So apparently we aren't going to be getting more SOTG until late August.
What a complete and utter disappointment.
One of the biggest problems is that JP will cancel the show on the slightest whim. What the community really needs is a host who gives a fuck about the show, and will go out of their way to make sure the show has guests/discussion topics each week. I've never even sniffed JP going out of his way to do anything.
this is so not the feeling I got from the post he made
what feeling did you get exactly?
It's pretty hard to be optimistic or hopeful for the show when there won't have been an episode in two months.
Sceptre on
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
That is super fricken cool, we'll make it some day
It's been interesting hearing my coworkers talk about the badminton thing, mirrors some of our discussions about match throwing perfectly.
i would expect my sotg host to give at least 2, if not 3 limbs to fund the show, and then kickstarter the remaining one for a groundbreaking documentary: state of the game - a day in the life of illumanati grand master sean 'day9' plott
So apparently we aren't going to be getting more SOTG until late August.
What a complete and utter disappointment.
One of the biggest problems is that JP will cancel the show on the slightest whim. What the community really needs is a host who gives a fuck about the show, and will go out of their way to make sure the show has guests/discussion topics each week. I've never even sniffed JP going out of his way to do anything.
this is so not the feeling I got from the post he made
what feeling did you get exactly?
It's pretty hard to be optimistic or hopeful for the show when there won't have been an episode in two months.
everyone has been super busy and the show will be back at the end of this month
How many times can you hear that? JP shows absolutely zero-motivation towards assembling and producing the show. I get the feeling he doesn't even like doing it. One night, I was incredibly bored and tuned into his stream on a thursday to see if he would mention SOTG. Someone mentioned SOTG and he looked up surprised, laughed and was like "Oh! I guess it is thursday! haha, guess there won't be a SOTG tonight". Not only had he been playing DOTA 2 for the past 4 hours, but plenty of great players were online streaming, including Geoff and Greg. JP is lazy as fuck and he keeps telling us he's busy when really he is just playing DOTA.
I know I bring it up and rag on it a lot, but I really love SOTG. It used to be a highlight of my week, and I frequently listen to old episodes while I'm travelling about.
It's such a fucking travesty that JP is in any way associated with it.
I was reading the story about how a few badminton teams were disqualified from the Olympics for intentionally losing games in order to be seeded against an easier team in the finals. I was wondering what you all thought about that. I know it's not specifically about starcraft, but it relates as a question about tournament competition.
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
It's Completely unacceptable but as an outsider, I'm inclined to put the blame on a system that rewards losses
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
nony just played a few pvz on stream, now he's answering questions while eating and breathing loudly
OK so someone told me recently that Naniwa has aspergers.
Might explain his usual calm / expressionless demeanor.
'is ok
I believe there was a ton of speculation about this after the drama that happened between him and GOM over that game with Nestea, but it's never been even remotely confirmed as far as I know. Of course, it's not really something that is likely to ever be confirmed by a source that would actually know.
It's Completely unacceptable but as an outsider, I'm inclined to put the blame on a system that rewards losses
If you're in a tournament, and you realize that "hey, if I win this next game in my group stage, I get put in to the group that has players rate #1-3 in it, but if I lose, I still make the next round but i'm grouped with #14, 15 and 16", well, you're PTW'ing and strategically throwing the game is the best course of action in order to optimize your chances of winning.
The problem is the tourny format, not that people are taking advantage of it. If you can move on into a better position by losing than by winning, that's what you do.
welcome to the world of extremely cut throat competition.
OK so someone told me recently that Naniwa has aspergers.
Might explain his usual calm / expressionless demeanor.
'is ok
Asperger's is characterized by an inability to pick up on social/emotional cues and respond appropriately. I went to high school with a couple people who had it (one of them very severely) and know a couple more here at grad school. They're not really calm or expressionless (usually super lively/loud people, actually), they just don't respond to emotion/social stuff in any kind of normal way.
That's how I feel, Joe. Ever since I read that "Playing to Win" article about cheese, I really have had a different view of sports. I think it's kind of dumb to punish teams for playing the system, not just the team. I mean, what's next? Are they going to start banning Olympic baseball pitchers for intentionally walking players?
+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
if you know the system and throwing the game helps you, I don't think it should be punished.
however doing something like the coca/byun losing to help a friend... I think that's an issue and it's a very fine line there.
as much as I don't think it should be punished I also don't really feel bad about it being a rule.
vari - yeh, that's a fine line... although, when you have teams involved in individual sports, you'll have this. wrestling tournaments will have one guy take a dive so their big guy has an easier path, nascar teams will have drivers shield and let their star driver draft.
where i draw the line is throwing games for monetary gain. Fixing matches for gambling. Black-socks style (or pick whatever boxing match you thought was fixed here). Fixing matches to keep gamblers in money is well over the line and the punishment should be harsh, Pete Rose style.
But playing a certain way, even if it's throwing a match, if it improves you're overall odds, yeh, you do that, it's legit. If a tourny setup can be gamed, it's the fault of the tourny rules, not the competitor taking advantage of every thing they can to gain an edge.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
definitely agree with the gambling aspect, no doubt there.
I just fear something like a ret throwing a series to taeja because taeja is more likely to take the grand championship you know? technically speaking I don't know if ret should necessarily be banned for such behavior, I just don't like it.
losing a game yourself to better your placement seems different to me even if it can mess with the outcome of the tourney, altering other seeds and stuff.
Nony just did something pretty interesting. He did his usual 2 gate expand PvZ, but when he sent his small zealot/sentry force out to pressure he left half of his sentries at home. That way they could defend against run bys, and he still had 6-7 forcefields to use with his main army, enough that he could manipulate the fights in his advantage but not enough that if he lost all of them the game would be over.
Nony just did something pretty interesting. He did his usual 2 gate expand PvZ, but when he sent his small zealot/sentry force out to pressure he left half of his sentries at home. That way they could defend against run bys, and he still had 6-7 forcefields to use with his main army, enough that he could manipulate the fights in his advantage but not enough that if he lost all of them the game would be over.
Or he could, ya'know, just forge fast expand which is better and safer in every way.
@variable - i know what you mean by not liking it, but unfortunately when you hae teams competing in individual sports, some amount of team strategizing, such as throwing a game to make sure your strongest player has a better chance to bring the team home the purse, that's going to happen (and does, from middle school wrestling to nascar). It's slightly greyer than an individual throwing a game to change seeds, but I don't put it over the ethical line.
Gamblers fixing games is completely over the line, and I think that everyone agrees on that. :-)
Nony just did something pretty interesting. He did his usual 2 gate expand PvZ, but when he sent his small zealot/sentry force out to pressure he left half of his sentries at home. That way they could defend against run bys, and he still had 6-7 forcefields to use with his main army, enough that he could manipulate the fights in his advantage but not enough that if he lost all of them the game would be over.
Or he could, ya'know, just forge fast expand which is better and safer in every way.
I think there is still a place in the game for gateway expands. The maps are just very tailored towards FFE'ing.
Gateway expands are working lately because it throws off all the timings the zerg is used to preparing for against the FFE, right?
Also, while the FFE is certainly safer, is it truly better? Gateway expands can do more things earlier than a FFE can. I'm not a protoss or zerg player but that logic seems sound to me.
I just went to liquipedia to look up Protoss build orders. I stopped when I realized that playing Protoss isn't the answer for improving my Terran game......or is it?!
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
it's not
also I'd be surprised if those are up to date. if they are that's great.
Gateway expands are going to bring back speedling expand openings and we're going to LAWL when your scout sees a gas and your forge is nowhere near started.
Speedling expand openings are not a problem with a 2 gate expand and proper sim city.
1 gate expo is possible, but your sim city and micro have to be perfect.
Sceptre on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
if you can do decent enough harassment quickly enough I don't see why it's not viable. make up for slower expand with more economic damage done to zerg right?
I guess there's a reason ffe took over 100% but I'm not aware of it as I don't play the matchup. I'm guessing zergs are too good at dealing with said pressure (except for right now because they don't expect it ever)
but that doesn't mean some proper form of that harassment can't be unlocked.
I don't see gateway expand effectively holding off speedling expand ling harass. 6 lings will make your life a living hell if you have no cannon up, and you won't be anywhere near stalkers being ready.
2-gate expand seems detrimental to your economy, almost as much as forge/cannon, and leave you vulnerable to roach rushes as well.
zergs can see early pressure coming because our overlord is over your nat well before your forge or gate finish and we just sit there making funny faces at you
Assuming a proper defense from the Zerg, gateway expand always comes out behind a FFE. The reason it's been gaining some popularity again is because Zerg aren't used to dealing with it and so don't defend optimally.
If you decide to open gateway expand, you pretty much have to play it similarly to a TvZ wherein you have to put together a little timing to stop the zerg from droning like mad. Similar to TvZ, if the zerg defends it perfectly he comes out ahead.
However, unlike TvZ, a lot of gateway pressure relies on sentries so you can properly adapt and respond to your opponents unit composition. If you lose all of the sentries, you are super fucked. The reason you don't see people doing sentryless attacks is because the protoss isn't very capable of adapting to his opponents composition with just zealot/stalker. If you over commit to stalkers and the opponent just gets a ton of speedlings you lose everything. If you over commit to zealots and your opponent builds a lot of roaches you end up with the same problem.
Essentially, if we control it properly, the protoss can make a gateway expand work, but you are punished so harshly for losing your army.
I know I bring it up and rag on it a lot, but I really love SOTG. It used to be a highlight of my week, and I frequently listen to old episodes while I'm travelling about.
It's such a fucking travesty that JP is in any way associated with it.
Anytime I write a post somewhere on the internet trashing SotG's laziness and what it ultimately means to Starcraft culture you always are there to comment on it.
Across the internet we will find eachother
No but seriously, community figures holding audiences captive and being shits is the ESPORTS AIDS.
edit: Also according to that Azubu rumour, the new team will be the 'Azubu Thunder'. Finally WNBA team names are here.
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what feeling did you get exactly?
It's pretty hard to be optimistic or hopeful for the show when there won't have been an episode in two months.
It's been interesting hearing my coworkers talk about the badminton thing, mirrors some of our discussions about match throwing perfectly.
edit: "top 50 streamers"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=357470
jp just doesn't fit the description, he has to go
Considering the Olympics declined Chess and people like to compare SC2 to Chess, I doubt SC2 will be in the Olympics any time soon.
everyone has been super busy and the show will be back at the end of this month
Real talk is nice but it's no SOTG replacement.
It's such a fucking travesty that JP is in any way associated with it.
alsoalso more interestingly feast is going full time, hopefully he can get out to more tournaments and crusshhhhh more dudes
Might explain his usual calm / expressionless demeanor.
'is ok
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I believe there was a ton of speculation about this after the drama that happened between him and GOM over that game with Nestea, but it's never been even remotely confirmed as far as I know. Of course, it's not really something that is likely to ever be confirmed by a source that would actually know.
If you're in a tournament, and you realize that "hey, if I win this next game in my group stage, I get put in to the group that has players rate #1-3 in it, but if I lose, I still make the next round but i'm grouped with #14, 15 and 16", well, you're PTW'ing and strategically throwing the game is the best course of action in order to optimize your chances of winning.
The problem is the tourny format, not that people are taking advantage of it. If you can move on into a better position by losing than by winning, that's what you do.
welcome to the world of extremely cut throat competition.
Joe's Stream.
Asperger's is characterized by an inability to pick up on social/emotional cues and respond appropriately. I went to high school with a couple people who had it (one of them very severely) and know a couple more here at grad school. They're not really calm or expressionless (usually super lively/loud people, actually), they just don't respond to emotion/social stuff in any kind of normal way.
I think Naniwa is just an asshole.
however doing something like the coca/byun losing to help a friend... I think that's an issue and it's a very fine line there.
as much as I don't think it should be punished I also don't really feel bad about it being a rule.
I will spend all my wishes on this
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where i draw the line is throwing games for monetary gain. Fixing matches for gambling. Black-socks style (or pick whatever boxing match you thought was fixed here). Fixing matches to keep gamblers in money is well over the line and the punishment should be harsh, Pete Rose style.
But playing a certain way, even if it's throwing a match, if it improves you're overall odds, yeh, you do that, it's legit. If a tourny setup can be gamed, it's the fault of the tourny rules, not the competitor taking advantage of every thing they can to gain an edge.
Joe's Stream.
I just fear something like a ret throwing a series to taeja because taeja is more likely to take the grand championship you know? technically speaking I don't know if ret should necessarily be banned for such behavior, I just don't like it.
losing a game yourself to better your placement seems different to me even if it can mess with the outcome of the tourney, altering other seeds and stuff.
Or he could, ya'know, just forge fast expand which is better and safer in every way.
Flamma inferno
Igne cutis
Gamblers fixing games is completely over the line, and I think that everyone agrees on that. :-)
Joe's Stream.
I think there is still a place in the game for gateway expands. The maps are just very tailored towards FFE'ing.
Also, while the FFE is certainly safer, is it truly better? Gateway expands can do more things earlier than a FFE can. I'm not a protoss or zerg player but that logic seems sound to me.
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also I'd be surprised if those are up to date. if they are that's great.
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LAWL, I tell you.
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wra
1 gate expo is possible, but your sim city and micro have to be perfect.
I guess there's a reason ffe took over 100% but I'm not aware of it as I don't play the matchup. I'm guessing zergs are too good at dealing with said pressure (except for right now because they don't expect it ever)
but that doesn't mean some proper form of that harassment can't be unlocked.
2-gate expand seems detrimental to your economy, almost as much as forge/cannon, and leave you vulnerable to roach rushes as well.
zergs can see early pressure coming because our overlord is over your nat well before your forge or gate finish and we just sit there making funny faces at you
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
However, unlike TvZ, a lot of gateway pressure relies on sentries so you can properly adapt and respond to your opponents unit composition. If you lose all of the sentries, you are super fucked. The reason you don't see people doing sentryless attacks is because the protoss isn't very capable of adapting to his opponents composition with just zealot/stalker. If you over commit to stalkers and the opponent just gets a ton of speedlings you lose everything. If you over commit to zealots and your opponent builds a lot of roaches you end up with the same problem.
Essentially, if we control it properly, the protoss can make a gateway expand work, but you are punished so harshly for losing your army.
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ESPORTSSSSSSSSSS
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the esports i have always dreamed of
haven't watched yet, but apparently nani's reason for leaving quantic is that he fell out with sase
an end to the third, maybe fourth greatest bromance in sc2
Anytime I write a post somewhere on the internet trashing SotG's laziness and what it ultimately means to Starcraft culture you always are there to comment on it.
Across the internet we will find eachother
No but seriously, community figures holding audiences captive and being shits is the ESPORTS AIDS.
edit: Also according to that Azubu rumour, the new team will be the 'Azubu Thunder'. Finally WNBA team names are here.