As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

Another [Final Fantasy] Thread is done before FF XIII Versus

11415171920100

Posts

  • TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    In terms of serious discussion, I've come around to "get" why Marche is not actually being villain. I still think the game did a poor job of showing the evil he was fighting against.

    That said, it's funnier to think of him as a monster that re-broke his brother's legs. :twisted:

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    But he was the cool new kid who was going to take over the school and have all the hot girls looking at his pizza cutter sword.
    And he probably succeeded and influenced St. Ivalice's fashion sense for a generation, if Luso's... "outfit" is anything to go on.

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    War of Lions isn't a remake, and I appreciated the new script immensely.

    I would highly recommend it. Some claim Tactics Ogre is a better game, but honestly the characterization and plotting is somewhat lacking in comparison. Both games also have easily breakable characters/jobs, so I don't usually consider that a contentious point either. I find TO interesting in the sense that it was FFT's progenitor, but I wouldn't really say it's a better game. Though I wouldn't say it worse either, they're both great.

    The psp version is known to have slowdown issues, but I believe a patch has been released for it, I'm not sure if it's official though. The ios version is fine however.

    Lucid on
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    I love that debate.

    It started as a collective joke by fans of the Advance game. Fans like me. If you actually play the game and pay attention to its story you'll realize that no, he's not doing it just to fuck with his sickly brother or the girl with no friends and awesome white hair or the kid with really no friends, a dead mom and a drunkard of a father.

    It's also completely lost on them that you can go back whenever you want after Marche's villainous plan succeeds where before you were stuck in this crazy world which was being completely oppressed by the strange laws that Mewt and his imaginary friends were coming up with! Imprisoning people for cheating on a bunch of unfair rules!

    couple things wrong here.

    Marche had no idea what would happen. Accidental positives due to writer deus ex is a pretty lame excuse.

    Second, the world pretty much soley exists because of Mewt. The grimoire is pretty much just the best piece of vr gear around. unless I missed something, I don't recall anyone else but the main group remembering anything or even having a tangible scene to hint that anyone else in the real world is actually effected.

    steam_sig.png
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    I did actually know all that, I just framed it that way to make my argument stronger. Mewt is legit crazy though and needed to be stopped.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    I like to think the laws getting stricter as the game went on was to show you how much of a tyrannical madman he was becoming.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Well, the cutscene where you see St. Ivalice basically turning into "Ivalice" kind of implies that stuff is happening to other people. And then there's the zombies named after the snowball fight bullies. "You dare defy Mewt? Have fun as rotting monsters!", it seems to say.

    And if there was any doubt as to the exact function of the grimoire, Tactics A2 finally put that to rest. It's not VR. It warps reality.

    But yes, between Famfrit and Ultima (after he knew about the crystals, and before he knew the nature of the world), Marche was being reckless.
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I like to think the laws getting stricter as the game went on was to show you how much of a tyrannical madman he was becoming.

    "Like to think"? He legit goes "Mommy, can we make the laws stronger?" after the Famfrit fight, because he has a bad dream.

    Enlong on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Well, it has been some years since I've played so I don't remember everything that happened.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Well, I just looked up a script, so I'm cheating a little bit in the remembering stuff department.

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    I sure should play A2 some day. I just really didn't like the recruiting system.

    steam_sig.png
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    A2 is the second best tactics game ever, behind Tactics Ogre:LUCT.

    It has a dumb as dirt story though, but that's okay because it barely takes note of it. I like its version of the bazaar a lot more than XII's and some of the new classes are amazing. Also the generic character art in the game is really well done. Someone gave me the guide a few years back and its full of the various class art.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    It can be a bit tricky if you don't know how it works.

    Wait, how did recruiting go in Tactics Advance, again? Was it just a random chance of guys showing up when you finish a mission?

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    also: perception. it looks to change. Why do only a few remember it? because it only effected them. A2 didn't clear anything up, really. it has like 3 different gran grimoires, as that's just a generic title for a high level magic book. like Luso's rift grimoire.

    steam_sig.png
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Why do only a few remember it? Because they were the ones who invoked the book. It fulfilled their desires, and screw everyone else. They get to be the things that help those four live out their desires. The book decides whether they would better do that as moogles or as monsters.

    And yes, A2 did clear it up. The Gran Grimoire and the Grimoire of the Rift are different books, and are spoken of separately in Lezaford's notes. "Gran Grimore" is not the term for a high power magic tome, "Grimoire" alone is. The "Gran Grimoire" is a singular book, the most powerful Grimoire in existence. The Grimoire of the Rift connects to a rift in time and space (the Rift, perhaps?) and is how Luso was transported into the real Ivalice. The Gran Grimoire is the book that Marche and Co. looked through, and warped reality to create the false Ivalice. Ilua's Grimoire is never named, and might as well be named the Grimoire of the MacGuffin, for how important ita ctually turns out to be.

    To quote Lezaford:
    Luso - Actually, I came to ask about a grimoire called "The Ultimate Book of
    Magick"... I've heard it might not even exist... that it might be a legend...

    Lezaford - Ah yes... the Gran Grimoire. Not many know of its existence, and few
    if any of those who do have actually set eyes upon it. I myself have never seen
    it - and I have seen a great many things!

    I would quote the paper he writes, but I don't have the game on me at the moment. I've told you what I recall about it, and if that turns out to be wrong, I will concede the point.

    Enlong on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    I'm currently slowly plodding through FFTA2 and I'm still quite enjoying it, though I'm skittish about actually using the bazaar lest I do something out of a better order and screw myself out of stuff.

    I also want to mess with Blue Mages, but apparently you need Beastmasters with a bunch of skills? I've never cared much for the way FFTA handles skill learning (it's fine in FFIX though), and having FFTA2 jobs locked behind subquests kind of chafes.

    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    It's far easier to get Blue Magic with Beastmasters, yes.

    Thankfully, Beastmasters always succeed with their skills in this game.

    Unfortunately, their skill sucks now (it only controls the monster for one action, on the same turn you take command, and you can't make them walk), and Morphers no longer exist. They're really only good as a gateway to other classes, and to power up Blue Mages.

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    except ill.. whatever, calls the book luso has a gran grimoire and tries to take it. but his book acts absolutely nothing like Mewts.

    steam_sig.png
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Enlong wrote: »

    because I like digging: The producer of the game specifically said the ffta ivalice is artificial.

    A2 its the real ivalice.

    Now: these were all games in the ivalice alliance. this means they all happen in the same world.

    Now this poses a problem. A2, 12 and fft all happen in the same world.

    ffta can be said to maybe exist way in the future?

    There is a point to this.

    Vagrant story is also full legit in Ivalice.

    The Gran Grimoire exists in Vagrant story. in fact, its central to the entire game, built into an entire city and can only be used by a single person.

    so either there is more then one gran grimoire or Marche has the most badass tattoo on the world and doesn't tell anyone.

    Edit: I mean Mewt has a badass tattoo

    chocobolicious on
    steam_sig.png
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I'll just go with the more likely excuse that the writers don't even give a fuck.

    It'd be like trying to assume that all of the "Compilation of FF7" stuff was planned beforehand and fits into FF7's narrative perfectly.

    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    To be fair most of the FF7 stuff does fit. The original had so many holes you could drive a bus through it. Filling them in didn't really retcon much except making Zack die like a boss instead of getting sniped like a punk.

    steam_sig.png
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Eeeehhhh, I find Vaan to be quite inoffensive. The party sort of builds around him

    My biggest issue with Vaan is that he's a shitty way to start things off. Probably the worst introductory character + sequence combo in a FF game, actually. VIII was close with Squall and the school stuff.

    The best FFs all start off strong. IV starts with attempted genocide. V starts off with a meteor impact. VI with an amnesiac girl riding a mech and killing things. VII with a terrorist attack. X with a guy fighting off monsters in his home city, getting sucked into something, waking up in an alien world, and being forced to do work for people who speak an odd language.

    XII starts off with a teen killing rats in a sewer and doing errands. And Vaan himself is as interesting as vanilla ice cream.

    XII starts off with betrayal, regicide, and then your viewpoint character dying.

    I mean, that's not to say that it doesn't slow down when you switch to Vaan, but it at least tries to start you off with a taste of excitement. Saying it just starts with sewer rats is skewing things just a smidge.

    To be fair, you're right. Unfortunately, for me, the tutorial level didn't have much weight because at that point in the story I didn't know the people or the setting well enough to care. The most interesting part to come out of it is the betrayal, and that is hand waved away fairly early on (to the detriment of the game).

    But, really, it all highlights what I've been trying (and failing) to explain from my POV: XII could have been so much more. Even with Vaan being shoehorned into it, they could have really made him an integral part of the story. While he's unintentionally the one to bring the party together, they don't do anything with him of note. His one conflict is resolved almost immediately. From there, he's merely along for the ride. It's just an odd way to start a game. It'd be like Edge being introduced first in IV, or RedXIII in VII.

    For the game itself, my wishlist of changes:
    All gambits available from the beginning.
    Fully revealed license boards.
    A better Vaan (see my ideas a couple pages back).
    Penelo as a NPC.
    No Gabranth. Let Basch be the one who murdered the king.

    The big one: have the party actually be involved in some of the larger events. After the capture at Raithwall's Tomb, the game relies on "Your princess is in another castle" far too often. It's actually kind of amazing how little the party fights against the Empire. VI and VII got the balance of fighting against evil organization vs. fighting against dungeon mobs perfect, IMO. This would help make the judges interesting, too, as we're generally introduced to them right before we kill them, which makes them merely boss fights rather than conflicts against people. They need to be recurring foes, like the Turks.

    The one thing I do like about XII is the setting. I've always liked Ivalice. Even though I like the FFT and Vagrant Story eras more, the XII era is pretty cool.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
    Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    ^^ I was thinking of picking up War Of The Lions someday (as the only WORKING psanything that I have is a PSP). Would you reccomend it?

    yes, it is very good. Gooooo!

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Eeeehhhh, I find Vaan to be quite inoffensive. The party sort of builds around him

    My biggest issue with Vaan is that he's a shitty way to start things off. Probably the worst introductory character + sequence combo in a FF game, actually. VIII was close with Squall and the school stuff.

    The best FFs all start off strong. IV starts with attempted genocide. V starts off with a meteor impact. VI with an amnesiac girl riding a mech and killing things. VII with a terrorist attack. X with a guy fighting off monsters in his home city, getting sucked into something, waking up in an alien world, and being forced to do work for people who speak an odd language.

    XII starts off with a teen killing rats in a sewer and doing errands. And Vaan himself is as interesting as vanilla ice cream.

    XII starts off with betrayal, regicide, and then your viewpoint character dying.

    I mean, that's not to say that it doesn't slow down when you switch to Vaan, but it at least tries to start you off with a taste of excitement. Saying it just starts with sewer rats is skewing things just a smidge.

    To be fair, you're right. Unfortunately, for me, the tutorial level didn't have much weight because at that point in the story I didn't know the people or the setting well enough to care. The most interesting part to come out of it is the betrayal, and that is hand waved away fairly early on (to the detriment of the game).

    But, really, it all highlights what I've been trying (and failing) to explain from my POV: XII could have been so much more. Even with Vaan being shoehorned into it, they could have really made him an integral part of the story. While he's unintentionally the one to bring the party together, they don't do anything with him of note. His one conflict is resolved almost immediately. From there, he's merely along for the ride. It's just an odd way to start a game. It'd be like Edge being introduced first in IV, or RedXIII in VII.

    For the game itself, my wishlist of changes:
    All gambits available from the beginning.
    Fully revealed license boards.
    A better Vaan (see my ideas a couple pages back).
    Penelo as a NPC.
    No Gabranth. Let Basch be the one who murdered the king.

    heh... about the first two things? Guess what Japan got that we didn't?

    The "International" Zodiac Job System version had, among other improvements (controllable Espers, a button to doulbe the game's running speed in battle), exactly those two things.

    Gambits are available for purchase, in full, as soon as you complete Barheim Passage (the dungeons after the party gets imprisoned).

    And the License board has been replaced with 12 license boards. Each one representing a zodiac sign, and each one pertaining to a different job class. So if you want to make Vaan a White Mage, you can go ahead and put him on that path immediately. It goes without saying that each of those license boards is smaller and easier to navigate than the original one. Also, every license can be viewed without activating adjacent ones.

    And some other interesting changes: Tier one spells like Fire have an area of effect now, there is no longer a damage cap, Quickenings have their own meter instead of taking from your MP, there's two extra modes; one in which you start the game at level 99, and one in which you can never level up...

    And so, of course, this "International" version is only available in Japan. (to be fair, the director did not want the word "international" in the title) Which is an annoyance on the level of Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, because all the voices are the English version. All they would need to do is translate the new text. I don't like to think about it all that much, because it's REALLY depressing to think about what could have been, if it weren't for Sony's dumb policy on re-releases.

  • Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Hopefully all that stuff will be in the inevitable HD rerelease, however far away it is.

    XBL: Stealth Crane PSN: ajpet12 3DS: 1160-9999-5810 NNID: StealthCrane Pokemon Scarlet Name: Carmen
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Enlong wrote: »
    It's far easier to get Blue Magic with Beastmasters, yes.

    Thankfully, Beastmasters always succeed with their skills in this game.

    Unfortunately, their skill sucks now (it only controls the monster for one action, on the same turn you take command, and you can't make them walk), and Morphers no longer exist. They're really only good as a gateway to other classes, and to power up Blue Mages.

    ...and Brightmoon Tor; getting the lvl90 malboros on the last level of the first tower to murder everything else for me was one of the greatest moments so far of the hard mord playthrough I'm doing right now. Just need a Blue Mage with Roar so the AI continues it's OCD need to have everyone buffed with every buff they can (and to keep that godforsaken Light Curtain the bunny uses off) and they'll all stay nice and close to each other :twisted:

    Foefaller on
    steam_sig.png
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I'll just go with the more likely excuse that the writers don't even give a fuck.

    It'd be like trying to assume that all of the "Compilation of FF7" stuff was planned beforehand and fits into FF7's narrative perfectly.

    Fossilized airships! Virus cloned command corps! Internet!

    Zack dies either way. Big whoop.

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Eeeehhhh, I find Vaan to be quite inoffensive. The party sort of builds around him

    My biggest issue with Vaan is that he's a shitty way to start things off. Probably the worst introductory character + sequence combo in a FF game, actually. VIII was close with Squall and the school stuff.

    The best FFs all start off strong. IV starts with attempted genocide. V starts off with a meteor impact. VI with an amnesiac girl riding a mech and killing things. VII with a terrorist attack. X with a guy fighting off monsters in his home city, getting sucked into something, waking up in an alien world, and being forced to do work for people who speak an odd language.

    XII starts off with a teen killing rats in a sewer and doing errands. And Vaan himself is as interesting as vanilla ice cream.

    XII starts off with betrayal, regicide, and then your viewpoint character dying.

    I mean, that's not to say that it doesn't slow down when you switch to Vaan, but it at least tries to start you off with a taste of excitement. Saying it just starts with sewer rats is skewing things just a smidge.

    To be fair, you're right. Unfortunately, for me, the tutorial level didn't have much weight because at that point in the story I didn't know the people or the setting well enough to care. The most interesting part to come out of it is the betrayal, and that is hand waved away fairly early on (to the detriment of the game).

    But, really, it all highlights what I've been trying (and failing) to explain from my POV: XII could have been so much more. Even with Vaan being shoehorned into it, they could have really made him an integral part of the story. While he's unintentionally the one to bring the party together, they don't do anything with him of note. His one conflict is resolved almost immediately. From there, he's merely along for the ride. It's just an odd way to start a game. It'd be like Edge being introduced first in IV, or RedXIII in VII.

    For the game itself, my wishlist of changes:
    All gambits available from the beginning.
    Fully revealed license boards.
    A better Vaan (see my ideas a couple pages back).
    Penelo as a NPC.
    No Gabranth. Let Basch be the one who murdered the king.

    heh... about the first two things? Guess what Japan got that we didn't?

    The "International" Zodiac Job System version had, among other improvements (controllable Espers, a button to doulbe the game's running speed in battle), exactly those two things.

    Gambits are available for purchase, in full, as soon as you complete Barheim Passage (the dungeons after the party gets imprisoned).

    And the License board has been replaced with 12 license boards. Each one representing a zodiac sign, and each one pertaining to a different job class. So if you want to make Vaan a White Mage, you can go ahead and put him on that path immediately. It goes without saying that each of those license boards is smaller and easier to navigate than the original one. Also, every license can be viewed without activating adjacent ones.

    And some other interesting changes: Tier one spells like Fire have an area of effect now, there is no longer a damage cap, Quickenings have their own meter instead of taking from your MP, there's two extra modes; one in which you start the game at level 99, and one in which you can never level up...

    And so, of course, this "International" version is only available in Japan. (to be fair, the director did not want the word "international" in the title) Which is an annoyance on the level of Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, because all the voices are the English version. All they would need to do is translate the new text. I don't like to think about it all that much, because it's REALLY depressing to think about what could have been, if it weren't for Sony's dumb policy on re-releases.

    Gasp you forgot the Gauntlet mode thing. Which was kind of silly, but a fun way to just fight a bunch of stuff in a row.

    steam_sig.png
  • WoofieWoofie Registered User new member
    Am I the only person to have played chocobo's dungeon for PS1? I'm not sure if I should feel smug for being unique or ashamed for using a gameshark to beat it.

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Stumbled across this while on the Yoo Tubes today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkZxp_Xek9I&t=6m23s

    Start at 5:23 if it doesn't start there automatically. It's a pretty good version of Memoro de la ^stono but it's a shame it's buried in the opening cutscene of one of the minor expansions.

    DisruptedCapitalist on
  • shdwcastershdwcaster South DakotaRegistered User regular
    Fuck you Crisis Core, for having a final side mission with a boss that does nothing but 1-hit kills, and has 10 million health.

    Also, damn you completionist streak for needing to see that %100 and keeping going anyway.

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    shdwcaster wrote: »
    Fuck you Crisis Core, for having a final side mission with a boss that does nothing but 1-hit kills, and has 10 million health.

    Also, damn you completionist streak for needing to see that %100 and keeping going anyway.

    What is the final side mission boss? I never got to him.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Her. And nothing's a 1HKO if you block or dodge or have the defensive stats.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    shdwcaster wrote: »
    Fuck you Crisis Core, for having a final side mission with a boss that does nothing but 1-hit kills, and has 10 million health.

    Also, damn you completionist streak for needing to see that %100 and keeping going anyway.

    I recall being able to survive attacks. You did have 255 Vitality and Spirit, right?

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Who here has played Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon? Kind of a silly game, but the gameplay is legitimately hard , the class system is fun, and it's got some all-star music from, like, everything before XII.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    shdwcaster wrote: »
    Fuck you Crisis Core, for having a final side mission with a boss that does nothing but 1-hit kills, and has 10 million health.

    Also, damn you completionist streak for needing to see that %100 and keeping going anyway.

    Been years since I played, but IIRC you can steal stuff from her before she kills you and you keep it, and doing it enough times can let you customize uber-materia so you can actually take her on.

  • shdwcastershdwcaster South DakotaRegistered User regular
    A long-ish perusal of gameFAQs showed me that I was doing most of the sub-optimal things listed above. Argh. Time to adjust my build this evening and have a few more goes. I think the part that irritates me the most though, is that the intro cutscene to the mission is unskippable.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    I forgot how amazing the mini opera solo part of the FF VI PSX ending FMV is. I wonder if they've ever released it without the annoying sound effects in the background.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqPjWsrHnSs&feature=related

    This video is the reason to own the PSX version in my eyes.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
Sign In or Register to comment.