would be nice.
The game definitely needs a good manual or tutorial. There are tons of things people who haven't played other Total War games won't know. Even basic stuff like how archers have friendly fire or how all the stats work or what the depth/width of unit do or just simple UI stuff like how to make all your troops move while keeping formation or how to make sure you get as many of the troops in a unit to engage as possible instead of just having them clump up where half the units aren't even getting into the fight, etc.
Wait you can move your dudes in their current formation!
Care to share?
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
+1
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
The encyclopedia being offline would also be nice.
Orcs have like twice the numbers that dwarfs do. So if you go wide you will catch twice the numbers of troops. Use defensive troops to do this and flank with the rest.
There isn't a good answer to Quarrelers though.
Re: poison. You can mouse over the icon but yea this stuff being online would be nice.
Best early answer I've found for quarrelers is to have 2-3 goblin archers/arrer boyz focus on one of the squads until it routs, then repeat. Ideally you also have some wolf riders that can harry one or more of them as they're running to further add to the casualties and try to make sure they don't come back.
Also, I've been discovering the wonderfulness that is a successful ambush. being able to start a fight with your forces already flanking an enemy's missile troops and artillery with the infantry out of a position to defend is an extremely powerful way to start a battle, especially vs. dwarfs.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
That doesn't help at the start of the game. There are two full dwarf stacks outside my borders, I'm trapped in a single settlement and surrounded on all sides.
Orcs don't even get to start researching upgrades until you hit T3 and then spend a construction slot on it.
Here is turn 20
Arrival of full 20 unit Dwarf armies: turn 5, turn 8, turn 10.
I killed one of those armies with a waaagh, I've been attacked by other Orc faction armies 6 times and none will make peace with me even though I've beaten their armies and sacked their settlements. I can't take any settlements because I can't defend them, the dwarf armies move in immediately. All of the Dwarf factions either confederated immediately or were payed off to go to war with me.
Those Dwarf armies btw are like 9 Warriors, 6 Quarrellers and 4 Grudge Throwers.
Dwarf basic units just shit on Orc basic units unanimously and there's no time or settlement space to get anything better.
It's basically 'hope the Dwarf armies go bother something else for a few turns so you can make a move'. Except the other Orc factions are just crumbling in the face of the Dwarf armies. Anything that isn't armour piercing is doing 1 or 5 damage to the Dwarfs, and that's basically every Greenskin unit. Even Big Un'z aren't armour piercing.
Other than conceding Iron Rock I haven't actually lost a fight, I just can't gain any ground.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
orcs and skaven (when they get released) would really benefit from not being forced into a maximum of 20 units per army.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
orcs and skaven (when they get released) would really benefit from not being forced into a maximum of 20 units per army.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
That's the point of the fightiness mechanic. Get a free army for aggression and take them on adventures, so your opponent has to rebuild instead of murdering you when they are gone
orcs and skaven (when they get released) would really benefit from not being forced into a maximum of 20 units per army.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
That would make quite a bit of sense actually. The higher number of soldiers per unit does some work in closing this gap, but not enough. Part of the weakness of Chaos warriors in the tabletop game is that they are easy to flank, but that isn't much help when their lines are just as wide as yours and flanked by swarms of the heaviest cavalry in the game.
Then again, the way the unit cap favors quality over quantity of units has been part of TW games for as long as I can remember.
Fuck everything else, shoot them with all of the artillery.
Hellfire rocket batteries fucking rule. All you got to do is blow them up like woah coming in.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
That doesn't help at the start of the game. There are two full dwarf stacks outside my borders, I'm trapped in a single settlement and surrounded on all sides.
Orcs don't even get to start researching upgrades until you hit T3 and then spend a construction slot on it.
Here is turn 20
Arrival of full 20 unit Dwarf armies: turn 5, turn 8, turn 10.
I killed one of those armies with a waaagh, I've been attacked by other Orc faction armies 6 times and none will make peace with me even though I've beaten their armies and sacked their settlements. I can't take any settlements because I can't defend them, the dwarf armies move in immediately. All of the Dwarf factions either confederated immediately or were payed off to go to war with me.
Those Dwarf armies btw are like 9 Warriors, 6 Quarrellers and 4 Grudge Throwers.
Dwarf basic units just shit on Orc basic units unanimously and there's no time or settlement space to get anything better.
It's basically 'hope the Dwarf armies go bother something else for a few turns so you can make a move'. Except the other Orc factions are just crumbling in the face of the Dwarf armies. Anything that isn't armour piercing is doing 1 or 5 damage to the Dwarfs, and that's basically every Greenskin unit. Even Big Un'z aren't armour piercing.
Other than conceding Iron Rock I haven't actually lost a fight, I just can't gain any ground.
Greenskins have arguably the hardest start of all the (non-DLC) races; You're surrounded by all sides with factions more than happy to war with you, at least one (or in your case, two) with starting units that are arguably straight-up better than yours, and unlike VC, you can't same-turn raise troops and your lands aren't a no-mans land for anyone you might accidentally piss off.
It looks like one piece of silver lining to your predicament is that you have a pretty decent bank since you're not building any buildings. You're best bet might simple be churning out as many armies as you can afford (it looks like you already have a second going, or is that your Waaagh?) of cheap units and going two armies to every one until you get a Waaagh! or two going. I'd go for a Goblin Great Shaman myself; Sneaky Stabbin' is a pretty great equalizer against Dwarf units.
Also, Ambushes man. Set Grimgor in ambush stance between the Dwarf army and a second bait army close enough for one to reinforce the other. If they see Grimgor, no harm done, but if they don't, Dwarfs run into Grimgor, you start an ambush, you charge their quarrelers and grudge throwers from two sides and pin them before they can get a shot off and then you're just dealing with infantry you already have 60% surrounded. I've won SO many fights I had no business doing so (so sayeth the balance of power thing) doing that, and the one thing I miss the most on my current WoC playthrough is that the hordes can't ambush.
orcs and skaven (when they get released) would really benefit from not being forced into a maximum of 20 units per army.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
That would make quite a bit of sense actually. The higher number of soldiers per unit does some work in closing this gap, but not enough. Part of the weakness of Chaos warriors in the tabletop game is that they are easy to flank, but that isn't much help when their lines are just as wide as yours and flanked by swarms of the heaviest cavalry in the game.
Then again, the way the unit cap favors quality over quantity of units has been part of TW games for as long as I can remember.
I think that's partly why playing WoC, Hordes give each other pretty intense (and unavoidable) attrition if they are too close. Most battles are going to be your single horde army vs. whatever's on the other side unless you played it so your hordes come together at the last moment.
Yeah I started a second army on turn 6 so I could reinforce my besieged main army on turn 9. That was the first dwarf stack.
I sat around in my settlement for a while and Chaos showed up, two of the Dwarf armies moved out so I cornered the third and finally got my home province back.
I'm at turn 90 now. Long story short, the Dwarfs are all dead and I'm mopping up the last of the Top knots in the south-east. The biggest hurdle right now is obedience, I have a province rebelling every turn because I can't keep it all in order with my 4 armies.
Other issue right now is I have basically no heroes other than a gobbo assassin. Playing musical chairs with settlements for the past 50 turns means nothing substantial has gotten built so no increased hero caps.
Most of my armies are actually still boyz and various goblins. I have access to black orcs and trolls but not had the time to reinforce them (6 turns on global). Most of my fights have been won by baiting them in to a line of Boyz and dropping the itchy debuff on them, then focusing them down with night goblins. The top knots are all savage orcs so they have no armour and my legions of goblin archers is actually fine.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Ugh,,....287 turns as Chaos on hard...finally finished off the campaign.
The Skaeling rats had been a thorn in the great Lord Archaeon's host for many a decade, until in the final days of the great unification, our lessor hordes began their march to the south. The Kislevites had provided much favor to our masters, but the agents of the lesser gods proved to keep our marauders at bay....
Lord Archaeon himself was to march south, but a lessor agent of Chaos had decided to reveal himself as traitor, being the keeper of secrets manifest in flesh. We pitied the fledgling chicken hawk, as he stood no chance against Khorne's chosen upon the fields of the chaos waste.
I have more to add, but damn is the horde mechanic made impossible to play as at the start. I don't think it will be a second playthrough for some time, but once you got up and running it's only a matter of time before you win. BTW, fire armor and the basic necromancy spell are the bomb.
Some interesting quirks I've discovered with magic that I've found;
1.) There are two types of Vortex spells, ones that go around randomly like normal, and those that go in a straight line away from the caster until the spell ends. Examples of the second that I've found are Flame Storm of the Lore of Fire, and Wind of Death of the Lore of Vampires.
2.) I've had a Foot of Gork on overcast almost oneshot two units of Chaos Warriors squished together (large squad sizes), but not do nearly as much to some Empire spearman. Need some more testing, because setting those Chaos Warriors from eager -> rout in a single spellcast was totally worth it and would like to be able to repeat that trick regularly.
3.) Magic Missile spells will home in on it's target with uncanny accuracy when aimed at flying creatures, and do pretty good (if not quite Spirit Leech-level) damage in the process, as Louen Leoncour and his Pegasus found out when he thought he could run away from my Goblin Great Shaman, the faux-French fuck.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
I am too bad at this game to be able to play chaos
the scripted event is effectively a game over, every time
orcs and skaven (when they get released) would really benefit from not being forced into a maximum of 20 units per army.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
That's the point of the fightiness mechanic. Get a free army for aggression and take them on adventures, so your opponent has to rebuild instead of murdering you when they are gone
yeah waaagh armies help with sieges.
Only you gotta hope the waagh army actually comes close enough to be in reinforcement range (99% of the time it will).
But a field battle with a waaagh army backing you up. forget about it, you can't initiate one because no ai army will move right next to two stacks and attack them on its own. Meaning you have to attack it. only your waaagh army doesn't move during your turn so your actual army will have to fight on its on. Basically you won't ever fight an enemy army with a waaagh backing you up, leaving your orcs trying to fight an army of equal numbers basis, thus nagating their main advantage of numbers.
either horde armies like orcs, skaven and undead should get bigger army unit limits, or factions which use elite units (Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, Elves) should have a smaller maximum army size (15).
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I've killed him 3 times now but he keeps coming back. Sigvald the Magnificent has reappeared once, haven't seen the other two again, though.
I kinda like fighting them but I've got Orc problems and my allies are useless. It'd be nice to free up some armies.
Edit: P.S. stacking -attack effects is as stupidly effective as it seems. I've got a -attack aura cloak and -attack aura armor, they add up to like -30 total or so. It's ridiculous, even good units only have 30-40 skill. Heroes kitted out for melee defense are untouchable. I had the Lord + 4 heroes tie up and destroy an entire army while my troops just watched from a nearby hill.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
You are able to stop them permanently in this; as Turambar said, you just have to wait for Archaon to show up and then wipe out all of the remaining stacks at once, before any of the others can respawn.
I think it'd be fine fluff wise, too, it should take longer for random simmering chaos cults to emerge as full blown hordes of demonically empowered warriors :P
I killed Archaon first, then the others a little bit later.
Marienburg and Wissenland were both super cool bros and were like "lets be bffs" and I was like, kay.
Stirland was also all about being bros except that they wanted to drag me into wars with every fucking one. So I conquered the shit out of them. No rampaging orks this time so I was free to wipe the floor with the vampires.
Right now I've got Stirland, East and West Sylvania, Hochland, and almost all of Middenland. Talabecland are kind of pissy with me, but everyone else loves the shit out of me and I have a bunch of battle wizards, warrior priests, and big fucking guns to fight Chaos with.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I had some similar issues with one of the dwarven minor factions in my Dwarfs game. In that case I made a counterproposal to be confederated instead of getting dragged into the war and they accepted. Likely a good thing for them too, they did not have the manpower to fight that far from any of their allies.
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Yeah, basically all the dwarves other than Zufbar (who were basically like "hey we're neighbors, let's be nice k?") are pissy and a PITA until Chaos comes. Even after I purged the greenskins I couldn't get the time of day from most of them. Then Chaos roll in and they're like "HEY COUSIN, WHAT NICE ARMIES YOU HAVE TO FIGHT CHAOS WITH, LETS BE FRIENDS"
Crotchedy bastards.
Man. Maybe it is legendary but... it is impossible to trade. I have throw thousands... like 4-6k just to get people to think about trading.
Additionally ALL of my subjugated vassals have broken ties and declared war like 5-10 turns later.
Vassalization is odd too. Can you only have one vassal...? I cannot make dwarves nearby vassals...? In my Greenskins campaign I strongarmed the Vampire Counts into service all game with ease...
All of a sudden you're not trustworthy and all the allies of one side hate your guts. People don't want trade deals with you because they don't think you're going to not just take it back.
Additionally gifts work better individually. Wait a turn for a "for nothing" gift to take effect then start diplomacy
I have had maybe 1-2 Non-aggression pacts ever. I have a good reliablity rating! I can't check it now... and the words that describe those are vague at best... but I don't think it has dropped.
You should be steadfast(its what you start out as as Empire and iirc its the highest)
You have a path of conquest, but there will be plenty of factions that you can woo into tradedeals and then confederate later on.
When it comes to dwarves you have common goals, so I tend to NAP factions like Zhubar (the enemy of my enemy) as soon as I can. Military access is good too.
I also tend to NAP most brettonia factions, but I'm a bit more leery about military access for those since they're competing for the same provinces.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
It is. It either says "Poison/Poison Attacks" or something similar and has a poison icon next to its melee skills on its unit card. You don't even have to specifically go to it's page, you just have to mouseover it.
The encyclopedia page won't tell you more than "it has poison attacks" though. Since I would only go there looking for detail it would be nice if they included what poison does on that page, especially considering it takes you straight there if you right click the unit.
Turn 5, full 20 stack dwarf army sieges my army in a minor settlement. Game over.
I really don't feel good about the Dwarf-Greenskins balance. Orcs can't do shit to Dwarfs, just, at all.
Every Dwarf unit is very highly armoured and good in melee. Greenskins have 0 armour piercing until Black Orcs which are T4 or trolls in T3. I just don't know what they except you to do, a unit of Boyz can barely fight a unit of miners to a victory.
I charged Orc Boar Boyz into the back of a unit of isolated quarrellers and they lost, not just a little, they inflicted barely any casualties despite being shock cavalry in a charge. By the time I had pulled them back to start a second charge they had taken 2 volleys of fire and lost half their number, then routed.
It seems like the only strategy is to have double the number of units, which just isn't possible until you've actually taken control of some provinces, and will also make for very tedious battles managing 40 units at once.
I finished VC on hard last night. It was an awful slog to wipe out the Dwarfs and the Empire, took about 340 turns and I wasn't even fighting any battles, just auto-resolving my 80:20 power ratios a million times because they cover so much ground and spam so many armies. I haven't done the long objectives, which just involves wiping out Bretonnia. Victory is/was inevitable, it was just a long drawn out process.
Crypt Horrors are MVP, then Terrorgheists. Horrors are great for basically anything that isn't a flame weapon user. Boy I wish I could recruit these into an Orc army.
There isn't a good answer to Quarrelers though.
Re: poison. You can mouse over the icon but yea this stuff being online would be nice.
Wait you can move your dudes in their current formation!
Care to share?
Best early answer I've found for quarrelers is to have 2-3 goblin archers/arrer boyz focus on one of the squads until it routs, then repeat. Ideally you also have some wolf riders that can harry one or more of them as they're running to further add to the casualties and try to make sure they don't come back.
Also, I've been discovering the wonderfulness that is a successful ambush. being able to start a fight with your forces already flanking an enemy's missile troops and artillery with the infantry out of a position to defend is an extremely powerful way to start a battle, especially vs. dwarfs.
Somebody on Reddit was in the process of pulling the entire encyclopedia offline so it should be pslossible shortly
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Orcs don't even get to start researching upgrades until you hit T3 and then spend a construction slot on it.
Here is turn 20
Arrival of full 20 unit Dwarf armies: turn 5, turn 8, turn 10.
I killed one of those armies with a waaagh, I've been attacked by other Orc faction armies 6 times and none will make peace with me even though I've beaten their armies and sacked their settlements. I can't take any settlements because I can't defend them, the dwarf armies move in immediately. All of the Dwarf factions either confederated immediately or were payed off to go to war with me.
Those Dwarf armies btw are like 9 Warriors, 6 Quarrellers and 4 Grudge Throwers.
Dwarf basic units just shit on Orc basic units unanimously and there's no time or settlement space to get anything better.
It's basically 'hope the Dwarf armies go bother something else for a few turns so you can make a move'. Except the other Orc factions are just crumbling in the face of the Dwarf armies. Anything that isn't armour piercing is doing 1 or 5 damage to the Dwarfs, and that's basically every Greenskin unit. Even Big Un'z aren't armour piercing.
Other than conceding Iron Rock I haven't actually lost a fight, I just can't gain any ground.
Their strength is numbers and that gets negated when you have fight an equal number of units made of better quality troops. Chaos/dwarfs just outmuscle them with their better troops. You basically need two armies to follow each other and always fight together to get a proper orc experience numbers wise.
That's the point of the fightiness mechanic. Get a free army for aggression and take them on adventures, so your opponent has to rebuild instead of murdering you when they are gone
That would make quite a bit of sense actually. The higher number of soldiers per unit does some work in closing this gap, but not enough. Part of the weakness of Chaos warriors in the tabletop game is that they are easy to flank, but that isn't much help when their lines are just as wide as yours and flanked by swarms of the heaviest cavalry in the game.
Then again, the way the unit cap favors quality over quantity of units has been part of TW games for as long as I can remember.
Fuck everything else, shoot them with all of the artillery.
Hellfire rocket batteries fucking rule. All you got to do is blow them up like woah coming in.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Greenskins have arguably the hardest start of all the (non-DLC) races; You're surrounded by all sides with factions more than happy to war with you, at least one (or in your case, two) with starting units that are arguably straight-up better than yours, and unlike VC, you can't same-turn raise troops and your lands aren't a no-mans land for anyone you might accidentally piss off.
It looks like one piece of silver lining to your predicament is that you have a pretty decent bank since you're not building any buildings. You're best bet might simple be churning out as many armies as you can afford (it looks like you already have a second going, or is that your Waaagh?) of cheap units and going two armies to every one until you get a Waaagh! or two going. I'd go for a Goblin Great Shaman myself; Sneaky Stabbin' is a pretty great equalizer against Dwarf units.
Also, Ambushes man. Set Grimgor in ambush stance between the Dwarf army and a second bait army close enough for one to reinforce the other. If they see Grimgor, no harm done, but if they don't, Dwarfs run into Grimgor, you start an ambush, you charge their quarrelers and grudge throwers from two sides and pin them before they can get a shot off and then you're just dealing with infantry you already have 60% surrounded. I've won SO many fights I had no business doing so (so sayeth the balance of power thing) doing that, and the one thing I miss the most on my current WoC playthrough is that the hordes can't ambush.
I think that's partly why playing WoC, Hordes give each other pretty intense (and unavoidable) attrition if they are too close. Most battles are going to be your single horde army vs. whatever's on the other side unless you played it so your hordes come together at the last moment.
I sat around in my settlement for a while and Chaos showed up, two of the Dwarf armies moved out so I cornered the third and finally got my home province back.
I'm at turn 90 now. Long story short, the Dwarfs are all dead and I'm mopping up the last of the Top knots in the south-east. The biggest hurdle right now is obedience, I have a province rebelling every turn because I can't keep it all in order with my 4 armies.
Other issue right now is I have basically no heroes other than a gobbo assassin. Playing musical chairs with settlements for the past 50 turns means nothing substantial has gotten built so no increased hero caps.
Most of my armies are actually still boyz and various goblins. I have access to black orcs and trolls but not had the time to reinforce them (6 turns on global). Most of my fights have been won by baiting them in to a line of Boyz and dropping the itchy debuff on them, then focusing them down with night goblins. The top knots are all savage orcs so they have no armour and my legions of goblin archers is actually fine.
The Skaeling rats had been a thorn in the great Lord Archaeon's host for many a decade, until in the final days of the great unification, our lessor hordes began their march to the south. The Kislevites had provided much favor to our masters, but the agents of the lesser gods proved to keep our marauders at bay....
Lord Archaeon himself was to march south, but a lessor agent of Chaos had decided to reveal himself as traitor, being the keeper of secrets manifest in flesh. We pitied the fledgling chicken hawk, as he stood no chance against Khorne's chosen upon the fields of the chaos waste.
I have more to add, but damn is the horde mechanic made impossible to play as at the start. I don't think it will be a second playthrough for some time, but once you got up and running it's only a matter of time before you win. BTW, fire armor and the basic necromancy spell are the bomb.
1.) There are two types of Vortex spells, ones that go around randomly like normal, and those that go in a straight line away from the caster until the spell ends. Examples of the second that I've found are Flame Storm of the Lore of Fire, and Wind of Death of the Lore of Vampires.
2.) I've had a Foot of Gork on overcast almost oneshot two units of Chaos Warriors squished together (large squad sizes), but not do nearly as much to some Empire spearman. Need some more testing, because setting those Chaos Warriors from eager -> rout in a single spellcast was totally worth it and would like to be able to repeat that trick regularly.
3.) Magic Missile spells will home in on it's target with uncanny accuracy when aimed at flying creatures, and do pretty good (if not quite Spirit Leech-level) damage in the process, as Louen Leoncour and his Pegasus found out when he thought he could run away from my Goblin Great Shaman, the faux-French fuck.
the scripted event is effectively a game over, every time
Apparently they're rad against vamp monsters or regenerative dudes. Probably morale breakers too.
yeah waaagh armies help with sieges.
Only you gotta hope the waagh army actually comes close enough to be in reinforcement range (99% of the time it will).
But a field battle with a waaagh army backing you up. forget about it, you can't initiate one because no ai army will move right next to two stacks and attack them on its own. Meaning you have to attack it. only your waaagh army doesn't move during your turn so your actual army will have to fight on its on. Basically you won't ever fight an enemy army with a waaagh backing you up, leaving your orcs trying to fight an army of equal numbers basis, thus nagating their main advantage of numbers.
either horde armies like orcs, skaven and undead should get bigger army unit limits, or factions which use elite units (Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, Elves) should have a smaller maximum army size (15).