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Racists Gone Wild - Bigots Ban Black Betrothment Edition

AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
edited July 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
From the "It Is 20-Fucking-12, Right?" desk, a church votes to ban a couple from marrying there on account of overly high melanin count.
They had set the date and printed and mailed out all the invitations, but the day before wedding bells were to ring for Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson, they say they got some bad news from the pastor.

"The church congregation had decided no black could be married at that church, and that if he went on to marry her, then they would vote him out the church," said Charles Wilson.

The Wilsons were trying to get married at the predominantly white First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs -- a church they attend regularly, but are not members of.

"He had people in the sanctuary that were pitching a fit about us being a black couple," said Te'Andrea Wilson. "I didn't like it at all, because I wasn't brought up to be racist. I was brought up to love and care for everybody."

Methinks this church needs to be brought to the attention of both the IRS and the denomination's organizing body.

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Posts

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    They did this the day before the wedding? It usually takes months to plan a wedding, and they chose the day before to suddenly act this way?

    There's a whole lot of stupid going on.

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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    We elected a black president, so obviously racism is over, so I don't believe this happened

    And you can't make me
    Because if I accept it as true I will be depressed for a week

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Say it with me folks, "Alabama".

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Say it with me folks, "Alabama".

    We burned Georgia to the ground once, we can do it Alabama too

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don't think Georgia got the message, though.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    First off, it's Mississippi, and what has Georgia not learned?

  • MichelanvaloMichelanvalo Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    Michelanvalo on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    We elected a black president, so obviously racism is over, so I don't believe this happened

    And you can't make me
    Because if I accept it as true I will be depressed for a week

    Aw, I was coming here to make this post.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    Good point. Not like there is any precedent in Christianity for standing up for what you believe is right regardless of the suffering it could cause.

    The choice should have been up to the bride and groom, protestors be damned. The priest was a coward and has no moral authority.

    CalixtusZilla360
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Woo hecklers' veto!

  • ThejakemanThejakeman Registered User
    edited July 2012
    Alabama is still one of those states where frat boys will get drunk and chuck golf balls at black people as they drive by, yelling "N*****" all the while. A friend of mine tells me occasionally of how much she was harassed for being even a little publicly affectionate with her girlfriend. Sounds horrifying. I've only visited, but they come down to New Orleans all the time to party and be racist here.

    Roll tide!

    EDIT: While it is actually in Jackson, (Alabama news station though) There's a lot of conflux in gulf coast states. Mississippi is generally considered the lowest rung on the ladder for deep south states even in 'Bama.

    Thejakeman on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?
    To points one and two, there is this thing called "courage of your convictions"; if the pastor isn't racist and it is "a small minority" that is being douchebags, then he should have told them "This is 2012 not 1912, segregation is something that I will not have in this church and if you don't like it then go ahead and find find a church that is ammenable to Klan folk".

    To marry them at another church is spineless.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • ThejakemanThejakeman Registered User
    Gaddez wrote: »

    To marry them at another church is spineless.

    To be fair, everyone there is probably armed.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Thejakeman wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »

    To marry them at another church is spineless.

    To be fair, everyone there is probably armed.

    So... the folks at the other church would form a militia to protect them? :?

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I imagine if it had been an interracial couple the church would have just burst into flames.

  • ThejakemanThejakeman Registered User
    edited July 2012
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Thejakeman wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »

    To marry them at another church is spineless.

    To be fair, everyone there is probably armed.

    So... the folks at the other church would form a militia to protect them? :?

    I really wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of shootout, no. Weird shit happens out here all the time.

    Thejakeman on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I imagine if it had been an interracial couple the church would have just burst into flames.

    This just reminded me of this this old story.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/15/interracial-couple-denied_n_322784.html

  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.

    Maybe the pastor should have seen this as an opportunity to teach the small minority a little something about Christian values, which is kind of, his thing.

    CalixtusPantsB
  • MichelanvaloMichelanvalo Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

    I won't disagree with you on these points. I'm more curious to find out what exactly the Pastor feared for when he caved into their demand. Did they threaten his life? Was he afraid of losing revenue from them? What was it that got him to listen to a "small minority" and not the majority of his church?

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

    I won't disagree with you on these points. I'm more curious to find out what exactly the Pastor feared for when he caved into their demand. Did they threaten his life? Was he afraid of losing revenue from them? What was it that got him to listen to a "small minority" and not the majority of his church?

    Threatened to vote him out.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

    I won't disagree with you on these points. I'm more curious to find out what exactly the Pastor feared for when he caved into their demand. Did they threaten his life? Was he afraid of losing revenue from them? What was it that got him to listen to a "small minority" and not the majority of his church?

    They threatened to vote to remove him as pastor of their church. Many Protestant denominations that don't have a strong hierarchy allow congregations a good amount of latitude in selecting their clergy, especially American branches that incorporated democratic traditions into their structure.

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  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    That sad part is these days, the "small minority" have all the power, regardless of the context apparently.

    Glad they did end up getting married, albeit at a different church, but that Pastor clearly has his work cut out for him back at his own church.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • Craw!Craw! Registered User
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

    I won't disagree with you on these points. I'm more curious to find out what exactly the Pastor feared for when he caved into their demand. Did they threaten his life? Was he afraid of losing revenue from them? What was it that got him to listen to a "small minority" and not the majority of his church?

    Guys! Read the article! The pastor sounds like a nice guy!

    Here you GO!
    ["I didn't want to have a controversy within the church, and I didn't want a controversy to affect the wedding of Charles and Te' Andrea. I wanted to make sure their wedding day was a special day," said Weatherford. ]

    and at the end of the article
    ["I was prepared to go ahead and do the wedding here just like it was planned, and just like we agreed to," said Weatherford. "I was just looking for an opportunity to be able to address a need within our congregation and at the same time minister to them."]

    The article is, like, super short. Come ON!

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    It's harder to come up with a pithy thread title for this weeks outrage thread if you actually read the article thoroughly, though.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Craw! wrote: »
    So there's a few things going on here that Hedgie left out of the OP for some reason. Perhaps they didn't fit his spin.

    - The Pastor said he was getting pressure from a "small minority" to not allow this wedding.
    - The Pastor said that he said no to them because he didn't want to make his Church the site of a protest and did not want to have their wedding interrupted by Protestors
    - The Pastor did marry them at a different church.

    Those 3 facts actually add some much needed perspective to this story.

    So really, the issue here is, should the Pastor have listened to the vocal minority in the interest of a wedding being a peaceful a day or should he have stood up for their right to be married at the wedding, protestors be damned?

    A small minority that had enough power to threaten the position of the pastor.

    And yes, the pastor should have told the bigots "Bring it." Because it is 20-fucking-12, and you don't stop bigots by coddling them. You stop them by standing up to them. You stop them by shining a big ass light on them, and then telling them "Go ahead, be bigots - but everyone will know what you are."

    I won't disagree with you on these points. I'm more curious to find out what exactly the Pastor feared for when he caved into their demand. Did they threaten his life? Was he afraid of losing revenue from them? What was it that got him to listen to a "small minority" and not the majority of his church?

    Guys! Read the article! The pastor sounds like a nice guy!

    Here you GO!
    ["I didn't want to have a controversy within the church, and I didn't want a controversy to affect the wedding of Charles and Te' Andrea. I wanted to make sure their wedding day was a special day," said Weatherford. ]

    and at the end of the article
    ["I was prepared to go ahead and do the wedding here just like it was planned, and just like we agreed to," said Weatherford. "I was just looking for an opportunity to be able to address a need within our congregation and at the same time minister to them."]

    The article is, like, super short. Come ON!

    Yes, he's a nice guy. Too bad he's also a coward. Again, you don't combat bigotry by caving.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Craw! wrote: »

    Guys! Read the article! The pastor sounds like a nice guy!

    Here you GO!
    ["I didn't want to have a controversy within the church, and I didn't want a controversy to affect the wedding of Charles and Te' Andrea. I wanted to make sure their wedding day was a special day," said Weatherford. ]

    and at the end of the article
    ["I was prepared to go ahead and do the wedding here just like it was planned, and just like we agreed to," said Weatherford. "I was just looking for an opportunity to be able to address a need within our congregation and at the same time minister to them."]

    The article is, like, super short. Come ON!

    Yes, lets read the article:
    Church officials say they welcome any race into their congregation. They now plan to hold internal meetings on how to move forward, should this situation occur again.
    Second last paragraph. These people actually are wasting time and effort on deciding how to move forward with this instead of saying "Hey you know what? According to this book here about 20th century american history, segregation was shut down 48 years ago. Maybe instead of pissing and moaning about how some african american folks in good standing want to get married in our church you should put that effort into building a time machine so that you can go back in time to the early 1950's. Might take a lot of time to figure out how to do that, so why don't you go ahead and take sundays off until you can pull it off."

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    No one wants their wedding ruined by bigots. I think the Pastor did the right thing.

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  • Craw!Craw! Registered User
    edited July 2012
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Craw! wrote: »

    Guys! Read the article! The pastor sounds like a nice guy!

    Here you GO!
    ["I didn't want to have a controversy within the church, and I didn't want a controversy to affect the wedding of Charles and Te' Andrea. I wanted to make sure their wedding day was a special day," said Weatherford. ]

    and at the end of the article
    ["I was prepared to go ahead and do the wedding here just like it was planned, and just like we agreed to," said Weatherford. "I was just looking for an opportunity to be able to address a need within our congregation and at the same time minister to them."]

    The article is, like, super short. Come ON!

    Yes, lets read the article:
    Church officials say they welcome any race into their congregation. They now plan to hold internal meetings on how to move forward, should this situation occur again.
    Second last paragraph. These people actually are wasting time and effort on deciding how to move forward with this instead of saying "Hey you know what? According to this book here about 20th century american history, segregation was shut down 48 years ago. Maybe instead of pissing and moaning about how some african american folks in good standing want to get married in our church you should put that effort into building a time machine so that you can go back in time to the early 1950's. Might take a lot of time to figure out how to do that, so why don't you go ahead and take sundays off until you can pull it off."

    I was responding to Michelanvalo's post where he questioned the pastor's decision to hold the marriage at another church. I wholeheartedly agree that if they haven't already, the officials should say "Racism will not be tolerated in our churches and if you do racist shit you can't come, at all.". Hopefully they're trying to figure out what could be done beyond that to decrease milder, unspoken racism among their members (like people who don't really mind blacks coming to church and say nothing of it but would NEVER sit beside them)

    Edit: I mean, if they ARE trying to figure out some way to make everyone forget this as soon as possible while changing nothing, I think they are total assholes. I'm not trying to defend stuff like that, I just think it's unfair to assume that they are all secretly racist. But maybe you have more prior knowledge of the religious leaders in the area, I knew almost nothing about them before this thread popped up (I'm not American).

    Craw! on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    What does the pastor being a nice guy have to do with anything?

    The point of this thread isn't 'This pastor sucks'

    Its that racists are assholes.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    We elected a black president, so obviously racism is over, so I don't believe this happened

    And you can't make me
    Because if I accept it as true I will be depressed for a week

    rue was black????

    racism has either gotten worse, or is more out in the open since obama

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    What does the pastor being a nice guy have to do with anything?

    The point of this thread isn't 'This pastor sucks'

    Its that racists are assholes.

    Well then, in that case, we're kinda done here.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    We elected a black president, so obviously racism is over, so I don't believe this happened

    And you can't make me
    Because if I accept it as true I will be depressed for a week

    rue was black????

    racism has either gotten worse, or is more out in the open since obama

    From my limited exposure with it, my understanding of racism is that people who are racist tend to get more audible when some new unspoken ceiling is breached at which point they come crawling out of the woodwork.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • DelzhandDelzhand Noxalas! Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    We elected a black president, so obviously racism is over, so I don't believe this happened

    And you can't make me
    Because if I accept it as true I will be depressed for a week

    rue was black????

    racism has either gotten worse, or is more out in the open since obama

    "internet"

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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Methinks this church needs to be brought to the attention of both the IRS and the denomination's organizing body.
    There is nothing there that would endanger the church's tax-exempt status. Churches are allowed to be racist.

    Yet another reason why we shouldn't subsidize religion in this country.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    The choice should have been up to the bride and groom, protestors be damned. The priest was a coward and has no moral authority.

    I don't disagree with you. But to be fair, "stand up for your ideals even when your livelihood is on the line" sounds a lot easier when it's someone else's livelihood that's on the line. We can all stand up here, on this anonymous liberal forum, and say we wouldn't have caved and we would have sacrificed our careers to stand up to racism. But I'm sure that being actually confronted with that choice and all its consequences in real life is a different experience from thinking about it in the abstract, and I wouldn't be 100% confident that anyone wouldn't cave to the pressure (myself included) until then.

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    There's a great deal of merit to the idea of not ruining your own wedding just to prove a point.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Methinks this church needs to be brought to the attention of both the IRS and the denomination's organizing body.
    There is nothing there that would endanger the church's tax-exempt status. Churches are allowed to be racist.

    Yet another reason why we shouldn't subsidize religion in this country.
    Not just racist, but they have the right to deny sacrements to anyone for pretty much any reason. I live nowhere near Alabama and there's baptist churches in my town that won't allow a black to marry a white, and even the more open and accepting churches have hangups on interfaith marriages. But it's not just that. When I got married, I had to go through a fairly involved and infinitely awkward process that had the potential to end with the priest saying, "I won't perform this marriage and the Church won't recognize it if you get married another way," for a multitude of reasons like, "not moral enough," "not likely to instill the proper Christian beliefs in children," and even, "intending use birth control after marriage."

    Hevach on
  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    There's a great deal of merit to the idea of not ruining your own wedding just to prove a point.

    Yeah, not everyone is hero, some people just want to be left alone.

    This does not make them cowards.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    The choice should have been up to the bride and groom, protestors be damned. The priest was a coward and has no moral authority.
    I don't disagree with you. But to be fair, "stand up for your ideals even when your livelihood is on the line" sounds a lot easier when it's someone else's livelihood that's on the line. We can all stand up here, on this anonymous liberal forum, and say we wouldn't have caved and we would have sacrificed our careers to stand up to racism. But I'm sure that being actually confronted with that choice and all its consequences in real life is a different experience from thinking about it in the abstract, and I wouldn't be 100% confident that anyone wouldn't cave to the pressure (myself included) until then.
    I think there's a difference between me keeping my head down and just trying to stay out of the way as an IT guy, versus doing it as a priest.

    Like, supposedly, part of his job description is "do the right thing in the face of adversity." That is, assuming you hold the priesthood to the bar they've set for themselves by their words, rather than the one they've set for themselves by their actions.

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