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[PA Comic] Friday, July 13, 2012 - Exceptions

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

    Yeah, as Plinkett said, the scene should have probably been more about mental exercises and meditation, but they wanted to film a bunch of lightsabers instead. But if you're going to grow up and eventually master it as the standard Jedi sidearm, might as well get accustomed to it from a young age with a toned-down trainer that you can't accidentally kill yourself or others on.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

    Is it possible that different Jedi specialize in different areas and train accordingly? Or will you also resolutely find fault with this entirely reasonable and even probable idea because it's reflected in the EU as well?

    I would think the more martial-based Jedi castes certainly end up focusing their training on it more than others, but their training doesn't begin with it just like the others. Do you see the difference now?

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

    Is it possible that different Jedi specialize in different areas and train accordingly? Or will you also resolutely find fault with this entirely reasonable and even probable idea because it's reflected in the EU as well?

    I would think the more martial-based Jedi castes certainly end up focusing their training on it more than others, but their training doesn't begin with it just like the others. Do you see the difference now?

    I think you're sort of determined to have a grievance here for no reason. For one thing, there's no reason to believe that lightsaber practice is the first thing Jedi children ever learn - their training doesn't begin with it. But it is the standard Jedi weapon, and all Jedi are expected to learn to use one at least competently. And competency by Jedi standards is a pretty high level of skill and requires some Force ability, so it makes sense to start them early. There's no reason to assume they had kids training with full-power lightsabers they could accidentally cut each other in half with.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Ultimately we are discussing Star Wars and it's a dumb thing to disagree about but I'm not taking this that seriously. But when one thinks Star Wars it is something worth considering. It doesn't add up to how the Force and Jedi Order have been presented to me. That's the reason I have a grievance.

    This may backfire, but can anyone tell me when in basic training the army teaches you how to fire your standard issue weapon? Day one, early in training, middle of, etc.?

    Also, Jedi ability in things is governed through the Force. While raw skill itself enhances that, at the base, Jedi train to have the Force augment their abilities. Knowing to channel the Force properly has a direct impact on lightsaber wielding. Thus the latter is learned after. Not before.

    Also this discussion of how to train children in the Jedi Order would make for more interesting EU content than a lot of other shit. Internal conflict within the Jedi Order. Too bad good guys are pals always in Star Wars.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Internal conflict within the Jedi Order. Too bad good guys are pals always in Star Wars.

    It would be false to say there's never any internal disagreement or tension within the Jedi Order depicted. Open conflict, no, but definitely dissension and clashes of personality and opinions.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Let's go ahead and assume that there are enough places on the internet for people to bitch about astoundingly inconsequential bullshit from the Star Wars prequels and keep this thread about the bullshit. Let's also consider that at the point at which you're getting really angry about the role of training lightsabers in a Star Wars movie that it might be a good time to take a fatal overdose of barbiturates.

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    SlaignSlaign Registered User regular
    If Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is a thick juicy steak when it comes to lore and writing, Star Wars is a cheeseburger. If you can't enjoy a cheeseburger because it isn't as good as a steak, that's fine I suppose, it's your prerogative. But it doesn't make you better than anyone. Taste is subjective, and there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" taste. The only way someone could have "bad" taste is if they somehow had some brain malfunction that wouldn't allow them to enjoy even things they really want to enjoy. That would be pretty bad, and a malfunction in the way taste is supposed to work. But so long as your taste directs you to things you enjoy, it's working, and it's good.

    To take the cheeseburger analogy a bit further, like cheeseburgers, Star Wars is prepared by a lot of different people, and with varying degrees of success. If you pick up an early novel by Kevin J. Anderson, you might be in for a McDonald's single. But if you go pick up one of Timothy Zahn's books, you'd be in for one of the world's best cheeseburgers.

    As for the inconsistencies, I don't see the big deal. Most of them have been explained away. I don't get the reaction "Oh that's BULLSHIT! You're just explaining away someone's fuckup, that explanation came about after the hole!" Ok? So what? To me that's like saying that potholes are so offensive, we shouldn't patch them, we should abandon roads with potholes and build new ones.

    And honestly, if two seconds of thought and a little creativity can come up with a reason for something, is it really a hole? Or is it just something that wasn't fully explained? Does every little thing have to be drawn out for you?

    I mean, seriously, what do you get out of your incredulity? People in this thread insinuating that the explanation - that carbonite freezing was actually common but Bespin's facilities were crude and possibly unsafe, thus leading to the need for testing - makes sense, but that isn't how they took it, and they don't believe that's how it was intended: Explain to me what benefit you gain from rejecting a perfectly acceptable explanation, please. Is it simply a way of validating your opinions? Why does it matter if that's the way you originally took it or even if that's the way it was originally intended, if the new explanation fits just as well?

    I don't understand the need to find and demonize plot holes. To me, it's just easier and more enjoyable to explain them away with a bit of my own creativity. That way, if it's explained away later in the lore, I get an interesting tidbit, and if it isn't I have my own theory to make it make sense for my own benefit. I'd rather put a little mental effort in than allow a few little flaws to ruin my enjoyment. Maybe that's because I'm a bit of a writer myself and I enjoy creating in all it's forms, so I don't mind coming up with my own in universe explanations.

    I'm very much a Watsonian. (If you don't know what that means, check this out, I think it's pretty great: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist )

    At the end of the day, I don't mind people who are only fans of the OT. That's fine. Be a fan of whatever you like. What I don't appreciate, and won't put up with if I have a choice in the matter, is elitism. I detest "purists" who say that the Prequels and the EU are objectively bad and that those of us who enjoy them should be ashamed. It's not something you can prove. You can prove that they are flawed. You can prove that they aren't up to accepted standards of quality in the field of writing. You can prove that they are generally disliked. However, that does not make them bad. I can still enjoy them. I'm not a stupid person, either. I just possess the ability to enjoy a flawed product. I don't thing that's such a terrible thing.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Slaign wrote: »
    I'm very much a Watsonian. (If you don't know what that means, check this out, I think it's pretty great: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist )

    Brace yourself, there's a whole crowd here who fulminates over any reference to TVtropes in a way that makes any raging about perceived plot holes or alleged flaws of the EU in Star Wars look moderate and reasonable.

    The fact that the terms described did not actually originate on TVtropes will probably make little difference.

    But I will remain a fan of the site to the last, because without it, I would never get to read things like:
    In German-speaking fandom of Disney's Duck comics, the two ways of analyzing the stories are called Donaldismus literaricus (which treats the work of Carl Barks and others as works of art and literature) and Donaldismus archaeologicus (which treats them as factual reports from the Earth-like planet called Stella Anatium - the Star of the Ducks). In the D.O.N.A.L.D. (Deutsche Organisation Nichtkommerzieller Anhänger des lauteren Donaldismus = German Organization of Non-Commercial Adherents of True Donaldism) the latter tends to dominate. Donald Duck comics are Serious Business, definitely.

    Gaslight on
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    SlaignSlaign Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Internal conflict within the Jedi Order. Too bad good guys are pals always in Star Wars.

    It would be false to say there's never any internal disagreement or tension within the Jedi Order depicted. Open conflict, no, but definitely dissension and clashes of personality and opinions.

    Well, Darth Vader was once the Jedi Chosen One, and then became a part of wiping Jedi out so that's a pretty big internal conflict. He had an 8 minute long lightsaber battle with his mentor who considered him as a brother, and lost 3 limbs and most of his skin. Pretty serious.

    Most dark Jedi have similar stories, and their are clear differences of opinion between conservative and progressive Jedi. There are also Jedi who disagree over the role of the Jedi Order and it's subservience to the Republic. There are also more militant factions or more passive factions of Jedi who have split entirely from the order over different beliefs.

    That depth is all there to be had, it's just a matter of finding the material that pertains to it. Like I said before, there are hundreds of entries into the EU, and while it's true that a lot of them leave a lot to be desired, there's plenty to enjoy as well.

    Slaign on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Look at this timely comic about how Jar Jar Binks sucks.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Let's go ahead and assume that there are enough places on the internet for people to bitch about astoundingly inconsequential bullshit from the Star Wars prequels and keep this thread about the bullshit. Let's also consider that at the point at which you're getting really angry about the role of training lightsabers in a Star Wars movie that it might be a good time to take a fatal overdose of barbiturates.

    I really just want to point out that I'm not actually angry. I guess my tone is aggressive on the issue but I'm not angry or close to it.

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    Marie AugustMarie August Los Angeles, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    It's amazing what one can put up with when torturing Jar Jar Binks is involved.

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    Read my fairy tale webcomic, The Fox & The Firebird, at: http://www.fairytaletwisted.com
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Would there be a problem with Jedi using lightsabers as adults, then?

    No. Though again, the only thing people ever write about when it comes to Jedi training is lightsaber play, contradicting writing (probably from the same people) about how lightsaber play is among the least important things Jedi can train for.

    "This weapon is your life!"

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Hey Sabre, if you're reading this, does the Derpy toy have the mismatched eyes?

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    I don't have one, didn't go down to Comic-Con, but yes.

    Maybe if the Jar Jar had them too it'd sell faster.

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    EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    It's amazing what one can put up with when torturing Jar Jar Binks is involved.

    What's really remarkable is how they managed to capitalize on the frothing love AND hatred of the Star Wars universe. Though nothing matching the impressive level of cynicism of Lucas wearing (and apparently trademarking, or so I heard) a "Han Shot First!" T-shirt.

    You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I feel like i'm the only person in the world who has basically infinite love for the star wars expanded universe and everything in it. I haven't yet read a book that i didn't enjoy to some degree or another.

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    Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I feel like i'm the only person in the world who has basically infinite love for the star wars expanded universe and everything in it. I haven't yet read a book that i didn't enjoy to some degree or another.

    I feel the same, although I've read so many that I can't really do it anymore.

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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I feel like i'm the only person in the world who has basically infinite love for the star wars expanded universe and everything in it. I haven't yet read a book that i didn't enjoy to some degree or another.

    I almost feel this way, except for Barbara Hambly.

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    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
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