I don't really count on this, but only because the new Xin is basically just a good top/jungle like Riven, Jax, and others already were. The Malphite FOTM was a bit different since he actually directly counters many common tops, and more importantly, could just build armor and 1v4 everybody on the enemy team besides the AP, heh. The new Xin is fun and powerful, but like you said, just well done, not OP or anything.
Honestly, I don't think Malphite was overpowered in an absolute sense. He was just a huge pain in the ass versus a lot of common comps, and people weren't properly accounting for Ground Slam. Either way, though, the revised version of Crescent Sweep is what's going to attract attention on Xin some time soon, because that thing is sick. Somebody will hit one of those that goes into the collective "Lee Sin kicked a dude into an Ashe Arrow! OMG!" brain-trust and he'll take off.
I definitely agree with that. Champion design now is far more sophisticated than GP's kit. If he were released right now, he'd be seen as nothing but a support IMO.
GP also has the problem of being kind of useless in team fights outside his ult, because if he builds damage all he can do is parley the front line of the enemy team because if he carry dives he's dead instantly, and if he builds tanky he doesn't do that much damage and is an ult/buff bot. All of this is of course fairly irrelevant because against almost anybody he will get crushed so hard during laning he'll be a total non factor and your team's top will be wrecking people.
Actually if he builds tanky and doesn't get stomped in lane he actually is a major pain in the ass, you can't lock him down because of scurvy, you can't blow him up because he is tanky, He sticks to people easily because of his passive (which is applied by parrrley still I think? they may have changed that), his parrrley still hits pretty hard (and even tanky GP's go for items like atmas) He becomes this unkillable bastard that can 1v3 people and strut around the map.
At the moment though it's pretty easy to shut him down in lane, but if he does get to that point (or god forbid he gets ahead of the game) he can still be a major PITA.
If you have a GP top you need to have a strong ganking jungle basically babysit him and feed him kills.
Oh and that buff he gives his entire team (which is half the buff he gets himself) is pretty strong. At max rank his raise morale give shim 40 AD for 7 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. The passive effect is a flat 16, and the active effect also gives him a 20% movement speed boost.
If he hits his entire team with raise morale, that is an additional 120 AD in the mix. That is an absurdly powerful buff to bring to a teamfight.
If he builds tanky he's about 10 times worse as an anti carry than Irelia or Olaf, and if he's as farmed as you describe, your AD carry will still cut through him like butter with a last whisper. He's not worthless, but built tanky he's an ult/buff bot, who is considerably less of a factor in team fights than most common top laners. Fed Irelia, Jax, Riven, Olaf, Rumble, Yorick, Jayce, and probably a bunch of others I'm not even thinking of are better than him. He's not bad by any stretch, just outshined, and he can't get through laning anyway.
If you build him tanky he is not an anti-carry, he is an anti-the entire enemy team,
I feel like you think GP is way better than he is, lol. Built tanky, he's basically just an ult and buff bot, so what's he going to do in team fights? Ult, put raise morale on, then get killed by the enemy team's AD carry while their Jax or Olaf is killing your AD carry and now you lost the team fight. A good top laner ideally is going to be a good anti carry(Olaf, Irelia, Jax, Poppy, Renekton, Farmed Nasus(yeah right)), a good initiator(Malphite, Wukong, Kennen, etc.), or a high damage carry type(Riven, Lee Sin, Rumble, Vlad, Darius can build tanky and still basically do this)
GP is just outshined hard by almost all of them even if he can get through laning, which he can't against basically anybody.
Yes, that's what we're saying. He's outclassed during laning, and functional - even good, against teams with CC that Remove Scurvy can beat - in teamfights if you get past laning with a reasonable amount of gold somehow.
In D&D terms, he's a bard: Gangplank makes everyone around him better. but isn't a good core party member in the sense that he doesn't do any one thing very well. In 4E-specific D&D terms, he's a Warlord, and League of Legends' metagame favors Leaders who work from the back (except Taric, who is a special case because that's a beautiful kit they can't really replicate). Gangplank is one of the biggest victims of what is probably best described as role-creep in League of Legends; since they released Xin things have been trending away from bruisers with utility and towards characters like Fiora and Darius whose utility functions, if any, are attached to making their damage happen. Jarvan was the next-to-last bruiser release I can think of with an actual utility ability: Demacian Standard. From him until Jayce, there's not anyone else but maybe Yorick with an honest-to-god buff or synergistic ability. Even then, all three of those guys' utility abilities still point them towards more damage in one way or another.
He, like many older releases, needs an aggressive re-design that points him towards a particular role, because they've made the specialist champions so much better at their jobs that the generalists are suffering.
And just to reiterate:
GOOD.
Let him sit in obscurity for awhile/forever.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I get the feeling that you don't really care for GP. =P
Somebody playing against Delph should first pick GP, then he will pick Fiora, then just jungle GP and counterpick Fiora. Then the jungle GP just ganks top every 3 minutes, especially when ult is up. I'm just playing though, hehe.
Joshmvii on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I definitely agree with that. Champion design now is far more sophisticated than GP's kit. If he were released right now, he'd be seen as nothing but a support IMO.
Probably. The joke with me is that if they released Master Yi in 2011 instead of 2009, Wuju Style would shoot lasers at people when it activated and Highlander would give him the move-speed and a Guardian Angel effect.
It's a real pain to watch them progressively make guys like Trundle obsolete just by constant boundary-pushing. Plus side, with patience, it gets us the Evelynn and Twitch remakes, which I haven't seen anyone actually saddened by. I do miss Trundle actually being able to act as a walking debuff in a useful way, though.
I get the feeling that you don't really care for GP. =P
Somebody playing against Delph should first pick GP, then he will pick Fiora, then just jungle GP and counterpick Fiora. Then the jungle GP just ganks top every 3 minutes, especially when ult is up. I'm just playing though, hehe.
... why you gotta read my mind?
Oh, and one of you Dominion guys: Does Gangplank suck in Dominion? He seems like he'd be a lot more use in an environment where a 0 CS support isn't a thing that happens.
Friend posted this on Skype and I don't have a source link since I'm too lazy to find it but,
"Diana is an experiment and a culmination of feedback in terms of visual design and character design in general.
Every comment I've gotten in the past from high-heels on Leona, to lessons on boob-plates vs. breast-plates, to skin exposure, to that whole.. "it has to read as female" thing I said, etc, has been considered in her design. I wanted to make someone very unique.
She is not ostentatious, she is not flamboyant, she is not overly sexual. She is sleek and deadly. She is contemplative and appropriately detached. She is a tragic figure but a triumphant one. Her story is one of defiance, perseverance, exile, validation and surrender. She is not vapid, nor shallow, nor simple. She is elegant yet vicious. She is not hateful, she is determined."
IronStylus is doing Diana's art which makes sense.
butts
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I hope it goes places beyond just the first post. ]:
Talon / Diana? I think not. Diana deserves better. Clearly she should wish to take Garen away from Soccer Captain Katarina. They could make sleek, deadly plate-armor babies.
GP also has the problem of being kind of useless in team fights outside his ult, because if he builds damage all he can do is parley the front line of the enemy team because if he carry dives he's dead instantly, and if he builds tanky he doesn't do that much damage and is an ult/buff bot. All of this is of course fairly irrelevant because against almost anybody he will get crushed so hard during laning he'll be a total non factor and your team's top will be wrecking people.
Actually if he builds tanky and doesn't get stomped in lane he actually is a major pain in the ass, you can't lock him down because of scurvy, you can't blow him up because he is tanky, He sticks to people easily because of his passive (which is applied by parrrley still I think? they may have changed that), his parrrley still hits pretty hard (and even tanky GP's go for items like atmas) He becomes this unkillable bastard that can 1v3 people and strut around the map.
At the moment though it's pretty easy to shut him down in lane, but if he does get to that point (or god forbid he gets ahead of the game) he can still be a major PITA.
If you have a GP top you need to have a strong ganking jungle basically babysit him and feed him kills.
Oh and that buff he gives his entire team (which is half the buff he gets himself) is pretty strong. At max rank his raise morale give shim 40 AD for 7 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. The passive effect is a flat 16, and the active effect also gives him a 20% movement speed boost.
If he hits his entire team with raise morale, that is an additional 120 AD in the mix. That is an absurdly powerful buff to bring to a teamfight.
Yeah, if you can get him out of the laning phase without him getting wrecked, Gangplank levels off into a solid bruiser. It's a little bit of a big if right now is the thing. Remove Scurvy is basically a dead button in lane at the moment, and I suspect that's the issue.
Really? I feel it's Raise Morale that's the bad one in lane. If you level Scurvy 2nd and have the mana to support it, it's not that bad of a heal to keep him alive through basic harass.
Raise Morale and Scurvy have the same presumptive job in-lane, which is to win Gangplank trades. You have to pick one, and they've both got long cooldowns, and you're definitely maxing Parrrley first. Unless you ignore Raise Morale entirely (maybe that works? I don't know), that's level 8 before you're healing more than what will likely be, by that time, one auto-attack worth of damage from someone with it.
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Yeah I always raise morale first, although with the mana refund change I would probably start raising Parrley if I was laning against someone I couldn't really beat.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I get the feeling that you don't really care for GP. =P
Somebody playing against Delph should first pick GP, then he will pick Fiora, then just jungle GP and counterpick Fiora. Then the jungle GP just ganks top every 3 minutes, especially when ult is up. I'm just playing though, hehe.
Damn! that would suck.
Until I jungle Fiora and FIND YOU.
Or just go top and find you anyways.
I WILL FIND YOU.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Oh, and one of you Dominion guys: Does Gangplank suck in Dominion? He seems like he'd be a lot more use in an environment where a 0 CS support isn't a thing that happens.
He's still pretty good in Dominion, but that's mostly because his utility is particularly handy there. Movement speed buffs and the ability to prevent point captures from across the map? Yeah, very nice.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Oh, and one of you Dominion guys: Does Gangplank suck in Dominion? He seems like he'd be a lot more use in an environment where a 0 CS support isn't a thing that happens.
He's still pretty good in Dominion, but that's mostly because his utility is particularly handy there. Movement speed buffs and the ability to prevent point captures from across the map? Yeah, very nice.
Yeah, non-scientific testing in a couple games just now suggests that if I had been on a team of people with the least notion how to stick together, I'd have done quite well there with him. That's a relief, at least he's good for something. Honestly, I'm okay with subpar-on-SR guys being good for Dominion. Shame Riot isn't.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
I don't worry about old champions being phased out since this is Riot and they will work their best to make them cool anyhow. Trundle is in a good place so I imagine they don't want to mess with that. If they did though, they could make earth penis twice as big, or have his ultimate apply the debuff twice as fast. Any champion in this game is a stone's throw away from crap to OP as balls.
I don't worry about old champions being phased out since this is Riot and they will work their best to make them cool anyhow. Trundle is in a good place so I imagine they don't want to mess with that. If they did though, they could make earth penis twice as big, or have his ultimate apply the debuff twice as fast. Any champion in this game is a stone's throw away from crap to OP as balls.
Trundle honestly doesn't need buffs. He got weakened by making his ult not work on dragon/baron and also with the introduction of the new jungle, but only indirectly because it made it easier for other champs to jungle and aoe clears are now ideal. Trundle is a very good champion with a kit that is the total opposite of flashy. All 4 of his skills are useful, but only Q is a real damage skill. I play him now and again, and with a sheen and tanky items, ending your build pure tank plus triforce, he's a beast. Ult the tankiest guy on their team to make him paper for your AD carry, use your pillar to split their team/zone them in toward you, drop W, get on their AD carry and Q his face off. If you time Qs right after his autos he deals solid damage even with no damage items but the triforce.
There are plenty of other junglers who are flashier and in many ways better than him, faster clears, better ganks, hard initiation, better peel skills, etc., but there's a reason he's neither been buffed nor nerfed. He's very well balanced.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Trundle honestly doesn't need buffs. He got weakened by making his ult not work on dragon/baron and also with the introduction of the new jungle, but only indirectly because it made it easier for other champs to jungle and aoe clears are now ideal. Trundle is a very good champion with a kit that is the total opposite of flashy. All 4 of his skills are useful, but only Q is a real damage skill. I play him now and again, and with a sheen and tanky items, ending your build pure tank plus triforce, he's a beast. Ult the tankiest guy on their team to make him paper for your AD carry, use your pillar to split their team/zone them in toward you, drop W, get on their AD carry and Q his face off. If you time Qs right after his autos he deals solid damage even with no damage items but the triforce.
There are plenty of other junglers who are flashier and in many ways better than him, faster clears, better ganks, hard initiation, better peel skills, etc., but there's a reason he's neither been buffed nor nerfed. He's very well balanced.
Disagree on whether he needs buffs, agree that he still works, not least because he's the only one doing that job. Mainly he could use more enemy value-based scaling, because for very high values of damage, losing 20 doesn't matter much, and the admittedly not core to the ability's use damage portion of Agony is negligible on the targets you're using it on most of the time. If Eve's R can do %health-based damage in an AoE, Agony ought to do it to its only target.
Friend posted this on Skype and I don't have a source link since I'm too lazy to find it but,
"Diana is an experiment and a culmination of feedback in terms of visual design and character design in general.
Every comment I've gotten in the past from high-heels on Leona, to lessons on boob-plates vs. breast-plates, to skin exposure, to that whole.. "it has to read as female" thing I said, etc, has been considered in her design. I wanted to make someone very unique.
She is not ostentatious, she is not flamboyant, she is not overly sexual. She is sleek and deadly. She is contemplative and appropriately detached. She is a tragic figure but a triumphant one. Her story is one of defiance, perseverance, exile, validation and surrender. She is not vapid, nor shallow, nor simple. She is elegant yet vicious. She is not hateful, she is determined."
IronStylus is doing Diana's art which makes sense.
Friend posted this on Skype and I don't have a source link since I'm too lazy to find it but,
"Diana is an experiment and a culmination of feedback in terms of visual design and character design in general.
Every comment I've gotten in the past from high-heels on Leona, to lessons on boob-plates vs. breast-plates, to skin exposure, to that whole.. "it has to read as female" thing I said, etc, has been considered in her design. I wanted to make someone very unique.
She is not ostentatious, she is not flamboyant, she is not overly sexual. She is sleek and deadly. She is contemplative and appropriately detached. She is a tragic figure but a triumphant one. Her story is one of defiance, perseverance, exile, validation and surrender. She is not vapid, nor shallow, nor simple. She is elegant yet vicious. She is not hateful, she is determined."
IronStylus is doing Diana's art which makes sense.
Yeah, Trundle is one of those champs that could be buffed and still not be OP, that's for sure. If tomorrow they patched in %max HP based damage on his ult I don't think it would suddenly make him OP. If I could pick one buff for him, it would probably be either to let him dash one time to a location on his W after activation, or give his pillar like a 1s immobilize when it comes out on somebody, something like that, but who knows. I know I saw in a supposed "leak" screenshot of the private PBE forums(the ones where the alleged Heimer rework screenshots came from) that there was a thread in those forums by riot about Trundle changes. No idea if any of that is legit or not though.
I definitely agree he needs a new skin though, haha.
Joshmvii on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Friend posted this on Skype and I don't have a source link since I'm too lazy to find it but,
"Diana is an experiment and a culmination of feedback in terms of visual design and character design in general.
Every comment I've gotten in the past from high-heels on Leona, to lessons on boob-plates vs. breast-plates, to skin exposure, to that whole.. "it has to read as female" thing I said, etc, has been considered in her design. I wanted to make someone very unique.
She is not ostentatious, she is not flamboyant, she is not overly sexual. She is sleek and deadly. She is contemplative and appropriately detached. She is a tragic figure but a triumphant one. Her story is one of defiance, perseverance, exile, validation and surrender. She is not vapid, nor shallow, nor simple. She is elegant yet vicious. She is not hateful, she is determined."
IronStylus is doing Diana's art which makes sense.
Yes, that's the bigger issue. :P The smaller one is that -20 damage is great at 25 minutes and sort of forgettable at 40, as is 250 health you're probably mitigating a third to a half of on any reasonable target for Agony by 16.
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
His ult is actually 500 health stolen(250 up front, 250 over 6 seconds, and it does have AP scaling, though nobody builds AP on him outside triforce.) Also, the 50% armor/MR sap is far and away the reason you use that skill. I agree that the AD sapping should be bumped on Q, though it's 1.2 AD scaling on a 4 second CD that will be reduced with your frozen heart plus the 40 AD it gives you is still pretty wonderful.
I agree that his kit could use something else to make it more fun, because his W, E, and R, while all powerful enough, lack any sort of excitement in using them.
Updated the second post on page 1 to detail about PAving Grounds. Obviously not done with it, and there will always be small tweaks here and there to better explain what people don't understand. If some of it sounds like Hargaad is talking to you guys like you're retarded, it's to eliminate any doubt as to how clear-cut the rules are meant to be.
Give some people an inch, and they'll take a mile, ya know?
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
I don't think anyone is saying GP is on par with what are probably the two best top lane fighters in the game, but he's hardly as gimped as people are making out.
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
Yeah, not sure the meager damage rank 1 parley does is going to outweigh the fact that as soon as he comes in to melee a creep the top is going to jump on him and out trade anyway. There's a reason GP rarely gets played top. He gets countered by like almost every single champion that gets played top.
Joshmvii on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
I don't think anyone is saying GP is on par with what are probably the two best top lane fighters in the game, but he's hardly as gimped as people are making out.
Sure. He's still playable, definitely useful after the laning phase on nearly any team, and - as with Jungle Olaf, which is also pretty bad by comparison to the other options right now - there's a right way to play him which gets acceptable results. These things were also true of Xin Zhao before they reworked him; I recall Zen going hog-wild with him in a Painhouse round before the revisions not that long ago.
I didn't pick two mean-as-hell tops by accident, I picked them because they're popular at the moment. Wukong should, in theory, give Gangplank similar amounts of trouble. If this were an MMO, Gangplank would look great on target dummy DPS meters and get blown away by the Darius and Rumble and Olaf players in actual raids. Of course, he'd also get the raid invite so he could buff most of those guys' damage. League isn't an MMO, though, and Gangplank doesn't get the invite for Summoner's Rift five-mans at the moment more often than not. It's really too bad.
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
I don't think anyone is saying GP is on par with what are probably the two best top lane fighters in the game, but he's hardly as gimped as people are making out.
Sure. He's still playable, definitely useful after the laning phase on nearly any team, and - as with Jungle Olaf, which is also pretty bad by comparison to the other options right now - there's a right way to play him which gets acceptable results. These things were also true of Xin Zhao before they reworked him; I recall Zen going hog-wild with him in a Painhouse round before the revisions not that long ago.
I didn't pick two mean-as-hell tops by accident, I picked them because they're popular at the moment. Wukong should, in theory, give Gangplank similar amounts of trouble. If this were an MMO, Gangplank would look great on target dummy DPS meters and get blown away by the Darius and Rumble and Olaf players in actual raids. Of course, he'd also get the raid invite so he could buff most of those guys' damage. League isn't an MMO, though, and Gangplank doesn't get the invite for Summoner's Rift five-mans at the moment more often than not. It's really too bad.
You had me right up until the end there
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Rumble's got something that is close to a rank 1 crowstorm on demand with no cast time; I don't think anybody can really trade favorably with him at the moment.
Against the majority of tops, Gangplank might not win, but I also can't see him dying and I can reasonably see a moraleplank or even a parrlayplank simply winning the gold game by making it a farmfest. I mean, what's Darius, for example, going to do to engage a Gangplank that isn't trying to push the lane and last hits with Parrlay? Gangplank is faster than him and unless he's ranking it up, his hook (required to setup his slow) is on a cooldown that's barely better than Gangplank's citrus. Likewise, I can't see Olaf ever successfully engaging on a passive Gangplank. Wu-Kong... yeah, that fucks GP up; you basically have to have an active gap closer on a decent cooldown to threaten passiveplank.
milski on
I ate an engineer
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Rumble's got a more-than Rank 1 Crowstorm with no cast time on demand... comparing him to anybody melee is a bit silly.
Yes, and it's about to get fixed and has only been that way since they thought of and implemented a better way to handle what was until then an unreliable but sometimes-amazing skill. When they get Flamethrower back in line with expectations, it will still be good.
Rumble's got something that is close to a rank 1 crowstorm on demand with no cast time; I don't think anybody can really trade favorably with him at the moment.
Against the majority of tops, Gangplank might not win, but I also can't see him dying and I can reasonably see a moraleplank or even a parrlayplank simply winning the gold game by making it a farmfest. I mean, what's Darius, for example, going to do to engage a Gangplank that isn't trying to push the lane and last hits with Parrlay? Gangplank is faster than him and unless he's ranking it up, his hook (required to setup his slow) is on a cooldown that's barely better than Gangplank's citrus. Likewise, I can't see Olaf ever successfully engaging on a passive Gangplank. Wu-Kong... yeah, that fucks GP up; you basically have to have an active gap closer on a decent cooldown to threaten passiveplank.
This is how most GP's I've seen play as well. Farm safely up top, get gold, repeat until 30 minutes, destroy the world.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Against the majority of tops, Gangplank might not win, but I also can't see him dying and I can reasonably see a moraleplank or even a parrlayplank simply winning the gold game by making it a farmfest. I mean, what's Darius, for example, going to do to engage a Gangplank that isn't trying to push the lane and last hits with Parrlay? Gangplank is faster than him and unless he's ranking it up, his hook (required to setup his slow) is on a cooldown that's barely better than Gangplank's citrus. Likewise, I can't see Olaf ever successfully engaging on a passive Gangplank. Wu-Kong... yeah, that fucks GP up; you basically have to have an active gap closer on a decent cooldown to threaten passiveplank.
Sure, but passiveplank doesn't threaten Darius, so he gets his farm and not much happens for either of them. As you said that's not a win for Gangplank, that's a draw. Top does get played to a draw a lot, so that's well and good, but in a totally made-up statistic, 100% of people prefer to win top.
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Honestly, I don't think Malphite was overpowered in an absolute sense. He was just a huge pain in the ass versus a lot of common comps, and people weren't properly accounting for Ground Slam. Either way, though, the revised version of Crescent Sweep is what's going to attract attention on Xin some time soon, because that thing is sick. Somebody will hit one of those that goes into the collective "Lee Sin kicked a dude into an Ashe Arrow! OMG!" brain-trust and he'll take off.
And just to reiterate:
GOOD.
Let him sit in obscurity for awhile/forever.
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Somebody playing against Delph should first pick GP, then he will pick Fiora, then just jungle GP and counterpick Fiora. Then the jungle GP just ganks top every 3 minutes, especially when ult is up. I'm just playing though, hehe.
Probably. The joke with me is that if they released Master Yi in 2011 instead of 2009, Wuju Style would shoot lasers at people when it activated and Highlander would give him the move-speed and a Guardian Angel effect.
It's a real pain to watch them progressively make guys like Trundle obsolete just by constant boundary-pushing. Plus side, with patience, it gets us the Evelynn and Twitch remakes, which I haven't seen anyone actually saddened by. I do miss Trundle actually being able to act as a walking debuff in a useful way, though.
... why you gotta read my mind?
Oh, and one of you Dominion guys: Does Gangplank suck in Dominion? He seems like he'd be a lot more use in an environment where a 0 CS support isn't a thing that happens.
"Diana is an experiment and a culmination of feedback in terms of visual design and character design in general.
Every comment I've gotten in the past from high-heels on Leona, to lessons on boob-plates vs. breast-plates, to skin exposure, to that whole.. "it has to read as female" thing I said, etc, has been considered in her design. I wanted to make someone very unique.
She is not ostentatious, she is not flamboyant, she is not overly sexual. She is sleek and deadly. She is contemplative and appropriately detached. She is a tragic figure but a triumphant one. Her story is one of defiance, perseverance, exile, validation and surrender. She is not vapid, nor shallow, nor simple. She is elegant yet vicious. She is not hateful, she is determined."
IronStylus is doing Diana's art which makes sense.
I hope it goes places beyond just the first post. ]:
this is excellent
madoka crossovers with everything forever
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
Talon / Diana? I think not. Diana deserves better. Clearly she should wish to take Garen away from Soccer Captain Katarina. They could make sleek, deadly plate-armor babies.
You know how I know you guys don't play Gangplank? You say max Parrrley first. Too high mana costs for too little return.
You use Parrrley to last hit and pump Raise Morale, which in turn pumps Parrrley's damage and makes him faster. So you are faster than your lane opponent, farm safely, and have higher AD than them (Unless they are Fiora) So you use your higher stats to bully them and AA them, and when your jungle comes to gank, you pop Raise Morale and they can't run with your massive speed advantage and stacking slow.
Damn! that would suck.
Until I jungle Fiora and FIND YOU.
Or just go top and find you anyways.
I WILL FIND YOU.
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He's still pretty good in Dominion, but that's mostly because his utility is particularly handy there. Movement speed buffs and the ability to prevent point captures from across the map? Yeah, very nice.
Yeah, non-scientific testing in a couple games just now suggests that if I had been on a team of people with the least notion how to stick together, I'd have done quite well there with him. That's a relief, at least he's good for something. Honestly, I'm okay with subpar-on-SR guys being good for Dominion. Shame Riot isn't.
Okay. Suppose you go that route: You're still attempting to win the laning phase by not fighting people and you've taken away the one button you can push to do direct damage. I'm not seeing that beating most top champions, and either way you're in the same "surviving the laning phase through passive play and paranoia," trap.
trundle needs a new damn skin
nothing since his release (December 2010!)
There are plenty of other junglers who are flashier and in many ways better than him, faster clears, better ganks, hard initiation, better peel skills, etc., but there's a reason he's neither been buffed nor nerfed. He's very well balanced.
Disagree on whether he needs buffs, agree that he still works, not least because he's the only one doing that job. Mainly he could use more enemy value-based scaling, because for very high values of damage, losing 20 doesn't matter much, and the admittedly not core to the ability's use damage portion of Agony is negligible on the targets you're using it on most of the time. If Eve's R can do %health-based damage in an AoE, Agony ought to do it to its only target.
I definitely agree he needs a new skin though, haha.
Yes, that's the bigger issue. :P The smaller one is that -20 damage is great at 25 minutes and sort of forgettable at 40, as is 250 health you're probably mitigating a third to a half of on any reasonable target for Agony by 16.
If you parrrley harass you run OOM. No question, especially if you level it first. With Raise Morale, you skirmish. Run in, parrrley, AA a couple of times, the back out because they are slowed and you have the passive MS buff. You win the trade due to grog soaked blades and your passive AD boost. Rinse and repeat. He's not a duelist, you have to play hit and run.
I agree that his kit could use something else to make it more fun, because his W, E, and R, while all powerful enough, lack any sort of excitement in using them.
Give some people an inch, and they'll take a mile, ya know?
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Not buying it, due to the regularity with which I see Gangplanks get punked in trades and rolled over at top. I'm sure you've got the methodology right, but you cannot seriously be telling me a R1 Parrrley and some autoattacks is worth more damage than what Darius or Olaf is likely to do to you in that same timeframe, can you?
If the pillar could be cast anywhere on the map, had about twice the AoE, and could randomly do nothing, or outright kill you, then I would agree.
As it is it's pretty tame in comparison
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I don't think anyone is saying GP is on par with what are probably the two best top lane fighters in the game, but he's hardly as gimped as people are making out.
Yeah, not sure the meager damage rank 1 parley does is going to outweigh the fact that as soon as he comes in to melee a creep the top is going to jump on him and out trade anyway. There's a reason GP rarely gets played top. He gets countered by like almost every single champion that gets played top.
Sure. He's still playable, definitely useful after the laning phase on nearly any team, and - as with Jungle Olaf, which is also pretty bad by comparison to the other options right now - there's a right way to play him which gets acceptable results. These things were also true of Xin Zhao before they reworked him; I recall Zen going hog-wild with him in a Painhouse round before the revisions not that long ago.
I didn't pick two mean-as-hell tops by accident, I picked them because they're popular at the moment. Wukong should, in theory, give Gangplank similar amounts of trouble. If this were an MMO, Gangplank would look great on target dummy DPS meters and get blown away by the Darius and Rumble and Olaf players in actual raids. Of course, he'd also get the raid invite so he could buff most of those guys' damage. League isn't an MMO, though, and Gangplank doesn't get the invite for Summoner's Rift five-mans at the moment more often than not. It's really too bad.
You had me right up until the end there
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Against the majority of tops, Gangplank might not win, but I also can't see him dying and I can reasonably see a moraleplank or even a parrlayplank simply winning the gold game by making it a farmfest. I mean, what's Darius, for example, going to do to engage a Gangplank that isn't trying to push the lane and last hits with Parrlay? Gangplank is faster than him and unless he's ranking it up, his hook (required to setup his slow) is on a cooldown that's barely better than Gangplank's citrus. Likewise, I can't see Olaf ever successfully engaging on a passive Gangplank. Wu-Kong... yeah, that fucks GP up; you basically have to have an active gap closer on a decent cooldown to threaten passiveplank.
Yes, and it's about to get fixed and has only been that way since they thought of and implemented a better way to handle what was until then an unreliable but sometimes-amazing skill. When they get Flamethrower back in line with expectations, it will still be good.
This is how most GP's I've seen play as well. Farm safely up top, get gold, repeat until 30 minutes, destroy the world.
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Sure, but passiveplank doesn't threaten Darius, so he gets his farm and not much happens for either of them. As you said that's not a win for Gangplank, that's a draw. Top does get played to a draw a lot, so that's well and good, but in a totally made-up statistic, 100% of people prefer to win top.