Ryze is a counter to Ahri. She can't hit him with any harass from max range unless the Ryze is bad. If he's not, she has to get close enough for him to QRWQ her and she's half dead and locked down, then he walks away. And if she tries to all in with ult, she only gets one dash before the W lock down, and the spell vamp from Ryze's ult > hers.
Just got done showing a Shaco why I don't ban him. Just Mundo'ed him. By the end of the game he had about 50 CS, and while he had a few successful ganks, nothing meaningful, and I took every single red buff of his the entire game. They surrendered at about 35 minutes, but it was over way before then. I had almost 200 CS, more assists, and a full item build.
He also didn't take smite, which is the biggest sign of a bad jungler I've ever seen.
3:50 jungle clear is actually surprisingly decent but not amazing. Cloth armor also doesn't really build into anything good for Kennen, though I imagine his ganks would be nice. I'm assuming 3:50 clear means "I killed every camp once," right?
You could speed up (most) clears by going wolves first, then blue, then wraiths red golem (the cost of this is that your blue is slightly delayed on most junglers). I'm pretty sure Skarner and Udyr clear around the 3:10 to 3:20 mark, and a couple other junglers can clear really fast as well, but if Kennen can actually clear in a reasonable pace, his ganks are pretty sick...
Ryze is a counter to Ahri. She can't hit him with any harass from max range unless the Ryze is bad. If he's not, she has to get close enough for him to QRWQ her and she's half dead and locked down, then he walks away. And if she tries to all in with ult, she only gets one dash before the W lock down, and the spell vamp from Ryze's ult > hers.
He counters her period, given even skill.
I love these responses that come down to "no just dodge skillshots unless you are bad"
Ahri's is fairly easy to hit with and she either gets him with Orb straight up in creeps, or if Ryze is standing away from the creep line to try to force her to either push or harass him, she can land Charms instead.
There's no "lockdown" and walking away to tower unless Ryze was literally already at his tower, in which case Ahri probably wouldn't have gone all-in in the first place. Rune Prison lasts a little over a second at the levels we're talking and she has plenty of time for two more dashes. More to the point, since it's not a stun, Rune Prison doesn't stop her landing the point blank Charm if she went in to stop his combo and kill him before his second rotation comes up. (Compare a matchup that's not great for Ahri, like Brand or Annie who have legitimate stuns that can stop her shenanigans.) You're not comparing spellvamp on his ult vs her innate, you're comparing spell vamp on his ult vs 3 hits of her ult (Guess who wins that? hint: 15% vamp means 1700 damage to out heal what Ahri's Level 6 ult does as base, with 0AP).
And as stated, *at worst* she can shove on him and gank, since Ryze pretty much can't aggress on her in lane ever.
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RaakamToo many years...CanadalandRegistered Userregular
@Auralynx@Zombie Monkey - that was a fun game and a nice way to practice champs we hardly play/know. Everyone being chill and fun, a nice change from solo queue.
The penta was well deserved! We should do it again sometime.
My padherder they don't it be like it is but it do
Randuin's is fing amazing on Kennen. Not that you'd rush it, but once it's there team fights become shockingly one-sided.
And yeah - "killed every camp once"
Randuins isn't bad on Kennen, but it's certainly not core on him the same way most junglers start with core items; you essentially spend your starting 475 for very very little benefit besides the ability to jungle, whereas most junglers can start with things that either improve their ganks or build into a core item on the first or second trip back from the jungle.
@Auralynx@Zombie Monkey - that was a fun game and a nice way to practice champs we hardly play/know. Everyone being chill and fun, a nice change from solo queue.
The penta was well deserved! We should do it again sometime.
I think it helped we found a chinese team with 200 pings ;D their brands name was impressive
Randuin's is fing amazing on Kennen. Not that you'd rush it, but once it's there team fights become shockingly one-sided.
And yeah - "killed every camp once"
Randuins isn't bad on Kennen, but it's certainly not core on him the same way most junglers start with core items; you essentially spend your starting 475 for very very little benefit besides the ability to jungle, whereas most junglers can start with things that either improve their ganks or build into a core item on the first or second trip back from the jungle.
Lies.
Jungle Kennen for meta 2012!
;_;
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KogumaSpace Jam EnthusiastDunkmaciaRegistered Userregular
God, Xin Zhao jungle with 9/21 and a bruiser build of frozen mallet, wit's end, youmuu as core is just unreal. Great duelist, nice clear, great ganks even without ult, and just a beast anti carry in team fights. His sustain with just a few points in his W is stupid good. I don't even need to build wriggles. I just go boots/3, phage, avarice, brutallizer, giant's belt, wit's end, finish frozen mallet, finish youmuu, and by then my team is usually crushing.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I think it helped we found a chinese team with 200 pings ;D their brands name was impressive
Oh, it most assuredly did. The other day I was queuing with Summary, eeSang, Antem, and someone I've forgotten; We encountered a plat-Elo team slumming it in normal draft. That was a rough, rough game. In fairness to these Chinese dudes, they were giving us stiff resistance given their pings and that was a surprisingly close game for one nobody was playing super-well in. Very enjoyable.
Turns out that at least one of the Malzahar ult bugs has not, in fact, been fixed. Can't say I was happy when I pressed R and Malz decided that he wanted to give the enemy Orianna a hug.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
(Compare a matchup that's not great for Ahri, like Brand...
...What? Brand, the immobile guy who relies on skill shots for most of his damage and his stun, is a bad matchup for Ahri now?
It's a skill matchup, but IME Brand pushes just as hard and when Ahri moves in, he can stun and 1-shot her inside the stun with his combo.
If both Brand and Ahri are hitting skillshots then Ahri wins, if neither are hitting their skillshots, then Ahri wins.... I used to play a lot of Brand, and I would never pick him into Ahri because she would always dive and even with me hitting the stun, her ult would get her enough damage and mobility to kill me under my tower and get back out again.
MWO: Adamski
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
(Compare a matchup that's not great for Ahri, like Brand...
...What? Brand, the immobile guy who relies on skill shots for most of his damage and his stun, is a bad matchup for Ahri now?
It's a skill matchup, but IME Brand pushes just as hard and when Ahri moves in, he can stun and 1-shot her inside the stun with his combo.
If both Brand and Ahri are hitting skillshots then Ahri wins, if neither are hitting their skillshots, then Ahri wins.... I used to play a lot of Brand, and I would never pick him into Ahri because she would always dive and even with me hitting the stun, her ult would get her enough damage and mobility to kill me under my tower and get back out again.
That was not my experience as Ahri vs Brand, but I may just have been traumatized by the two separate times I was consistently murdered by one to have my opinion skewed.
Plenty o' times pursuing on him with jungle gank he turns that into a double with his ult or something equally stupid.
Turns out that at least one of the Malzahar ult bugs has not, in fact, been fixed. Can't say I was happy when I pressed R and Malz decided that he wanted to give the enemy Orianna a hug.
Hmmm hasnt happend to me. Been owning with Malz so far.
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KogumaSpace Jam EnthusiastDunkmaciaRegistered Userregular
By the way, Ahri Discussion:
Almost every matchup Ahri has, is a skill matchup. Her kit is dependent on the player playing her. There's always room for massive outplay because her kit is kinda....well.....based on that. Point and click champs tend to beat her pre-6, but you can just kinda push and roam and win the other lanes for your team. Most of her supposed counters (Ryze, Annie, Swain) don't really have the roam threat she does, except maybe Annie, who you'll rarely ever see anymore.
I do appreciate your feedback, I'm not new to these kinds of games in general, just this specific. I've been reading up and watching streams of top players. It took me a while to realize a lot of what they do, I cant without the level 30 and the masteries that came with it. As of now I'm just working on playing AP mid well, but I think jungling will interest me in the end. That play style lends itself to my way of thinking. I just love that, once you get into it, a lot of thinking does go into this game.
I think the server just gave me some free CDR/level quints...
Perhaps as prize for being the first person ever to use one on a rune page?
I had one from putzing with the rune combiner, long ago when I was young and foolish...
and I slopped it into a quint slot as a placeholder for a "real" CDR quint. Now I magically have three.
kSmashU : lag masters
kawaiixD : ur so mad now
kSmashU : n win
Awesome403: it was 5v3 for u guys
kawaiixD : y so mad
kawaiixD : sk8tur
kSmashU : get fuked skrubz
kawaiixD : Yo fizz
Awesome403: fizz u suck
kawaiixD : u got murked
kawaiixD : LOL
Awesome403: scrub
kawaiixD : so mad prob cryingz
This. This is why i hate this system. If they can just hold it in for the after game chat room, they cant get in trouble ever. It sickens me.
(Compare a matchup that's not great for Ahri, like Brand...
...What? Brand, the immobile guy who relies on skill shots for most of his damage and his stun, is a bad matchup for Ahri now?
It's a skill matchup, but IME Brand pushes just as hard and when Ahri moves in, he can stun and 1-shot her inside the stun with his combo.
If both Brand and Ahri are hitting skillshots then Ahri wins, if neither are hitting their skillshots, then Ahri wins.... I used to play a lot of Brand, and I would never pick him into Ahri because she would always dive and even with me hitting the stun, her ult would get her enough damage and mobility to kill me under my tower and get back out again.
That was not my experience as Ahri vs Brand, but I may just have been traumatized by the two separate times I was consistently murdered by one to have my opinion skewed.
Plenty o' times pursuing on him with jungle gank he turns that into a double with his ult or something equally stupid.
Brand ult in the jungle is very killer, or if there are no minions around in lane, but anytime there are jungle creeps / minions around, his Ult becomes fairly weak.
Posts
With leash that could conceivably get down into the fabled 3:40 range.
He counters her period, given even skill.
He also didn't take smite, which is the biggest sign of a bad jungler I've ever seen.
You could speed up (most) clears by going wolves first, then blue, then wraiths red golem (the cost of this is that your blue is slightly delayed on most junglers). I'm pretty sure Skarner and Udyr clear around the 3:10 to 3:20 mark, and a couple other junglers can clear really fast as well, but if Kennen can actually clear in a reasonable pace, his ganks are pretty sick...
And yeah - "killed every camp once" by 3:50.
Ahri's is fairly easy to hit with and she either gets him with Orb straight up in creeps, or if Ryze is standing away from the creep line to try to force her to either push or harass him, she can land Charms instead.
There's no "lockdown" and walking away to tower unless Ryze was literally already at his tower, in which case Ahri probably wouldn't have gone all-in in the first place. Rune Prison lasts a little over a second at the levels we're talking and she has plenty of time for two more dashes. More to the point, since it's not a stun, Rune Prison doesn't stop her landing the point blank Charm if she went in to stop his combo and kill him before his second rotation comes up. (Compare a matchup that's not great for Ahri, like Brand or Annie who have legitimate stuns that can stop her shenanigans.) You're not comparing spellvamp on his ult vs her innate, you're comparing spell vamp on his ult vs 3 hits of her ult (Guess who wins that? hint: 15% vamp means 1700 damage to out heal what Ahri's Level 6 ult does as base, with 0AP).
And as stated, *at worst* she can shove on him and gank, since Ryze pretty much can't aggress on her in lane ever.
The penta was well deserved! We should do it again sometime.
they don't it be like it is but it do
Randuins isn't bad on Kennen, but it's certainly not core on him the same way most junglers start with core items; you essentially spend your starting 475 for very very little benefit besides the ability to jungle, whereas most junglers can start with things that either improve their ganks or build into a core item on the first or second trip back from the jungle.
I think it helped we found a chinese team with 200 pings ;D their brands name was impressive
Lies.
Jungle Kennen for meta 2012!
check #1
:U
You can see me here playing stuff: http://www.twitchtv/mynameiskog
they don't it be like it is but it do
Oh, it most assuredly did. The other day I was queuing with Summary, eeSang, Antem, and someone I've forgotten; We encountered a plat-Elo team slumming it in normal draft. That was a rough, rough game. In fairness to these Chinese dudes, they were giving us stiff resistance given their pings and that was a surprisingly close game for one nobody was playing super-well in. Very enjoyable.
If both Brand and Ahri are hitting skillshots then Ahri wins, if neither are hitting their skillshots, then Ahri wins.... I used to play a lot of Brand, and I would never pick him into Ahri because she would always dive and even with me hitting the stun, her ult would get her enough damage and mobility to kill me under my tower and get back out again.
MWO: Adamski
Plenty o' times pursuing on him with jungle gank he turns that into a double with his ult or something equally stupid.
Finally going to lose as top hat Veigar I guess.
Hmmm hasnt happend to me. Been owning with Malz so far.
Almost every matchup Ahri has, is a skill matchup. Her kit is dependent on the player playing her. There's always room for massive outplay because her kit is kinda....well.....based on that. Point and click champs tend to beat her pre-6, but you can just kinda push and roam and win the other lanes for your team. Most of her supposed counters (Ryze, Annie, Swain) don't really have the roam threat she does, except maybe Annie, who you'll rarely ever see anymore.
You can see me here playing stuff: http://www.twitchtv/mynameiskog
Once you internalize that mindset, everything will go much smoother.
Your Blitzcrank can't land a teamfight grab when he needs to? Your fault.
Your Lee Sin kicks the person you were focusing away to safety? Your fault.
Stop losing?
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Perhaps as prize for being the first person ever to use one on a rune page?
I had one from putzing with the rune combiner, long ago when I was young and foolish...
and I slopped it into a quint slot as a placeholder for a "real" CDR quint. Now I magically have three.
To be fair, i have seen so many mids get cocky and lose games because they thought they could rambo and noot push objectives
Kinda feel bad for Cassie, seems pretty obvious he only unlocked her because the skin was on sale.
kawaiixD : ur so mad now
kSmashU : n win
Awesome403: it was 5v3 for u guys
kawaiixD : y so mad
kawaiixD : sk8tur
kSmashU : get fuked skrubz
kawaiixD : Yo fizz
Awesome403: fizz u suck
kawaiixD : u got murked
kawaiixD : LOL
Awesome403: scrub
kawaiixD : so mad prob cryingz
This. This is why i hate this system. If they can just hold it in for the after game chat room, they cant get in trouble ever. It sickens me.
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
MWO: Adamski