Its good, but you want the other items first. And once you have DFG, Nashors, D-Cap, you will want a void staff.
I suppose you could go Nashors->Lichbane->d-cap and skip the DFG, but you lose out on 15% CDR, 1000 gold, and the DFG proc is better than the lichbane proc since the lichbane proc is physical and doesn't benefit from any of your Mpen while the DFG active does benefit from your Mpen. There are exceptions to this, on-next hit abilities transform the damage to the type of damage you do, so Lichbane[and Sheen] does magic damage when TF picks a card[which is why its super useful on him]
If you go DFG->Lichbane->D-cap then you don't get the 25% CDR from nashors, or the 50% AS. Your burst will be a lot better. But again, you're still out 1000 gold.
I will give the DFG-Lichbane-Dcap path a try next game i play as him, but i don't think it will work as well as the standard build.
Garen got an update? I must have missed that entirely. How is he now?
Garen can do damage while still building tanky now since his abilities scale off total AD and not bonus. He is strong, but still not as strong as Darius as either a pub-stomper, or on someone high skilled.
Stronger late game damage, significantly more tanky with less items, weaker early game.
His early game really suffers now from needing to level Q for the silence duration but E to deal any damage. Also the slow removal is now on Q instead of E which kinda makes sense but in practice I'm not sure I like it. He also gets free tenacity from his active shield.
Overall, he's strong tanky dps (almost too tanky...) but still suffers from poor gap closing and easily kited.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Garen got an update? I must have missed that entirely. How is he now?
His early game is worse, his mid game is monstrous, and his late game is extremely solid.
My build:
Boots+pots
Tabi+Doran's Shield+Doran's Blade
Infinity Edge or Ghostblade
some kind of health and a Negatron Cloak or Hexdrinker
Last Whisper
whatever the fuck you want
If you have kill potential: QEEW R>E>Q>W
If you don't have kill potential: QEEW R>Q>E>W
Stronger late game damage, significantly more tanky with less items, weaker early game.
His early game really suffers now from needing to level Q for the silence duration but E to deal any damage. Also the slow removal is now on Q instead of E which kinda makes sense but in practice I'm not sure I like it. He also gets free tenacity from his active shield.
Overall, he's strong tanky dps (almost too tanky...) but still suffers from poor gap closing and easily kited.
I didn't play him before the remake more than a couple times, but I love the slow removal on Q. I feel like the manliest man striding away through an exhaust. Honestly, I think he may be OP, I always do really well with him and I'm not a very good player, and Xypherous has a history of that. He does lack the gap close of annoying champions like Irelia and Xin, but I don't have much more trouble gap closing than with Riven (even though he is significantly less mobile overall). Yeah, he's going to be pushed around by Jayce or Kennen, but very few melees can handle Kennen, and Jayce has no counter whatsoever, so I don't see it as that big of a deal.
Garen doing well in a matchup basically comes down to "Can Garen get into melee range with the enemy regularly?" and "Can Garen trade favorably when factoring in his passive and his opponent's ability to disable it?".
If yes to both (Gangplank), Garen will normally destroy people. Garen with Ignite/Exhaust, two Dorans and a BFSword can normally 100-0 anyone who isn't stacking armor.
If no to the first and yes to the second (Teemo), Garen can get a GP10 and just farm the lane to be acceptably effective in the late game.
If no to both (Vladmir), you're going to be on the back foot for a majority of the game.
The problem is you generally will need Q to gap close. So you hit Q to catch them, then you get hit with one of the 500 slows in this game, and gg they're gone. Before you could Q up to them, then E to remove any slows and keep the movespeed. Sure you might use E slightly before its in range, but you still reach them and since you should really have a frozen mallet anyway once you're in range it's hard for them to leave.
Unless they are one of the 40% of champions who have a dash/flash is up/any disengage at all. So maybe Garen is a slightly op melee fighter, but he needs it to make up for the difficulty of actually melee fighting anyone who doesn't also want to.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Calling westrice one of the best top laners at any point is a bit far, from what I've seen. He's always been super-snowbally and can dominate games when he uses good positioning. His main issue is his map awareness is non-existent.
Calling westrice one of the best top laners at any point is a bit far, from what I've seen. He's always been super-snowbally and can dominate games when he uses good positioning. His main issue is his map awareness is non-existent.
And teams figured that out and abused the shit out of it.
Calling westrice one of the best top laners at any point is a bit far, from what I've seen. He's always been super-snowbally and can dominate games when he uses good positioning. His main issue is his map awareness is non-existent.
And teams figured that out and abused the shit out of it.
This is why I like Dyrus, he has an almost savant like style of playing top lane and reacts constantly to what is happening around the map. He is a bit of an odd fellow but his top lane skills are pretty much unmatched in my opinion.
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Don't like it. The Lichbane procs are hard to see since they come off as physical rather than magic damage.
For numbers: Lichbane adds 80 AP and its proc damage[and move speed]. With 2 dorans, DFG and runes you end up at about 250 AP. So your AA,q,AA combo does 500+ base + 250 physical. q,AA is 400+base+250 physical.
If you get a D-cap instead you will have ~400 AP. Your AA,Q,AA combo does 800 + Base, which dominates the Lichbane for all levels of armor equal to or greater than MR. q,AA is 640+base, which nearly dominates lichbane for all levels of armor equal to or greater than MR.
And the deathcap makes your shrooms bigger.
So since people tend to have more Armor than MR it looks like Lichbane teemo is actually kinda bad unless you get it last.
Well Lichbane is always the last damage item you would get...
I did think it was bonus magic damage though, not really sure why it would be physical on a mage item. Most games don't go on long enough to build it anyway.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Well Lichbane is always the last damage item you would get...
I did think it was bonus magic damage though, not really sure why it would be physical on a mage item. Most games don't go on long enough to build it anyway.
Well the thing is, if you get it last
Sorc Shoes, DFG, Nashor's, Death Cap, Void Staff, -
Can you think of things better than Lichbane in that last space? Malady? Zhonya? A defensive item?
I feel like you need a defensive item at the end, which doesn't leave you with space for the lichbane and while the Lichbane will have a big proc the fact that everyone will have a decent amount of armor will make it a lot less useful.
Proc's are, iirc, always the same type of damage as the ability that you use it with. So poppy, TF, and Mordekaiser are the only characters which get the "right" kind of damage from Lichbane, since they are the only characters which have on-next hit abilities that change the entire damage type of the attack to magic.
God damn, surrendering before they've even taken down a base turret is so stupid.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
you probably wouldnlt go dfg and nashors, it would be either or
and rylais is extremely solid because it not only provides additional kiting power with q but allows a closer stack of mushrooms because take longer to move from shroom to shroom
you probably wouldnlt go dfg and nashors, it would be either or
and rylais is extremely solid because it not only provides additional kiting power with q but allows a closer stack of mushrooms because take longer to move from shroom to shroom
Nah, both is perfect 40% CDR. Both help your burst [faster attack animation].
Rylai's doesn't proc on your e, so you only get it for your blind. With move quick you don't really have to worry about extra slow in kiting and since your shroom slow is so strong rylai's is almost useless.
Assume a target has 400 MS before he runs over your shroom. Without Rylai's he will have a move speed of 210 [200 plus 50% soft cap under 220].
Rylai's will either slow an additional 5.25% [second stacked slow = 65% diminished effect] or an additional 2.15% [second stacked slow = 65% diminished effect multiplied by 50% already reduced slow]. Assuming its the higher one a character with 400 MS will be slowed to 200. Assuming its the lower one the player will be reduced to a move speed of 205.
So Rylai's gives you a total of 5 to 10 move speed additional slow.
It would be nice on his blind, and the hit points are super great. But everything gives you more damage or more shrooms or more burst or more consistent deeps, or more of all of those.
Nashor's Tooth is an item that is unique in its strength for Teemo. There is not one single wasted stat on the entire thing at any point in the game. It has AS that he wants, AP that he wants, a huge and perfect amount of CDR, and since he will be placing shrooms every 15 seconds he needs the MP5 in order to not be oom when he runs into enemies.
What's a good champ that isn't too dependent on team comp that I can use while solo queuing? I'm guessing a tanky bruiser of some sort...just something I can have fun with, get a couple of kills, without being too concerned at the ineptitude of my team.
Garen doing well in a matchup basically comes down to "Can Garen get into melee range with the enemy regularly?" and "Can Garen trade favorably when factoring in his passive and his opponent's ability to disable it?".
If yes to both (Gangplank), Garen will normally destroy people. Garen with Ignite/Exhaust, two Dorans and a BFSword can normally 100-0 anyone who isn't stacking armor.
If no to the first and yes to the second (Teemo), Garen can get a GP10 and just farm the lane to be acceptably effective in the late game.
If no to both (Vladmir), you're going to be on the back foot for a majority of the game.
Ummmm..... Garen wins that lane at lvl 1
At level 2 he gets a kill if vlad doesn't burn summoners.
Basically how it goes is vlad has to burn pool when you run at him or he is going to take too much damage from q e. Once vlad has lower cd on q garen has w
But pool costs health. And garen will have his q before pool is back up.
Vlad needs to have boots 2 as his first item or he will never compete. Once garen gets a couple levels/kills on him, it's tower dive city.
What's a good champ that isn't too dependent on team comp that I can use while solo queuing? I'm guessing a tanky bruiser of some sort...just something I can have fun with, get a couple of kills, without being too concerned at the ineptitude of my team.
The answer is always Jax. Just make sure Malphite is banned.
Posts
Its good, but you want the other items first. And once you have DFG, Nashors, D-Cap, you will want a void staff.
I suppose you could go Nashors->Lichbane->d-cap and skip the DFG, but you lose out on 15% CDR, 1000 gold, and the DFG proc is better than the lichbane proc since the lichbane proc is physical and doesn't benefit from any of your Mpen while the DFG active does benefit from your Mpen. There are exceptions to this, on-next hit abilities transform the damage to the type of damage you do, so Lichbane[and Sheen] does magic damage when TF picks a card[which is why its super useful on him]
If you go DFG->Lichbane->D-cap then you don't get the 25% CDR from nashors, or the 50% AS. Your burst will be a lot better. But again, you're still out 1000 gold.
I will give the DFG-Lichbane-Dcap path a try next game i play as him, but i don't think it will work as well as the standard build.
Garen can do damage while still building tanky now since his abilities scale off total AD and not bonus. He is strong, but still not as strong as Darius as either a pub-stomper, or on someone high skilled.
His early game really suffers now from needing to level Q for the silence duration but E to deal any damage. Also the slow removal is now on Q instead of E which kinda makes sense but in practice I'm not sure I like it. He also gets free tenacity from his active shield.
Overall, he's strong tanky dps (almost too tanky...) but still suffers from poor gap closing and easily kited.
His early game is worse, his mid game is monstrous, and his late game is extremely solid.
My build:
Boots+pots
Tabi+Doran's Shield+Doran's Blade
Infinity Edge or Ghostblade
some kind of health and a Negatron Cloak or Hexdrinker
Last Whisper
whatever the fuck you want
If you have kill potential: QEEW R>E>Q>W
If you don't have kill potential: QEEW R>Q>E>W
If yes to both (Gangplank), Garen will normally destroy people. Garen with Ignite/Exhaust, two Dorans and a BFSword can normally 100-0 anyone who isn't stacking armor.
If no to the first and yes to the second (Teemo), Garen can get a GP10 and just farm the lane to be acceptably effective in the late game.
If no to both (Vladmir), you're going to be on the back foot for a majority of the game.
Unless they are one of the 40% of champions who have a dash/flash is up/any disengage at all. So maybe Garen is a slightly op melee fighter, but he needs it to make up for the difficulty of actually melee fighting anyone who doesn't also want to.
Is he just really bad at it? or...?
Its just depressing because you can tell he's trying to find a role where curse isn't going to bench him.
Even your own team hates AP Teemo!
(this was a while ago obviously)
I don't feel like the mistakes I saw him making were really a matter of role.
I initially misread "dabest" as "diabetus".
Not even game-quitting hybrid AD/AP carry Ryze:
This is why I like Dyrus, he has an almost savant like style of playing top lane and reacts constantly to what is happening around the map. He is a bit of an odd fellow but his top lane skills are pretty much unmatched in my opinion.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
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So i played a game as Lichbane Teemo...
Don't like it. The Lichbane procs are hard to see since they come off as physical rather than magic damage.
For numbers: Lichbane adds 80 AP and its proc damage[and move speed]. With 2 dorans, DFG and runes you end up at about 250 AP. So your AA,q,AA combo does 500+ base + 250 physical. q,AA is 400+base+250 physical.
If you get a D-cap instead you will have ~400 AP. Your AA,Q,AA combo does 800 + Base, which dominates the Lichbane for all levels of armor equal to or greater than MR. q,AA is 640+base, which nearly dominates lichbane for all levels of armor equal to or greater than MR.
And the deathcap makes your shrooms bigger.
So since people tend to have more Armor than MR it looks like Lichbane teemo is actually kinda bad unless you get it last.
I did think it was bonus magic damage though, not really sure why it would be physical on a mage item. Most games don't go on long enough to build it anyway.
Well the thing is, if you get it last
Sorc Shoes, DFG, Nashor's, Death Cap, Void Staff, -
Can you think of things better than Lichbane in that last space? Malady? Zhonya? A defensive item?
I feel like you need a defensive item at the end, which doesn't leave you with space for the lichbane and while the Lichbane will have a big proc the fact that everyone will have a decent amount of armor will make it a lot less useful.
Proc's are, iirc, always the same type of damage as the ability that you use it with. So poppy, TF, and Mordekaiser are the only characters which get the "right" kind of damage from Lichbane, since they are the only characters which have on-next hit abilities that change the entire damage type of the attack to magic.
Edit: This is also why LB is core on TF
and rylais is extremely solid because it not only provides additional kiting power with q but allows a closer stack of mushrooms because take longer to move from shroom to shroom
long story short we double kill them during the first creepwave and win with style and grace
Unless I'm confused about how slows stack it shouldn't even take effect.
Nah, both is perfect 40% CDR. Both help your burst [faster attack animation].
Rylai's doesn't proc on your e, so you only get it for your blind. With move quick you don't really have to worry about extra slow in kiting and since your shroom slow is so strong rylai's is almost useless.
Assume a target has 400 MS before he runs over your shroom. Without Rylai's he will have a move speed of 210 [200 plus 50% soft cap under 220].
Rylai's will either slow an additional 5.25% [second stacked slow = 65% diminished effect] or an additional 2.15% [second stacked slow = 65% diminished effect multiplied by 50% already reduced slow]. Assuming its the higher one a character with 400 MS will be slowed to 200. Assuming its the lower one the player will be reduced to a move speed of 205.
So Rylai's gives you a total of 5 to 10 move speed additional slow.
It would be nice on his blind, and the hit points are super great. But everything gives you more damage or more shrooms or more burst or more consistent deeps, or more of all of those.
Nashor's Tooth is an item that is unique in its strength for Teemo. There is not one single wasted stat on the entire thing at any point in the game. It has AS that he wants, AP that he wants, a huge and perfect amount of CDR, and since he will be placing shrooms every 15 seconds he needs the MP5 in order to not be oom when he runs into enemies.
Double AP bot lane (or similar)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al8wcjKN9tZLdDNkTWdheE4xazFyZ21pMWxwWW0zUkE&pli=1#gid=17
What's a good champ that isn't too dependent on team comp that I can use while solo queuing? I'm guessing a tanky bruiser of some sort...just something I can have fun with, get a couple of kills, without being too concerned at the ineptitude of my team.
Ummmm..... Garen wins that lane at lvl 1
At level 2 he gets a kill if vlad doesn't burn summoners.
Basically how it goes is vlad has to burn pool when you run at him or he is going to take too much damage from q e. Once vlad has lower cd on q garen has w
But pool costs health. And garen will have his q before pool is back up.
Vlad needs to have boots 2 as his first item or he will never compete. Once garen gets a couple levels/kills on him, it's tower dive city.
i'll have to look at my runes and masteries when i get home then and I guess post them? if someone cares who has to go back after red. yeah.
tell me about this AP mid eve.
The answer is always Jax. Just make sure Malphite is banned.