I actually can't think of any games off the top of my head, because all the PvZs I have watched lately don't go to the lategame. It is either 2base all-in or 3base all-in without fail. 3base Colossus all-in is really popular in Korea right now because of how difficult it is to stop.
Well, it shows up now and then in games I see. It hasn't worked a single time I can recall, since it needs to do absurd damage to actually pay off, as well as being an essentially dead end tech path before you have 3 or more bases.
kambing is talking about late game DTs. they don't have to do all that much to be worth the shrine. deny a couple of bases for a minute and it was worth it.
the same protoss talking about spining up expansions don't seem to realize they can make cannons. rain (mentioned above) made like >5 canons per base in pvz so he wouldn't die to things lots of toss die to. MC has started doing something close to this and often plays pvz to late game on purpose (there was a daybreak game at this IEM... I've seen lots of non all in pvz lately)
it isn't limited to a race (except it costs terran supply to keep bunkers filled )
and also if you think tvp requires the least micro you're an insane monster (I know that wasn't you zen but I don't want to add another post)
Terran requires by far the most micro in both matchups, due to marines being marines. I just think due to this point they have the potential to be the most demanding with multi pronged infantry aggression. But it really is a moot point, as noone is even close to playing any race perfectly.
And I suppose lategame DTs might be more effective, just haven't caught any games off it. Sadly have not been able to follow the korean scene very closely lately, which does put me a bit behind in what is "recent" so to say.
0
jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
Late game DTs were effective for about a week's worth of pro matches.
Protoss players were like "We can do that?"
And then Zergs and Terrans were like "Oh shit you can do that!"
And then they promptly started putting detection and static defences at their bases, and shut it down.
Late game DTs had sort of been a thing in the rare occasion of a PvP going super late game, but protoss knew well enough to whack a cannon in their mineral lines once a game hit 20 minutes, because they were trying that shit as well.
Terran requires by far the most micro in both matchups, due to marines being marines. I just think due to this point they have the potential to be the most demanding with multi pronged infantry aggression. But it really is a moot point, as noone is even close to playing any race perfectly.
And I suppose lategame DTs might be more effective, just haven't caught any games off it. Sadly have not been able to follow the korean scene very closely lately, which does put me a bit behind in what is "recent" so to say.
if you don't have detection everywhere, DTs wreck a base, or army with impunity.
Late game DTs were effective for about a week's worth of pro matches.
Protoss players were like "We can do that?"
And then Zergs and Terrans were like "Oh shit you can do that!"
And then they promptly started putting detection and static defences at their bases, and shut it down.
Late game DTs had sort of been a thing in the rare occasion of a PvP going super late game, but protoss knew well enough to whack a cannon in their mineral lines once a game hit 20 minutes, because they were trying that shit as well.
Horrible attitude. Frankly, that's the kind of shit that keeps you from improving. (And I mean this in the general sense, not you specifically Jaziek).
DTs are not that black and white of a tech choice. Not just one spore/spine shuts down DT harassment. DTs have more uses than just a-moving them into a mineral line. Forcing static defense and being conservative/mindful of your DTs is a win of its own.
As I've said before, this is the exact kind of shit I heard when Terrans were whining that drops were ineffective against Zerg when we were all going ling/bling/muta. It's just a fundamentally incorrect way of thinking about the situation.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Terran requires by far the most micro in both matchups, due to marines being marines. I just think due to this point they have the potential to be the most demanding with multi pronged infantry aggression. But it really is a moot point, as noone is even close to playing any race perfectly.
Wait wait wait wait wait.
slow down here
You're trying to tell me that the Tier One unit of Terran, the initial unit that only requires minerals built by a race that is entirely specialized around harvesting minerals faster than any other, that is ranged and can also attack air, that can be healed by a flying ship that can also transport them to other places, that can use an early-researched ability to make them MUCH more destructive...
you're trying to tell me they might have a downside!? Well that's just not fair.
Supernova wasn't playing well that game though, apart from the drops. Bad engagement in the middle and it all went downhill from there. Didn't build enough vikings, didn't control his army well, bad gg timing.
Antiga is the perfect example of why you shouldn't use equal win rates to justify map usage.
The map is freaking terrible, but has floated along forever in pools because somehow the confluence of its awful features force it to have 50/50 win rates in most matchups.
Antiga is the perfect example of why you shouldn't use equal win rates to justify map usage.
The map is freaking terrible, but has floated along forever in pools because somehow the confluence of its awful features force it to have 50/50 win rates in most matchups.
Wouldn't call it awful. It's just different in that it favors 3-base plays over 4+ base macro late games. Vortix is definitely not playing to the map here like he should.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
The BL tech switch killed him. I forget who said it, but you have to make some emergency vikings once you know that your opponent is on hive tech so you don't get caught with your pants down.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Vortix shouldn't have had a chance to get BLs out in the first place. He managed to rebuild his ultralisk army before that and did enough damage to prevent Supernova from killing him.
And ironically this played out the opposite from how a ZvT here normally goes. Terran over-extends on an attack with their death army and zerg starves them out because T didn't expand adequately behind it to cover the scenario when their lynchpin forward base goes down.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Vortix shouldn't have had a chance to get BLs out in the first place. He managed to rebuild his ultralisk army before that and did enough damage to prevent Supernova from killing him.
Yeah I actually don't understand where those BLs came from. Not sure if I want to call that good planning so much as luck, but still a well-deserved win for sticking it out.
"So, are you going to go to the GSL?"
"No."
Best interview ever.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Hahaha, the live report thread on TL exploded with balance whining. Supernova played awful and deserved to lose, it had nothing to do with balance. Apparently Zergs that came onto the scene after the queen buff are called 'patch Zergs' who are only doing well because of the patch.
Hahaha, the live report thread on TL exploded with balance whining. Supernova played awful and deserved to lose, it had nothing to do with balance. Apparently Zergs that came onto the scene after the queen buff are called 'patch Zergs' who are only doing well because of the patch.
The Twitch chat is the same...
I mean, I hate to balance whine...but it's looking a little off kilter right now, don't you think? Slivko just made MVP look mediocre...I am not okay with a StarCraft world where Slivko is making MVP look that average, when we know that even on a bad day MVP isn't average.
I don't know, we'll see. I won't say Zerg is OP, because I hate that shit...but I have to wonder whether Zerg late game right now is a bit much. T can barely beat it, and P can only beat it with a gimmick.
Posts
watch some of the kespa pvz games
at least rain's for sure
Well unless we're talking late game, a commitment to a dark shrine is pretty much all-in anyway.
kambing is talking about late game DTs. they don't have to do all that much to be worth the shrine. deny a couple of bases for a minute and it was worth it.
the same protoss talking about spining up expansions don't seem to realize they can make cannons. rain (mentioned above) made like >5 canons per base in pvz so he wouldn't die to things lots of toss die to. MC has started doing something close to this and often plays pvz to late game on purpose (there was a daybreak game at this IEM... I've seen lots of non all in pvz lately)
it isn't limited to a race (except it costs terran supply to keep bunkers filled
and also if you think tvp requires the least micro you're an insane monster (I know that wasn't you zen but I don't want to add another post)
I didn't buy a specific ticket for them but I'm not sure because I have the gom pass thing
And I suppose lategame DTs might be more effective, just haven't caught any games off it. Sadly have not been able to follow the korean scene very closely lately, which does put me a bit behind in what is "recent" so to say.
Protoss players were like "We can do that?"
And then Zergs and Terrans were like "Oh shit you can do that!"
And then they promptly started putting detection and static defences at their bases, and shut it down.
Late game DTs had sort of been a thing in the rare occasion of a PvP going super late game, but protoss knew well enough to whack a cannon in their mineral lines once a game hit 20 minutes, because they were trying that shit as well.
if you don't have detection everywhere, DTs wreck a base, or army with impunity.
Joe's Stream.
http://sc2casts.com/event467-WCS-Korea-Nationals
GOM uploads them, just a bit slowly. I think they're like a couple days behind.
Horrible attitude. Frankly, that's the kind of shit that keeps you from improving. (And I mean this in the general sense, not you specifically Jaziek).
DTs are not that black and white of a tech choice. Not just one spore/spine shuts down DT harassment. DTs have more uses than just a-moving them into a mineral line. Forcing static defense and being conservative/mindful of your DTs is a win of its own.
As I've said before, this is the exact kind of shit I heard when Terrans were whining that drops were ineffective against Zerg when we were all going ling/bling/muta. It's just a fundamentally incorrect way of thinking about the situation.
Pretty impressive anyway; SuperNova is playing pretty well this weekend.
Wait wait wait wait wait.
slow down here
You're trying to tell me that the Tier One unit of Terran, the initial unit that only requires minerals built by a race that is entirely specialized around harvesting minerals faster than any other, that is ranged and can also attack air, that can be healed by a flying ship that can also transport them to other places, that can use an early-researched ability to make them MUCH more destructive...
you're trying to tell me they might have a downside!? Well that's just not fair.
(I'm just teasing you :P)
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Simply baffling.
Yeah, very weird choice. Especially since he isn't even trying to play a hit-and-run game with his ultra/ling/infestor army.
The map is freaking terrible, but has floated along forever in pools because somehow the confluence of its awful features force it to have 50/50 win rates in most matchups.
Wouldn't call it awful. It's just different in that it favors 3-base plays over 4+ base macro late games. Vortix is definitely not playing to the map here like he should.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
what is this i dont even
Yeah I actually don't understand where those BLs came from. Not sure if I want to call that good planning so much as luck, but still a well-deserved win for sticking it out.
"So, are you going to go to the GSL?"
"No."
Best interview ever.
I do hope that MVP wins this, I don't want to watch ZvZ for the rest of the tournament.
Joe's Stream.
Grats!
The Twitch chat is the same...
I mean, I hate to balance whine...but it's looking a little off kilter right now, don't you think? Slivko just made MVP look mediocre...I am not okay with a StarCraft world where Slivko is making MVP look that average, when we know that even on a bad day MVP isn't average.
I don't know, we'll see. I won't say Zerg is OP, because I hate that shit...but I have to wonder whether Zerg late game right now is a bit much. T can barely beat it, and P can only beat it with a gimmick.