So, my question is what occurs if we happen to bandwagon Athan? Will the narration just say "Hey, you all tried to kill this guy, but he didn't die. How about that?" That seems like the best scenario for us, but if Athan is this hugely powerful evil guy, it makes more sense for him to kill all attackers, no? Or kill one? I don't mean to argue for Athan's prowess, but we kinda need to know what would happen if we happen to mob him. Don't want to suddenly lose half the force because we chanced to hit Athan.
Also, Funky's plan makes sense to me. If the Seers don't get in contact with one another, we'll have one seer with a buddy after night 1, two seers each with one buddy after night 2, and then 3 seers with one buddy after night 3. That's a greater initial return than Funky's plan...
But wait. Okay, Seer A looks at alleged Seer C on night one. Seer C is confirmed innocent, so Seer A tosses a PM over to C. C has no real reason to trust A at this point. B seers C on night two, again confirming C's innocence, and so B sends a PM to C. Again, C has no reason to trust B. So night three, what does C do? If C seers A or B, he can confirm their innocence, but that still doesn't necessarily confirm that the other is innocent. Perhaps if seer PMs are identical, as in, the PM that they get describing their investigation, then there's a chance that C could trust the other, but that seems unlikely to me. More likely, the seer that C investigates (A would probably be best) would have to then check out B to confirm his innocence, and then, finally, after night four, we'd have the seers in communication with each other. Assuming none of them randomly gets knocked off.
So, long story short, having the three seers contact each other like this takes up a lot of time and could easily be disrupted. Also, night four is realistically the earliest that the seers could all trust each other, and by that point at least eight of us will be dead.
Any other plans?
[EDIT] This post also assumes that the seers already know when they'll have a chance to investigate, which I don't believe has been confirmed. Could be mistaken though.
Well this is looking like it will be fun, I suppose there isn't a way to avoid the random band-wagoning of the first few days but I'll be holding off on voting till tomorrow just to see if seems more suspicious then.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Don't avoid voting because you don't know who to vote for; that doesn't help anybody. Everybody should vote for somebody every day. If you really really don't know who to vote for, then pick someone who's unlikely to get bandwagoned, though even that's less helpful than a vote for someone you find at least somewhat suspicious.
(vote for Smasher, he's obviously an assassin)
Smasher is right though, non-voting just pisses everyone off and leads to you getting killed by ElJeffe very quickly.
I'm glad that dyna is advising calm, because it means that the universe is completely on its head.
I advised calm in Shinto's New York mafia game. My calm and rational advice to the city of New York got me gunned down. Also, I was impatient because I wanted to go see my newborn nephew and not dick around with some retarded citizens that couldn't acknowledge my superior reason.
It's far too early for me to cast a vote, but I thought I would share some thoughts I had.
It would be very beneficial for us to link the 3 oracles together. Between the guardians and the resurrection staff, this should be pretty easy. Assuming that the oracles know which night they get their vision, the oracle who gets the third vision should go public today. The other two oracles can seer him tonight and tomorrow night and get in contact, and the third oracle can check one of them out on the third night if he feels it necessary. The guardians should protect the public oracle, and if that somehow fails, we have the staff.
Another word or two about the staff: it should probably be saved for use on the oracles, or on whatever else we get when the mechanics change. And please, if the staff holder thinks he's going to die, please pass it off to someone known not to be a bad guy.
I like this plan. Its really well thought out. We need to ensure high visibility so both the seers and guardians see it. Otherwise, in Dr. Zoidberg's Immortal Words: Disaster.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
I always hate this first day, having to accuse people without any proof or solid reasoning. Well, here goes nothing...
I !vote for Elkamil.
I recall ElJeffe saying in the pregame thread that half of Athan's allies would be chosen at random, and the other half would be chosen by Athan. Whoever is playing Athan is far more likely to choose a well known forumer like Elkamil than a nobody.
Johannen, that is incredibly fucking stupid. If you are an assassin it'd eliminate nearly all our specials at the cost of a single assassin life.
I !vote for Johannen for being incredibly fucking stupid (and dead please.)
Honestly your basic "Is this stupid?" radar should have gone off about a billion times thinking about that.
No, think about it. The only risk is that I could be an assassin. It's just throwing in one big risk that could potentially unite all our specials. It's a 50/50.
Also, go die in a hole you cunt. (that was a bit nasty of me. So, I change to "Your wrong and a paranoid fool")
I have an idea but it is very risky and will bring a lot of unwanted attention to me, ah fuck it.
The three oracles could PM me and then I could compare their PM's to ensure that they are the oracles (the assassins could make up PM's and all send me the same, but the risk for them is way higher than the risk for any of the oracles), then get one to seer another to see what is said. (Also, if more than three oracles PM me we will know that one or more of them is an assassin).
- Please don’t violate the spirit of the rules, here. Role PMs have been tailored in such a way that they should be useless as a means of identifying yourselves to others. Still, I may have overlooked something, so kindly don’t try to find a loophole that allows you to use your role PMs as ID.
I have an idea but it is very risky and will bring a lot of unwanted attention to me, ah fuck it.
The three oracles could PM me and then I could compare their PM's to ensure that they are the oracles (the assassins could make up PM's and all send me the same, but the risk for them is way higher than the risk for any of the oracles), then get one to seer another to see what is said. (Also, if more than three oracles PM me we will know that one or more of them is an assassin).
- Please don’t violate the spirit of the rules, here. Role PMs have been tailored in such a way that they should be useless as a means of identifying yourselves to others. Still, I may have overlooked something, so kindly don’t try to find a loophole that allows you to use your role PMs as ID.
We should take into account Athan, if he is the one the spies use to screw with us, wouldn't even die from staking.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2007
I pray to Apollo that stupid and faggy Athan be struck down by divine justice at some point in the near future...preferrably before some pederast Greeks shank me in my sleep.
It's far too early for me to cast a vote, but I thought I would share some thoughts I had.
It would be very beneficial for us to link the 3 oracles together. Between the guardians and the resurrection staff, this should be pretty easy. Assuming that the oracles know which night they get their vision, the oracle who gets the third vision should go public today. The other two oracles can seer him tonight and tomorrow night and get in contact, and the third oracle can check one of them out on the third night if he feels it necessary. The guardians should protect the public oracle, and if that somehow fails, we have the staff.
Another word or two about the staff: it should probably be saved for use on the oracles, or on whatever else we get when the mechanics change. And please, if the staff holder thinks he's going to die, please pass it off to someone known not to be a bad guy.
I think the idea of one of the seers coming forward is a good idea. If an assassin comes forward it means that he has lined himself up to be seered one of the first few nights, and since its possible (I think) to set up the network only once everyone has confirmed that the others are good guys, it really wouldn't benefit the assassins.
Lets see, how would this work:
If one person comes out as a seer...
Rounds 1 and 2: Guardians guard him, other oracles make sure he's innocent and get in contact with him.
Round 3: 3rd oracle seers the oracle that will go after him. Assuming he's innocent, he can trust him and now oracles 1 and 3 are in a network.
Round 4: 1st oracle seers 2nd oracle. If he's innocent, all of the seers are now in a network.
This does take a while, but it is airtight in the sense that no assassin could break into the network.
If multiple people claim to be the 3rd oracle...all of them will be under scrutiny. The Guardians will have to choose one of them to guard. The other oracles will have to just choose one to seer. If they get the real deal they can contact him, if they get an assassin, well, then they know who one of the assassins is (they won't be currently in a network, but the info will help them influence voting and when they do get in a network it will be useful). If the guardians guard the wrong guy and the real one is assassinated, everyone will just vote for liars.
Hmm, I dunno, I think it might worth a shot to try Dogg's strategy.
The instructions are certainly public, but perhaps the seers got a poem before their PM. I don't believe those are public.
Still, I don't think the oracles PMing anyone at this point is a good idea...7/60 of us are spies, that's more than 10%, and I don't like them odds.
[EDIT] Although inviting the wrath of ElJeffe is bad, so...nevermind then. :P
Cantide brings up a good point, about Athan having to recruit. If Athan's a new player, then recruiting experienced players makes sense to me. If Athan's experienced, though, he might recruit new players to keep them under the radar.
Knowing the identity of Athan would help us immensely. Therefore, I call on Athan to reveal himself. You're immortal, we can't possibly hurt you, can we? You've totally got nothing to lose. :P
It seems like the game changes on day 3/4, depending on when the invasion begins. As we have no way of dealing with Athan until then, it seems like it's a game of survival until we find a way.
I have an idea but it is very risky and will bring a lot of unwanted attention to me, ah fuck it.
The three oracles could PM me and then I could compare their PM's to ensure that they are the oracles (the assassins could make up PM's and all send me the same, but the risk for them is way higher than the risk for any of the oracles), then get one to seer another to see what is said. (Also, if more than three oracles PM me we will know that one or more of them is an assassin).
This way the three oracles could then meet eachother.
The risk is that I could be an assassin, if so then the plan goes to shit, but if not we have just linked the three oracles together and (if we can get the guardians too) we can get them protected when needed.
Edit: Or we could vote for someone to be PM'd by the seers and guardians.
Reading the thread and seeing some of the faults with Funky's plan, I am more inclined to agree with you. Perhaps the first oracle who gets a vision tonight, go public tomorrow if the person they seer is a hoplite. Then that person can be the focus point to compare the oracle messages. The first oracle will pm the chosen person before he chosen hoplite says he is chosen with the PM message, and then if any assassins try to fake it they will be found immediately. Of course we use up our two guardians on the chosen hoplite and the first seer. They would have to be protected, though we could sacerficie the chosen hoplite once the first seer has connected to the other two seers. Then the guardians could come forward to the first seer and with the help of the other two seers be confirmed by day four. Yes?
Yeah, that's a fair point.
If the seer seers a hoplite and then we use that hoplite as a central meeting point for the oracles. All PM's for the special roles should then go through that Hoplite.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
All that information is public. It would do us no good.
My plan wouldn't be public.
What I meant is, we all know what their PM would say. Check the OP.
Their PM's are all the same? Yeah that defaults the plan to death status.
Your plan is one of the worst fucking plans ever. Yes, all of our oracles, expose yourselves at once to an untested dude, surely no harm can come from that...
All that information is public. It would do us no good.
My plan wouldn't be public.
What I meant is, we all know what their PM would say. Check the OP.
Their PM's are all the same? Yeah that defaults the plan to death status.
Your plan is one of the worst fucking plans ever. Yes, all of our oracles, expose yourselves at once to an untested dude, surely no harm can come from that...
The plan got better when I realised that the oracle should first seer the guy he comes forward to.
Edit: Also, yes I did realise how stupid an idea it was due to the gaping holes and mistrust that is forced upon all of us. If the seer could seer the guy that they are PM'ing first though it could be done. Yet, we'd still need an oracle to come forward publicly first anyway.
I always hate this first day, having to accuse people without any proof or solid reasoning. Well, here goes nothing...
I !vote for Elkamil.
I recall ElJeffe saying in the pregame thread that half of Athan's allies would be chosen at random, and the other half would be chosen by Athan. Whoever is playing Athan is far more likely to choose a well known forumer like Elkamil than a nobody.
I don't remember reading that anywhere. Are you sure he said it?
- Roles will be randomly chosen, for reals this time. If all the special slots wind up being assigned to people who've never posted before and they all no-show, well, sucks to be the village. The exception to this is that Athan, the head bad guy, will get to choose half of his allies. The other half will be randomly selected.
I would change my vote for Johannen, but you know what? Even if he was thinking stupdily, haven't we all had a dumbass idea?
That my friends is one spy covering for the other spy.
I'm not a spy. Would they really give a first timer the spy role?
I'm digging my own grave, aren't I?
*starts whistling while digging*
All the roles were given out randomly, with the exception of 3 spies whom Athlan picked, according to ElJeffe so its possibly for anyone to be a spy.
Strike Two!
And what about you? Huh? Voting for Cass. What reason had you to do that? It's very suspicous. Just first thing going for someone who had done nothing. Why would you do that?
- Roles will be randomly chosen, for reals this time. If all the special slots wind up being assigned to people who've never posted before and they all no-show, well, sucks to be the village. The exception to this is that Athan, the head bad guy, will get to choose half of his allies. The other half will be randomly selected.
Alright, thanks.
Actually then, yeah, I think we should really be wary of the more experience players.
Posts
Also, Funky's plan makes sense to me. If the Seers don't get in contact with one another, we'll have one seer with a buddy after night 1, two seers each with one buddy after night 2, and then 3 seers with one buddy after night 3. That's a greater initial return than Funky's plan...
But wait. Okay, Seer A looks at alleged Seer C on night one. Seer C is confirmed innocent, so Seer A tosses a PM over to C. C has no real reason to trust A at this point. B seers C on night two, again confirming C's innocence, and so B sends a PM to C. Again, C has no reason to trust B. So night three, what does C do? If C seers A or B, he can confirm their innocence, but that still doesn't necessarily confirm that the other is innocent. Perhaps if seer PMs are identical, as in, the PM that they get describing their investigation, then there's a chance that C could trust the other, but that seems unlikely to me. More likely, the seer that C investigates (A would probably be best) would have to then check out B to confirm his innocence, and then, finally, after night four, we'd have the seers in communication with each other. Assuming none of them randomly gets knocked off.
So, long story short, having the three seers contact each other like this takes up a lot of time and could easily be disrupted. Also, night four is realistically the earliest that the seers could all trust each other, and by that point at least eight of us will be dead.
Any other plans?
[EDIT] This post also assumes that the seers already know when they'll have a chance to investigate, which I don't believe has been confirmed. Could be mistaken though.
Smasher is right though, non-voting just pisses everyone off and leads to you getting killed by ElJeffe very quickly.
Ah well. If I die, just the first body to go in a line of many.
I like this plan. Its really well thought out. We need to ensure high visibility so both the seers and guardians see it. Otherwise, in Dr. Zoidberg's Immortal Words: Disaster.
So be it...
You drew you sword at me first.
I retract my vote for Dread Pirate Cassandra, she is an ok babe and vote to execute Senor Fish.
Yes, I'm just holding off on a vote till Monday(since there is no death tonight).
If I read the rules wrong and there is a death tonight then I !vote for Manning'sEquation(retracted page 14) because hey, bandwagons are fun.
I !vote for Elkamil.
I recall ElJeffe saying in the pregame thread that half of Athan's allies would be chosen at random, and the other half would be chosen by Athan. Whoever is playing Athan is far more likely to choose a well known forumer like Elkamil than a nobody.
I !vote for Johannen for being incredibly fucking stupid (and dead please.)
Honestly your basic "Is this stupid?" radar should have gone off about a billion times thinking about that.
Edit: Also against the rules that ElJeffe asked to follow about using PM's as ID. Yea, cheating and incompetence....a strong platform for execution.
My plan wouldn't be public.
What I meant is, we all know what their PM would say. Check the OP.
No, think about it. The only risk is that I could be an assassin. It's just throwing in one big risk that could potentially unite all our specials. It's a 50/50.
Also, go die in a hole you cunt. (that was a bit nasty of me. So, I change to "Your wrong and a paranoid fool")
Their PM's are all the same? Yeah that defaults the plan to death status.
I think you are inviting the god's wrath.
aaaah fair enough. I skipped half of it. My bad.
I think the idea of one of the seers coming forward is a good idea. If an assassin comes forward it means that he has lined himself up to be seered one of the first few nights, and since its possible (I think) to set up the network only once everyone has confirmed that the others are good guys, it really wouldn't benefit the assassins.
Lets see, how would this work:
If one person comes out as a seer...
Rounds 1 and 2: Guardians guard him, other oracles make sure he's innocent and get in contact with him.
Round 3: 3rd oracle seers the oracle that will go after him. Assuming he's innocent, he can trust him and now oracles 1 and 3 are in a network.
Round 4: 1st oracle seers 2nd oracle. If he's innocent, all of the seers are now in a network.
This does take a while, but it is airtight in the sense that no assassin could break into the network.
If multiple people claim to be the 3rd oracle...all of them will be under scrutiny. The Guardians will have to choose one of them to guard. The other oracles will have to just choose one to seer. If they get the real deal they can contact him, if they get an assassin, well, then they know who one of the assassins is (they won't be currently in a network, but the info will help them influence voting and when they do get in a network it will be useful). If the guardians guard the wrong guy and the real one is assassinated, everyone will just vote for liars.
Hmm, I dunno, I think it might worth a shot to try Dogg's strategy.
That my friends is one spy covering for the other spy.
Still, I don't think the oracles PMing anyone at this point is a good idea...7/60 of us are spies, that's more than 10%, and I don't like them odds.
[EDIT] Although inviting the wrath of ElJeffe is bad, so...nevermind then. :P
Cantide brings up a good point, about Athan having to recruit. If Athan's a new player, then recruiting experienced players makes sense to me. If Athan's experienced, though, he might recruit new players to keep them under the radar.
Knowing the identity of Athan would help us immensely. Therefore, I call on Athan to reveal himself. You're immortal, we can't possibly hurt you, can we? You've totally got nothing to lose. :P
It seems like the game changes on day 3/4, depending on when the invasion begins. As we have no way of dealing with Athan until then, it seems like it's a game of survival until we find a way.
Yeah, that's a fair point.
If the seer seers a hoplite and then we use that hoplite as a central meeting point for the oracles. All PM's for the special roles should then go through that Hoplite.
I'm digging my own grave, aren't I?
*starts whistling while digging*
The plan got better when I realised that the oracle should first seer the guy he comes forward to.
Edit: Also, yes I did realise how stupid an idea it was due to the gaping holes and mistrust that is forced upon all of us. If the seer could seer the guy that they are PM'ing first though it could be done. Yet, we'd still need an oracle to come forward publicly first anyway.
I don't remember reading that anywhere. Are you sure he said it?
All the roles were given out randomly, with the exception of 3 spies whom Athlan picked, according to ElJeffe so its possibly for anyone to be a spy.
Strike Two!
Listen. I am not a spy. Je a hoplite. Je n'a pas de spy.
I was gonna say that, actually. Not that I actually think they're spies (yet...if one of them turns out to be one we can always kill the other).
But anyway, I vote Rygar
Rygar is too much of a wild card to keep around.
Alright, thanks.
Actually then, yeah, I think we should really be wary of the more experience players.