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[Half-Life] End of an Era

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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    I actually would want Half Life 3 to take the story in a different direction, like Half Life 2 did with Half Life 1. I kind of dislike that people treat Half Life 2's story like it is the only thing that exists and ignore Half Life 1 entirely.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    The thing is they're not done with HL2's story.

    It'd be like if HL1 ended with Gordon jumping into the portal to Xen; you'd be wondering what the hell happened to the rest of the game and be super lost without the transition via the Gman.

    They've basically written themselves into a corner by designing the story around episodes but then not following through, leaving an orphaned chunk of story they have to do something with before they can move on to awesome new stuff.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    The thing is they're not done with HL2's story.

    It'd be like if HL1 ended with Gordon jumping into the portal to Xen; you'd be wondering what the hell happened to the rest of the game and be super lost without the transition via the Gman.

    They've basically written themselves into a corner by designing the story around episodes but then not following through, leaving an orphaned chunk of story they have to do something with before they can move on to awesome new stuff.

    Yeah I think they've stretched the Half Life 2 stuff out too far. Hopefully they can clear up the cliff hanger and move on quickly.

    You know, when it happens.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    I'd be surprised if Brad Muir isn't working on Dota 2. Dude is a systems guy and made Massive Chalice and Iron Brigade previously, and is a Dota superfan.

    august on
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I still find it weird that Valve made Dota 2.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I still find it weird that Valve made Dota 2.

    A lot of Valve were huge fans of the War3 mod.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I do get the sense that valve doesn't want to release another Half-Life unless they're sure they can "wow" everyone with some new technology or mode of storytelling.

    Which would be fine and all if they hadn't ended Episode 2 on such a goddamn cliffhanger.

    This is basically how I feel. Valve doesn't "owe" anybody Half Life 3, but it feels pretty shitty that they spent three games doing their best to make the players form an emotional attachment to their characters only to end with that brick to the face at the end of Episode 2 and then not provide any closure for eight years and counting.

    In a lot of ways I think Valve and Epic are in the same boat. They haven't released a game in their flagship franchise in almost a decade (the last Unreal game was UT3 in 2007) because they've been focusing on a side thing that eventually went on to be their primary income source (for Valve this was Steam, for Epic this was Unreal Engine licensing). If Steam had never been released (or had fizzled out) I'm sure we would have seen at least two more Half Life games by now.

    Valve definitely doesn't owe anyone Half-Life 3--though I'd have no problem pointing to them evangelizing the gospel of episodic game, putting their most popular franchise front and center for it, and then realizing "Holy shit, we really don't like doing this, why did we insist we were committed to this?" and then laughing at them. It's funny when corporations do funny things.

    The expectations for Half-Life 3 would be enormous (in no small part because of Valve's reputation and their handling of the franchise). I can't blame them for not wanting to do it. No one can blame me for laughing at their own embarrassing foray into episodic gaming, though it's clear that it gave us two very good episodes and led to a model other companies actually did, you know, right.

    I think there is a shared pathway between Epic and Valve as technology (and in Valve's case, distribution) companies--though I think if Steam had never gotten better, and persisted as the shitty-to-mediocre product it started out as ("fizzled out"), I don't know if we would've seen Half-Life 3 or more. I feel like that franchise specifically was predicated on leveraging the clout available to Valve through that, and we would have gotten a new franchise instead.

    It's all speculative. The thought of Half-Life 3 by itself drives passions you either get or you don't. I'm one of the later--it's sad we're not getting it, but I'm just as sad I'll never get a Little Big Adventure 3 or a Beyond Good and Evil 2 (and Half-Life still got way more follow-up sequels than either of those games did). It's become almost religious in its significance. I think Valve realizes that, and the idea that they couldn't live up to it scares the hell out of them.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Thanks for reminding me about BG&E2... :sad:

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Thanks for reminding me about BG&E2... :sad:

    Life is sadness.

    The fact that I'm probably the only one who cares about Little Big Adventure 3 (or Relentless 3) just minds me of that.

  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    https://rockpapershotgun.com/2016/01/15/half-life-2-add-on/
    ...Prospekt, a fan-made Half-Life 2 campaign which picks up the abandoned story of Half-Life: Opposing Force protagonist Adrian Shepherd – and has been given Valve’s blessing to be sold on Steam next month.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Very cool. Remind me of an expansion idea I had back in like 2005 where a third party starts interfering with the Human rebellion against the combine (Maybe Race-X?) and so the Gman brings Shepherd back to deal with it. Only as a twist, he sends you through a conversion facility first, turning you into an Combine Soldier. (Thus allowing you to command other Combine against the new threat).

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Black Mesa Main Client Patch - 0.2.1

    We've released a patch to Black Mesa main client

    + Fixed bouncing Bolts from the crossbow in MP
    + Fixed a bug in the balanced spawn system
    + Fixed Shotgun Collision model
    + Fixed various spelling errors and missing .wav files in dialouges.
    + Fixed the Crossbows lighting origin
    + RPG rocket won't clip with the rocket when reloading.
    + Dr. Kleiners head and hands are now properly smooth (smoooooth as jazz)
    + Fixed blood not splattering on the MP5
    + Fixed the where placing 11 satchels crashed the MP server
    + Crossfire Optimization increased - will run much smoother now.
    + Added muzzle flash dynamic light checkbox to options menu.
    + Added godrays enable checkbox to the options menu
    + Minor optimizations made to netcode.
    + Fixed 'FIX IT DENIZ' skin on monitor in UC.
    + Fixed game_round_win Entity to actually win rounds.
    + Polished the workshop tool. (There are still some things that need to be fixed, and will be fixed in upcoming patches). All workshop content and addons will now be read from the SteamApps/Workshop/Content/362890 folder, instead of the previously used black_mesa/addons folder.

    This update may corrupt and break save files. If you're experience any issues with old loads, please restart the game at the start of that chapter. You can do that by clicking "New Game" on the main menu, and picking the latest chapter you were on.

    Additionally, if you are experiencing issues with missing models or textures in-game, you have a legacy error with mods. If you have subscribed to any mods since launch and are experiencing these issues please do the following steps to fix the issue.
    1. Unsubscribe from all Black Mesa mods
    2. Go to ***\SteamApps\workshop\content\362890 (where *** is the location to where your steam games may be)
    3. Delete all folders within this folder
    4. Launch Black Mesa, and you should be good to go.
    Once you do this, you should be able to re-subscribe to any and all mods that you want.

    Not sure which mod to download first? Why not try On a Rail Uncut - now officially released on the Steam Workshop.​

    - ːvortː

    (Edit: it is known that the "Workshop Addon" button does not work in the Main Menu. It will be fixed in a subsequent patch)

  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Thanks for reminding me about BG&E2... :sad:

    Life is sadness.

    The fact that I'm probably the only one who cares about Little Big Adventure 3 (or Relentless 3) just minds me of that.

    Lies!

    You know when you're reading a forum and something posted causes all these memories from long ago, half forgotten, to flash before you?

    Yeah, you just did that.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Yep. Blowing up the helicopter in Surface Tension is still pretty satisfying.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Animator Doug Wood is retiring soon as well.
    After almost 19 years at Valve I've decided to retire. I want to spend more time with my kid (whether he wants me to or not), and do more travelling.

    Valve has been such an amazing part of my life. I can't believe how fortunate I am to have been able to work alongside some of the greatest designers, animators, and programmers out there.

    Seems like just yesterday I started animating headcrabs jumping on scientists in Half-Life 1. I still dream about those little guys...

    Two's a coincidence, I wonder if we'll see a trend, and what that means for Valve.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    The dream is so over

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    LaCabra wrote: »
    The dream is so over

    Or we'll get a bunch of young buck "I played Half-Life when I was a kid" employees taking over and they'll actually put something out.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    LaCabra wrote: »
    The dream is so over

    Or we'll get a bunch of young buck "I played Half-Life when I was a kid" employees taking over and they'll actually put something out.

    I hope not. We don't need Valve to become the next id.

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    No one else will retire, because VALVe can't count to three, you know.

    sig.gif
  • LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    My fave Valve thing in recent years is at Dev Days when Gabe said he'd take three questions but then left after two

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Artist and Animator Ted Backman left back in Summer 2015 too. I totally forgot. Another longtime Valve employee.

  • JobsJobs Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Laidlaw leaving felt like the final nail in the coffin to me, unless they announce HL3 relatively soon. My understanding is his writing process worked directly alongside development of HL1 and 2, that he basically had to be there with the team until they finished. The franchise is his baby as much as it is Newell's, so either he finished it or it's never going to be finished. It's this year or bust, someone else coming in and writing it would feel wrong and I can't see Laidlaw leaving unless something definitive happened regarding the franchise; as in, the game is done or Newell told him directly it's never going to happen.

    Jobs on
  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    So when everyone got mad at The Know/Funhaus for daring to give out the news that Valve weren't working on Half-Life 3...

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  • LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    Making shit up isn't "daring to give out the news" even if you turn out to be right :P

  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    LaCabra wrote: »
    Making shit up isn't "daring to give out the news" even if you turn out to be right :P

    They... didn't. They did their journalistic job and validated their sources, who turned out to be right. The point of that is that the credibility for it is on their shoulders, since they can't tell you who the source is. If it's a bad story, they take the hit. If it turns out to be right, like this, then they earn some trust.

    forumsig.png
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I'm...generally okay with Half-Life sort of vanishing into obscurity on its own terms. The two games were amazing accomplishments, and I have to say that I'm doubtful that, in a narrative sense, they have the means to resolve the story, unless this is the resolution-Earth has successfully cauterized the connection between it and the Combine, and now, the Combine forces stranded on Earth will gradually be overcome and humanity will shakily restore civilization, and Gordon Freeman is free from his handler to live out his days helping rebuild the Earth.

    Also, I've begun feeling like every good original title only should really need one sequel, and, if possible, it would be better for developers to blank slate it after that, take what they learned, and do something else. Apart from culling franchise infestation, restricting games this way would do well to put more emphasis on the human creators responsible for them over the assembly system that maintains a storyline in bloated homeostasis (Looking at you, Assassin's Creed)

    That said, if in, say, 2019, we end up getting a third Half-Life game, I'll be down with that too, assuming it's not some kind of multiplayer focused stat-farming overworld about exotic gear or whatever.

  • JobsJobs Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I'd love a third game, but Valve can do whatever it wants. The only way I feel jipped as a fan is in Ep. 2 ending at a complete cliffhanger. The series will be forever unfinished if there's never even so much as a novel telling the rest of the story, and Valve refusing to come out and say they never intend on making another HL game feels kind of like a cowardly attempt at saving face with their fanbase, not to mention making it impossible for Marc Laidlaw to ever legally give any kind of resolution via written word.

    Jobs on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    The lack of a proper ending to the story is the thing that keeps me interested in every last shred of potential information.

    Silly as it might sound, even if they didn't make a game, it'd be nice to have something to call a finale. A novel, a short film (cgi or otherwise), something that concludes the tale.

    I know that many would consider this a half-assed attempt, or a 'slap in the face' or whatever, but if Valve isn't willing or able (for whatever reasons) to release the final part, I'd like to know how things were at least intended to resolve (assuming that over the years there's at least some idea they'd be willing to embrace as The End).

    It's like a show that got cut short before its time, and having watched Firefly fans hope and beg for nearly a decade and a half, I can empathize with those clinging to that dream.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Yup, pretty much any remaining interest I have in Half-Life is powered by the incredible performances at the end of Episode 2. Alyx's crying is still very much a vivid memory for me even after all these years.

    Robert Guillaume and Merle Dandbridge sincerely deserve some sort of award for VO acting for their performances.

    steam_sig.png
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Jobs wrote: »
    Laidlaw leaving felt like the final nail in the coffin to me, unless they announce HL3 relatively soon. My understanding is his writing process worked directly alongside development of HL1 and 2, that he basically had to be there with the team until they finished. The franchise is his baby as much as it is Newell's, so either he finished it or it's never going to be finished. It's this year or bust, someone else coming in and writing it would feel wrong and I can't see Laidlaw leaving unless something definitive happened regarding the franchise; as in, the game is done or Newell told him directly it's never going to happen.

    Valve has other writers. Laidlaw isn't even the only writer on the Half-Life series as of the episodes.
    darleysam wrote: »
    So when everyone got mad at The Know/Funhaus for daring to give out the news that Valve weren't working on Half-Life 3...

    Laidlaw said a bunch of stuff they said was wrong, so they implied their Awesome Inside Source knew more about the inner workings at Valve than the man who had been there for over 18 years. That's sketchy enough for me, IMO.
    darleysam wrote: »
    LaCabra wrote: »
    Making shit up isn't "daring to give out the news" even if you turn out to be right :P

    They... didn't. They did their journalistic job and validated their sources, who turned out to be right. The point of that is that the credibility for it is on their shoulders, since they can't tell you who the source is. If it's a bad story, they take the hit. If it turns out to be right, like this, then they earn some trust.

    Firstly, nothing is confirmed. Valve is a large company who has been actively hiring game developers as recent as last December (Brad Muir). Having people who have been at the company for nearly 20 years retiring isn't equivalent to "Valve's Management (Which they totally have now because Valve has changed, man) is trying to kill Half-Life 3!" Hell, according to their own story, Laidlaw already finished the story outline, so him retiring doesn't even really play into the interpretation they tried to sell.

    Secondly, like all good rumors, they couched what they said in outs. HL3 isn't canceled, its team size has just been reduced! It's not coming out any time soon, but the script is done! They can totally worm their way out of culpability if HL3 gets announced a few years from now. All they had to do is gamble that Valve wouldn't announce anything anytime soon (which, let's be honest, is a safe bet) and they're golden.
    Jobs wrote: »
    I'd love a third game, but Valve can do whatever it wants. The only way I feel jipped as a fan is in Ep. 2 ending at a complete cliffhanger. The series will be forever unfinished if there's never even so much as a novel telling the rest of the story, and Valve refusing to come out and say they never intend on making another HL game feels kind of like a cowardly attempt at saving face with their fanbase, not to mention making it impossible for Marc Laidlaw to ever legally give any kind of resolution via written word.

    Even if Valve said they were never making another Half-Life game, that doesn't give Laidlaw the legality to finish it. Also I doubt Valve doesn't intend on making another Half-Life game. That game shows up in engine files a little too often for Valve to have ZERO interest in making it. (Unless you subscribe to the theory that Valve put those there on purpose.)

  • JobsJobs Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    They have other writers but Laidlaw is the one who created these characters, I doubt he made the G-Man without knowing who he actually is and where he ends up for instance. It's certainly possible to finish it without him but not in a way that seems satisfying.

    Jobs on
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Also people do come out of retirement for special projects. Not saying that's even likely here but it does happen.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Jobs wrote: »
    They have other writers but Laidlaw is the one who created these characters, I doubt he made the G-Man without knowing who he actually is and where he ends up for instance. It's certainly possible to finish it without him but not in a way that seems satisfying.

    I'd be surprised if Laidlaw was the only person at Valve who contributed to the Gman's identity, but even if that's not the case, I can't see Laidlaw keeping it secret from everybody. Like, I really doubt he went "Peace Out" and took all his notes with him. Those are most assuredly in the hands of Eric Wolpaw or the like.

    And that's under the assumption that whatever Laidlaw had in mind for the Gman would have made it into the game like that in the first place. (Once upon a time, Breen wasn't the the former Black Mesa administrator, Eli Vance was actually two separate characters and the Combine were enslaving children instead of preventing them from existing.)

  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    So when everyone got mad at The Know/Funhaus for daring to give out the news that Valve weren't working on Half-Life 3...

    Laidlaw said a bunch of stuff they said was wrong, so they implied their Awesome Inside Source knew more about the inner workings at Valve than the man who had been there for over 18 years. That's sketchy enough for me, IMO.
    darleysam wrote: »
    LaCabra wrote: »
    Making shit up isn't "daring to give out the news" even if you turn out to be right :P

    They... didn't. They did their journalistic job and validated their sources, who turned out to be right. The point of that is that the credibility for it is on their shoulders, since they can't tell you who the source is. If it's a bad story, they take the hit. If it turns out to be right, like this, then they earn some trust.

    Firstly, nothing is confirmed. Valve is a large company who has been actively hiring game developers as recent as last December (Brad Muir). Having people who have been at the company for nearly 20 years retiring isn't equivalent to "Valve's Management (Which they totally have now because Valve has changed, man) is trying to kill Half-Life 3!" Hell, according to their own story, Laidlaw already finished the story outline, so him retiring doesn't even really play into the interpretation they tried to sell.

    Secondly, like all good rumors, they couched what they said in outs. HL3 isn't canceled, its team size has just been reduced! It's not coming out any time soon, but the script is done! They can totally worm their way out of culpability if HL3 gets announced a few years from now. All they had to do is gamble that Valve wouldn't announce anything anytime soon (which, let's be honest, is a safe bet) and they're golden.

    Laidlaw said as much as he could say while neither confirming or denying that it's still in development, which has been Valve's only line since forever. Again, when you put out a story like this, it's saying "do you trust us to have done our job to verify these sources", hoping that the passage of time will confirm or deny things. So now we've had a series of events that have apparently been confirmation enough for people in this thread who called it lies, and... it's still a lie apparently. Try watching the podcast I linked where they discuss it further, because it really explains their process and their own feelings on the matter.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    That's totally not what happened with Laidlaw. Laidlaw outright called them out on several discrepancies in their story, and their response was to go "Well, we're both right from a certain point of view" and literally say they trusted their source more than Laidlaw in regards to Valve internal workings.

    And again, people leaving Valve != Valve killing Half-Life 3. It does not mean Valve has been forcing the HL3 team size down. It does not mean they're scared of a Mass Effect 3 style blowback. You could infer that may be happening due to these departures. That's certainly an opinion you can have. It's not, however, a confirmation. Their sources have not "turned out to be right" as it was put.

    Edit: Like, at no point did they predict there would be an exodus of longtime employees from Valve in regards to Half-Life 3's managerial shenanigans. So taking that and going "see, they were right" is kind of bogus.

    EDIT2: Also, this
    So now we've had a series of events that have apparently been confirmation enough for people in this thread who called it lies, and... it's still a lie apparently.

    People? As in plural? I think you over-estimate the number of people who regularly talk about this stuff :biggrin: I think LaCabra is the only person who was negative towards the HL3 expose and is now down on HL3's prospects. (prospekts?)

    Undead Scottsman on
  • LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I guess my post was actually pretty dumb since those guys didn't turn out to be right about anything.

    I guess what I meant was more like, if you make up a bunch of doom and gloom (or someone does in a very obvious way and you cover it), and then later something happens that isn't what you said would happen but is also doomy and gloomy, that's not the same as ya bein right

    There was never any reason to think their source was anything other than one of the several randos a year who pops up anonymously somewhere and claims to have the super secret inside scoop

    Also as Scottsman says, HL-something might still be happening ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    LaCabra on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Oh hey, Prospekt is out in less than 48 hours.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Guys, what if Frog Fractions 2 is Half-Life 3?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Guys, what if Frog Fractions 2 is Half-Life 3?

    A bunch of fans ought to get together and just MAKE Episode 3. Don't call it that, of course, (Gordon's Arctic Adventure, maybe?) but just make their own version of Episode 3 and ask Valve to let them put it up on Steam.

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