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You got [Mass Effect] in my [D&D 4e]!

24

Posts

  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Xagar wrote: »
    They were also actually mostly organic muscle (if I recall). That's how they zipped around like that. Also, you should totally bring them back, because things on walls and ceilings are fun.

    I think if I remember correctly, they were based on organic muscle but it was all synthetic.

  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    reload standard is a lot.. and that assassin talent makes it too big of a difference from standard to minor. i would say that reload move is good enough for most large weapons, and that the talent could then still be move->minor or minor->free

  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Well you said something about pistols being weak, maybe something the pistols have is reload being a free action (or you're already suggesting that, I'm not quite sure :) )

  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Reload move is odd because in ME you can reload while moving.

    Xagar on
    "For who knows what is good for a man in life, during the few and meaningless days he passes through like a shadow?
    Who can tell him what will happen under the sun after he is gone?"
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Sure, but you can always downgrade your standard to a move if you want to reload a big gun and make a run to different cover.

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  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    Well you said something about pistols being weak, maybe something the pistols have is reload being a free action (or you're already suggesting that, I'm not quite sure :) )

    youre right, i guess its just hard for me to look at proposed ideas in a vacuum and be able to tell whether or not they work.

    ill stop bitching about it and put some more time into a 'real' weapon table/action list, trying to get the feel of MP, rather then just a loose idea thrown together.

  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Uhh hmm, I'm not sure how you took my comment but I think maybe you got something out of it I didn't intend to place in it O_o

    I was just trying to suggest something.

  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Been dabbling with Tactical cloak. I expanded a bit more on Lord's original design, and came up with this:
    Tactical Cloak Infiltrator Utility
    You reflect light around you, appearing almost invisible.
    At Will * High Tech, Illusion
    Minor Action Personal

    Effect: You gain total concealment. Whenever you make a non-sustaining action that does not involve moving, the effect dissipates.
    Sustain: Minor Action
    Special (Assassin): While under the effects of Tactical Cloak, you gain a +X bonus to your next attack roll, where X is your intelligence modifier. This bonus is lost if the cloak disappears before attacking.
    Special (Commando): If you attacked while under the effects of Tactical Cloak, you may shift X number of squares after the attack as a free action, where X is your Constitution Modifier.
    Special: During your turn, you may expend an unused encounter power as a free action. If you do, you regain Tactical Cloak.

    Figured I would give another option to Assassin or Commando Infiltrators, giving them a unique Tac Cloak for their builds. Assassins get an accuracy bonus (much like the bullet time effect), while Commandos can hit and run from danger. For DnD newbies, total concealment basically gives opponents a -5 to attack rolls, and you gain combat advantage against them, meaning you get +2 to attack rolls and Sneak Attack damage (another Infiltrator feature).

    TiamatZ on
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    I think that's a good start for an alpha build. What's up with the last one? Did you want Tac-Cloak to be encounter but rechargeable, or is it to quickly recloak after firing?

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    I think that's a good start for an alpha build. What's up with the last one? Did you want Tac-Cloak to be encounter but rechargeable, or is it to quickly recloak after firing?


    Oops, my bad. It should read "At the start of your turn, you may expend an unused encounter power as a free action. If you do, you regain Tactical Cloak." I just realized giving that option as a free action is just begging for abuse.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    So Tac-Cloak shouldn't be At-Will then? That actually makes sense, because 4e has a lot of ways to get CA without free full concealment.

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Does it require an explanation on how AoE powers will affect a cloaked figure? Grenades, Biotics etc?

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Full concealment already takes that into account, and 4e rules say that full concealment (unless otherwise noted in the power) has no effect vs. AoE powers, as they don't apply to vision.

    So much like in ME, if a trooper throws a grenade under your feet, you better move.

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Retaba wrote: »
    Does it require an explanation on how AoE powers will affect a cloaked figure? Grenades, Biotics etc?

    Regarding Concealment rules (from the Player's handbook):

    CONCEALMENT
    ✦ Melee Attacks and Ranged Attacks Only: Attack penalties from concealment apply only to the targets of melee or ranged attacks. Therefore, AoE attacks (e.g. Blasts and Bursts) ignore concealment penalties, provided the concealed character is in said AoE.

    TiamatZ on
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Jinx. You owe me a coke.

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    D:

    Edit: Would Ryncol suffice?

    TiamatZ on
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    this is interesting, i'm not sure where to help cause i'm not sure where everything is at, but the only issue i see is Sentinel is more of a leader then a defender.

    Yeah it's a durable class, but its entire battlefield position is debuffing enemies. I would see it more as the war priest/battle cleric roll of front line leader then any kind of defender outside of maybe warden.

    I would say give two options for sentinel, one is a more controller build for detonations, and the other has more tanking abilities. but both have a strong lean on ripping down defences. Makes more sense to me then a defender focused on defending and then secondaries in debuffing.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Hm, I think you might be right about that. And seriously, step in wherever you see something missing.

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    @Melding: So, a Leader as a primary role, and depending on the build, they would either lean as Controllers or as Defenders as a secondary role?

    Makes sense. A defenderish Sentinel's Tech Armor could offer damage reduction, while a controller focused Sentinel could trigger his Tech Armor to debuff opponents around him.

    Once we get the classes all done (only up till level 3 for playtest purposes), we can work on the weapons and armor.

    TiamatZ on
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I was thinking Tech armour would be like +2 to AC and then it detonated differently depending on your build.Both being Close Burst 1, maybe feats or whatever to augment that.

    Like defender would be Secondary State modifier Damage and marks one enemy, with feats to improve how many get marker like the sword mage.

    And the controller being Different Secondary Stat Modifier damage + push one square.

    Putting it up would be a standard but it lasts forever, even between fights, detonating it would be a standard simply so you can just pop it and then put it right back up without using an action point or whatever.

    wait no! That's shit!

    Instead the exploding is an encounter power immediate interrupt. the defender one does also 1d6 damage marks one enemy in the burst until the start of your next turn, both attack reflex (maybe fort), more uses per encounter as you level up, like a slower power strike or whatever knights and slayers get.

    That's better.

    Melding on
  • KaplarKaplar Registered User regular
    I agree with the AC buff supplied by the armor, but it seems like there would be no need to ever turn it off if you don't plan on bursting. I know it doesn't fit in with ME, but maybe the user could suffer some sort of movement penalty and bursting counts as a minor action.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Haha just wrote a bit on your first idea, then saw your edit.

    That looks pretty good, and the burst could push the enemies back one (or there could be a feat that adds that effect), so there's the possibility of pushing them out of range of their attack.

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    So I was checking skills at Psolms request, and I was thinking on converting some of the 4th Ed. skills to Star Wars Saga. Here's a list of what skills would be available to players in the game (I found some snags during the selection, so I denoted them with '?' so that we could brainstorm on a possible fix or replacement).

    DnD 4th Ed. Star Wars Saga (Main Stat)
    Acrobatics -> Acrobatics (DEX)
    Arcana -> Mechanics (INT)
    Athletics -> Athletics (STR)
    Bluff -> Bluff (Either) (CHA)
    Diplomacy -> Diplomacy (Paragon) (CHA)
    Dungeoneering -> Use Computer (INT) ?1
    Endurance -> Endurance (CON)
    Heal -> Treat Injury (WIS)
    History -> Knowledge (INT) ?2
    Insight -> Insight/Sense Motive (WIS) ?3
    Intimidate -> Intimidate (Renegade)(CHA)
    Nature -> Survival (WIS)
    Perception -> Perception (WIS)
    Religion -> Repair (INT) ?4
    Stealth -> Stealth (DEX)
    Streetwise -> Gather Information (INT) ?5
    Thievery -> Lockpicking/Hacking (DEX) ?6

    ?1 - I have no idea how or where Dungeoneering could be implemented in the ME universe, so I replaced it with Use Computer. But with Hacking (see ?6) I don't know if that's kind of a redundant skill, so maybe replace it with Knowledge (Architecture)?

    ?2 - Same with Dungeoneering, I have no idea where History fits in the ME universe, so I thought this could be replaced with Knowledge (Lore)?

    ?3 - Should we keep it as Insight? Or rename it Sense Motive?

    ?4 - Religion doesn't have a place in ME, since Gods don't play a major role in the universe. I was thinking on scrapping it and replacing it with Repair, with Intelligence as it's domain.

    ?5 - I don't know if Gather Information should be part of Intelligence or Charisma. Maybe make this a hybrid skill?

    ?6 - I don't know if lockpicking has a place in ME (thanks to the use of Gel to open containers and stuff :P) or if it should be replaced with Hacking. If the latter, it could make Use Computer a redundant skill.

    Thoughts and ideas people?

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    ?1 - Maybe instead of Use Computer, it becomes a Xenobiology type skill? That way it keeps a similar use to 4e's, which is to gain some insight into monsters and their environments.
    ?2 - I think history has a pretty good place, but I'd limit it to the past couple hundred years, or maybe replace it with Politics (still INT), which could tell a character about current conflicts, treaties, and the like, with some recent history thrown in.
    ?3 - Either way, I think it works the same. It's definitely useful in 4e, I'm sure it will be useful in ours.
    ?4 - This might be the place for a Lore skill, specifically ancient stuff like Protheans, the Leviathan of Dis, etc.
    ?5 - If ?2 becomes politics, I think gather info should remain CHA. I don't think 4e has any hybrid abilities for skills. I know 3e did.
    ?6 - I think hacking is fine here, and most locks are electronic anyway.

    Dig the Paragon/Renegade bit there, too.

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  • AntimatterAntimatter Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Xenobiology or Archaeology/Paleontology, i'd say

    Antimatter on
  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    Have renegade/paragon interrupts been mentioned yet? Because there's already a 4E mechanic for those...

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Thanks for the input guys, here's a 2nd draft of the skill list. If possible, I'll explain what that skill focuses on:

    DnD 4th Ed. Star Wars Saga (Main Stat)
    Acrobatics -> Acrobatics (DEX)
    Arcana -> Mechanics (INT)
    Athletics -> Athletics (STR)
    Bluff -> Bluff (Either) (CHA)
    Diplomacy -> Diplomacy (Paragon) (CHA)
    Dungeoneering -> Archeology (INT)
    Endurance -> Endurance (CON)
    Heal -> Treat Injury (WIS)
    History -> Politics (WIS)
    Insight -> Insight (WIS)
    Intimidate -> Intimidate (Renegade)(CHA)
    Nature -> Survival (WIS)
    Perception -> Perception (WIS)
    Religion -> Xenobiology (INT)
    Stealth -> Stealth (DEX)
    Streetwise -> Gather Information (CHA)
    Thievery -> Hacking (DEX)

    Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Heal (AKA Treat Injury), Insight, Perception and Stealth are pretty much the same as their DnD counterparts.

    Mechanics basically focuses on how talented a PC is at understanding how a mechanical object words (e.g. robots, vehicles, ships). As such, I decided Repair should be scrapped and merged into that skill instead.

    Next up, I decided to change Dungeoneering to Archeology (thanks Anti), which is basically the study of ancient artifacts and civilizations. Note I didn't say just Prothean relics and civilizations, as this skill could be used to identify any civilization's past. Treasure Hunters, prospectors and black market dealers would have a decent Archeology score, whereas scientists and researchers should have higher scores.

    History I decided to replace with Politics (thanks Lord). Like Lord explained earlier, Politics could tell a character about current conflicts, treaties, organizations and the like, with some recent history thrown in. I figured this is a skill used when meeting and dealing with dignitaries or people of political importance (allowing players to use Gather Information for other purposes e.g. investigating the back alleys of a city to find information about a target or victim). In addition, i decided to make Wisdom the main stat of choice for Politics, since one has to be open-minded and level headed when dealing with the intricacies of the always shifting political world.

    The difference between Endurance and Survival, is that endurance focuses on how much a PC 'endures' effects and conditions (like radiation or diseases), whereas Survival focuses on how a PC survives outside civilization (like if 'your stranded on an island, use Survival to find nourishment' kind of deal).

    Lastly, I decided to replace Religion with Xenobiology (thanks again Lord and Anti), allowing PCs to make Monster Knowledge checks when facing unknown LIVING enemies (for Geth or Synthetic targets, you'd need to use a Mechanics roll).

    Bluff I decided to remain neutral, as it can be subject to interpretation.

    Grog wrote: »
    Have renegade/paragon interrupts been mentioned yet? Because there's already a 4E mechanic for those...

    I was thinking on rather keeping this unique to the game, rather than the tabletop. I figured PCs would interrupt the GM anyway when they got an idea in their heads :P

    And what were these interrupts in 4th ed. again? I kinda forgot about 'em.

    TiamatZ on
  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Also, regarding the Tech and Biotic primer/detonator combo system. How will it be implemented power wise?

    Will Primers be implemented in Encounter and Daily Powers, with At-Will powers the detonators? And how will the Primer keyword work?

    Does it basically act like a Warlock's curse function (i.e. in that primers can be stacked on the same or multiple monsters) or like a Mark effect (in that a new Primer supersedes the old one)?

    Edit: the reason I'm asking is because I'm working on the Infiltrator class design, and I was wondering if it would be an excellent Tech Primer- based class (in that it sets up Primer-induced marks on targets, thus giving the Engineer or Sentinel the chance to detonate them).

    TiamatZ on
  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    TiamatZ wrote: »
    Grog wrote: »
    Have renegade/paragon interrupts been mentioned yet? Because there's already a 4E mechanic for those...

    I was thinking on rather keeping this unique to the game, rather than the tabletop. I figured PCs would interrupt the GM anyway when they got an idea in their heads :P

    And what were these interrupts in 4th ed. again? I kinda forgot about 'em.

    Oh I just meant Immediate Interrupts in general. So a paragon/renegade interrupt might be something like the Guardian theme's Guardian counter interrupt.

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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure only one effect can be detonated at a time. I did a little reading, and in ME3, biotics have specific combos laid out (the primer/detonator thing I mentioned for the powers), but for tech bursts, the only thing that needs to happen is a tech power hits an enemy, then another power (literally any other power than the one that hit in the first place) hits the enemy. Tech bursts are weaker than biotic explosions.

    For the tabletop though, I think we should treat biotic explosions/tech bursts the same, except for damage type.

    Primers as encounters/dailies (or augments for biotics) is a good idea, then detonators being at-wills (or sometimes other encounters/dailies) could work.

    So let's say Aria zaps a merc with Shockwave (augment 2 includes a biotic primer). Aria's player drops a token on the merc that lasts until EoNT or detonated, whichever comes first.
    Niftu Cal is up next, and he decides to use his biotic god powers to Warp (no augment needed) the merc. This detonates Aria's biotic effect.

    Biotic Explosion
    No Action
    Trigger: A biotic detonator power hits a creature that is biotic primed.
    Attack: Close burst 1
    Effect: Deal X damage to each enemy in burst

    Now, X could be a few things. Going off the video game, the only thing X cares about is the levels of the powers used (for instance, a level 2 throw and a level 6 warp = level 8 explosion, though a level 6 throw and a level 6 warp = level 12 explosion). So instead of the level of the powers (as we'll be detonating things with at-wills usually), we could use the levels of the two characters involved. Just adding them together would get ridiculous (imagine two level 5 biotics hitting explosions off all over the map for 10 free damage in a burst 1), so maybe a scale?
    Levels 1-5, add 2 damage each (so for most, that would be a 4 point biotic explosion)
    Levels 6-10, add 4 damage each (8 damage explosions)
    Levels 11-15, add 6 damage each (12 damage explosions)
    Levels 16-20, add 8 damage each (16 damage explosions)
    There are tons of other ways to determine biotic explosion damage too, I just thought less dice rolling here would be less of a headache.

    Another question - who actually does the damage? If a creature gets bloodied by a burst/explosion, who gets to trigger off that? Or reducing someone to 0? Going by the multiplayer game, the character that Primed the explosion gets the most credit. So, going by that logic, the PC who used the encounter/daily would be considered the "exploder," while the targets would of course be the "explodees." This is also important for any feats involved.

    Speaking of feats - I think we could add a ton of add-on biotic/tech explosion type feats. A little extra damage, wider blast radius on a crit for the prime, etc.

    Oh, and speaking of damage type earlier, I figure Biotic Explosion would either be psychic, force, or both, while Tech Bursts would be Electric (lightning) damage.

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Is there just an elemental type of damage? I can understand Electric but techburts can be triggered off of cryo/incinerate. But I guess you could argue that heat and cold interactions can produce electricity of some sort.

  • AntimatterAntimatter Registered User regular
    Oh hey, I am helpful!

  • TiamatZTiamatZ Dapperest of Murkrows In search of a monocleRegistered User regular
    Finally made an Infiltrator Alpha build (sadly, only up till level one; I'll add in some more powers when I'm not tired).

    Pretty much a Rogue/Ranger hybrid class. I made most of it's Encounter powers implement-based powers, therefore giving players more thought on sacrificing unused Encounter powers. Do you really wanna sacrifice that Cryo blast that might get you out in a pinch for an extra Tactical cloak to line up that perfect sniper shot?

    Also, @LordPalington, I didn't see your earlier post when I was finishing up the class, but it looks as though we had the same idea regarding how Detonators and Primers set up. Some of the powers in this playtest have either of those 2 keywords. In addition, powers with the Tech Primer keyword have an extra description, detailing what that Primer does whenever the Primed target gets hit with a power with the Tech Detonator. Also, I was thinking that Primed targets lose the Biotic/Tech Primer after they get hit with Detonators, otherwise, it could leave to abuse by players that would prime enemies, then spam detonators over and over at those targets. I also added a new Condition in as well regarding frozen targets: the Brittle Condition. Its the same as the Restrained Condition, except the target gains a -5 penalty to defenses instead of attack rolls (or whats your thoughts on this, guys? Rather use an existing Condition like Helpless or Unconscious instead for frozen targets?)

    So, any thoughts or ideas on the current Alpha Infiltrator build?

    If not, it's on to the Adept for me :P

  • SuperRuperSuperRuper Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I'm posting for so much interest in this.

    If you don't mind my 2 cents:

    ~ The brittle condition could work as a helpless condition, that way you can coup de grace a frozen target kind of like in the actual game. Or you could use the effect of increasing crit chance on next attack(on a natural 18-19-20)

    ~Adding ammo mods could be interesting. Picking them up through a vendor or a mission

    - Poison has a chance to apply ongoing Acid damage based on RoF (Same for Cryo/frost and Incend/Fire)
    - Shredder has a base +Mod against organic/unarmored
    - Armor piercing reduces the AC of the target for your shots
    These can also scale based on the ammo level you have and you can change them during a short rest. Maybe a soldier can do it as a move or something with a feat

    ~ Weapon mods could be a little more difficult and would require the guns to be balanced first.

    ~With the Infiltrator maybe we could add a crit chance increase feat as well (on a 19-20). I feel like that class could be a fun chance to introduce a crit fisher build that would fit with the playstyle/theme of a sniper

    SuperRuper on
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  • AntimatterAntimatter Registered User regular
    oh man, you gotta bring back polonium rounds.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    One thing I noticed on the arc grenade that I was going to bring up when we got more into health/shields/barriers, etc, was that I wanted to give shields Vulnerable Electric 5. Maybe it could do double against synthetic targets?

    Otherwise a lot of it looks pretty good, at least good enough to try a level 1 combat when we get a few more ready.

    Speaking of polonium rounds, we should probably redo the damage types for this. I doubt we'll run into many radiant or necrotic powers, for instance. Maybe do damage types of the different powers/ammo? Fire, Cold, Lightning are all pretty obvious, but maybe Radiation for polonium, (?) for Warp ammo?

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  • AntimatterAntimatter Registered User regular
    Biotics for Warp ammo and biotics in general, I should think.

    I do know that Radiation is a damage type in Gamma World 4e, so even that isn't too crazy.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Yeah, biotic could be its own damage type, and some powers could have both. For example, I figure shockwave would be biotic and force damage.

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  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    Uhh hmm, I'm not sure how you took my comment but I think maybe you got something out of it I didn't intend to place in it O_o

    I was just trying to suggest something.

    no, i assure you, i took no offense. what i meant was that my proposed system is not really a system and more of a nebulous idea. i also meant that whether or not having certain weapons with different reload times (like ranged in 4e) feels like its not the best way to do it, but without having all the stats down, i cant say for sure.

    the other part of what i meant was that i mean to spend some time to fully realize the system i have in my head, to offer it up for criticism once it is complete.

    but i havent done that yet. ill update the second post with some of these new developments. anyone have any ideas/input for how to organize it? ive been trying to do it based on credit (who did what) but i think that may not be the best way going forward.

    should I just merge everything into the 'alpha build so far'?

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    I'm honestly not worried about where/if my name shows up on it so far, I just want to sit down with some friends and give it a try. I had thought about putting it up on a blog, but a few people (or maybe one?) mentioned it wasn't a great thing for collaboration. Maybe a wiki? We can get one of those for free, right?

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