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[PA Comic] Friday, July 13, 2012 - Exceptions

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited July 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
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    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    So is Gabe suddenly having a seizure in panel 2?

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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    it's basically pure nerd rage expressed in a single face

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    Mr. PutterMr. Putter Registered User regular
    'erry'? Tychpo or odd variant I've never heard before?

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    He's mad that what he really wanted to get was gone before he even got in line.

    yDCY0.jpg

    Here's the complete list of what Hasbro was selling at the booth. You can't get Carbonite Jar Jar without buying the whole set including unfrozen Jar Jar, a Clone Trooper, a Shock Trooper, a Sandtrooper, Princess Leia, and Darth Vader.

    Mr. Putter wrote: »
    'erry'? Tychpo or odd variant I've never heard before?

    Variant.

    SabreMau on
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Ha ha, I have this exact problem with SWTOR. Why are there so many people in carbonite (and they all have the Han Solo pose?). Nobody was even sure Han would survive it when they did it in the movie, yet in TOR people are doing it left and right, in some cases of their own volition!

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    For the same reason that the Jedi children ("younglings," whatever) were using Obi-wan's improvised training method within a well-supplied school environment.

    Star Wars contributors are, by and large, uncreative hacks.

    Edit - Just to be clear I'm referring to remote + lightsaber training.

    Henroid on
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    Evan CurrieEvan Currie Registered User new member
    edited July 2012
    I was always under the impression in Empire that they were specifically testing the *Bespin* carbonite 'freezer' because it was never intended for human use. The implication to me was that elsewhere, there WERE systems designed to freeze people... but maybe I'm misremembering it. I always kinda figured that the Bespin system was sort of a rough and tumble device, good for whatever they used it for but not sophisticated enough to use on people. <shrug>

    Edit : Oh, and I wouldn't call the remote/lightsabre combo 'improvised'. Actually, that remote is am extremely specific tool. I can't imagine what else it would be used for given it's specific design and power settings. More likely Ben had an old remote in his 'Jedi' trunk, saved from the old days. Same place he kept Annakin's saber and all that.

    Evan Currie on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Ha ha, I have this exact problem with SWTOR. Why are there so many people in carbonite (and they all have the Han Solo pose?). Nobody was even sure Han would survive it when they did it in the movie, yet in TOR people are doing it left and right, in some cases of their own volition!

    Don't even need a big complicated machine for it there, either. Just spray on a light dusting and they're frozen.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXsBzZNu3Og

    Sure, it wears off in 2.5 seconds in a combat situation, but the cutscene version, capturing actual bounties for extended transport, involves the exact same spray mechanism. And this is Old Republic, long before ESB. Vader could have just said, "Hey, Boba. Spray down Han now, but when Luke gets here, hide in the corner and when he's distracted, jetpack out and spray him too."

    Actually, Lucas still has time to do that if he decides to just remake the original trilogy in a series reboot.

    SabreMau on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I was always under the impression in Empire that they were specifically testing the *Bespin* carbonite 'freezer' because it was never intended for human use. The implication to me was that elsewhere, there WERE systems designed to freeze people... but maybe I'm misremembering it. I always kinda figured that the Bespin system was sort of a rough and tumble device, good for whatever they used it for but not sophisticated enough to use on people. <shrug>

    Edit : Oh, and I wouldn't call the remote/lightsabre combo 'improvised'. Actually, that remote is am extremely specific tool. I can't imagine what else it would be used for given it's specific design and power settings. More likely Ben had an old remote in his 'Jedi' trunk, saved from the old days. Same place he kept Annakin's saber and all that.

    It's not the remote that's in question. It's the blast helmet and standing lined up like a choir that was retarded. Especially when wielding dangerous weapons. What the fuck is going to happen if a kid gets hit and swings wildly in reaction to the sudden pain?

    Further, lightsabers are something Jedi students gain when they're ready to be padowans. Not something they're given as children. Oh wait, Lucas is the King of Hacks.

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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    Kids, go get your sabers from the saber closet. It's saber time!

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Especially when wielding dangerous weapons.

    Training lightsabers. Permanently set to a low-power setting, not all that dangerous.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Especially when wielding dangerous weapons.

    Training lightsabers. Permanently set to a low-power setting, not all that dangerous.

    Are you making an excuse for it or telling me something that's been 'established' that's just going to make me into an angry old man?

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I was always under the impression in Empire that they were specifically testing the *Bespin* carbonite 'freezer' because it was never intended for human use. The implication to me was that elsewhere, there WERE systems designed to freeze people... but maybe I'm misremembering it. I always kinda figured that the Bespin system was sort of a rough and tumble device, good for whatever they used it for but not sophisticated enough to use on people. <shrug>

    Edit : Oh, and I wouldn't call the remote/lightsabre combo 'improvised'. Actually, that remote is am extremely specific tool. I can't imagine what else it would be used for given it's specific design and power settings. More likely Ben had an old remote in his 'Jedi' trunk, saved from the old days. Same place he kept Annakin's saber and all that.

    It's not the remote that's in question. It's the blast helmet and standing lined up like a choir that was retarded. Especially when wielding dangerous weapons. What the fuck is going to happen if a kid gets hit and swings wildly in reaction to the sudden pain?

    Further, lightsabers are something Jedi students gain when they're ready to be padowans. Not something they're given as children. Oh wait, Lucas is the King of Hacks.

    Plus the blast helmet was just something Obi-wan grabbed on the MF as a training lark because Luke wasn't getting it with just the remote. He didn't pull it out of his Jedi Training Kit.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Especially when wielding dangerous weapons.

    Training lightsabers. Permanently set to a low-power setting, not all that dangerous.

    Are you making an excuse for it or telling me something that's been 'established' that's just going to make me into an angry old man?
    Sources
    • Attack of the Clones: The Visual Dictionary
    • Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
    • Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous
    • Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game – Champions of the Force (Card: Training Lightsaber)
    • The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Listen to me carefully when I say this.

    Fuck Wookiepedia.

    It's the thing that made me turn against my infinite love for Star Wars. Now it's pick-and-choose love.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    If I could find a scan of any of those sources without going through Wookiepedia first, I'd probably have used that instead.

    Still, even without those, you could deduce that the film handed out nonlethal weapons to a class full of kids.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Tycho wrote:
    I met the creator of The Walking Dead, Robert Kirkman, at San Diego Comic-Con a few years ago - Scott introduced me to him. The first thing he said, the very first thing, was that I looked like Bunsen Honeydew and he is exactly right.

    Gaslight on
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    mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Especially when wielding dangerous weapons.

    Training lightsabers. Permanently set to a low-power setting, not all that dangerous.

    Are you making an excuse for it or telling me something that's been 'established' that's just going to make me into an angry old man?

    No I'll second that. I don't remember the exact name of the series, but there were a couple of Star Wars pre-prequel books where Obi-wan was a (kid) padawan under Qui-gon, and they used training sabers frequently.

    mRahmani on
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    El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    I met the creator of The Walking Dead, Robert Kirkman, at San Diego Comic-Con a few years ago - Scott introduced me to him. The first thing he said, the very first thing, was that I looked like Bunsen Honeydew and he is exactly right.

    The obvious corollary to this is that Mike does in fact look an awful lot like Beaker.

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    pirateluigipirateluigi Arr, it be me. Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Especially when wielding dangerous weapons.

    Training lightsabers. Permanently set to a low-power setting, not all that dangerous.

    Are you making an excuse for it or telling me something that's been 'established' that's just going to make me into an angry old man?

    No I'll second that. I don't remember the exact name of the series, but there were a couple of Star Wars pre-prequel books where Obi-wan was a (kid) padawan under Qui-gon, and they used training sabers frequently.

    It's a sword made of light... set that to low power and you have a flashlight.

    Me and my friends were training correctly all along!

    http://www.danreviewstheworld.com
    Nintendo Network ID - PirateLuigi 3DS: 3136-6586-7691
    G&T Grass Type Pokemon Gym Leader, In-Game Name: Dan
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    ... But they still have to emit enough power to stop even the least powerful of laser jabs.

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    marsiliesmarsilies Registered User regular
    I was always under the impression in Empire that they were specifically testing the *Bespin* carbonite 'freezer' because it was never intended for human use. The implication to me was that elsewhere, there WERE systems designed to freeze people... but maybe I'm misremembering it. I always kinda figured that the Bespin system was sort of a rough and tumble device, good for whatever they used it for but not sophisticated enough to use on people. <shrug>
    You're right. The testing on Han was specifically because the Bespin freezer was not intented for freezing humans. The relevant quotes from the film:

    http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/esb_final.txt
    VADER
    This facility is crude, but it
    should be adequate to freeze
    Skywalker for his journey to the
    Emperor.

    .....

    LANDO
    Lord Vader, we only use this
    facility for carbon freezing. If
    you put him in there, it might
    kill him.

    VADER
    I do not want the Emperor's prize
    damaged. We will test it... on
    Captain Solo.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... But they still have to emit enough power to stop even the least powerful of laser jabs.

    Even the laser jabs from the remote device in A New Hope didn't do more than sting Luke's leg. It probably doesn't take much to deflect or absorb that blast.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    I met the creator of The Walking Dead, Robert Kirkman, at San Diego Comic-Con a few years ago - Scott introduced me to him. The first thing he said, the very first thing, was that I looked like Bunsen Honeydew and he is exactly right.

    The obvious corollary to this is that Mike does in fact look an awful lot like Beaker.

    Someone needs to redub a clip of Beaker and Honeydew with audio from PATV or the podcast. Honeydew talking about fucking bitches or Beaker asking the cameramen if they've gotten their butts checked would bring me great joy.

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Ha ha, I have this exact problem with SWTOR. Why are there so many people in carbonite (and they all have the Han Solo pose?). Nobody was even sure Han would survive it when they did it in the movie, yet in TOR people are doing it left and right, in some cases of their own volition!

    Don't even need a big complicated machine for it there, either. Just spray on a light dusting and they're frozen.

    Sure, it wears off in 2.5 seconds in a combat situation, but the cutscene version, capturing actual bounties for extended transport, involves the exact same spray mechanism. And this is Old Republic, long before ESB. Vader could have just said, "Hey, Boba. Spray down Han now, but when Luke gets here, hide in the corner and when he's distracted, jetpack out and spray him too."

    Actually, Lucas still has time to do that if he decides to just remake the original trilogy in a series reboot.

    At the risk of nerding out here, it's possible that it's an old technique that fell out of use that Vader was bringing back based on some obscure Sith lore or something. I mean, TOR takes place thousands of years pre-ANH, plenty of time for knowledge to be lost, regained, then lost again. Especially in a galaxy that erupts into Jedi/Sith war with such regularity.

    I can imagine a few lines in a centuries old bounty hunter's journal "I froze his ass in carbonite, then took him in for the bounty" and Vader thinks to himself "Hey that sounds like a good idea for transporting a dangerous potential Jedi with unknown capabilities... Now, who do I know that has a carbonite freezing plant I can borrow..."

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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    The EU is every damn thing in the originals spread so thin as to make it ridiculous.

    All Jedi wear Ben's robes!

    All Jedi have Blast Helmets for training!

    Carbonite is just like a thing!

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    All Jedi wear Ben's robes!

    In fairness, there was nothing particularly special about Ben's robes. I mean, if he was wearing a pair of Levi's, would you complain about EU characters wearing Levi's?

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    marsilies wrote: »
    I was always under the impression in Empire that they were specifically testing the *Bespin* carbonite 'freezer' because it was never intended for human use. The implication to me was that elsewhere, there WERE systems designed to freeze people... but maybe I'm misremembering it. I always kinda figured that the Bespin system was sort of a rough and tumble device, good for whatever they used it for but not sophisticated enough to use on people. <shrug>
    You're right. The testing on Han was specifically because the Bespin freezer was not intented for freezing humans. The relevant quotes from the film:

    http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/esb_final.txt
    VADER
    This facility is crude, but it
    should be adequate to freeze
    Skywalker for his journey to the
    Emperor.

    .....

    LANDO
    Lord Vader, we only use this
    facility for carbon freezing. If
    you put him in there, it might
    kill him.

    VADER
    I do not want the Emperor's prize
    damaged. We will test it... on
    Captain Solo.

    That doesn't specify Bespin's facility wasn't meant for it all. That same evidence can point to carbon freezing being an unknown quantity when freezing lifeforms in it.

    Not that this argument matters, since the EU decided carbon freezing is an everyday thing. Which really detracts from the impact of the Empire's evil actions and the possible loss of Han Solo's life. Why leave something standing as intriguing when you can rip it down and make it non-substantial?

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    I can imagine a few lines in a centuries old bounty hunter's journal "I froze his ass in carbonite, then took him in for the bounty" and Vader thinks to himself "Hey that sounds like a good idea for transporting a dangerous potential Jedi with unknown capabilities... Now, who do I know that has a carbonite freezing plant I can borrow..."

    Luke's abilities were generally known to Vader and whatever Imperial agents were gathering the intel. Vader didn't scheme to have Solo fly to Bespin; Solo flew to Bespin as a matter of circumstance to get away from the Empire, and he was followed. Boba Fett is clever enough to figure out likely routes Solo would be taking so he notified the Empire of things and hyper-spaced to Bespin while the Falcon was flying at regular speed. Hence the Empire being there waiting for it. The idea of freezing Luke likely only came up the moment Vader was made aware Bespin had such a facility. But him plotting it in advanced? No.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    And by the way, while training sabers may be established in the EU and awful new trilogy, let me spell out why it's retarded and out of place.

    The Jedi teachings, established by Yoda in Empire - an original trilogy film so don't tell me this doesn't have weight - don't place any emphasis or high value on waging war. Combat. Not in a positive light, at least. There is more to being a Jedi than the ability to swing a lightsaber around, and because of the danger it presents it would only make sense for it to be among the last things younger force practitioners are taught. I don't care if Jedi start learning as children. They're still children. They are just as likely to throw temper tantrums as the next child. They will mature faster likely, but come on, are you really going to be able to tell the difference with a group of six year olds? And does undergoing Jedi training somehow automatically make you pseudo-English?

    "MASTER SKYWALK-AH, THERE'S TOO MANY OF 'EM, WHUT ARE WE GOING T'DOO?"

    Children are likely going to learn history and have concepts of right and wrong, good and evil heavily imposed upon them (for better or worse). Training a child how to wield a weapon in an order that only values martial skill for defensive purposes makes no sense. Training in other physical ways is one thing. Learning karate or whatever, fine. But a weapon with that much dangerous potential?

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    But blocking blaster bolts is defensive. Sure, Vader can stop them with an open palm, but most everyone else trains to use lightsabers for situations when people are shooting at you.

    The floating ball thing is teaching defensive tactics. Whether in Yoda's little kindergarten or on the Millennium Falcon in ANH, the point of that exercise isn't attacking the thing. It's protecting yourself.

    SabreMau on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Yes it's defensive tactics, but that's still involving the use of a dangerous weapon.

    The Jedi Order is a religious body. Not a military academy. They're learning and doing more than fighting ability. There's holidays and rituals and all sorts of shit, implied by the very nature of it being a religion (established again in the original films and all EU content calls it this). Nobody ever addresses or expands on that. No, it's not as cool as action. But by repeatedly hammering on the combat ability of the Jedi, suddenly Yoda looks like a crazy loner.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Well, I'd say the real point is learning to tap in to the Force instead of reacting based on your physical senses.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Well, I'd say the real point is learning to tap in to the Force instead of reacting based on your physical senses.

    Surely they can do better than using a lightsaber.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    All Jedi wear Ben's robes!

    In fairness, there was nothing particularly special about Ben's robes. I mean, if he was wearing a pair of Levi's, would you complain about EU characters wearing Levi's?

    I mean, Ben's robes are basically desert-wear, and he was living in the desert.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

    Is it possible that different Jedi specialize in different areas and train accordingly? Or will you also resolutely find fault with this entirely reasonable and even probable idea because it's reflected in the EU as well?

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    All Jedi wear Ben's robes!

    In fairness, there was nothing particularly special about Ben's robes. I mean, if he was wearing a pair of Levi's, would you complain about EU characters wearing Levi's?

    I mean, Ben's robes are basically desert-wear, and he was living in the desert.

    Jedi are basically warrior monk-wizards. Wizards and monks are typically thought of as wearing robes, ergo Ben wears robes, ergo all Jedi wear robes. Not much more to it than that.

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