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LGBTT: It's Raining DOMA Rulings! (It's for Thread)

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Posts

  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    On Chick-Fil-A, I'll just quote my post from the previous thread.
    I disagree with CFA's stance on Gay Marriage, but I don't think Boston or Chicago should have right to stop them from doing business in their towns.

    Free speech exists for a reason. Let the customers decide that they don't want to give the business to CFA and the locations in those areas won't last long anyway.

    Local radio personality puts it well:

    yWaUZ.gif

    That's a terrible way of putting it. You could just tell the Governor off without actively supporting CFA. You don't go donating to Westboro Baptist when someone tries to shut them up.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Yeah, most states it's still legal to discriminate.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    I've eaten at Church's. For some reason it tastes like lipstick

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  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    Popeyes is really good. They have fried crawfish specials sometimes too. It's hilariously bad for you, but as far as I know they don't donate to bigots.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    I've eaten at Church's. For some reason it tastes like lipstick

    That's just the fry cook flirting with you.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Brought to you by Technicolor™ Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    I've eaten at Church's. For some reason it tastes like lipstick

    Church's is great if you're poor. But really, no one should be able to buy 16 pieces of chicken and two sides for five dollars.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud bear with us as we do some "rebranding" Registered User regular
    I'm going to have a stroke. No one is suppressing free speech. There is a clear delineation between Cathy jabbering and Cathy donating millions to hate groups. Urgh.

    We had two street long traffic jams outside Chik Fil a.

  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    Well, there's that one alderman in Chicago (right?), but yeah. The Mayor of Boston isn't actually saying he's stopping anyone from building a CFA, nor is Rahm E as far as I can tell.

  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I just ate the best chicken ever.

    At KFC.

    Sweeney Tom on
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Not a Lizard Person Center of the EarthRegistered User regular
    I just ate the best chicken ever.

    At KFC.

    mmmm, the taste of chicken spiced with a distinct lack of hate.

    Yeah, I don't go there anymore after they gave the meal I ordered to someone else because of my race and told me I'd have to wait for them to cook another one.

    Bless your heart.
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    That's the thing - today isn't "boycott day"; every day is boycott day. Today is "buy CFA day," which is much harder to keep up.

    That's a good point. It doesn't make big headlines though.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    It's fucking Disney. Of course they're going to market their movies to the lowest common denominator.

    There are fewer people in the world offended by Heterosexual relationships than there are homosexual relationships. This isn't right, but it's the world we live in and the one Disney has to deal with. Believe it or not, they actually are an incredibly homosexual friendly company

    First off, sorry for being like an hour late.

    Anyway, I know that, and I think everyone in this thread knows that. That's how things are, but we're primarily concerned with how they should be. That characters are always gendered to be heterosexual is both understandable and deeply unfortunate.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    What is this I don't even.
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    I'm going to have a stroke. No one is suppressing free speech. There is a clear delineation between Cathy jabbering and Cathy donating millions to hate groups. Urgh.

    We had two street long traffic jams outside Chik Fil a.

    Either way it doesn't matter. Not buying someone's product is not suppressing their rights somehow. People are free to say what they want and I'm free to call them butts and go somewhere else.

  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    Well, it suggests he gets more out of eating the more desirable sandwich than he loses from his own contributions to CFA. Which undoubtedly he does, we're in Drake equation territory for the latter.

    Does he vote? That's a total waste of time for the same reason.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    It's fucking Disney. Of course they're going to market their movies to the lowest common denominator.

    There are fewer people in the world offended by Heterosexual relationships than there are homosexual relationships. This isn't right, but it's the world we live in and the one Disney has to deal with. Believe it or not, they actually are an incredibly homosexual friendly company

    First off, sorry for being like an hour late.

    Anyway, I know that, and I think everyone in this thread knows that. That's how things are, but we're primarily concerned with how they should be. That characters are always gendered to be heterosexual is both understandable and deeply unfortunate.

    And both Disney and Pixar have been ahead of the curve on their treatment of gay employees, so it's not like these movies are coming from some deep homophobia on the part of their corporate leadership.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud bear with us as we do some "rebranding" Registered User regular
    Not homophobic but certainly heteronormative.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    I think they were happy enough with getting a fairly environmentalist message out there with that movie.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Not homophobic but certainly heteronormative.

    Yeah.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    Find out why he likes their food and propose an alternative. I mean there has to be another chicken place where you are right? People who argue like this generally just are emotionally invested in whatever their favorite purchase was (since it might be being used as a type of gratification for achieving goals, or just something done on bad days to improve their mood) and will switch if an alternative can be found that doesn't introduce too many new hassles.

    I myself am now seriously considering Popeyes, even if it isn't nearly as close to me as KFC. (Never seen a Chick-fil-a so far myself.)

    Fallout2man on
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    tbloxham wrote: »
    BSoB wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    People who are AGAINST marriage equality need to spend equal to the amount of money lost at CFA for as long as the boycott continues. They need to actively do something (buy CFA chicken) which is harder than doing nothing (DON'T buy CFA chicken) for 99% of the population.

    Assuming the split is 50/50 the success of the boycott will come down to who cares more about the issue multiplied by how much it costs them to care. CFA appreciation day will give CFA a bump, but it won't be a long one. Unless their chicken is phonomenal and it attracts new customers to CFA who hadn't previously eaten there.

    This is pretty wrong. If it is part of someone's normal routine/life to stop by CFA and grab some food, then not doing that is actively doing something. As an extreme example, would you call quitting cigarettes "doing nothing"? CFA is cheep, convenient, and/or tasty(as evidenced by the fact that it is earning money), then it takes more involvement NOT to patron them than it does to patron them.

    Cigarettes are addictive. CFA chicken is no better than other equivalently priced chicken brands, so people who love Chicken and also love marriage equality can easily procure cheap chicken from Popeyes or KFC. They don't need to give up chicken entirely. CFA is profitable due to producing an acceptable product with strong cost control and marketing efforts. It's not like the product can't be replaced. It's like boycotting BP service stations. It's only a hassle if you don't have alternatives and almost all americans do.

    Not to go off on a tangent, but boycotting BP stations was stupid and only served to hurt local gas station owners and employees

    Gas is fungible, it's like saying "fuck the left half of this glass of water, I'm going to boycott it and drink from the right half" - you could shut down every BP station in the country and not hurt BP's pocketbook. It's an entirely different situation here because chicken sandwiches are not fungible

    override367 on
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So according to Twitter, Chick-Fil-A is having one of its better days profit-wise, with stores across the US having lines out the door.

    And the people going to that place today aren't going to return.

    Where as the people staying away will likely continue staying away.

  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Tenek wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    Well, it suggests he gets more out of eating the more desirable sandwich than he loses from his own contributions to CFA. Which undoubtedly he does, we're in Drake equation territory for the latter.

    Does he vote? That's a total waste of time for the same reason.

    He doesn't really care about collective action, then. Not sure if arguments will win him over.

    Which, speaking of, I don't really get that viewpoint. Collective action is incredibly powerful. Boycotts, protests, voting, all of that is powerful, powerful stuff.

    Melkster on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    BSoB wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    People who are AGAINST marriage equality need to spend equal to the amount of money lost at CFA for as long as the boycott continues. They need to actively do something (buy CFA chicken) which is harder than doing nothing (DON'T buy CFA chicken) for 99% of the population.

    Assuming the split is 50/50 the success of the boycott will come down to who cares more about the issue multiplied by how much it costs them to care. CFA appreciation day will give CFA a bump, but it won't be a long one. Unless their chicken is phonomenal and it attracts new customers to CFA who hadn't previously eaten there.

    This is pretty wrong. If it is part of someone's normal routine/life to stop by CFA and grab some food, then not doing that is actively doing something. As an extreme example, would you call quitting cigarettes "doing nothing"? CFA is cheep, convenient, and/or tasty(as evidenced by the fact that it is earning money), then it takes more involvement NOT to patron them than it does to patron them.

    Cigarettes are addictive. CFA chicken is no better than other equivalently priced chicken brands, so people who love Chicken and also love marriage equality can easily procure cheap chicken from Popeyes or KFC. They don't need to give up chicken entirely. CFA is profitable due to producing an acceptable product with strong cost control and marketing efforts. It's not like the product can't be replaced. It's like boycotting BP service stations. It's only a hassle if you don't have alternatives and almost all americans do.

    Not to go off on a tangent, but boycotting BP stations was stupid and only served to hurt local gas station owners and employees

    Gas is fungible, it's like saying "fuck the left half of this glass of water, I'm going to boycott it and drink from the right half" - you could shut down every BP station in the country and not hurt BP's pocketbook. It's an entirely different situation here because chicken sandwiches are not fungible

    BP is a corporation with a heritage of horribleness. We're talking the company responsible for the modern Iranian state here.

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  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    If my boss asks me to find him an address and I refuse and he fires me because of that, it doesn't matter what my reason was. It's not discrimination if that sort of fact-finding and such is part of your job.

    Sucks for your friend, though.

    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    FU7kFbw.png
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  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular

    I was just about to post that. That is interesting as hell.

  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular

    Ha!

    I wonder if HQ will give them any backlash. Revoking a franchise agreement perhaps?

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular

    FTFY

    Interesting though. Fear for that guy's job.

    No I don't.
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Melkster wrote: »
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

    I'm sorry, that's bullshit.

    Elected representatives have every right to speak their minds, certainly as much as a CEO. Until a permit gets denied "fuck the mayors" is ridiculous.

    And even then I think there's a discussion to be had.

    AManFromEarth on
    Lh96QHG.png
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    Intellect only guarantees that rationalizations will be more airtight. It's got fuck all to do with making appropriate decisions.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    I wish the people who think that free speech is the same as donating money would give me money instead of telling me their silly opinion.

    I figure I could take a bear.
    L Ron HowardFuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudArithon32Bama
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Melkster wrote: »
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

    You know who did something illegal?











    Rosa Parkes.

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    Melkster wrote: »
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

    I think one of the issues people have is that companies give money to different lobbyist and special interest groups all the time, some of which are horrible (to us). The issue people have with Chik-Fil-A is that they are so openly blatant about the support now. Legally and ethically I don't think they are doing anything wrong. I personally support gay marriage and gay rights and will not be shopping there, but I do not actually think Chik-Fil-A is doing anything wrong with the stance, corporations do this shit all the time. So when people here one corporation getting called out for doing what corporations do, they get confused at the hublub, and so there is a backlash against it. I don't think this will hurt Chik-Fil-A in the long run, the same way the horrific abuses of chickens by KFC or the "beef" that McDonalds serves is any better.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    One of my best friends is gay, and his life directly suffers from a lack of partner benefits.

    I just got browbeat by him because I give him shit for eating at chik-fil-a. His final argument boiled down to the fact that he didn't care about collective action problems, he didn't care about the perfect solution fallacy, and most of all he didn't see the benefit of keeping (maybe) a single penny from anti-marriage groups in exchange for not eating his favorite sandwich.

    This isn't a dumb guy. He's insanely smart and very political. And this isn't the first time we've had this argument. I sometimes wonder if I ought to just go get one of the sandwiches as well. Sigh.

    Intellect only guarantees that rationalizations will be more airtight. It's got fuck all to do with making appropriate decisions.

    Yeah, people think being smart means someone is likely to be right.

    It often does, but it also means that when they're wrong they'll be extremely capable in their defense of it. Either that or it means they'll face crippling worry about being wrong all the time and never state a strong opinion.

  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Melkster wrote: »
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

    I'm sorry, that's bullshit.

    Elected representatives have every right to speak their minds, certainly as much as a CEO. Until a permit gets denied "fuck the mayors" is ridiculous.

    And even then I think there's a discussion to be had.

    Public official have made statements saying that they will block the establishment of Chick-fil-A in their towns.

    I was against public officials making statements saying that they'll block the establishment of a mosque in New York City.

    So yeah, fuck those mayors. They can and should express their discontent with Chick-fil-A. They can and should tell people not to eat there. But they cannot and should not block or threaten to block or appear to block the establishment of a Chick-fil-A franchise location.

    Melkster on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    In other words, companies should be worried about donating millions of dollars to anti-gay campaigns because lots of people might choose not to eat there or because it's wrong -- but definitely not because they're afraid that pro-gay government officials will suppress their business.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Melkster wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    And yeah, the more I think about it the more pissed off I get that those mayors have said what they've said. It compromises our moral high ground, and makes it seem more like a grey area. Which it is, I guess. On the one hand you have some mayors trying to suppress a business that isn't doing anything illegal, and on the other hand you have a business that's spending some serious cash on anti-gay rights.

    Fuck those mayors, seriously. They're not helping.

    I'm sorry, that's bullshit.

    Elected representatives have every right to speak their minds, certainly as much as a CEO. Until a permit gets denied "fuck the mayors" is ridiculous.

    And even then I think there's a discussion to be had.

    Public official have made statements saying that they will block the establishment of Chick-fil-A in their towns.

    I was against public officials making statements saying that they'll block the establishment of a mosque in New York City.

    So yeah, fuck those mayors. They can and should express their discontent with Chick-fil-A. They can and should tell people not to eat there. But they cannot and should not block or threaten to block or appear to block the establishment of a Chick-fil-A franchise location.

    Do you think it's wrong that NYC has done as much as possible to block Walmart?

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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Cities block and control the placement or presence of businesses all the time.

    I figure I could take a bear.
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