something about the way you were acting. or some such. not sure what it was exactly. maybe it was something said, i know I came to the conclusion/thought/idea after re-reading the thread. (hence why my post is later in the day)
It does seem odd, and this is coming from someone not too experienced, that part of the meta would be that most of the players need to affect a disinterested casual attitude toward death just to keep the village from murdering them. Don't wewant active players who don't want to leave games?
Well it's not to prevent you from being murdered. Odds are you are still gonna get murdered by the bw. It's just survival shouldn't be your goal if you are a villager. If you are part of the network and are confirmed...that is slightly different. You are slightly higher priority and odds are you wouldn't end up in that situation . But if you are expendable , spend what time you have to point out shit you think is weird. And the red vote speaks fairly loud. Unless you go "meh....blah blah"
I can understand that for a villager, but as an SK it is a whole different ballgame. I suppose my inexperience with the role screwed me over as I didn't know how to act outside of "just play it like you normally do." Anybody want to hand out some pointers for what I should have done as a survival/SK type that I didn't do/went completely opposite of here? I'm sure I would have died at some point during the game (Saber kind of hinted as much :P), but the fact I died so early kind of irks me a bit.
There is a reason there are so few (unheard of) SK victories...
I haven't played in very many games either. It seems like the role of the SK is not to win, but to thin out the numbers and keep things moving along. Also, even if you figure you're going to lose, it must be pretty fun just snapping people in half every night.
When it comes to villagers and activity, remember that the mafia can't kill all of them. At least not right away. The more people being active and talking, the more targets the mafia has to hit to control the discussion. It also provides a lot more breathing room for your specials to contribute without standing out a ton.
Another thing to consider is time: we all only have so much of it. As a villager, we spend our time PMing one another and theorizing in the thread. A mafia member (particularly in the first few days) has to figure out what all the mafia abilities are, theorize how best to use them, discuss targets amd theiry with his fellow mafia, and figure out what's going on with village roles so he can have a cover. On top of that, they need to PM with people and discuss in the thread. Everything they do publicly takes significantly more time for mafia than for a villager, because you need to think through things to endure they sound good but serve your purpose. As a villager, if you're wrong, it's not nearly as much of an issue.
Finally, if you get a reputation for being a thinking villager, you are far more likely to be seered or guarded day 1. Lucedes had no reason to target me other than we'd worked together before and she knew that I was likely to be an early target.
Figured that was you Langly :evil: One day I will return as the true zombie shark-then I will have my revenge revengerevenge
I'm actually quite glad I moved my Day 1 target at the last minute. I had you as my target all day long just because I wanted to kill you for being the Lady Belmont in Gumpy's game. :P
Finally, if you get a reputation for being a thinking villager, you are far more likely to be seered or guarded day 1. Lucedes had no reason to target me other than we'd worked together before and she knew that I was likely to be an early target.
The only reason I didn't kill you off right away. I needed somebody to talk to.
Kilnaga on
"The psychedelic mind is a higher dimensional mind, it is not fit for three dimensional space time."
- Terence McKenna
Everything they do publicly takes significantly more time for mafia than for a villager, because you need to think through things to endure they sound good but serve your purpose. As a villager, if you're wrong, it's not nearly as much of an issue.
when i'm mafia, i play 100% sleeper agent. i don't say or do anything i wouldn't do as a villager. i play the roles totally separately.
i guess my strategy is sort of like kime's? that is, it's hard to tell whether i'm evil or not, because the behaviors aren't any different.
also, i tend to be totally wrong as a villager. when i'm mafia, my aim improves noticeably. which is, uh, sort of a liability, sometimes.
Everything they do publicly takes significantly more time for mafia than for a villager, because you need to think through things to endure they sound good but serve your purpose. As a villager, if you're wrong, it's not nearly as much of an issue.
when i'm mafia, i play 100% sleeper agent. i don't say or do anything i wouldn't do as a villager. i play the roles totally separately.
i guess my strategy is sort of like kime's? that is, it's hard to tell whether i'm evil or not, because the behaviors aren't any different.
also, i tend to be totally wrong as a villager. when i'm mafia, my aim improves noticeably. which is, uh, sort of a liability, sometimes.
Hah. So if you start to make sense, it's time to off you. That sucks.
the game is also about reading people. so if you are very talkative and helpful and helpful as a villager, it can be a dead tell when you are mafia. one of the benefits if you are a player who remains consistent and doesn't have an extreme personality (hard to replicate).
the game is also about reading people. so if you are very talkative and helpful and helpful as a villager, it can be a dead tell when you are mafia. one of the benefits if you are a player who remains consistent and doesn't have an extreme personality (hard to replicate).
Yeah, always play the way you normally do in the public thread regardless of your role. Improves your chances of survival when you get a special role (seer, SK, vig or mafioso) if you always seem like a vanillager.
The only reason I want to improve my networking is because that will be a liability for me. It'll certainly help me if i have a bead on where things are going whether I'm mafia, villager or something else. It also makes me less of a tempting target for network heads too, if I manage to make contact. Not being a borderline poster is going to be a different matter for me, if I feel I don't have anything to add, I usually stay quiet.
Yeah, always play the way you normally do in the public thread regardless of your role. Improves your chances of survival when you get a special role (seer, SK, vig or mafioso) if you always seem like a vanillager.
The problem is if your villager persona is extreme. Which often happens. It happens to me most of the time if I'm invested in a game and obviously happens to others (see above). It's very hard to replicate without seem forced or phony.
Extreme villager persona is a problem but I don't know if people can necessarily pick up on it if they suffer from the "I'm mafia/SK and need to cut down on my posts and start doing other random things that I normally don't do that raises flags" syndrome.
Actually, that was one of the things made me go "Duh" because I was going to work on the networking things and then I was mafia. So probably just as well that I didn't get to do much networking because I'd hate to establish the precedent that when I'm taking the initiative to form networks, it means I'm part of the mafia. If I get killed working on that, I'd rather turn up as the village color.
I'd have switched to vote for him if I hadn't needed to try and save my skin scales.
the thing is villagers often don't care about their own hides that much. So if you are just a villager and see someone suspect, you should just call them out even if you are going down. It's much more helpful. If you make a scramble for your life, it just makes you seem more mafia. BECAUSE THE MAFIA WANT TO LIVE
granted so do specials, but if you aren't one. You don't have much to lose.
I called him out so much for fabricating reasons against me and so far as I could see, no one backed me up even after I quoted my post that proved his lie and repeated it like 4 times in the run up to the vote.
Which lie? I called him out for something else though...
He voted for me because I made a throwaway vote on the night day 2 began, and then ignored the series of next-morning posts I made where I acknowledged that the vote was bad and picked a better target, so that he could accuse me of only switching my bad vote when I was called out on it late in the day, by him, and that I was as a result either suspicious or bad for the village.
Linking over and over to that middle vote got no traction
I honestly missed that other vote because it was RIGHT after my post (wooo vanilla). I would have called you out for the same thin were I villager.
Be careful thinking you're being ignored when it's very possible that there's "real life" happening on the other end of your discussion.
I mean, I was mafia, you were right, but your whole suspicion was based on the fact that I lied. I didn't. I just didn't see that second vote right after me and then I was off the forums.
Then of course you had to die. Can't have a raving lunatic fish in the sea!
Man, I knew you guys were the last two mafia! But I only figured it out after I was dead...
I liked the game, even though the evolutions felt like they took forever, even with my +10 a day. It seemed that by the time I got anything useful, I was already in danger of dying by either the mafia or vote. I guess that's by design though, you really need that crystal to get juiced up.
Really impressed by the stat page, that was some good work. I hope you guys saved a template of that, I can see it getting used a lot around here, for all kinds of shit.
Steam ID : TheDagon
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Oh, and I was shitting my pants a bit the night I accidentally left an old draft in my post. It was an innocent thing, but it looked fishy. I edited it out but knew someone would have caught it.
It was something like "Fine, I'll break the ti"
I was going to post earlier that night and change my vote, but I sat on it and went out instead.
Luckily, spool died that night and INANTP didn't press the issue.
@cayrus what were you? Just a "confirmed" original fish? If we went on another day I had a post ready to start a vote on you based on
1) sporadic and contentless posts all game that you excused away because you were posting on your phone yet
2) you were perfectly active in the Last Night on Earth game, even chastizing others in that thread for posting on their phone. "geez get a laptop guys"
So Saber, you were confirming by seeing how fish bit? You could have ended up "confirming" sharks as village that way:
- some of us had a 3 dmg basic bite
- any of us could have switched to our 3 dmg basic bite at any time
The village pressing the idea that sharks could not evolve really helped us.
Not really? Survival neutrals' power is that they don't have to be killed by anyone?
To be honest, I haven't played a whole lot of games with Survival Neutrals. I've seen game where they have various things that they could do, though I accept they usually don't. And the actions lined up with what people were saying in the thread. Had I dug really deep, I'd have realized they were all mafia, but they were also all the people we'd asked Figgy to target.
Figgy and jdarksun played a good end-game. Absent any way to confirm them, they kept below other people on the suspicious list.
One of my big takeaways is something I realized in Phalla Hunters as well: the mafia isn't inactive. They're more interested in the game than most people and are unlikely to be completely out of it. I'm actually looking back at the list I sent Chamberlain (who I knew was mafia at the time) and kicking myself for not assigning more weight to the fact that he DIDN'T suggest jdark and figgy.
I contacted you because it felt like I was the only person not talking to you.
At least I was already going to die at that point.
Oh, and I was shitting my pants a bit the night I accidentally left an old draft in my post. It was an innocent thing, but it looked fishy. I edited it out but knew someone would have caught it.
It was something like "Fine, I'll break the ti"
I was going to post earlier that night and change my vote, but I sat on it and went out instead.
Luckily, spool died that night and INANTP didn't press the issue.
@cayrus what were you? Just a "confirmed" original fish? If we went on another day I had a post ready to start a vote on you based on
1) sporadic and contentless posts all game that you excused away because you were posting on your phone yet
2) you were perfectly active in the Last Night on Earth game, even chastizing others in that thread for posting on their phone. "geez get a laptop guys"
So Saber, you were confirming by seeing how fish bit? You could have ended up "confirming" sharks as village that way:
- some of us had a 3 dmg basic bite
- any of us could have switched to our 3 dmg basic bite at any time
The village pressing the idea that sharks could not evolve really helped us.
The only seer I'd found all game was an action seer. I figured there had to be a reason there wasn't a real seer in the game and the only thing that made sense was that you couldn't change your jaws.
At that point I knew you could evolve (Cayus/Cythraul had taken some Evo off of Retaba before he died), but I figured there were only certain parts you could take. That would make the action seer powerful (whenever you attacked, you'd be seen), but it would also give you an out (if you were suspicious, you could just not attack). This is another reminder to not try and guess at game mechanics while looking for mafia.
It crossed my mind that you would be able to use the basic bite, so I ignored that. It was the parasitic bite that made me less suspicious.
As a side note, the network needed to be a lot more vigilant in tracking Evo and upgrades. With all the fish we had running around, we really should have been steering a few people towards getting the anglerfish (guard) or the gripping arms (action seer). I also needed to be much more aggressive with getting reports on who attacked whom and how much damage people took. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it would've given us a better chance to catch things.
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
At least I died night 3 protecting more important people by pretending I was well networked.
I was a network of one. I just wanted to confirm people could get extra points.
And Doe, it was a well done game. Nice work to everyone involved in the making of this game.
This game did actually get me to boot up the ol' emulator and try out the actual E.V.O. Pretty cool game, not sure how I missed it all those years ago.
Steam ID : TheDagon
PSN : TheDagon
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
I'm ok with that. Be prepared to grudge me often, because I won't stop following my gut. It was a gamble, and it wasn't one that went the way I wanted it to. Sorry, man
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
It's sometimes easy to "find mafia" on your own. The hard part is to convince the rest of the village that you're right without having them turn on you or having the mafia annihilate you.
MD, in your case, we left you alive because it was clear the village didn't trust you. And with your constant raging, the village grew more and more suspicious of you every night you survived.
There was no network proboard because of my decision to keep my contact with saber/lucedes segmented from my contact with Slym. While I was 99% sure Slym was what he said he was it was honestly a little easier that way for me.
I was roleblocked night one (Kime was that you?).
I seered Orange Soda night two, who did nothing. (Not a good choice based on stuff in game but I hadn't seen OS in a while and wanted to work with him. Then slym revealed and OS withdrew so whatever.)
I seered Ecco using cladoslache jaws on saber night 3. Slym chose Ecco as a target, so I won't take credit for that.
We discussed a number of targets on night 4. Saber wanted Figgy or Shalmelo (I think). Slym wanted Chamberlain. I decided on Chamberlain and saw him shark attack Shiny New Toys.
I really believed Saber, Slym, and I were going to win this game going away at that point. But then Slym had to go camping, Lucedes went inactive, and I got eaten. Really feels like the one that got away.
@Teucrian: Nope, I started with a busdriver ability. I busdrove @Bedlam and @TheRoadVirus the first day, thinking it would protect TRV (who would bite someone dying to the vote, after all?). Turned out to hurt TRV
I'd have switched to vote for him if I hadn't needed to try and save my skin scales.
the thing is villagers often don't care about their own hides that much. So if you are just a villager and see someone suspect, you should just call them out even if you are going down. It's much more helpful. If you make a scramble for your life, it just makes you seem more mafia. BECAUSE THE MAFIA WANT TO LIVE
granted so do specials, but if you aren't one. You don't have much to lose.
I called him out so much for fabricating reasons against me and so far as I could see, no one backed me up even after I quoted my post that proved his lie and repeated it like 4 times in the run up to the vote.
Which lie? I called him out for something else though...
He voted for me because I made a throwaway vote on the night day 2 began, and then ignored the series of next-morning posts I made where I acknowledged that the vote was bad and picked a better target, so that he could accuse me of only switching my bad vote when I was called out on it late in the day, by him, and that I was as a result either suspicious or bad for the village.
Linking over and over to that middle vote got no traction
I honestly missed that other vote because it was RIGHT after my post (wooo vanilla). I would have called you out for the same thin were I villager.
Be careful thinking you're being ignored when it's very possible that there's "real life" happening on the other end of your discussion.
I mean, I was mafia, you were right, but your whole suspicion was based on the fact that I lied. I didn't. I just didn't see that second vote right after me and then I was off the forums.
Then of course you had to die. Can't have a raving lunatic fish in the sea!
I only started calling you out as a liar after I linked to the post you missed and you were all :whistle: laa laa laa can't hear yooooo
also, and this is really funny to me now...
My second vote happened nowhere near any posts by you.
It was my third vote of the day that you were talking about.
Posts
There is a reason there are so few (unheard of) SK victories...
Another thing to consider is time: we all only have so much of it. As a villager, we spend our time PMing one another and theorizing in the thread. A mafia member (particularly in the first few days) has to figure out what all the mafia abilities are, theorize how best to use them, discuss targets amd theiry with his fellow mafia, and figure out what's going on with village roles so he can have a cover. On top of that, they need to PM with people and discuss in the thread. Everything they do publicly takes significantly more time for mafia than for a villager, because you need to think through things to endure they sound good but serve your purpose. As a villager, if you're wrong, it's not nearly as much of an issue.
dead?
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
I'm actually quite glad I moved my Day 1 target at the last minute. I had you as my target all day long just because I wanted to kill you for being the Lady Belmont in Gumpy's game. :P
The only reason I didn't kill you off right away. I needed somebody to talk to.
- Terence McKenna
when i'm mafia, i play 100% sleeper agent. i don't say or do anything i wouldn't do as a villager. i play the roles totally separately.
i guess my strategy is sort of like kime's? that is, it's hard to tell whether i'm evil or not, because the behaviors aren't any different.
also, i tend to be totally wrong as a villager. when i'm mafia, my aim improves noticeably. which is, uh, sort of a liability, sometimes.
Hah. So if you start to make sense, it's time to off you. That sucks.
The only reason I want to improve my networking is because that will be a liability for me. It'll certainly help me if i have a bead on where things are going whether I'm mafia, villager or something else. It also makes me less of a tempting target for network heads too, if I manage to make contact. Not being a borderline poster is going to be a different matter for me, if I feel I don't have anything to add, I usually stay quiet.
Anyways we need phalla games IMO.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
The problem is if your villager persona is extreme. Which often happens. It happens to me most of the time if I'm invested in a game and obviously happens to others (see above). It's very hard to replicate without seem forced or phony.
Actually, that was one of the things made me go "Duh" because I was going to work on the networking things and then I was mafia. So probably just as well that I didn't get to do much networking because I'd hate to establish the precedent that when I'm taking the initiative to form networks, it means I'm part of the mafia. If I get killed working on that, I'd rather turn up as the village color.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
I honestly missed that other vote because it was RIGHT after my post (wooo vanilla). I would have called you out for the same thin were I villager.
Be careful thinking you're being ignored when it's very possible that there's "real life" happening on the other end of your discussion.
I mean, I was mafia, you were right, but your whole suspicion was based on the fact that I lied. I didn't. I just didn't see that second vote right after me and then I was off the forums.
Then of course you had to die. Can't have a raving lunatic fish in the sea!
This was great fun, and kudos for everything! Very well done
I was really busy that day! I only had a 3 damage bite anyway.
I liked the game, even though the evolutions felt like they took forever, even with my +10 a day. It seemed that by the time I got anything useful, I was already in danger of dying by either the mafia or vote. I guess that's by design though, you really need that crystal to get juiced up.
Really impressed by the stat page, that was some good work. I hope you guys saved a template of that, I can see it getting used a lot around here, for all kinds of shit.
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
It was something like "Fine, I'll break the ti"
I was going to post earlier that night and change my vote, but I sat on it and went out instead.
Luckily, spool died that night and INANTP didn't press the issue.
@cayrus what were you? Just a "confirmed" original fish? If we went on another day I had a post ready to start a vote on you based on
1) sporadic and contentless posts all game that you excused away because you were posting on your phone yet
2) you were perfectly active in the Last Night on Earth game, even chastizing others in that thread for posting on their phone. "geez get a laptop guys"
So Saber, you were confirming by seeing how fish bit? You could have ended up "confirming" sharks as village that way:
- some of us had a 3 dmg basic bite
- any of us could have switched to our 3 dmg basic bite at any time
The village pressing the idea that sharks could not evolve really helped us.
I contacted you because it felt like I was the only person not talking to you.
At least I was already going to die at that point.
The only seer I'd found all game was an action seer. I figured there had to be a reason there wasn't a real seer in the game and the only thing that made sense was that you couldn't change your jaws.
At that point I knew you could evolve (Cayus/Cythraul had taken some Evo off of Retaba before he died), but I figured there were only certain parts you could take. That would make the action seer powerful (whenever you attacked, you'd be seen), but it would also give you an out (if you were suspicious, you could just not attack). This is another reminder to not try and guess at game mechanics while looking for mafia.
As a side note, the network needed to be a lot more vigilant in tracking Evo and upgrades. With all the fish we had running around, we really should have been steering a few people towards getting the anglerfish (guard) or the gripping arms (action seer). I also needed to be much more aggressive with getting reports on who attacked whom and how much damage people took. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it would've given us a better chance to catch things.
I was a network of one. I just wanted to confirm people could get extra points.
And Doe, it was a well done game. Nice work to everyone involved in the making of this game.
please let me grudge who did that by the way
arghhhhhhhhh
thanks for the game though was fun
Steam
which one killed me is so gonna get that grudge
Steam
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
Yo.
actually i had a post i was working on with all your posts when I was accusing you
it literally showed you contributed nothing to the thread besides general banter which isn't your normal self at all.
I mean everyone likes to jsut talk for sure but you also at least contribute to discussions which wasnt happening at the time.
and then I deleted it cause I was like, meh im trying to hard here
Steam
grudged so hard
Steam
MD, in your case, we left you alive because it was clear the village didn't trust you. And with your constant raging, the village grew more and more suspicious of you every night you survived.
@Teucrian: Nope, I started with a busdriver ability. I busdrove @Bedlam and @TheRoadVirus the first day, thinking it would protect TRV (who would bite someone dying to the vote, after all?). Turned out to hurt TRV
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I only started calling you out as a liar after I linked to the post you missed and you were all :whistle: laa laa laa can't hear yooooo
also, and this is really funny to me now...
My second vote happened nowhere near any posts by you.
It was my third vote of the day that you were talking about.
I said this so many times! *sob*