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[3D Printers] - Now with Auto-Calibration!

124

Posts

  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    Hey guys, I'm gonna be buying a 3D printer within the next two weeks hopefully, and I'd like any thoughts on it. As of now, I'm thining about the Makerbot Replicator, but I don't know a lot about the other companies and designs. Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on these?

    I work in-industry, the current MakerBots (referred to as Gen 5 machines) have an 80% return rate. I highly recommend looking at Make Magazine's 2015 printer shootout, from which the TL;DR is Ultimaker, Printrbot, Afinia/UP! Plus 2, Lulzbot, or Zortrax. The reason their MakerBot printer scored so highly is MakerBot ensured the machine they got was one of the 20% that doesn't shit its proverbial pants after about a day or two of operation. I have heard good things about the Dremel printer, which is a rebadged FlashForge printer (Chinese MakerBot Replicator 2/Gen 4 clone, except they fixed all of the problems it shipped with). In fact, Gabe (PA's artist) owns a Dremel printer and has posted about it to some length.

    Emissary42 on
    Unescorted_Settler
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    80%?

    Holy shit.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
    Emissary42KreutzDiannaoChong
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    80%?

    Holy shit.

    The company has been headed downhill ever since the Replicator 2 launch. In fact, they had such high turnover that a number of their biggest resellers were threatening to drop them ahead of the buyout by Stratasys. I can assure you: if Stratasys had not bought them, they would have cratered not soon after that point in time.

    On the topic of Stratasys, that company has not been putting nearly enough into R&D nor have they really seen the writing on the wall. They sell their filament for around $300 per kg, which is a 5x-10x markup compared to high-quality consumer-targeted materials. It's caused most people to just buy fleets of the low cost printers for rough work - since they pay for themselves in savings, and are really not far off in terms of output quality these days - and to add a cherry on top, their material DRM has now been utterly and totally cracked. The story is similarly bleak for 3D Systems though for slightly different reasons; their bogeyman is Carbon 3D, a company that can produce resin models 100x faster than 3D Systems can:







    Carbon 3D is going to be huge, and no one else can match them at this point.

    Emissary42 on
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Damn, 80% return rate? That's no good...I thought Makerbot had higher quality than that. So which do you think is the best one then? I know very little about 3D printing, and I'd be using it for mainly model making and costuming. The listings online seem to point to Ultimaker, but I feel a bit out of my depth here.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    Damn, 80% return rate? That's no good...I thought Makerbot had higher quality than that. So which do you think is the best one then? I know very little about 3D printing, and I'd be using it for mainly model making and costuming. The listings online seem to point to Ultimaker, but I feel a bit out of my depth here.

    Well, as far as your models and costumes go, how big of an object would you imagine you would like to make? That should narrow things down a bit. I wouldn't worry overly about small differences in print quality, since for a properly finished prop you're going to be doing a fair deal of filling in imperfections with high-fill primer, epoxy, or bondo and sanding before adding paint. Remember as well that you can always break models into smaller chunks and print them bit by bit to glue together later; very large models can be a bit tricky to print, but if there's absolutely no way to produce them correctly in pieces then you'd need a bigger printer.

    Emissary42 on
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    I'd want to go midrange in size, nothing giant, I think the about 10x8x6 would be great, but of course, I'm not super constrained by that size. Most important to me is lack of "fiddleing" if that makes sense. Some 3D printers almost make it a selling point how much tweaking and messing about you can do with it, which isn't really my want. I'd more want something simple and functional.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    Carbon 3D is going to be huge, and no one else can match them at this point.

    That Carbon 3D is the first time I have really questioned if 3D printing might someday replace injection molding entirely.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I'd want to go midrange in size, nothing giant, I think the about 10x8x6 would be great, but of course, I'm not super constrained by that size. Most important to me is lack of "fiddleing" if that makes sense. Some 3D printers almost make it a selling point how much tweaking and messing about you can do with it, which isn't really my want. I'd more want something simple and functional.

    I would say aim for a printer with an 8"x8"x8" bed, that's a fairly standard size and covers 95% of all projects. Most critically, printers that size can make large segments of helmets in one pass which is helpful for some costumes.

    You said you also wanted to minimize fiddling; if you can wait, I can say with some certainty that the UP Box will probably be pretty kickass. They make the Afinia and UP Plus 2 printer, which are regarded as some of the most hands-off printers in existence. If you don't want to wait, look into Zortrax, Ultimaker, Printrbot, and FlashForge/Dremel. I personally own a Printrbot Metal Simple (6" cube-shaped build area, they do offer bigger models) and while it is slightly less hands-off the current sheet metal versions are all very nearly set to print out of the box; I was up and running within an hour.

    Emissary42 on
    Unescorted_Settler
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    I'm liking the Ultimaker...They're very open source, which I sorta like, but I've also been burned with people who take open source to mean "No official support." It's in my price range, actually cheaper than my previous target, which means more plastic :-D Hehe, I'm just glad I came here, or I'd of bought the Replicator without any idea I was rolling the dice in an extreme way.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I'm liking the Ultimaker...They're very open source, which I sorta like, but I've also been burned with people who take open source to mean "No official support." It's in my price range, actually cheaper than my previous target, which means more plastic :-D Hehe, I'm just glad I came here, or I'd of bought the Replicator without any idea I was rolling the dice in an extreme way.

    Ultimaker has been a big name for a while, and their latest machines are top-notch. I would recommend looking into their Community as well as other more general communities online like /r/3DPrinting. They'll get you started with minimal fuss, and have plenty of tips and tricks for a wide range of materials.

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    I have nothing to add to any of this other than to note that I quickly read the title as:
    [3d Printers] Now with Auto-Cannibalization

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    So, I have gotten my 3D printer! It's a utilimaker 2, and I'm havin some issues with it. I had it for about a week, and everything was going great. Then, it starting to act wonky when laying down the layers. It wasn't sticking well, and the extruder head was picking up parts and messing them up. I was using PLA, so I thought that I might switch to ABS, see if that plastic worked any better. It did, but there's a new problem. It lays stuff down cleanly, but it's having problems sticking to the build plate. Any thoughts?

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    put some blue painters tape down on the build platform for when your using PLA. for ABS you need a heated build platform and some kapton tape.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Kapton tape? Where do I get that stuff, somewhere like Fry's?

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Amazon? not sure what sort of local place would carry it, maybe a hardware store.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Take a look at adhesive-backed PEI sheets and the techniques revolving around Elmer's Glue Sticks. I personally have a Printrbot Simple Metal with an unheated bed, coated with BuildTak and treated before each run with an even layer of Elmer's glue stick glue. Printing on the wet stuff instantly causes it to cure, and releasing it later is easy enough with a putty knife and a little water.

  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    I'll try putting down some glue, see if that helps matters, and I'll try to find a sheet. Thanks! Also, anyone know any good locations to get stuff to print? I've been using Thingaverse, but some people are up in arms about that place.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I'll try putting down some glue, see if that helps matters, and I'll try to find a sheet. Thanks! Also, anyone know any good locations to get stuff to print? I've been using Thingaverse, but some people are up in arms about that place.

    While Stratasys' management of MakerBot has been comically bad, it's still a decent resource. Look into youmagine (Ultimaker's repository) and GrabCAD for starters, and I quite like a lot of stuff on MyMiniFactory (though not all of it is free). I mean, look at this guy's stuff:
    475416223fcb510b80d9a50dd9dc0bf9f6b39e2b.jpg

    I think even Mike [PA's Artist, aka Gabe] has downloaded some of his models. Worth noting that model has been finished and painted, but the labor saved avoiding hand-carving or machining the parts is substantial.

  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Welp. I know what I'm gonna be printing next. Holy crap, there's some good stuff here...

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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    Emissary42
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Aaaarg! Ok, I've got some issues with my Utlimaker 2. I was printing with PLA that came with it, and just now ran out. So I went down to Fry's and got some more PLA, and I've had NOTHING but problems. It just won't flow, and when it does start, it'll work for a bit and then just stop dead.

    The other problem is I also got some ABS when I bought the Printer, and Iv'e been trying to use that, but again, nothing but problems. It keeps on coiling upwards, and then, no more stickiness. Any help would be great! I'm trying to make a Pipboy, and while I have time till PAX, I'd still like to get it finished. Thanks!

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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    electricitylikesme
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    Aaaarg! Ok, I've got some issues with my Utlimaker 2. I was printing with PLA that came with it, and just now ran out. So I went down to Fry's and got some more PLA, and I've had NOTHING but problems. It just won't flow, and when it does start, it'll work for a bit and then just stop dead.

    The other problem is I also got some ABS when I bought the Printer, and Iv'e been trying to use that, but again, nothing but problems. It keeps on coiling upwards, and then, no more stickiness. Any help would be great! I'm trying to make a Pipboy, and while I have time till PAX, I'd still like to get it finished. Thanks!

    I'd look up who Fry's uses as its supplier, PLA is surprisingly variable in terms of temperatures (short explanation: colorants be crazy, yo). As for ABS, similar story but pre-treating the bed can make a world of difference. Look up ABS glue (a small quantity of ABS dissolved in acetone painted onto glass build plates to improve adhesion), elmer's glue sticks (similar concept that also works for PLA), and hair spray (again, also works for PLA). Plus, try to avoid any drafts or areas of low air-temperature; ABS contracts as it cools, which will deform prints or even cause them to pop off the bed entirely. Another piece of advice I can give you is don't try to run prints as fast as the machine can go; running a machine at a lower rate of speed is going to be more reliable. I've become confident enough to let my printers run entirely unattended (overnight or while I'm out) as soon as I'm confident they're sufficiently adhered to the build platform.

    edit: good suppliers of filament online can be found via the reprap wiki and via highly rated sources on Amazon. I've been running RioRand filament lately, but for specialty stuff Taulman is nearly impossible to beat. They also have the exclusive US license for 'Amphora' filaments in their n-vent line (identical to ColourFabb's excellent XT-copolyester filaments).

    Emissary42 on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    A slight tangent to 3D printed objects, but immensely useful for anyone with an object printer anyway; complex colour application to 3D objects:

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    iguanacusEmissary42
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Damn, that's pretty cool. Lot of space needed for it to work, but I like using the Kinect to track the movement of the piece into the water.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    The rig they show is a very basic prototype with off-the-shelf parts. I imagine that an end-to-end fully digital process with calibrated actuators and a more industrial hydrographic tub, where the printed film is automatically loaded and sprayed, would forego the requirement for the positioning camera and most of the exterior space for the tripods and drive arm. Similarly if you were digitally modelling your object to be 3D printed, you wouldn't need to scan it in to get the 3D model for the simulation – you would just have to ensure you simulated and printed at the same scale using the same model.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    Emissary42
  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    And guess what? My Utlimaker has...broken? Maybe? I have no idea, but it's still under warrenty, if that'll do me any good. The feeder motor, when I go to change the filament, starts, and then lets out a high pitched squeal. No idea what's up, but talking to the people there, so we'll see....

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I read the thread title as "now with auto-cannibalism!" for a moment, pictured a printer using itself for material

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    And guess what? My Utlimaker has...broken? Maybe? I have no idea, but it's still under warrenty, if that'll do me any good. The feeder motor, when I go to change the filament, starts, and then lets out a high pitched squeal. No idea what's up, but talking to the people there, so we'll see....

    Have you checked for either loose wires or an unusual setting on a trim potentiometer? There may be some troubleshooting topics on that. If the motor runs without having to pull anything in (just spinning freely with no filament), then it could be a trim setting on current delivery.

  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    I'll be entirely honest, I have no idea what you mean. I'm not really techy myself, and one of the reasons I wanted to get the Utlimaker 2 was that it was more plug and play than other printers.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Dragon6860 wrote: »
    I'll be entirely honest, I have no idea what you mean. I'm not really techy myself, and one of the reasons I wanted to get the Utlimaker 2 was that it was more plug and play than other printers.

    Well, the loose wires bit should be easier than the potentiometer, just trace the wire leading from the problem motor and see if it's loose. A potential issue with current delivery could be determined by different levels of resistance applied to the motor (like running with no filament inside). If the motor doesn't behave any differently when it's not pushing filament, then definitely contact support.

  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    In industry-related news, Stratasys/MakerBot did a no-no. Lighter reading here.

    Long story short, Stratasys used false portrayals of 5th Gen MakerBot performance to keep their stock inflated (and they definitely knew about the problems far before and long after the launch of those products, even going so far as to fake builds during investor tours of facilities). One big aspect of this that sticks out in my mind: they used stock as part of their deals to acquire companies during the Class Period referred to in the lawsuit.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Woo! At last, a multi-material printer that can also 3D… scan?
    But seriously some pretty cool stuff that one can do: ten materials, delivered drop-wise like an inkjet, including elastics and that's not even the best part: it integrates a 3D scanner that it can use to self-correct if the output goes a bit wrong and, more importantly, it can use the scan of the build platform to incorporate a pre-made component.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    Donovan Puppyfucker
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I am quasi considering getting a 3d printer to make some star wars x-wing miniatures ships that don't currently exist (like the separatist droid ships), any good recommendations for what to look for? Most of them will probably only be like 4"x3", with some going up to around 2-3x that size.

    I would rather not drop 2k on it since I don't know how much I will end up using it, but like $500 would be fine if the quality was still good enough.

  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    I am quasi considering getting a 3d printer to make some star wars x-wing miniatures ships that don't currently exist (like the separatist droid ships), any good recommendations for what to look for? Most of them will probably only be like 4"x3", with some going up to around 2-3x that size.

    I would rather not drop 2k on it since I don't know how much I will end up using it, but like $500 would be fine if the quality was still good enough.

    Take a look at entry-level printers like the UP Mini or some of the Printrbots as a start. There are a fair number out there in that price range.

    Morkath
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    I am quasi considering getting a 3d printer to make some star wars x-wing miniatures ships that don't currently exist (like the separatist droid ships), any good recommendations for what to look for? Most of them will probably only be like 4"x3", with some going up to around 2-3x that size.

    I would rather not drop 2k on it since I don't know how much I will end up using it, but like $500 would be fine if the quality was still good enough.

    Take a look at entry-level printers like the UP Mini or some of the Printrbots as a start. There are a fair number out there in that price range.

    Thanks! I have been eyeing the UP Mini, I will go with that one.

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    My UP Mini showed up today.

    Setup was super easy and I have already started printing something out!
    ...a better filament spool than the one that came with it (the default one won't hold the pla filament spool I bought).

    It's a little louder when running than the youtube videos I could find showed, but its not that bad as long as I keep the door on it closed, also keeps any odor from being an issue. I wish I could lower the volume on the beeping it does when its ready/done, it's kind of insanely loud.

    Next is looking into making my own models to print out.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    We can rebuild him!
    3D printed guides used to aid nerve regeneration in rats!

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    As a general bulletin, the industry as a whole is contracting. Many companies small (and some large) have expended most if not all of their funds and are at risk of collapse; do your research before making new big purchases. Fortunately for recent posters, UP is not among them.

  • Ghostly ClockworkGhostly Clockwork Registered User regular
    Damn. Hope that the guys who make Utlimaker isn't one of them, they're super nice.

    FTC: honk.
    FTC: HONK.

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  • TimFijiTimFiji Registered User regular
    I hope this isn't necro-posting, but I'm a teacher (math) and was looking into purchasing a 3D printer for my kids for projects and stuff. Was curious if anyone could recommend one anywhere between 300- 600$?

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    It's on the upper end of your price range, but the UP Mini is bulletproof. I've also heard good things about the Printrbot Play and I own a Printrbot Simple, which can be a little fiddly. Accessories I'd advise for the UP Mini: a spare extruder assembly (comes assembled, they're handy if a jam happens), a spare build surface or two, and some general tools (scraper, trimmers, tweezers, etc). You should also be able to get an education discount on all of these.

    TimFiji
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