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The Prologue from Natural Selection:
Monsters arn't real...Are they?
Outer space. Toxic radiation. Mad scientist's labs. These are the places monsters come from. Or so we've been told...
But arn't dinosaurs, crocodiles, lions and sharks really monsters? Of course they are. And they come from right here on earth, and evolution made every single one of them.
So could evolution make another monster? Today?
It might be difficult for some to picture. Evolution is arguably the most powerful force in the earth's history, but paradoxically, it is also irrevelant to daily human life. Although the expression survival of the fittest is still used colloquially, the literal meaning no longer applies. For the human species, real life-and-death struggles, where the strong survive and the weak perish, have long since vanished.
This is not so in nature. Nature is an entirely differant world, where there are no easy meals. When an animal in the wild is hungry, it must find, catch and kill its prey, or risk dying itself. This harsh and brutal reality plays out daily, and evolutionary adaptations are a natual result. In just the past hundred years, literally thousands of such adaptations have been recorded: house finches in the Galapagos growing longer beaks, army ants in Brazil doubling their body size, blind gourami fish adapting "feeler fins" in place of eyes, just to name a few.
But these are all examples of minor evolutionary change. What about major change? Or even spectacular change? Will we ever see a true "evolutionary leap", the equivalent of say, the very first amphibian to crawl out of the ocean or the first tiny dinosaur to fly like a bird?
We will indeed. Only this time, the evolving species won't be a salamander or a bird. It will be a predator. In fact, it will be a phenomenally dangerous predator unlike any ever known. Previously, the species' entire existence was confined to the one place on earth still inaccessible by humans. But now a cataclysmic series of events is under way. One that will force the species out of its world and into ours for a violent first encounter.
The adaptive process is gradual and only a single animal, or perhaps a small cluster, will intially make the transition. Others might follow, but in the short term, human society will barely be affected.
Soon, a small group of men and women will come face-to-face with a living nightmare. And then, even the skeptics among them will realise not only that monsters are real, but that evolution has just made the most terrifying of all.
So, four hundred and eleven pages of small print about a team of scientists fighting evolution, written by a man with a disinterested and feeble grasp of science and/or evolution.
Hobnail on
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I think Firefly is a really bad show. Badly written, poorly acted and with shit worldbuilding that doesn't make any fucking sense considering the sort of semi-realistic feel it seems like they were going for.
The only positive thing I have to say about it is that some of the ship designs are kinda neat and the effects aren't terrible.
I would be interested in knowing more about what doesn't make sense about the world building. Ive never heard that concern.
The setting feels like a poorly sewn-together Frankenstein. I like sci-fi stuff. I like westerns. I like space westerns! As in, I like when sci-fi stories take story elements and themes from westerns and update them and transplant them in a sci-fi setting.
Firefly is literally just cowboys in space. Old-timey cowboys with horses and spacefuture sixguns and hats and so on. Literally taking the stereotypical western aesthetic and putting in some spaceships here and there. It's lazy and jarring.
The way language is used is fucking terrible. They talk english, but sometimes they say something in bad Chinese, because this is the future and America and China had space babies, pretty much! Because that's how language works, right? Right? Guys? (no it is not how language works at all)
I don't buy the layout of the solar system (or systems?) this takes place in. I don't think anything like it is known to science, and the show at least pretends to be not super outlandish in terms of which liberties it takes with science. I also don't buy that they have the technology to terraform about a hundred planets yet they can't fix a heavily polluted earth.
There were barely any loanwords. It was mostly just english, and occasionalyl someone would slip into pure (bad) chinese. And only for swearing.
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
It's not how language evolves, especially not in a setting where, allegedly, China and the US have merged into some kind of single entity. You'd get loan words that are more than just swears. You'd have chinese verbs and nouns and stuff peppering the language, too.
But nope, just swears. Or phrases.
There's no mix of languages. People just use two languages separately in Firefly and they arbitrarily switch between the two.
But only for swearing.
Dutch is constantly evolving. Rapidly, even. It's changed significantly since I was born. I have seen how language changes first-hand.
Firefly's way of dealing with language is completely unbelievable to me.
0
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
There were barely any loanwords. It was mostly just english, and occasionalyl someone would slip into pure (bad) chinese. And only for swearing.
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
What I find fascinating here is that Firefly actually took the time to consider people might still speak other languages/have other cultures and brought that in, which I always thought was one of the better elements of the show considering most sci fi shows pretty much are all culturally identical to the US at the time of their creation.
The fact that there wasn't enough Chinese in the show boggles my mind as a critique.
0
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
There were barely any loanwords. It was mostly just english, and occasionalyl someone would slip into pure (bad) chinese. And only for swearing.
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
What I find fascinating here is that Firefly actually took the time to consider people might still speak other languages/have other cultures and brought that in, which I always thought was one of the better elements of the show considering most sci fi shows pretty much are all culturally identical to the US at the time of their creation.
The fact that there wasn't enough Chinese in the show boggles my mind as a critique.
It's the fact that they took the time to consider that language may have changed but then didn't fucking bother at all figuring out how it might have changed that bothers me.
They acknowledged that yeah! Language changes over time!
And that was enough for them. That's where they stopped. How does it change over time? Ahhhh, fuck it who cares, let's just throw a bunch of swears in there and call it a day.
There were barely any loanwords. It was mostly just english, and occasionalyl someone would slip into pure (bad) chinese. And only for swearing.
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
What I find fascinating here is that Firefly actually took the time to consider people might still speak other languages/have other cultures and brought that in, which I always thought was one of the better elements of the show considering most sci fi shows pretty much are all culturally identical to the US at the time of their creation.
The fact that there wasn't enough Chinese in the show boggles my mind as a critique.
it is a good thing it was thought of, but it was still implemented pretty poorly
they didn't think about it in as much depth as they should have, I guess
There were barely any loanwords. It was mostly just english, and occasionalyl someone would slip into pure (bad) chinese. And only for swearing.
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
It's not how language evolves, especially not in a setting where, allegedly, China and the US have merged into some kind of single entity. You'd get loan words that are more than just swears. You'd have chinese verbs and nouns and stuff peppering the language, too.
But nope, just swears. Or phrases.
There's no mix of languages. People just use two languages separately in Firefly and they arbitrarily switch between the two.
But only for swearing.
Dutch is constantly evolving. Rapidly, even. It's changed significantly since I was born. I have seen how language changes first-hand.
Firefly's way of dealing with language is completely unbelievable to me.
Wasn't the reason that some people refused to speak Chinese but the swears just caught on?
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Really do not get why only curses would be taken when fuck is perfectly useful in every situation
TLB, was your main problem with Firefly the lack of linguistic realism?
My main complaint isn't the language bit. That's just the one Quetzi asked about, so I answered.
My main complaint is that the characters are contrived as fuck and pretty much every aspect of the setting rubs against my sense of aesthetics like ground glass.
0
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Spex, how would you be able to watch that show if the language was done that way? I'm pretty sure the 2002 Fox Primetime audience lacked sufficient basic Mandarin to accomplish that.
Hamfisted and poorly cast I can get. It was far from a perfect show and was canceled because of it, but being disgruntled about the language would mean you couldn't watch any historical shows without them speaking only the native tongue of the day, and having all futuristic shows being spoken in incomprehensible garble. It's just not practical to a target audience that barely speaks their own language correctly.
Spex, how would you be able to watch that show if the language was done that way? I'm pretty sure the 2002 Fox Primetime audience lacked sufficient basic Mandarin to accomplish that.
Hamfisted and poorly cast I can get. It was far from a perfect show and was canceled because of it, but being disgruntled about the language would mean you couldn't watch any historical shows without them speaking only the native tongue of the day, and having all futuristic shows being spoken in incomprehensible garble. It's just not practical.
TLB, was your main problem with Firefly the lack of linguistic realism?
i watched an episode where they were gonna attack a train or something
and then there was a barfight
and he said "a grand entrance would not go amiss" in a walkie talkie or whatever, something along those lines
and it was just nobody talks like this and i am bored during a barfight and mad at someone who started a barfight this is the exact opposite feeling I should have during a wild west barfight
Spex, how would you be able to watch that show if the language was done that way? I'm pretty sure the 2002 Fox Primetime audience lacked sufficient basic Mandarin to accomplish that.
Hamfisted and poorly cast I can get. It was far from a perfect show and was canceled because of it, but being disgruntled about the language would mean you couldn't watch any historical shows without them speaking only the native tongue of the day, and having all futuristic shows being spoken in incomprehensible garble. It's just not practical to a target audience that barely speaks their own language correctly.
I would be able to watch that show because context is important. It's not hard to understand, say, A Clockwork Orange because the context makes it clear what Alex is talking about, for instance.
If you're going to do a show where you make a point of focusing on the fact that language changes over the years, you should fucking commit to that and not half-ass it.
Spex I'm gonna give you credit in that what you have there is a rather well spoken opinion. You're able to say generally what it is about the show you don't like, and what makes it less enjoyable for you.
That being said, lol writing "I hate (something made by Joss Whedon)" on the internet. Good luck with that.
Spex, how would you be able to watch that show if the language was done that way? I'm pretty sure the 2002 Fox Primetime audience lacked sufficient basic Mandarin to accomplish that.
Hamfisted and poorly cast I can get. It was far from a perfect show and was canceled because of it, but being disgruntled about the language would mean you couldn't watch any historical shows without them speaking only the native tongue of the day, and having all futuristic shows being spoken in incomprehensible garble. It's just not practical.
Sub...titles?
Subtitles are incredibly poorly received by the average TV audience, which is why most foreign films are never shown on primetime or basic cable. Most television viewers do not want to have to read at the simultaneously as they are watching, especially when turning your head or looking away for a moment can prove prohibitive to following the plot.
Spex I'm gonna give you credit in that what you have there is a rather well spoken opinion. You're able to say generally what it is about the show you don't like, and what makes it less enjoyable for you.
That being said, lol writing "I hate (something made by Joss Whedon)" on the internet. Good luck with that.
I hate Alien: Resurrection. There you go.
I think you were supposed to. Except for Super Ripley, it was pretty much 100% terrible.
0
BusterKNegativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered Userregular
I have not liked anything Joss Whedon has written besides The Avengers and Toy Story I guess
Everybody sounds like one guy who thinks he's the most intelligent man on earth
Actually Dollhouse didn't suffer from that
It was just boring as shit
I have not liked anything Joss Whedon has written besides The Avengers and Toy Story I guess
Everybody sounds like one guy who thinks he's the most intelligent man on earth
Actually Dollhouse didn't suffer from that
It was just boring as shit
well
he also story edited roseanne
but nobody wants to talk about how radical roseanne was before she got too much power and won the lottery and kissed lesbians
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I have not liked anything Joss Whedon has written besides The Avengers and Toy Story I guess
Everybody sounds like one guy who thinks he's the most intelligent man on earth
Actually Dollhouse didn't suffer from that
It was just boring as shit
same
and apparently his role in Toy Story's writing was pretty minor
Posts
Loanwords aren't how language works?
Wow, looks like Whedon made a serious faux pas there.
Monsters arn't real...Are they?
Outer space. Toxic radiation. Mad scientist's labs. These are the places monsters come from. Or so we've been told...
But arn't dinosaurs, crocodiles, lions and sharks really monsters? Of course they are. And they come from right here on earth, and evolution made every single one of them.
So could evolution make another monster? Today?
It might be difficult for some to picture. Evolution is arguably the most powerful force in the earth's history, but paradoxically, it is also irrevelant to daily human life. Although the expression survival of the fittest is still used colloquially, the literal meaning no longer applies. For the human species, real life-and-death struggles, where the strong survive and the weak perish, have long since vanished.
This is not so in nature. Nature is an entirely differant world, where there are no easy meals. When an animal in the wild is hungry, it must find, catch and kill its prey, or risk dying itself. This harsh and brutal reality plays out daily, and evolutionary adaptations are a natual result. In just the past hundred years, literally thousands of such adaptations have been recorded: house finches in the Galapagos growing longer beaks, army ants in Brazil doubling their body size, blind gourami fish adapting "feeler fins" in place of eyes, just to name a few.
But these are all examples of minor evolutionary change. What about major change? Or even spectacular change? Will we ever see a true "evolutionary leap", the equivalent of say, the very first amphibian to crawl out of the ocean or the first tiny dinosaur to fly like a bird?
We will indeed. Only this time, the evolving species won't be a salamander or a bird. It will be a predator. In fact, it will be a phenomenally dangerous predator unlike any ever known. Previously, the species' entire existence was confined to the one place on earth still inaccessible by humans. But now a cataclysmic series of events is under way. One that will force the species out of its world and into ours for a violent first encounter.
The adaptive process is gradual and only a single animal, or perhaps a small cluster, will intially make the transition. Others might follow, but in the short term, human society will barely be affected.
Soon, a small group of men and women will come face-to-face with a living nightmare. And then, even the skeptics among them will realise not only that monsters are real, but that evolution has just made the most terrifying of all.
So, four hundred and eleven pages of small print about a team of scientists fighting evolution, written by a man with a disinterested and feeble grasp of science and/or evolution.
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
I just don't see why this is a problem. It is using occasional foreign words.
Like, I have my own problems with Firefly, which I won't bother to get into, but this just seems incomprehensible to me.
I will allow it.
Your mind is a strange and magical place to me.
they were saving them for season 2 but YOU RUINED IT
i, like most of america, felt that was enough of it
It's not how language evolves, especially not in a setting where, allegedly, China and the US have merged into some kind of single entity. You'd get loan words that are more than just swears. You'd have chinese verbs and nouns and stuff peppering the language, too.
But nope, just swears. Or phrases.
There's no mix of languages. People just use two languages separately in Firefly and they arbitrarily switch between the two.
But only for swearing.
Dutch is constantly evolving. Rapidly, even. It's changed significantly since I was born. I have seen how language changes first-hand.
Firefly's way of dealing with language is completely unbelievable to me.
What I find fascinating here is that Firefly actually took the time to consider people might still speak other languages/have other cultures and brought that in, which I always thought was one of the better elements of the show considering most sci fi shows pretty much are all culturally identical to the US at the time of their creation.
The fact that there wasn't enough Chinese in the show boggles my mind as a critique.
Maybe they were all killed.
Like, in a war. The one where English speaking people took over the planet.
That's probably where the loanwords came from even. It's a pretty common thing in combat.
It's the fact that they took the time to consider that language may have changed but then didn't fucking bother at all figuring out how it might have changed that bothers me.
They acknowledged that yeah! Language changes over time!
And that was enough for them. That's where they stopped. How does it change over time? Ahhhh, fuck it who cares, let's just throw a bunch of swears in there and call it a day.
it is a good thing it was thought of, but it was still implemented pretty poorly
they didn't think about it in as much depth as they should have, I guess
Steam
Wasn't the reason that some people refused to speak Chinese but the swears just caught on?
Steam
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
seriously, english has the best swears
Steam
My main complaint isn't the language bit. That's just the one Quetzi asked about, so I answered.
My main complaint is that the characters are contrived as fuck and pretty much every aspect of the setting rubs against my sense of aesthetics like ground glass.
Hamfisted and poorly cast I can get. It was far from a perfect show and was canceled because of it, but being disgruntled about the language would mean you couldn't watch any historical shows without them speaking only the native tongue of the day, and having all futuristic shows being spoken in incomprehensible garble. It's just not practical to a target audience that barely speaks their own language correctly.
Not entirely sure why it would come up in a worst-of-fiction discussion unless you've been incredibly fortunate in your entertainment choices.
Sub...titles?
and that's awful
Steam
i watched an episode where they were gonna attack a train or something
and then there was a barfight
and he said "a grand entrance would not go amiss" in a walkie talkie or whatever, something along those lines
and it was just nobody talks like this and i am bored during a barfight and mad at someone who started a barfight this is the exact opposite feeling I should have during a wild west barfight
and there were planets in the background?
point is, i hated it.
I would be able to watch that show because context is important. It's not hard to understand, say, A Clockwork Orange because the context makes it clear what Alex is talking about, for instance.
If you're going to do a show where you make a point of focusing on the fact that language changes over the years, you should fucking commit to that and not half-ass it.
I hate Alien: Resurrection. There you go.
Subtitles are incredibly poorly received by the average TV audience, which is why most foreign films are never shown on primetime or basic cable. Most television viewers do not want to have to read at the simultaneously as they are watching, especially when turning your head or looking away for a moment can prove prohibitive to following the plot.
i wanna talk about
I think you were supposed to. Except for Super Ripley, it was pretty much 100% terrible.
Everybody sounds like one guy who thinks he's the most intelligent man on earth
Actually Dollhouse didn't suffer from that
It was just boring as shit
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
Best book of bad one-liners and forced steampunk nonsensical plots ever.
To this day I can't decide if it was the best or worst thing I ever read.
why would you even post that
well
he also story edited roseanne
but nobody wants to talk about how radical roseanne was before she got too much power and won the lottery and kissed lesbians
same
and apparently his role in Toy Story's writing was pretty minor
that's about it
why you hating on things?
what you posted was a brain crime
my brain has been money laundered or whatever
this is supposed to be about worst fiction that was something so much else
it was too much is what i am saying
Oh man, this book was awful. I did like the mesoamerican cave-god bits, though!