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I liked the [chat] better than the book

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Posts

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    alcoholic has a pretty broad definition, especially outside of a treatment clinic. lots of people have very destructive relationships with alcohol- relationships that are unhealthy and that need to be modified in drastic ways. if only the people who can't ever manage moderation are allowed to be called alcoholics, i welcome a more granular phrase for the other folks. 'alcohol abusers'? because alcoholics are that, also.

    someone who is a huge asshole when he gets drunk but hardly ever does it isn't an alcoholic, just someone who shouldn't drink

    you don't have to be unable to have just a few and always drink until you pass out to be an alcoholic

    can you rephrase the last sentence

    even if you're able to drink in moderation one night, instead of drinking until you pass out, you can still be an alcoholic.

    Lots of alcoholics are that way. They don't get shitfaced, but they drink very, very often.

    i'm not sure what your point is. or i mean, i see what you're saying but it seemed like you were trying to contradict me.

    the people who can't ever manage moderation aren't the only ones allowed to be called alcoholics

    is what I am saying

    ftOqU21.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    or maybe you meant moderation in another way.

    ftOqU21.png
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    random trivia:

    back in 2006 singapore had a general election. utterly coincidentally, I'm sure, the ruling regime announced fiscal stimulus that was basically a lot of cash handouts graded progressively by house size and income, electronically deposited into bank accounts

    when the day came and the cash got sent out, everyone found out that any and all accumulated traffic fines, library late fees, etc. had all been deducted beforehand

    I remember noting to a fellow student that the deduction might have been good civil policy, but it wasn't very good Keynesian stimulus

    and then he said

    that's when you stimulate his keynesian!

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    How about lush? You're a prohibition era alcoholic who also bathes regularly in overpriced soaps?

  • descdesc top one mate get sortedRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Things are happening on OKC that I did not expect.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    So, um, you want us to tell you to worry about it?

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    So, um, you want us to tell you to worry about it?

    you are a tremendous, gargantuan, almost mythically sized ass. like, asses no longer grow to your size ever since the great asses of the first rectum sailed west for assonia millennia ago. you're a holdover from times of asses past.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    Well

    what is your problem with alcohol?

    ftOqU21.png
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.
    This is the definition of alcohol abuse.

    You're still too young (for a lot of addiction councilors) to be labeled an alcoholic, chu.


    Seriously though, I've seen my share of friends who did some really dumb stuff (alcohol poisoning, ruined relationships with family and friends, money) where people said "oh it's normal for him to be doing that at his age" and I wanted to punch them in the face.



    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    So, um, you want us to tell you to worry about it?

    you are a tremendous, gargantuan, almost mythically sized ass. like, asses no longer grow to your size ever since the great asses of the first rectum sailed west for assonia millennia ago. you're a holdover from times of asses past.

    I apologize. I didn't mean it to come across that way.

    You said you didn't appreciate X. I wanted to know if that meant you wanted us to do Not-X.

  • LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I also think that 12-step, in particular, is keen on "once an addict, always an addict" attitudes because 12-step works by transference. You're not taught healthy coping skills; instead you're taught that if you're having a moment of weakness, call your sponsor or find a 12-step meeting. It's good to encourage people to seek support for issues, but 12-step doesn't have an endgame. They explicitly say - once you hit step 12, start over at step 1. They're encouraging a form of dependency on the 12-step system itself. The members who are deepest in the 12-step system then become emotionally invested in perpetuating the 12-step system, so they encourage helplessness in new members.

    So a certain amount of my disagreement with 'once an addict, always an addict' attitudes is actually my distaste for the 12-step model.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    random trivia:

    back in 2006 singapore had a general election. utterly coincidentally, I'm sure, the ruling regime announced fiscal stimulus that was basically a lot of cash handouts graded progressively by house size and income, electronically deposited into bank accounts

    when the day came and the cash got sent out, everyone found out that any and all accumulated traffic fines, library late fees, etc. had all been deducted beforehand

    I remember noting to a fellow student that the deduction might have been good civil policy, but it wasn't very good Keynesian stimulus

    and then he said

    that's when you stimulate his keynesian!

    This is a great story I can use to woo that Singapore girl.

    I don't know if she's still messaging me though, she found out that I am sort of vanilla.

  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    i don't think anyone has ever responded well to 'um' in written form

  • GreeperGreeper Registered User regular
    Hmm, well.

    My ex-girlfriend used to drink quite a bit. She enjoyed it and it was never a 'problem' so it didn't bother me.

    But she would drink a LOT, like, ten drinks a night some nights, and she'd tell me about it like she wanted me to be proud of her for being able to drink that much.

    It was weird.

    Greeper is now Minister Of Communication in my new regime.
    BeNarwhal wrote: »
    Syndalis, if you knew anything about Greeper, you would know Greeper is never not field dressing a stag.
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    So, um, you want us to tell you to worry about it?

    you are a tremendous, gargantuan, almost mythically sized ass. like, asses no longer grow to your size ever since the great asses of the first rectum sailed west for assonia millennia ago. you're a holdover from times of asses past.

    I apologize. I didn't mean it to come across that way.

    You said you didn't appreciate X. I wanted to know if that meant you wanted us to do Not-X.

    i am not necessarily looking for any sort of positive or critical feedback- i don't expect people on the internet to be life counselors. i'm not looking for Y; i'm looking for non-X. so what i'm saying is on multiple occasions on this very forum i have said something to that very effect (that i am uncomfortable with how i respond to alcohol, that it hurts my life, that the consequences terrify me) and people have been very marginalizing towards me. there are exceptions, of course, but a number of people have treated me like since i'm not a late-40s man with two failed marriages, i don't really know that alcohol is a problem for me.

    i have said something similar to this in the past and been told "*glugglug*", or something similar to that.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    For people who are addicted to alcohol there's "alcoholics"

    for people who have a problem with alcohol there's "people who have a problem with alcohol"

    discussing terms isn't really the important thing here is it

    ftOqU21.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    i mean, i have a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and right now i think it's unsafe and irresponsible for me to consume any- at all. i don't think most people would call me an alcoholic because there's very little compulsion for me to drink, and it's not a regular thing. but my life is less secure and healthy and vital than it could otherwise be (or was, when i consumed alcohol). it definitely damaged my well being and my personal relationships.

    i don't really appreciate peers telling me, don't worry about it, you're young, you're a college student, this is the arc of life! which a lot of people have said to me in the past couple years.

    So, um, you want us to tell you to worry about it?

    you are a tremendous, gargantuan, almost mythically sized ass. like, asses no longer grow to your size ever since the great asses of the first rectum sailed west for assonia millennia ago. you're a holdover from times of asses past.

    I apologize. I didn't mean it to come across that way.

    You said you didn't appreciate X. I wanted to know if that meant you wanted us to do Not-X.

    i am not necessarily looking for any sort of positive or critical feedback- i don't expect people on the internet to be life counselors. i'm not looking for Y; i'm looking for non-X. so what i'm saying is on multiple occasions on this very forum i have said something to that very effect (that i am uncomfortable with how i respond to alcohol, that it hurts my life, that the consequences terrify me) and people have been very marginalizing towards me. there are exceptions, of course, but a number of people have treated me like since i'm not a late-40s man with two failed marriages, i don't really know that alcohol is a problem for me.

    i have said something similar to this in the past and been told "*glugglug*", or something similar to that.

    Ooooooh. Ok.

    So, just not being flippant towards it.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I also think that 12-step, in particular, is keen on "once an addict, always an addict" attitudes because 12-step works by transference. You're not taught healthy coping skills; instead you're taught that if you're having a moment of weakness, call your sponsor or find a 12-step meeting. It's good to encourage people to seek support for issues, but 12-step doesn't have an endgame. They explicitly say - once you hit step 12, start over at step 1. They're encouraging a form of dependency on the 12-step system itself. The members who are deepest in the 12-step system then become emotionally invested in perpetuating the 12-step system, so they encourage helplessness in new members.

    So a certain amount of my disagreement with 'once an addict, always an addict' attitudes is actually my distaste for the 12-step model.

    are you an alcoholic that learned moderation or do you personally know any alcoholics who did

    if yes I will stay my hand.

    ftOqU21.png
  • LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
    Well I mean, to be fair, if you say something online you are by default inviting positive and negative feedback.

    Not saying someone has a right to be an asshole to you without consequence, however.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    alcoholism doesn't have an end-game

    it's not something you get rid of

    ftOqU21.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

    well, i am not sure that me coming off in a way that you can't even describe because it's not exactly bad but maybe almost kind of nebulously offputting justifies people trivializing my problems with this substance.

  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Progress cash? Pay taxes first

    Lin Yanqin
    yanqinl@newstoday.com.sg

    ALTHOUGH some 2.3 million Singaporeans qualify to receive Progress Package payouts, about 22,000 will receive less than they qualified for, or even nothing at all.

    This group will have the taxes they owe the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (Iras) deducted from their payouts.

    Iras will collect taxes owed to them from the payouts only "as a last resort, when all previous attempts to get the taxpayer to pay his taxes have failed", said Mrs Lee Leng Kiong, corporate communications director of Iras.

    She added: "About 22,000 taxpayers have been issued notices informing them of the recovery of tax arrears from the Progress Package. These are taxpayers who have failed to make arrangements to pay their outstanding taxes despite repeated attempts by Iras.

    "It is only fair that they should pay their taxes like other taxpaying citizens before receiving the payout. For these taxpayers, Iras will deduct the full amount of the outstanding taxes from the Progress Package."

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    are you an alcoholic that learned moderation or do you personally know any alcoholics who did

    No to the first part, yes to the second part.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Greeper wrote: »
    Hmm, well.

    My ex-girlfriend used to drink quite a bit. She enjoyed it and it was never a 'problem' so it didn't bother me.

    But she would drink a LOT, like, ten drinks a night some nights, and she'd tell me about it like she wanted me to be proud of her for being able to drink that much.

    It was weird.

    I am going to need info on her body mass and ethnicity to determine how impressed I should be.

    ftOqU21.png
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »

    It was quite a risk clicking that spoiler tag at work but I'm glad I did it.

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    I also think that 12-step, in particular, is keen on "once an addict, always an addict" attitudes because 12-step works by transference. You're not taught healthy coping skills; instead you're taught that if you're having a moment of weakness, call your sponsor or find a 12-step meeting. It's good to encourage people to seek support for issues, but 12-step doesn't have an endgame. They explicitly say - once you hit step 12, start over at step 1. They're encouraging a form of dependency on the 12-step system itself. The members who are deepest in the 12-step system then become emotionally invested in perpetuating the 12-step system, so they encourage helplessness in new members.

    So a certain amount of my disagreement with 'once an addict, always an addict' attitudes is actually my distaste for the 12-step model.

    the whole "go to meetings until the end of time or you're fucked" model is pretty lame

  • LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

    well, i am not sure that me coming off in a way that you can't even describe because it's not exactly bad but maybe almost kind of nebulously offputting justifies people trivializing my problems with this substance.

    Come on chu, people don't need a reason much less a good one to trivialize anything. I am just trying to give you some insight. Not judging the validity or necessity of comments.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

    well, i am not sure that me coming off in a way that you can't even describe because it's not exactly bad but maybe almost kind of nebulously offputting justifies people trivializing my problems with this substance.

    At the risk of digging the hole deeper...

    You don't want us to be life counselors.
    You don't want us to trivialize it.

    But you posted about it.

    So, I guess the question is how you want us to respond. You seem to have categorically dismissed any sort of reply.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    are you an alcoholic that learned moderation or do you personally know any alcoholics who did

    No to the first part, yes to the second part.

    Well, I would argue that going "well I'm ok now! I can drink now!" can be really dangerous because well, the urge to do that way too soon is pretty fucking strong.

    But I actually wouldn't because I don't want to at all.

    ftOqU21.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    so anyway

    canadian club

    it was p cool

    like the candy of whisky

    ftOqU21.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    ronya wrote: »

    It was quite a risk clicking that spoiler tag at work but I'm glad I did it.

    Even on the PA forums, there was about a 73% chance of goatse in that spoiler.

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

    well, i am not sure that me coming off in a way that you can't even describe because it's not exactly bad but maybe almost kind of nebulously offputting justifies people trivializing my problems with this substance.

    Come on chu, people don't need a reason much less a good one to trivialize anything. I am just trying to give you some insight. Not judging the validity or necessity of comments.

    well, i'm not sure if the insight was meant to be constructive? i don't think there's much i can do with 'you're not exactly judgmental or stuck up or uptight or anything but you're sort of an interesting mix of all them in an unattractive way'

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    the 12-step model is pretty fucking whack for way more reasons than that

    ftOqU21.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I may never understand how drafts work on the forum.

    I write a post.
    I click post.
    My post is posted.
    But a copy of the post is still saved as a draft.

  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »

    It was quite a risk clicking that spoiler tag at work but I'm glad I did it.

    Even on the PA forums, there was about a 73% chance of goatse in that spoiler.

    I think might-be-goatse references might outnumber goatse shock postings on the Internet by this point!

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    Chu I probably have about 4 drinks a year. That being said, at least from a forum perspective, I think it's that you simply come off as

    god how do I even put it, up tight, weirdly judgmental, stuck up, none of those things at all actually but some weird offputting in between of those sentiments about anything you've decided is not "for you". It's ethereal and I don't even know what to call it, but maybe that's why people tell you to lighten up.

    well, i am not sure that me coming off in a way that you can't even describe because it's not exactly bad but maybe almost kind of nebulously offputting justifies people trivializing my problems with this substance.

    At the risk of digging the hole deeper...

    You don't want us to be life counselors.
    You don't want us to trivialize it.

    But you posted about it.

    So, I guess the question is how you want us to respond. You seem to have categorically dismissed any sort of reply.

    what part of that is unclear? i'm not expecting a random group of people to be life coaches, no- i think it'd be unfair to expect a consistently high minded, informed, thoughtful stream of advice and ideas. but there's an obvious gulf of ground between 'i know people here aren't trained clinicians' and 'it bothers me when they make light of my very serious problems'.

  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    _J_ wrote: »
    I may never understand how drafts work on the forum.

    I write a post.
    I click post.
    My post is posted.
    But a copy of the post is still saved as a draft.

    the silent process to start the save-draft already started, then you started the post process, then the autosave notice popped up, then the post went through

    at least that's how i think they've implemented it

    the asynchronous model might need some tweaking

    ronya on
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This discussion has been closed.