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Is it wrong to sell weapons from a neutral standpoint?

MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
edited March 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
What do you guys think? Disregard my title, I'm looking for honest opinions.

MVMosin on

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    matt7718matt7718 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This may sound fucked up, but if an arms dealer was selling the weapons to both sides for equal prices then it is ok.

    Sure, the two warring factions will kill each other, but they would do that regardless, and since arms dealers are in the business of guns, selling it to both sides for equal amounts is the only way to truly remain neutral.

    I think this argument remains true of any weapon, slingshots, swords, sticks with dog doo on them... etc.

    EDIT: Also it depends on what you really mean by wrong. Morally? Ethically? If you believe that war is wrong, then there is no way to sell any weapons and not be wrong. I personally dont think war is wrong.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    matt7718 wrote: »
    This may sound fucked up, but if an arms dealer was selling the weapons to both sides for equal prices then it is ok.

    Sure, the two warring factions will kill each other, but they would do that regardless, and since arms dealers are in the business of guns, selling it to both sides for equal amounts is the only way to truly remain neutral.

    I think this argument remains true of any weapon, slingshots, swords, sticks with dog doo on them... etc.

    EDIT: Also it depends on what you really mean by wrong. Morally? Ethically? If you believe that war is wrong, then there is no way to sell any weapons and not be wrong. I personally dont think war is wrong.

    So it is OK to sell weapons to Nazi Germany and the Allies at the same time?

    Couscous on
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    GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    If you're in the business of selling more efficient death, you've pretty much thrown out any moral arguments already.

    Gorak on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    matt7718 wrote: »
    This may sound fucked up, but if an arms dealer was selling the weapons to both sides for equal prices then it is ok.

    Sure, the two warring factions will kill each other, but they would do that regardless, and since arms dealers are in the business of guns, selling it to both sides for equal amounts is the only way to truly remain neutral.

    I think this argument remains true of any weapon, slingshots, swords, sticks with dog doo on them... etc.

    EDIT: Also it depends on what you really mean by wrong. Morally? Ethically? If you believe that war is wrong, then there is no way to sell any weapons and not be wrong. I personally dont think war is wrong.

    So it is OK to sell weapons to Nazi Germany and the Allies at the same time?

    sure. Unless there is some sort of reason you object to the actions of the Allies or the Axis forces.

    redx on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Gorak wrote: »
    If you're in the business of selling more efficient death, you've pretty much thrown out any moral arguments already.

    =(

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    GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Gorak wrote: »
    If you're in the business of selling more efficient death, you've pretty much thrown out any moral arguments already.

    =(

    Sorry dude. That's just the way it works. I'm a physics grad who walked away from a defense job.

    Gorak on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Well I don't sell guns to armies or anything. I work out of a fucking apartment building. I sell them to individuals, but even so, I suppose you're right.

    For the record, I got into the business because I see marksmanship as an art form, but you really are right.

    It still makes me /grimace, though.

    MVMosin on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Gorak wrote: »
    If you're in the business of selling more efficient death, you've pretty much thrown out any moral arguments already.

    well... compare selling JDAMs to folks during WWII. Compares surgical strikes to carpet bombing.

    The more efficient weapons would have saved civilian lives.

    More efficient weapons also cost a lot more. You don't have thousands of fighter pilots getting killed anymore, because you can't afford that sort of fleet. You have fewer people doing more, and all in all risking fewer lives.

    Fuck, just look at the only ways nukes have been used. They brought a war to an abrupt end, saving the lives of many thousands of Americans, and likely saving the lives of a great many Japanese. The other way in which they have been used was as a threat which prevented open warfare between super powers. It is likely, that the cold war, as shitty as it was, was less damaging than a conventional war.

    Yeah, I don't really have much problem with folks selling weapons to the highest bidder, unless they are selling them to folks who's actions I don't agree with. In that case they are helping the enemy, and should be eradicated if it is politically and militarily feasible.

    redx on
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Wow deja vu. This is like one of the first real debates I ever got into, when I was a wee tot.

    If you sell weapons, logic might lead you to think that neutrality can only be achieved by selling to whomever has the cash. Anything else is taking sides, right? Refusing to sell to someone wo you'd otherwise sell to is taking sides, right? Maybe.

    The answer human society has developed, though, is that anyone you sell arms to, you support.

    So selling to both Axis and Allies does not mean you're neutral, it means that you support what each are doing, if such a stance is conceivable to you.

    If you sell arms to Nazis, you support Aryan supremacy and death camps and fascist ilitary imperialism. If you sell to Allies, you support stopping all those things.

    It isn't neutrality, then, but rather hypocrisy and contradiction and a huge moral mess. Which, incindentally, is how it would likely play out for you. If you really were a country selling arms to both Axis and Allies, and claiming neutrality, it is highly unlikely either country would decide to leave you alone and respect your neutrality. No, they'd each be racing to see who could conquer you first.

    It gets trick, though, when you try to apply it beyond arms and into general commerce, though (food, banking, whatever). The same logic could theoretically apply to all of those. That is where Gorak's wisdom comes in. If you're providing medical services to either side or both, you can still pretty much claim neutrality, because you're providing medical services. Weapons, the opposite is true. Everything in between... is a big "depends."

    EDIT: As for your less political and more micro-level situation, you can still apply the same thing. If you are honestly and reasonably certain that your weapons are used only for marksmanship, then I say goody. If you have any reasonable doubt or suspicion that your weapons are bought for crime, then your are in essence morally supporting that crime.

    Yar on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    The reason I'm thinking about this now, is because some police detectives came by earlier today asking for my sales records and I gave them a box of reciepts and a box of tapes. I tape all my transactions, for obvious reasons...

    They came across a tape of me selling an assault rifle to an Arab man, who happened to be wearing a shirt sporting a picture of the twin towers in flames with the words "FUCK USA" printed, and they both gave me a look I will never forget as long as I live.

    MVMosin on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    The reason I'm thinking about this now, is because some police detectives came by earlier today asking for my sales records and I gave them a box of reciepts and a box of tapes. I tape all my transactions, for obvious reasons...

    They came across a tape of me selling an assault rifle to an Arab man, who happened to be wearing a shirt sporting a picture of the twin towers in flames with the words "FUCK USA" printed, and they both gave me a look I will never forget as long as I live.

    Dude.

    The terrorists are crazy, not stupid.

    Incenjucar on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    See, that's what I told myself. They apparently didn't agree.

    MVMosin on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2007
    I'm locking this on general principle because the OP sucks nads.

    Try again, this time with some substance to the post, perhaps an opinion, or something.

    ElJeffe on
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