I don't know about you guys but I've been getting better lap times in my M3 than I have with my Cosworth.
It seems to largely depend on the track. The Lancia at least dominates on GP but is less competitive on some of the other courses. It's hard for me to make the call, since I'm running it, but we'll have to see how things shake out. If the top of the board on GP is completely AWD, it will have to come down a little, but it's hard to find a sweet spot that doesn't kill them on Road Atlanta and the like.
The Lancia's got no nut above 120. Commie's M3 was pulling away easily in 5th gear down GP's front straight.
Speaking of Commie, did you get anything useful out of the car I sent you?
Well it turns out that I was reading the wrong line and thought the max PI for the M3 was 530 (when in fact it was 490) so that's probably why it was pulling away on the straights.
It helped some. I'll take a look at again and see if I can glean some more tuning ideas.
Edit: So I don't know if it was a placebo effect of what but the brakes on the lancia eclibull had in the club garage felt like they worked a LOT better than what I have. Eclibull, what settings are you running on it?
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
I don't know about you guys but I've been getting better lap times in my M3 than I have with my Cosworth.
It seems to largely depend on the track. The Lancia at least dominates on GP but is less competitive on some of the other courses. It's hard for me to make the call, since I'm running it, but we'll have to see how things shake out. If the top of the board on GP is completely AWD, it will have to come down a little, but it's hard to find a sweet spot that doesn't kill them on Road Atlanta and the like.
The Lancia's got no nut above 120. Commie's M3 was pulling away easily in 5th gear down GP's front straight.
Speaking of Commie, did you get anything useful out of the car I sent you?
Well it turns out that I was reading the wrong line and thought the max PI for the M3 was 530 (when in fact it was 490) so that's probably why it was pulling away on the straights.
It helped some. I'll take a look at again and see if I can glean some more tuning ideas.
Edit: So I don't know if it was a placebo effect of what but the brakes on the lancia eclibull had in the club garage felt like they worked a LOT better than what I have. Eclibull, what settings are you running on it?
What size tires did you have on the M3? I think the 225s front/back are the best balance of size and temperature in that car. I always found it's biggest problem was a desire to kick the tail out in hard cornering, but mostly just had to be careful with it.
Also fucking AWD. Rabble rabble grip rabble stew's bullshit time rabble.
What size tires did you have on the M3? I think the 225s front/back are the best balance of size and temperature in that car. I always found it's biggest problem was a desire to kick the tail out in hard cornering, but mostly just had to be careful with it.
Also fucking AWD. Rabble rabble grip rabble stew's bullshit time rabble.
Great race though.
I actually didn't think about changing the tire size at all until someone mentioned it over chat at the end of one of the race. So I was running stock tire size. I might end up switching to the Lancia Evo because even with being careful I would slide the M3's ass out a little too much at least one or two turns per lap.
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
I don't know about you guys but I've been getting better lap times in my M3 than I have with my Cosworth.
It seems to largely depend on the track. The Lancia at least dominates on GP but is less competitive on some of the other courses. It's hard for me to make the call, since I'm running it, but we'll have to see how things shake out. If the top of the board on GP is completely AWD, it will have to come down a little, but it's hard to find a sweet spot that doesn't kill them on Road Atlanta and the like.
The Lancia's got no nut above 120. Commie's M3 was pulling away easily in 5th gear down GP's front straight.
Speaking of Commie, did you get anything useful out of the car I sent you?
Well it turns out that I was reading the wrong line and thought the max PI for the M3 was 530 (when in fact it was 490) so that's probably why it was pulling away on the straights.
It helped some. I'll take a look at again and see if I can glean some more tuning ideas.
Edit: So I don't know if it was a placebo effect of what but the brakes on the lancia eclibull had in the club garage felt like they worked a LOT better than what I have. Eclibull, what settings are you running on it?
The brake settings are one of those "Should be in an FAQ somewhere", actually. The 100% Braking Pressure default is really better suited for someone using a wheel/peddles than a controller (I use a controller). My usual setting varies depending on the weight/power of the car between 130% and 145%, I'm not sure at the moment what the Delta is set at.
And yeah, RWD cars especially need wider tires to avoid kicking out.
I don't know about you guys but I've been getting better lap times in my M3 than I have with my Cosworth.
It seems to largely depend on the track. The Lancia at least dominates on GP but is less competitive on some of the other courses. It's hard for me to make the call, since I'm running it, but we'll have to see how things shake out. If the top of the board on GP is completely AWD, it will have to come down a little, but it's hard to find a sweet spot that doesn't kill them on Road Atlanta and the like.
The Lancia's got no nut above 120. Commie's M3 was pulling away easily in 5th gear down GP's front straight.
Speaking of Commie, did you get anything useful out of the car I sent you?
Well it turns out that I was reading the wrong line and thought the max PI for the M3 was 530 (when in fact it was 490) so that's probably why it was pulling away on the straights.
It helped some. I'll take a look at again and see if I can glean some more tuning ideas.
Edit: So I don't know if it was a placebo effect of what but the brakes on the lancia eclibull had in the club garage felt like they worked a LOT better than what I have. Eclibull, what settings are you running on it?
And yeah, RWD cars especially need wider tires to avoid kicking out.
Pfft, M5 ain't need no wide tires. M5 gon' race sideway'.
Seriously, though, should I just swap to the M3 so we're all in Division 2?
The brake settings are one of those "Should be in an FAQ somewhere", actually. The 100% Braking Pressure default is really better suited for someone using a wheel/peddles than a controller (I use a controller). My usual setting varies depending on the weight/power of the car between 130% and 145%, I'm not sure at the moment what the Delta is set at.
And yeah, RWD cars especially need wider tires to avoid kicking out.
Are you using ABS or something? Because I don't use anything over 90% on any car. 145% would lockup the tires the instant you touch the pedal. I can't imagine the controller trigger is that different.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
+1
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Yeah, ABS is the only way I can see that making sense. Without it, you want *more* control over your brakes, not less. 90% was my old setting as well.
I don't use wheel/pedals, but for controller and speed wheel, I usually set between 100-115% and 55-60 front with no abs/trac/stab. M5 aside, that usually gives me a pretty good feel for my braking.
You people make me a sad bovine. I've been running around ~85% from Stew's previous suggestion. STOP CONFUSING THE NOOB!
He gets angry and then sad and then weepy.
Do you use ABS? I don't, so locking up the brakes quickly with high pressures is bad. I want the first 80-90% of my pedal travel to not lock the brakes so I have decent control over my braking. I can still lock up the brakes if I push all the way down. To do this, my brake pressure usually ends up around 90%. It might vary a little bit depending on the specific car.
With ABS, you won't lock the brakes early even with higher pressures, but you won't stop as quickly as someone not using ABS.
As far as brake balance, my preference is to have it biased slightly front, 51 or 52%, so if I do lock up the brakes, the car will understeer. But the percentage depends on the car. I do high speed stops while checking the telemetry to make sure the back tires are not losing traction before the fronts. However, I am trying to push the balance as far rearward as possible while still making the fronts lock first. During later testing, I might tweak it very slightly just based on how the car feels under braking, balance oversteer and understeer.
Others have different balance preferences, you'll just have to try a few variations and see what feels right.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I usually have my brake pressure at 125% or 130%, 47% bias.
I use a controller and tend only ever press down ~60% of the way but rarely ever lock up the tires.
Tire pressures: general consensus is to set the pressure so that after a few laps when you tires are up to temperature, they will be near 32 psi. You can check the tire's current pressure in telemetry. They won't be the same left to right, but generally focus on the higher one as it's doing more work.
On tire widths, you are balancing traction with tire temperature. Traction will be best with your tire temps between 180-210 degrees. Wider tires also provide more grip, but they also lower tire temps. So if a tire's running hot, going wider's generally a good bet. (This assumes your driving's not torturing the car with excessive oversteer/understeer.) But for a tire already under temp, that tradeoff may or may not improve things, you'll just have to test.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I don't have abs on and I've been playing around with pushing the front bias up to 60% but maybe I need to back off that some.
A good way to get a sense of any potential problem areas in your tune is to finish a single player race and go the the view replay option. Turn on the telemetry screen and just watch the race. Watch the suspension screen to see if you're bottoming out and need to change springs or ride height, watch the traction circles screen to see what the tires are doing under cornering (oversteer/understeer balance) and braking, check the tire details screen to see tire pressures, watch the tire temps screen to look for any needed changes to width or camber.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
Wow, so you set your initial tire pressure lower than stock, then? Huh, I've really never done that. Perhaps I'll have to try that.
Yes, my Lancia I think has 28.5 front, 29 rear. They'll hover just under 32 at temp. But if you're running better times with higher pressures, don't let me stop you.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I don't use ABS, my bias preference is the same as Kemlo's and with brakes set 130-145% I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever locked up in situations that weren't emergency-forgot-to-brake-or-avoiding-the-car-in-front-of-me type deals. At 100% on a controller I felt like I had to slam the trigger all the way down to even partially engage the brakes, with the settings I have I feel I have full control since I almost never have to pull the trigger all the way. While I've never tried pedals, I know some that have used both have said the trigger is VERY different from the pedals, backed up by the difference I find running a car tuned by someone that runs a wheel and one by someone who doesn't. In the end, it might just be a preference/style thing.
For tire pressure I start every tune with it dropped to 28.5, front and back, and then tune from there if needed.
Exhibition Race at Nurburgring GP Short Qualifying Results:
Eclibull #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:40.272
Knight is Crazy #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 1:40.538
Keml0 #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 1:41.679
Basticular #23 Subaru Legacy RS 1:41.947
Michelanvalo #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 1:42.310
SiliconStew #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:42.427
DLVR80R #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 1:43.883
ebotacular #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:44.174
Tiresias Mons #? BMW E28 M5 1:46.239
CommunistCows #? BMW E30 M3 1:52.323
Exhibition Race at Nurburgring GP Short 25 laps Race Results:
SiliconStew #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 42:11.487
Knight is Crazy #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 42:11.792
Keml0 #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 42:14.233
Eclibull #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 42:16.175
Basticular #23 Subaru Legacy RS 43:14.792
Michelanvalo #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 43:26.306
ebotacular #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 43:42.720
Tiresias Mons #? BMW E28 M5 45:29.496
CommunistCows #? BMW E30 M3 46:23.676
DLVR80R #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R DNF
For those that couldnt make it that was one hell of a close race. Knight, myself, Eclibull, Keml0 and Stew all traded positions for the top 5 so many times I couldn't count. I think each of us led at least one whole lap at one point. Then on lap 20 I made the mistake where instead of saying "this is one hell of a close race" I said "this is going to be one hell of a close finish" and jinxed myself since 5 seconds later I impaled myself onto the end of the pit entrance wall. Even with the resulting pit stop I only finished 63 seconds behind the winner. These are going to be some hotly contested races this season.
I'll post more later tonight (updated rules and car list and lobby settings)
Basticle on
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I admit to passing on the race mostly in favor of painting, which just feels more enjoyable and productive to me these days.
That said, I'll also admit there is a burning curiosity in me to see how my hot lap time might have compared to those positioning ones. Ho-hum ...
For those that couldnt make it that was one hell of a close race. Knight, myself, Eclibull, Keml0 and Stew all traded positions for the top 5 so many times I couldn't count. I think each of us led at least one whole lap at one point. Then on lap 20 I made the mistake where instead of saying "this is one hell of a close race" I said "this is going to be one hell of a close finish" and jinxed myself since 5 seconds later I impaled myself onto the end of the pit entrance wall. Even with the resulting pit stop I only finished 63 seconds behind the winner. These are going to be some hotly contested races this season.
I'll post more later tonight (updated rules and car list and lobby settings)
Only 4 minutes behind the leader? AWESOME.
btw I've taken #74.
Edit: Thanks Stew, I'll go use the telemetry screen and try and use that for some tuning.
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Hmm. I had bad experiences with Porsche in the past, but I am tempted to see what I can get out of that 944......
I'm going to try and make it next week, as work has finally calmed down a bit.
That said, I played about with Forza last night (and grabbed the last two car packs I didn't have), and I'm going to struggle. I've been playing F1 2012, and playing Forza last night I killed a number of engines because of quick downshifts. Seriously need some practice.
I'll be on later today, probably around 7pm Central, hosting a public lobby. If we can get enough people from here to make it interesting I can then close it and lock out the public
Also, after not really tuning it except to drop tire pressure, fix gearing and lower aero, I was doing 1.37 flat on a clean lap around Atlanta, and more realistically a 1.36.4 dirty after going a tad wide on one corner. How does that put me competitively?
Also, after not really tuning it except to drop tire pressure, fix gearing and lower aero, I was doing 1.37 flat on a clean lap around Atlanta, and more realistically a 1.36.4 dirty after going a tad wide on one corner. How does that put me competitively?
Adjustable aero isn't allowed, per the rules.
I'll try to run some Atlanta later if I get a chance and see what kind of times my Lancia is looking at. Also need to fix my gearing for Atlanta I think.
Looks like the video card on my XBox has died, so no racing for me after all.
Guess I can sell all my peripherals and games, then.
I need an extra controller if you are willing to ship stuff.
_____________________
So can I get some official or unanimous decision on getting a PI handicap? I was hoping to do maybe A550 in my Lancia(I dropped the idea of driving the m3) with the caveat that if I start actually getting out of last place I'll remove the handicap and go back down to A530. Does that sound reasonable?
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
Looks like the video card on my XBox has died, so no racing for me after all.
Guess I can sell all my peripherals and games, then.
I need an extra controller if you are willing to ship stuff.
_____________________
So can I get some official or unanimous decision on getting a PI handicap? I was hoping to do maybe A550 in my Lancia(I dropped the idea of driving the m3) with the caveat that if I start actually getting out of last place I'll remove the handicap and go back down to A530. Does that sound reasonable?
Personally I don't care. For a real ruling you'd have to get Bast's approval, but I'd be fine with it.
Also someone else should do laps on Road Atlanta (Stew/Eclibull) so I can see how much I have to curse AWD this go round.
Posts
I'll post race results tomorrow morning but man that was an awsome race (except for when i destroyed my car)
Well it turns out that I was reading the wrong line and thought the max PI for the M3 was 530 (when in fact it was 490) so that's probably why it was pulling away on the straights.
It helped some. I'll take a look at again and see if I can glean some more tuning ideas.
Edit: So I don't know if it was a placebo effect of what but the brakes on the lancia eclibull had in the club garage felt like they worked a LOT better than what I have. Eclibull, what settings are you running on it?
What size tires did you have on the M3? I think the 225s front/back are the best balance of size and temperature in that car. I always found it's biggest problem was a desire to kick the tail out in hard cornering, but mostly just had to be careful with it.
Also fucking AWD. Rabble rabble grip rabble stew's bullshit time rabble.
Great race though.
I actually didn't think about changing the tire size at all until someone mentioned it over chat at the end of one of the race. So I was running stock tire size. I might end up switching to the Lancia Evo because even with being careful I would slide the M3's ass out a little too much at least one or two turns per lap.
The brake settings are one of those "Should be in an FAQ somewhere", actually. The 100% Braking Pressure default is really better suited for someone using a wheel/peddles than a controller (I use a controller). My usual setting varies depending on the weight/power of the car between 130% and 145%, I'm not sure at the moment what the Delta is set at.
And yeah, RWD cars especially need wider tires to avoid kicking out.
Pfft, M5 ain't need no wide tires. M5 gon' race sideway'.
Seriously, though, should I just swap to the M3 so we're all in Division 2?
Are you using ABS or something? Because I don't use anything over 90% on any car. 145% would lockup the tires the instant you touch the pedal. I can't imagine the controller trigger is that different.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
He gets angry and then sad and then weepy.
Do you use ABS? I don't, so locking up the brakes quickly with high pressures is bad. I want the first 80-90% of my pedal travel to not lock the brakes so I have decent control over my braking. I can still lock up the brakes if I push all the way down. To do this, my brake pressure usually ends up around 90%. It might vary a little bit depending on the specific car.
With ABS, you won't lock the brakes early even with higher pressures, but you won't stop as quickly as someone not using ABS.
As far as brake balance, my preference is to have it biased slightly front, 51 or 52%, so if I do lock up the brakes, the car will understeer. But the percentage depends on the car. I do high speed stops while checking the telemetry to make sure the back tires are not losing traction before the fronts. However, I am trying to push the balance as far rearward as possible while still making the fronts lock first. During later testing, I might tweak it very slightly just based on how the car feels under braking, balance oversteer and understeer.
Others have different balance preferences, you'll just have to try a few variations and see what feels right.
I use a controller and tend only ever press down ~60% of the way but rarely ever lock up the tires.
Steam: Kemlo
On tire widths, you are balancing traction with tire temperature. Traction will be best with your tire temps between 180-210 degrees. Wider tires also provide more grip, but they also lower tire temps. So if a tire's running hot, going wider's generally a good bet. (This assumes your driving's not torturing the car with excessive oversteer/understeer.) But for a tire already under temp, that tradeoff may or may not improve things, you'll just have to test.
A good way to get a sense of any potential problem areas in your tune is to finish a single player race and go the the view replay option. Turn on the telemetry screen and just watch the race. Watch the suspension screen to see if you're bottoming out and need to change springs or ride height, watch the traction circles screen to see what the tires are doing under cornering (oversteer/understeer balance) and braking, check the tire details screen to see tire pressures, watch the tire temps screen to look for any needed changes to width or camber.
Yes, my Lancia I think has 28.5 front, 29 rear. They'll hover just under 32 at temp. But if you're running better times with higher pressures, don't let me stop you.
For tire pressure I start every tune with it dropped to 28.5, front and back, and then tune from there if needed.
Eclibull #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:40.272
Knight is Crazy #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 1:40.538
Keml0 #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 1:41.679
Basticular #23 Subaru Legacy RS 1:41.947
Michelanvalo #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 1:42.310
SiliconStew #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:42.427
DLVR80R #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 1:43.883
ebotacular #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 1:44.174
Tiresias Mons #? BMW E28 M5 1:46.239
CommunistCows #? BMW E30 M3 1:52.323
Exhibition Race at Nurburgring GP Short 25 laps Race Results:
SiliconStew #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 42:11.487
Knight is Crazy #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 42:11.792
Keml0 #? Ford Escort Cosworth RS500 42:14.233
Eclibull #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 42:16.175
Basticular #23 Subaru Legacy RS 43:14.792
Michelanvalo #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R 43:26.306
ebotacular #? Lancia Delta Integrale EVO 43:42.720
Tiresias Mons #? BMW E28 M5 45:29.496
CommunistCows #? BMW E30 M3 46:23.676
DLVR80R #? Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R DNF
For those that couldnt make it that was one hell of a close race. Knight, myself, Eclibull, Keml0 and Stew all traded positions for the top 5 so many times I couldn't count. I think each of us led at least one whole lap at one point. Then on lap 20 I made the mistake where instead of saying "this is one hell of a close race" I said "this is going to be one hell of a close finish" and jinxed myself since 5 seconds later I impaled myself onto the end of the pit entrance wall. Even with the resulting pit stop I only finished 63 seconds behind the winner. These are going to be some hotly contested races this season.
I'll post more later tonight (updated rules and car list and lobby settings)
That said, I'll also admit there is a burning curiosity in me to see how my hot lap time might have compared to those positioning ones. Ho-hum ...
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Steam: Kemlo
Only 4 minutes behind the leader? AWESOME.
btw I've taken #74.
Edit: Thanks Stew, I'll go use the telemetry screen and try and use that for some tuning.
That said, I played about with Forza last night (and grabbed the last two car packs I didn't have), and I'm going to struggle. I've been playing F1 2012, and playing Forza last night I killed a number of engines because of quick downshifts. Seriously need some practice.
I think I like Road Atlanta a lot more than I used to, it's a fun course.
hxxp://firstrow1.eu/watch/165535/1/watch-rolex-sports-car-series-racing-:-24-hours-at-daytona.html
Adjustable aero isn't allowed, per the rules.
I'll try to run some Atlanta later if I get a chance and see what kind of times my Lancia is looking at. Also need to fix my gearing for Atlanta I think.
Guess I can sell all my peripherals and games, then.
That sucks.
I need an extra controller if you are willing to ship stuff.
_____________________
So can I get some official or unanimous decision on getting a PI handicap? I was hoping to do maybe A550 in my Lancia(I dropped the idea of driving the m3) with the caveat that if I start actually getting out of last place I'll remove the handicap and go back down to A530. Does that sound reasonable?
Personally I don't care. For a real ruling you'd have to get Bast's approval, but I'd be fine with it.
Also someone else should do laps on Road Atlanta (Stew/Eclibull) so I can see how much I have to curse AWD this go round.