Thats my biggest problem with Soraka. She's just boring, she also teaches really bad support mechanics if you first learn to support with her.
God I can't count the number of times I see Tarics, Alistars and even Sonas sitting behind the AD carry like they're soraka. If you play a support you have to take bush control, or challange them at the creep line. Especially if you're Taric, if you're not standing in front of the creep line, threatening their AD carry, you're being useless. If you let soraka or sona bully your AD carry as a melee support like Alistar, Taric, Leona. Don't play them. Otherwise man up and play the worst kinds of mind games with their AD carry.
I used to be like that when supporting.
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
Thats my biggest problem with Soraka. She's just boring, she also teaches really bad support mechanics if you first learn to support with her.
God I can't count the number of times I see Tarics, Alistars and even Sonas sitting behind the AD carry like they're soraka. If you play a support you have to take bush control, or challange them at the creep line. Especially if you're Taric, if you're not standing in front of the creep line, threatening their AD carry, you're being useless. If you let soraka or sona bully your AD carry as a melee support like Alistar, Taric, Leona. Don't play them. Otherwise man up and play the worst kinds of mind games with their AD carry.
I used to be like that when supporting.
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
This is truth. I have a friend that runs a wicked HP Regen Leona and come mid-game, he just initiates, we kill some stuff and he leaves, skipping back to base knowing that he stole at least 2 of my kills (he's kind of a jerk with Leona).
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Thats my biggest problem with Soraka. She's just boring, she also teaches really bad support mechanics if you first learn to support with her.
God I can't count the number of times I see Tarics, Alistars and even Sonas sitting behind the AD carry like they're soraka. If you play a support you have to take bush control, or challange them at the creep line. Especially if you're Taric, if you're not standing in front of the creep line, threatening their AD carry, you're being useless. If you let soraka or sona bully your AD carry as a melee support like Alistar, Taric, Leona. Don't play them. Otherwise man up and play the worst kinds of mind games with their AD carry.
I used to be like that when supporting.
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
This is truth. I have a friend that runs a wicked HP Regen Leona and come mid-game, he just initiates, we kill some stuff and he leaves, skipping back to base knowing that he stole at least 2 of my kills (he's kind of a jerk with Leona).
From my experience on Leona, he may not actually be trying to steal kills. Eclipse is quite effective for stealing them just by working as intended.
The break even point for LW > 2nd PD on Kog'Maw and Vayne is around roughly 400 armor or higher. I still get LW on them as AD Carries must switch targets often (making Vayne less efficient) and Kog'Maw's W is not always on.
Incorrect. The break point in raw DPS is around 400 armor or higher. But the breakpoint in time to kill against targets with x amount of hit points and y amount of armor/mr is around 150.
This is because the initial damage from your first attacks does not occur on your normal DPS scale but rather it is essentially burst. If you have 2.0 attacks/second then after 2 seconds you've made 5 attacks, not 4. Your actual DPS thus converges to your "raw calculated DPS" as time goes on, but it actually does this surprisingly slowly compared to how long even tanks will survive.
Actual/Raw DPS:
After 1 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.5
After 2 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.25
After 4 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.125
After 8 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.0625
After 1.5 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.5
After 3.0 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.25
After 6.0 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.125
After 12. seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.0625
We can see that actual DPS converges to raw dps slower the slower your attack speed is. It also means that if you're comparing someone with 2.0 attacks/second to someone who has 1.5 attacks/second but they have a similar amount of DPS the character with 1.5 attacks/second will realistically tend to do more damage.
If you want to set them equal you basically have to see who gets to X first where X is "targets hit points minus the first attack".
Even on Kog'Maw and Vayne tend to get there faster with last whisper than they do with another phantom dancer. [The exception being very high HP targets and must be combined with low MR in the case of Kogmaw]
Not really. Gragas heal is 2% of his max life every 4 seconds IF he uses an ability. In order to maximize this he needs to only use an ability every 4 seconds. This is equivalent to Garens regeneration if Gragas can perfectly use an ability every 4 seconds. Its truthfully not all that much.
You have to look at the characters as a whole here though. Garen plays a roll where heavy sustain is the norm. Mids don't usually come even close to that, so a weaker level of sustain is going to be really strong still.
Gragas's sustain really is not impressive. He has to spend mana to get it and must use spells in intervals. My point was that "Garens regen for 2 seconds" isn't actually a lot of regen
And my point is you need to put it in context to make subjective calls like that. How many champs are common mids that have self healing for just doing what they would do?
Sure his healing doesn't compete with some supports and common tops but he's not either of those.
And my point is you need to put it in context to make subjective calls like that. How many champs are common mids that have self healing for just doing what they would do?
Sure his healing doesn't compete with some supports and common tops but he's not either of those.
His healing doesn't compete with health pots. And the context of the discussion was the duration of a team fight.
Yeah, people probably pronounce it kah-gay because that is how it is spelled. It doesn't read right in english, Kage is "Cage, but with a K, cause Kyle" which you'd have to just know about.
And my point is you need to put it in context to make subjective calls like that. How many champs are common mids that have self healing for just doing what they would do?
Sure his healing doesn't compete with some supports and common tops but he's not either of those.
His healing doesn't compete with health pots. And the context of the discussion was the duration of a team fight.
Health pots cost gold and his passive does not preclude their purchase. Point remains. For a mid Gragas has fantastic innate sustain.
Yeah, people probably pronounce it kah-gay because that is how it is spelled. It doesn't read right in english, Kage is "Cage, but with a K, cause Kyle" which you'd have to just know about.
I now know the reference, though. :^:
Hey
now you know,
give reverence to the reference.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Thats my biggest problem with Soraka. She's just boring, she also teaches really bad support mechanics if you first learn to support with her.
God I can't count the number of times I see Tarics, Alistars and even Sonas sitting behind the AD carry like they're soraka. If you play a support you have to take bush control, or challange them at the creep line. Especially if you're Taric, if you're not standing in front of the creep line, threatening their AD carry, you're being useless. If you let soraka or sona bully your AD carry as a melee support like Alistar, Taric, Leona. Don't play them. Otherwise man up and play the worst kinds of mind games with their AD carry.
I used to be like that when supporting.
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
This is truth. I have a friend that runs a wicked HP Regen Leona and come mid-game, he just initiates, we kill some stuff and he leaves, skipping back to base knowing that he stole at least 2 of my kills (he's kind of a jerk with Leona).
From my experience on Leona, he may not actually be trying to steal kills. Eclipse is quite effective for stealing them just by working as intended.
I had assumed this when he first started playing Leona, but now he tells me via Skype, "Hey. Hey, man. Guess what?" DOUBLE KILL "I just stole your kills."
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Thats my biggest problem with Soraka. She's just boring, she also teaches really bad support mechanics if you first learn to support with her.
God I can't count the number of times I see Tarics, Alistars and even Sonas sitting behind the AD carry like they're soraka. If you play a support you have to take bush control, or challange them at the creep line. Especially if you're Taric, if you're not standing in front of the creep line, threatening their AD carry, you're being useless. If you let soraka or sona bully your AD carry as a melee support like Alistar, Taric, Leona. Don't play them. Otherwise man up and play the worst kinds of mind games with their AD carry.
I used to be like that when supporting.
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
This is truth. I have a friend that runs a wicked HP Regen Leona and come mid-game, he just initiates, we kill some stuff and he leaves, skipping back to base knowing that he stole at least 2 of my kills (he's kind of a jerk with Leona).
From my experience on Leona, he may not actually be trying to steal kills. Eclipse is quite effective for stealing them just by working as intended.
I had assumed this when he first started playing Leona, but now he tells me via Skype, "Hey. Hey, man. Guess what?" DOUBLE KILL "I just stole your kills."
Oh, yeah, you can still KS reasonably effectively with Shield of Daybreak if you want to. Bad as her damage is, it does exist.
Just want to give some props to @infidel he totally hooked me up with a PAX Sivir. You sir are a scholar and a gentlemen. Somehow this motivated me to place a bid on a PAX Jax... lol.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I play Soraka with ad/armor penetration runes. Because bananas.
How should I jungle Katarina? I played a game with ad/armor runes (just in case of bad pulls cause soloq. Might just go movespeed/mpen/armor or something), 9/21 masteries and cloth+5. Then I got boots, lucky pick, revolver etc. It kind of worked cause I got bunch of lucky kills with a countergank, but dunno. I don't like cloth+5 start on anybody, but Kat doesn't really seem to work otherwise.
You really shouldn't jungle Katarina.
Why not? She's really fast once she gets going. I mean sure she may not be top tier, but I enjoy playing stuff in jungle.
I once had a really good game as a jungle Miss Fortune!
e: As in, she needs lvl 3 or so to start clearing without losing too much health. She's rather fast to start with.
1) Kat's early clear speed/health/safety isn't great
2) Kat's ganks are 'okay' because of her gapcloser, but she brings no CC to it innately
3) Most importantly, Kat is a snowball hero and it is very, very hard to snowball out of the jungle because of the reduced gold you will get on average compared to a lane
Her 1v1 in the jungle may also be suspect as it's all cooldown based and she can get run over by someone like Mundo, but I won't commit to that particular evaluation.
If the enemy ADC comes to tell me, "Knock it off," I expect my ADC to take some free shots as well. Best case scenario, I take a few hits and heal up. Worst case scenario, enemy ADC turns to take hits on my ADC, and I heal my ADC up. Soraka silence has amazing range. I can silence Taric long before he can stun me. If he chases me while silenced in the hopes of still stunning me, my ADC will (should) be there to put the damage on.
If you do what you described, your adc is there to put the hurt on taric, taric is going to turn and stun the adc, roll face on R and W, and the carry will die from the man mode.
I suppose I should elaborate. My ADC should still be behind me (assuming you're referring to my last scenario). If Taric chases, I need to be the one between him and my ADC (and with flash up, otherwise, I'm in a bad spot that shouldn't be happening). With my ADC still further away from Taric than me, Taric should have no opportunity to stun my ADC. The idea behind it, though, is that Taric (or any other support, for that matter), should not be chasing me just because I silence+AA'd him. Unless the enemy support told their carry they were going to initiate, overextending to retaliate damage is a bad move.
no, you said that you'd silence taric and if they followed you, your adc should be there to put the hurt on them. tarics stun is 625, outranged by only trist late game. if your ad gets in range to trade with taric, after you've burnt your silence, your adc is going to be stunned, and end up with man mode all their face, and since you've already burnt your silence, you cant stop them from staying off your carry (at all) you blew your only CC.
the only way soraka works in a taric lane is top play super passively and not give taric any chance to stun and spooge.
Well, Soraka E has a range of 725. Far out-ranging Taric stun. On a 10-second cooldown (9 seconds with CDR runes), by the time Taric decides to retaliate, I'm at about 7 seconds on my E cooldown. Toss a banana (550 range AA), and keep running back. When I reach the end of my bottom bush, and Taric just entering it, I'm down to about 4 seconds left. My ADC should be north of me, and out of range of Taric. If Taric starts running toward them and leaving me alone in the bush, of course my ADC should be backing up. Especially if the enemy ADC starts creeping forward. Either Taric will stun Soraka, or, in the time it takes Taric to chase my ADC, Soraka will have her E off of cooldown again, without fail.
Saying "they should be there to put the hurt on them" doesn't mean the ADC should be at the front of the bush when I poke Taric with silence. That's just silly. Naturally, and ADC wants to be scoring last hits, but an ADC should never put themselves close to the enemy bushes without having an escape plan if they really want that one CS which is in range of danger. Otherwise, ADC usually takes last hits from the inside of the lane, not the outside.
Oh yeah, an invading jungler would eat her for breakfast if given even items. Lee Sin, Shyvana, Mundo, etc. There are plenty more that would destroy her in a duel, but you get the idea. It's still fine to do if you feel like it, it's just a game and nobody here is a professional. Saintvicious tried and failed to make Kat jungle work a bunch the other night, and that was in ranked, not just normals. I wouldn't do it at lower elo ranked probably, because everybody is going to rage on you even harder than usual if it doesn't work and blame you even if they just lose themselves.
God dammit. I didn't have LoL Replay going. I did my Alistar combo into 4 of the enemy team, our Nunu followed up with his ult, Ez threw his ult, Talon did his thing and Teemo picked everyone off. It all happened in like 3 seconds. Their lifebars literally went from max-to-zero so fast, my game glitched out and showed their Soraka's ragdoll still in mid cast.
I am really enjoying playing counter jungle nunu. It's really fun and incredibly dickish. However, a my Elo in ranked it's not really hurting the enemy jungle that much. Like I steal big wraith an big golem all the time and steal red or blue with the proper opportunity. Hower because so many people play ganking Junglers they tend to get enough xp off kills that it really doesn't matter. It's really frustrating. Also playing jungler is frustrating when I can single handily win a lane.
Yeah, people probably pronounce it kah-gay because that is how it is spelled. It doesn't read right in english, Kage is "Cage, but with a K, cause Kyle" which you'd have to just know about.
Uh, I don't think so. At least, not in English. Vowel-consonant-vowel = first vowel gets the long sound. Yes there are exceptions, but that's the rule (particularly when it comes to the vowel-consonant-e at the end of a word). The choice of consonant in the front of that has no bearing on it, and particularly in this case where 'c' and 'k' are phonetically identical. And then there is the precedent argument, where we look at similar words and see how they are pronounced: wage, page, age, phage, stage, cage, mage, rage...
In other news, have there been any good tourneys in the last month or so that I could watch (spoiler free answers please and thanks)?
Yeah, like I said I jungle her for fun. Anyway, the original question was: how to jungle Katarina? I'm not even sure what items to get her when laning.
I tried going Boots -> Lucky Pick -> Revolver/Gunblade -> Rylais.
Rylais may not be ideal though, but I feel Kat needs at least some additional health. Is there any reason not to build Haunting Guise?
-
Also, a reason to jungle Kat: I can't play her mid, and not sure about top either. I jungled with Fizz too, I just can't play an aggressive lane. And Kat's kind of cool champion to play anyway.
Yeah, people probably pronounce it kah-gay because that is how it is spelled. It doesn't read right in english, Kage is "Cage, but with a K, cause Kyle" which you'd have to just know about.
Uh, I don't think so. At least, not in English. Vowel-consonant-vowel = first vowel gets the long sound. Yes there are exceptions, but that's the rule (particularly when it comes to the vowel-consonant-e at the end of a word). The choice of consonant in the front of that has no bearing on it, and particularly in this case where 'c' and 'k' are phonetically identical. And then there is the precedent argument, where we look at similar words and see how they are pronounced: wage, page, age, phage, stage, cage, mage, rage...
In other news, have there been any good tourneys in the last month or so that I could watch (spoiler free answers please and thanks)?
The MLG tournament with azubu blaze was really good and interesting just to see a different playstyle. Also Legion start really playing strongly(surprisingly strongly) with Wild Turtle as their mid player for a IPL event and then a MLG showmatch with TSM the other week.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
There is precious little funnier than seeing "Defeat (Co-op vs AI game)" in a friend's match history.
There is precious little funnier than seeing "Defeat (Co-op vs AI game)" in a friend's match history.
When I was lower level I used to lose Dominion bot games all the time because I got matched with level 4 people who had no idea what they're doing and it's much more difficult to carry in Dominion. It was extremely frustrating.
I am really enjoying playing counter jungle nunu. It's really fun and incredibly dickish. However, a my Elo in ranked it's not really hurting the enemy jungle that much. Like I steal big wraith an big golem all the time and steal red or blue with the proper opportunity. Hower because so many people play ganking Junglers they tend to get enough xp off kills that it really doesn't matter. It's really frustrating. Also playing jungler is frustrating when I can single handily win a lane.
Yeah, when I pick Shyvana in blind pick my main fear is that they don't have a jungler and nobody will care how fast I'm farming.
There is precious little funnier than seeing "Defeat (Co-op vs AI game)" in a friend's match history.
It's happened to me 3 times. =(
I'd like to think that I know enough about bot quirks (1. they will always come right back 2. their decision-making goes downhill fast when they have no map vision 3. they will brutally execute the weak in teamfights) now to single-handedly win all bot games, but...
There are enough people that don't know how to play Dominion against people that I can't imagine ever finding playing vs bots in it fun.
That is true, I've given up on pvp dominion because either I or everyone on my team have no idea how to play Dominion, and either way it's not working. However, I really like playing Dominion bot games for FOTD and to try a new champion. Now that I'm 30, most people in the Intermediate queue have an idea of what they're doing (intermediate games are actually easier than the beginner because of your teammates, lol) and it's hard to lose if you're paying attention at all.
So I played a game today as Tristana and bought Last Whisper second. Now we had nunu as well, but i think it was an overall good purchase even if I did not have a 145% attack speed buff[170% with Zerks] . Even without bloodboil as soon as I hit q i was at end game super-carry DPS.
I think that we need to start re-evaluating the last whisper as third purchase on a lot of carries and start running Last Whisper second after IE.
Miss Fortune, Corki, Graves, Tristana, Ezreal, Sivir, Draven, and Twitch all have at least two of three high base physical damage abilities, large attack speed bonuses, or abilities to weave between/reset attack timers.
The only ones that don't are Ashe, Vayne, and Kog'maw, and Varus. Though Varus has his q and e which might lend to LW anyway [for mid game q poke] and Ashe has her first hit auto-crit which is legitimately big with LW and IE
In mid game team fights you can be pretty sure that you're going to have to get through someone with armor first, especially if the enemy has a soraka or taric. If a fight is just a poke fight, attack speed doesn't matter much[though MS does]. Last whisper increases your pre-fight ability poke which makes the enemy lower on HP when they do get to you and in general increases your ability damage significantly.
Would you folks who play these carries try it out and see how it goes for me?
Yeah, people probably pronounce it kah-gay because that is how it is spelled. It doesn't read right in english, Kage is "Cage, but with a K, cause Kyle" which you'd have to just know about.
wage, page, age, phage...
What the fuck is this shit? I always thought it was fah-gay!
Battling phonetics is worse than arguing over our in-houses.
So I played a game today as Tristana and bought Last Whisper second. Now we had nunu as well, but i think it was an overall good purchase even if I did not have a 145% attack speed buff[170% with Zerks] . Even without bloodboil as soon as I hit q i was at end game super-carry DPS.
I think that we need to start re-evaluating the last whisper as third purchase on a lot of carries and start running Last Whisper second after IE.
Miss Fortune, Corki, Graves, Tristana, Ezreal, Sivir, Draven, and Twitch all have at least two of three high base physical damage abilities, large attack speed bonuses, or abilities to weave between/reset attack timers.
The only ones that don't are Ashe, Vayne, and Kog'maw, and Varus. Though Varus has his q and e which might lend to LW anyway [for mid game q poke] and Ashe has her first hit auto-crit which is legitimately big with LW and IE
In mid game team fights you can be pretty sure that you're going to have to get through someone with armor first, especially if the enemy has a soraka or taric. If a fight is just a poke fight, attack speed doesn't matter much[though MS does]. Last whisper increases your pre-fight ability poke which makes the enemy lower on HP when they do get to you and in general increases your ability damage significantly.
Would you folks who play these carries try it out and see how it goes for me?
IMO part of the reason you get PD second is the synergy with the crit from IE, and also the move speed for positioning. On most carries I wouldn't want my attack speed to be that slow in team fights either, but in your example, you're tristana with nunu so I could definitely see it.
After IE? Naw, targets will die before you can stack enough cleavers on them. I mean you're still going to build into the normal late game carry items.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Welp
My second game ever on Lee Sin could have gone a lot better (found myself flailing at the buttons alot in team fights), but at least I had an even score.
My second game ever on Lee Sin could have gone a lot better (found myself flailing at the buttons alot in team fights), but at least I had an even score.
When I played Lee Sin against bots I said I LOVE THIS CHAMPION. Then I tried playing him against people, and oh god...
My second game ever on Lee Sin could have gone a lot better (found myself flailing at the buttons alot in team fights), but at least I had an even score.
Dem throws.
I got baited by my teammates twice!
I didn't realize how well my farm was going, I missed a good bit and could have had better for sure.
Posts
Oh, I remember, Miniwolf. I remember. I get near-aneurism frustrated with people who play Alistar that way in ranked on occasion, and believe me, you weren't nearly as bad about it as some of them guys, at least in the couple games that formed my sample. I've honestly really enjoyed watching the general level of support play in inhouses get better over this summer. Rough as some of the Painhouse games have been I think we are, collectively, mostly improving from them.
On the aggro support note, I've been seriously considering putting together a hp regen support page for use with Leona; she's already astonishingly good with a Regrowth start if you can for some reason get away with one ward and no potions. Push W, eat harrass, set your carry up to nuke creep waves, back off a bit, repeat is pretty darn effective.
That ult has 0 cooldown and 100-0s tanks with like 100-120 AP
This is truth. I have a friend that runs a wicked HP Regen Leona and come mid-game, he just initiates, we kill some stuff and he leaves, skipping back to base knowing that he stole at least 2 of my kills (he's kind of a jerk with Leona).
From my experience on Leona, he may not actually be trying to steal kills. Eclipse is quite effective for stealing them just by working as intended.
the ult does less damage and takes more kills to refresh now
ran wukong+kat. team spin2win
Incorrect. The break point in raw DPS is around 400 armor or higher. But the breakpoint in time to kill against targets with x amount of hit points and y amount of armor/mr is around 150.
This is because the initial damage from your first attacks does not occur on your normal DPS scale but rather it is essentially burst. If you have 2.0 attacks/second then after 2 seconds you've made 5 attacks, not 4. Your actual DPS thus converges to your "raw calculated DPS" as time goes on, but it actually does this surprisingly slowly compared to how long even tanks will survive.
Actual/Raw DPS:
After 1 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.5
After 2 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.25
After 4 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.125
After 8 seconds @ 2.0 attacks second = 1.0625
After 1.5 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.5
After 3.0 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.25
After 6.0 seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.125
After 12. seconds @ 1.5 attacks second = 1.0625
We can see that actual DPS converges to raw dps slower the slower your attack speed is. It also means that if you're comparing someone with 2.0 attacks/second to someone who has 1.5 attacks/second but they have a similar amount of DPS the character with 1.5 attacks/second will realistically tend to do more damage.
If you want to set them equal you basically have to see who gets to X first where X is "targets hit points minus the first attack".
Even on Kog'Maw and Vayne tend to get there faster with last whisper than they do with another phantom dancer. [The exception being very high HP targets and must be combined with low MR in the case of Kogmaw]
Also probably because phonetically "Kage" is pronounced in that manner, if you wanted a long a such as in "cage" you would use a c.
Gragas's sustain really is not impressive. He has to spend mana to get it and must use spells in intervals. My point was that "Garens regen for 2 seconds" isn't actually a lot of regen
Sure his healing doesn't compete with some supports and common tops but he's not either of those.
His healing doesn't compete with health pots. And the context of the discussion was the duration of a team fight.
Who cares if it made Udyr and Gragas overpowred?
IT WAS AMAZING!
I now know the reference, though. :^:
Health pots cost gold and his passive does not preclude their purchase. Point remains. For a mid Gragas has fantastic innate sustain.
Hey
now you know,
give reverence to the reference.
I had assumed this when he first started playing Leona, but now he tells me via Skype, "Hey. Hey, man. Guess what?" DOUBLE KILL "I just stole your kills."
Oh, yeah, you can still KS reasonably effectively with Shield of Daybreak if you want to.
2) Kat's ganks are 'okay' because of her gapcloser, but she brings no CC to it innately
3) Most importantly, Kat is a snowball hero and it is very, very hard to snowball out of the jungle because of the reduced gold you will get on average compared to a lane
Her 1v1 in the jungle may also be suspect as it's all cooldown based and she can get run over by someone like Mundo, but I won't commit to that particular evaluation.
Well, Soraka E has a range of 725. Far out-ranging Taric stun. On a 10-second cooldown (9 seconds with CDR runes), by the time Taric decides to retaliate, I'm at about 7 seconds on my E cooldown. Toss a banana (550 range AA), and keep running back. When I reach the end of my bottom bush, and Taric just entering it, I'm down to about 4 seconds left. My ADC should be north of me, and out of range of Taric. If Taric starts running toward them and leaving me alone in the bush, of course my ADC should be backing up. Especially if the enemy ADC starts creeping forward. Either Taric will stun Soraka, or, in the time it takes Taric to chase my ADC, Soraka will have her E off of cooldown again, without fail.
Saying "they should be there to put the hurt on them" doesn't mean the ADC should be at the front of the bush when I poke Taric with silence. That's just silly. Naturally, and ADC wants to be scoring last hits, but an ADC should never put themselves close to the enemy bushes without having an escape plan if they really want that one CS which is in range of danger. Otherwise, ADC usually takes last hits from the inside of the lane, not the outside.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Uh, I don't think so. At least, not in English. Vowel-consonant-vowel = first vowel gets the long sound. Yes there are exceptions, but that's the rule (particularly when it comes to the vowel-consonant-e at the end of a word). The choice of consonant in the front of that has no bearing on it, and particularly in this case where 'c' and 'k' are phonetically identical. And then there is the precedent argument, where we look at similar words and see how they are pronounced: wage, page, age, phage, stage, cage, mage, rage...
In other news, have there been any good tourneys in the last month or so that I could watch (spoiler free answers please and thanks)?
I tried going Boots -> Lucky Pick -> Revolver/Gunblade -> Rylais.
Rylais may not be ideal though, but I feel Kat needs at least some additional health. Is there any reason not to build Haunting Guise?
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Also, a reason to jungle Kat: I can't play her mid, and not sure about top either. I jungled with Fizz too, I just can't play an aggressive lane. And Kat's kind of cool champion to play anyway.
The MLG tournament with azubu blaze was really good and interesting just to see a different playstyle. Also Legion start really playing strongly(surprisingly strongly) with Wild Turtle as their mid player for a IPL event and then a MLG showmatch with TSM the other week.
Thanks for the Pax Sivir infidel! It is awesome. When I was lower level I used to lose Dominion bot games all the time because I got matched with level 4 people who had no idea what they're doing and it's much more difficult to carry in Dominion. It was extremely frustrating. Yeah, when I pick Shyvana in blind pick my main fear is that they don't have a jungler and nobody will care how fast I'm farming.
It's happened to me 3 times. =(
I'd like to think that I know enough about bot quirks (1. they will always come right back 2. their decision-making goes downhill fast when they have no map vision 3. they will brutally execute the weak in teamfights) now to single-handedly win all bot games, but...
I think that we need to start re-evaluating the last whisper as third purchase on a lot of carries and start running Last Whisper second after IE.
Miss Fortune, Corki, Graves, Tristana, Ezreal, Sivir, Draven, and Twitch all have at least two of three high base physical damage abilities, large attack speed bonuses, or abilities to weave between/reset attack timers.
The only ones that don't are Ashe, Vayne, and Kog'maw, and Varus. Though Varus has his q and e which might lend to LW anyway [for mid game q poke] and Ashe has her first hit auto-crit which is legitimately big with LW and IE
In mid game team fights you can be pretty sure that you're going to have to get through someone with armor first, especially if the enemy has a soraka or taric. If a fight is just a poke fight, attack speed doesn't matter much[though MS does]. Last whisper increases your pre-fight ability poke which makes the enemy lower on HP when they do get to you and in general increases your ability damage significantly.
Would you folks who play these carries try it out and see how it goes for me?
What the fuck is this shit? I always thought it was fah-gay!
Battling phonetics is worse than arguing over our in-houses.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
IMO part of the reason you get PD second is the synergy with the crit from IE, and also the move speed for positioning. On most carries I wouldn't want my attack speed to be that slow in team fights either, but in your example, you're tristana with nunu so I could definitely see it.
After IE? Naw, targets will die before you can stack enough cleavers on them. I mean you're still going to build into the normal late game carry items.
My second game ever on Lee Sin could have gone a lot better (found myself flailing at the buttons alot in team fights), but at least I had an even score.
Dem throws.
I got baited by my teammates twice!
I didn't realize how well my farm was going, I missed a good bit and could have had better for sure.