Speaking of fun strength heroes that hurt pretty badly without items: Sven.
I love Sven so much nowadays. Yeah, he's got mobility problems, but all you really need to solve that is one teammate with a decent speedbooster/initiation. The only items I ever really feel like I need on Sven are a BKB and an Armlet, and the Armlet is only because it's already gold efficient as hell and is even moreso when the strength damage bonus is massively increased. He's just such an absurdly good counter to squishy mages and carries because if he gets into range to fight, he's pretty much going to win, especially because in big fights he can just ignore heroes with dodges/who try to slink off with shadowblade by smacking something else, especially if that something else is a low armor caster.
I also like that, even though I really absolutely adore BKB and Armlet, there are so many good things you can pick up on him; Drum of Endurance, Blink Dagger, Mask of Madness (if you've got a really stun heavy team and a lot of confidence), lategame Daed, a Halberd for even more anti-carry fun... he just feels solid enough on his own that you can pick which niche you want to put him into. You can make him into an initiating support with some decent damage on his own with BD and Drums, you can make him a pure anti-squishy force with BKB/Halberd, or you can build him as a source of absurd DPS if you can rely on your team to let you bash people.
I ate an engineer
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2012
Nope, I don't level burning spear until 22. The two unique attack modifiers overlap.
Nope, I don't level burning spear until 22. The two unique attack modifiers overlap.
you don't level it or you don't get it at all til 22
cause in lane burning spears is amazing harass because you can orb walk
and just because the attack modifiers overlap doesn't mean it's bad together, you can basically use this to "choose" whether you want to lifesteal with a particular attack or put a dot on them
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Nope, I don't level burning spear until 22. The two unique attack modifiers overlap.
you don't level it or you don't get it at all til 22
cause in lane burning spears is amazing harass because you can orb walk
and just because the attack modifiers overlap doesn't mean it's bad together, you can basically use this to "choose" whether you want to lifesteal with a particular attack or put a dot on them
Yea, basically I throw fire if I'm not being focused at the moment, lifesteal when shit gets scary.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2012
I didn't come up with the no spear Huskar build. I watched someone significantly better than me use it to great effect as a mid Huskar. So you can call it tomfoolery or whatever, but my ridiculous K: D ratio with it is fine for me...and against certain heroes I will get a point of Burning Spear early, against others that I can just bully out of lane completely at level 6, I'll skip it for stats.
700+ games in, finally started getting solo-queued into the high skill tier. I must be getting better, which is nice to know. Wish I could see my hidden rating. tiers are sort of silly
You are probably rated as epic pooper and misses queues whilst pooping.
Also we tried doing reverse captain's mode inhouse but I don't think everyone liked it. I'd be up for doing it again.
The problem was that one team knew what they were doing with the picks and gave us nothing but weak supports, while we gave them a perfectly normal lineup with very good team composition. I just think we will have to be more careful about who is the captain next time.
You are probably rated as epic pooper and misses queues whilst pooping.
Also we tried doing reverse captain's mode inhouse but I don't think everyone liked it. I'd be up for doing it again.
The problem was that one team knew what they were doing with the picks and gave us nothing but weak supports, while we gave them a perfectly normal lineup with very good team composition. I just think we will have to be more careful about who is the captain next time.
You are probably rated as epic pooper and misses queues whilst pooping.
Also we tried doing reverse captain's mode inhouse but I don't think everyone liked it. I'd be up for doing it again.
The problem was that one team knew what they were doing with the picks and gave us nothing but weak supports, while we gave them a perfectly normal lineup with very good team composition. I just think we will have to be more careful about who is the captain next time.
I was so mad!
Wait wait wait...why in the hell would anyone play reverse captain mode and not load the other team up with shit? I mean..you're expecting the other team to do it to you, so....
As an aside, I'm coming around on Pugna, he just might be secret good.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
How does the MMR calculator in this game work? Does it take only your win-loss into account, or does it take into account how well you performed in a loss or a win?
Is it as simple as wins increase your mmr, losses decrease it, and if you win more than you lose, your mmr rises?
Because that works in SC2, but in Dota that sounds like a fucking stupid system.
Rating systems for individual players when the only data you can really get is from games where they're playing with 4 other (different every time) people are always going to be less than great.
Say your lineup is currently Drow, Queen of Pain, Chen and Crystal Maiden.
You're CM. What you don't know is the player who hasn't picked yet is Drow's friend and they're going to pick Dazzle and go straight to safe lane with their buddy.
So, are you going to go to hardlane alone as CM ? Yes, no? Doesn't matter, you're not getting any meaningful experience if you go there and will probably just get zoned by a support with half a clue.
Probably killed a bunch of times unless you just sit at the tower, still probably killed there when they arrive at level 4 when you're still 1.
If you go to try and get XP from pulling and sacrificing the lane entirely the enemy carry is still going to get free farm except now your team is probably going to yell at you.
As the universal punching bag that is CM your scoreline with surely reflect your skill.
In game scenarios are incredibly complicated and it is difficult to extract any meaningful information beyond "This team as a whole was worse/better than the other".
I'm pretty sold on the notion of anything but -cm being essentially fucked, -cm pub is also almost universally terrible.
Pretty sure for a number of reasons the only effective way to get an MMR or whatever ranking for DotA would be to go purely based on W/L, regardless of whatever metric they use to display "how skilled" you are with certain heroes relative to your MMR.
Then again, the reasoning for having it purely based on W/L was reasoning I remember hearing about from League, so there's probably opposition to that on principle.
I feel more if there is any other proposed metric, it will have a way someone can abuse it to gain more rating, stop someone else from getting rating and so on.
You'd also have people getting way more pissed off for people doing things that stop them gaining more rating.
stimtokolos on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
this is what you call one-sided
i am a sick support cm
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
some of the item renaming bothers me
Like, Daedalus is a cool name, but Buriza do Kyanon is way cooler
My first interaction with the old name was hearing a caster say something like "Looks like Drow's got Buriza from that fight". I thought he was talking about an STD or something.
so how do you counter ds "suicide lane"? cause it seemed more like ds freefarm a 15 min pipe lane. shell destroys any melee heroes, pushes the tower into lane so you cant stack and pull, and surge makes him fuckin ungankable
also cm is a pretty great mode. people really know how to play. solid picks and lanes and smoke ganks, wards and counterwards and gems and trilanes. its madness! a far cry from the typical -ap 5 melee carry pubfest
valiance on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I've gone through and forced myself to learn some of the older names, like Lothar's for Shadow Blade, Naix for Life Stealer et al. This is the first time I've ever heard Daedalus called Buriza, so I'll fill that one away too.
so how do you counter ds "suicide lane"? cause it seemed more like ds freefarm a 15 min pipe lane. shell destroys any melee heroes, pushes the tower into lane so you cant stack and pull, and surge makes him fuckin ungankable
you don't really.
i mean, that's why he is a good hero. if you have a ranged hero you get to free farm against him as well, but most team comps aren't going to be able to gank him at all
so how do you counter ds "suicide lane"? cause it seemed more like ds freefarm a 15 min pipe lane. shell destroys any melee heroes, pushes the tower into lane so you cant stack and pull, and surge makes him fuckin ungankable
you don't really.
i mean, that's why he is a good hero. if you have a ranged hero you get to free farm against him as well, but most team comps aren't going to be able to gank him at all
yeah hes eating a ban from me from now on. fuck that guy
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
He's regularly a first round ban in some pro games as well. Though lately I've seen him slipping through, and then of course getting first picked.
If you can find a dependable way to silence or stun him before he can surge away, you can kind of counter him with a few good ganks, because you know he's going to naturally push the lane waaaay up.
But that's far easier said then done. I've resorted to just hoping the player playing him sucks, cause that's really the only "counter" to him right now.
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I love Sven so much nowadays. Yeah, he's got mobility problems, but all you really need to solve that is one teammate with a decent speedbooster/initiation. The only items I ever really feel like I need on Sven are a BKB and an Armlet, and the Armlet is only because it's already gold efficient as hell and is even moreso when the strength damage bonus is massively increased. He's just such an absurdly good counter to squishy mages and carries because if he gets into range to fight, he's pretty much going to win, especially because in big fights he can just ignore heroes with dodges/who try to slink off with shadowblade by smacking something else, especially if that something else is a low armor caster.
I also like that, even though I really absolutely adore BKB and Armlet, there are so many good things you can pick up on him; Drum of Endurance, Blink Dagger, Mask of Madness (if you've got a really stun heavy team and a lot of confidence), lategame Daed, a Halberd for even more anti-carry fun... he just feels solid enough on his own that you can pick which niche you want to put him into. You can make him into an initiating support with some decent damage on his own with BD and Drums, you can make him a pure anti-squishy force with BKB/Halberd, or you can build him as a source of absurd DPS if you can rely on your team to let you bash people.
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I have the former, and am 2 unusual from the latter. I doubt I will get a mythic pet/courier/whatever, but I've at least got an uncommon.
you don't level it or you don't get it at all til 22
cause in lane burning spears is amazing harass because you can orb walk
and just because the attack modifiers overlap doesn't mean it's bad together, you can basically use this to "choose" whether you want to lifesteal with a particular attack or put a dot on them
Just watch them. Hilarious.
Yea, basically I throw fire if I'm not being focused at the moment, lifesteal when shit gets scary.
Also, 3 years ago tomorrow.
Fitting that we get him next.
All y'all mahfuckas be postin' bout the Doto but I don't see you PLAYIN, BOI!
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
is
amazing
i can't wait to pubstomp people as slark
Well, it doesn't say unusual, it does say rare though. So I'm guessing unusual - I'm not sure honestly, I have it completely maxed out though.
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Also we tried doing reverse captain's mode inhouse but I don't think everyone liked it. I'd be up for doing it again.
The problem was that one team knew what they were doing with the picks and gave us nothing but weak supports, while we gave them a perfectly normal lineup with very good team composition. I just think we will have to be more careful about who is the captain next time.
Wait wait wait...why in the hell would anyone play reverse captain mode and not load the other team up with shit? I mean..you're expecting the other team to do it to you, so....
As an aside, I'm coming around on Pugna, he just might be secret good.
Is it as simple as wins increase your mmr, losses decrease it, and if you win more than you lose, your mmr rises?
Because that works in SC2, but in Dota that sounds like a fucking stupid system.
at least that is my hope, that i can find some more even games
it's possible that my friends and i are just feeders (very high probability)
Say your lineup is currently Drow, Queen of Pain, Chen and Crystal Maiden.
You're CM. What you don't know is the player who hasn't picked yet is Drow's friend and they're going to pick Dazzle and go straight to safe lane with their buddy.
So, are you going to go to hardlane alone as CM ? Yes, no? Doesn't matter, you're not getting any meaningful experience if you go there and will probably just get zoned by a support with half a clue.
Probably killed a bunch of times unless you just sit at the tower, still probably killed there when they arrive at level 4 when you're still 1.
If you go to try and get XP from pulling and sacrificing the lane entirely the enemy carry is still going to get free farm except now your team is probably going to yell at you.
As the universal punching bag that is CM your scoreline with surely reflect your skill.
In game scenarios are incredibly complicated and it is difficult to extract any meaningful information beyond "This team as a whole was worse/better than the other".
I'm pretty sold on the notion of anything but -cm being essentially fucked, -cm pub is also almost universally terrible.
Then again, the reasoning for having it purely based on W/L was reasoning I remember hearing about from League, so there's probably opposition to that on principle.
You'd also have people getting way more pissed off for people doing things that stop them gaining more rating.
i am a sick support cm
Like, Daedalus is a cool name, but Buriza do Kyanon is way cooler
Same with Leoric -> Ostarion or whatever he is now.
My first interaction with the old name was hearing a caster say something like "Looks like Drow's got Buriza from that fight". I thought he was talking about an STD or something.
also cm is a pretty great mode. people really know how to play. solid picks and lanes and smoke ganks, wards and counterwards and gems and trilanes. its madness! a far cry from the typical -ap 5 melee carry pubfest
I try not to use old names, but it is hard to break ze habit.
i mean, that's why he is a good hero. if you have a ranged hero you get to free farm against him as well, but most team comps aren't going to be able to gank him at all
yeah hes eating a ban from me from now on. fuck that guy
But that's far easier said then done. I've resorted to just hoping the player playing him sucks, cause that's really the only "counter" to him right now.