my friend likes to play top lane and then we started playing dominion and he wanted to go bot and everyone was like "oh thank god" and he didn't know why. then he realized...
"wait... is bot lane... is bot lane dominion like top lane rift??? do i like the stupid lane nobody likes again? FUCK"
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Poppy is the god-queen of counterpicking top. She's the hardest carry in the game and she also stomps most melee ad champs.
Rumble is just stupid. And Irelia will always be a completely ridiculous top champion regardless of how many times they nerf her. She's still basically -the- top pick of top lane and she has been nerfed so very much. It's baffling how strong she was when she came out.
Also no one has mentioned Olaf. He crushes so many top lanes, the only reason he's not the best pick ever in tournament play is because very skilled teams can handle him. Almost no one playing a melee champion in soloque can.
It's simply a design decision of "How much advantage should someone be required to have in order to completely zone another champion out of a lane?".
At that point, you need to increase or decrease the effectiveness of an ~800 gold advantage. As it stands, ~800 buys you a Doran's Blade+Cloth Armor/Negatron and maybe some sodas. If you get a few more CS, that's two Doran's Blades. If you could 1v1 someone and win with no items, then having +160hp, +20AD, and 6%LS is going to let you murder them.
If you remove the Doran's Blades, then your other option is farm for a Giant's Belt/BFS/Wriggles/Brut, or pick up a GP10 to translate your early game advantage into a late game advantage. Those items are going to let the snowballer to snowball better, but not as fast as they would with Dorans. You could also do something like maintain the same gold->stat effectiveness on Dorans, but increase the price to 600gp.
I love top lane and wish they don't change it but that's because the champs that go top tend to be the coolest champs (except for Yorick fuck Yorick). The only time I willingly don't go top lane is if my friend wants to do a cheesy kill lane in bot. Blitz/Jarvan has been our thing lately. It's fun until we get camped.
It's simply a design decision of "How much advantage should someone be required to have in order to completely zone another champion out of a lane?".
At that point, you need to increase or decrease the effectiveness of an ~800 gold advantage. As it stands, ~800 buys you a Doran's Blade+Cloth Armor/Negatron and maybe some sodas. If you get a few more CS, that's two Doran's Blades. If you could 1v1 someone and win with no items, then having +160hp, +20AD, and 6%LS is going to let you murder them.
If you remove the Doran's Blades, then your other option is farm for a Giant's Belt/BFS/Wriggles/Brut, or pick up a GP10 to translate your early game advantage into a late game advantage. Those items are going to let the snowballer to snowball better, but not as fast as they would with Dorans. You could also do something like maintain the same gold->stat effectiveness on Dorans, but increase the price to 600gp.
man, to snowball a lane out of control, you could move 1-2 teemo's past the mid-point of river against someone who really really knows what they're doing, and completely lose top/any lane. you don't even need the 20-30 CS difference that you're talking about. bot is slightly more forgiving because of the duo nature of the lane, but even then if you drop the adc twice early, the lane is done.
Doran's are never going to cost 600, they're always going to be the "no you can't build these into anything useful late game, but damn they're gold efficient and you can buy them with starting gold" items.
I'm really interested with the unannounced changes to GP10 items. They're too strong top, slightly OP in the jungle, but completely essential to a 0CS support. i really don't know what they'll do to them that still makes them a viable choice for supports, but not the other lanes.
"Hey, you know this really important part of the game that everybody else is playing? YOU don't get to do it at all!"
Relegating a champ to not CSing is bad gameplay, imo. It's also dumb for 1200 ranked players and the like to be giving up CS to another person who may or may not even be able to CS, and who may or may not be able to do their job even with that CS. But obviously it's the right thing to do since all the pros do it........
"Hey, you know this really important part of the game that everybody else is playing? YOU don't get to do it at all!"
Relegating a champ to not CSing is bad gameplay, imo. It's also dumb for 1200 ranked players and the like to be giving up CS to another person who may or may not even be able to CS, and who may or may not be able to do their job even with that CS. But obviously it's the right thing to do since all the pros do it........
You're talking about two different things here.
First, supports have another job to do instead of CS. It's not like they sit back bored. Just like the ADC's job in lane is not to roam and get kills, it's not the support's job in lane to focus on last hitting.
Second, those players at 1200 are fools for letting CS languish when their ADC cannot grab them. Fools.
Yeah, I don't grab GP10 items on Sona. I grab CS when my lane partner is away. I heal and harass. I find it fun.
I'm fairly certain the handful of CS you can grab when the carry is out of lane doesn't outperform the GP10 items you'd normally grab for gold gain (and you can still grab this CS with GP10 items anyway), nor does getting GP10 items preclude you from harassing and healing.
Also @Sokpuppet - Junglers don't really CS in the traditional sense, either.
It's simply a design decision of "How much advantage should someone be required to have in order to completely zone another champion out of a lane?".
At that point, you need to increase or decrease the effectiveness of an ~800 gold advantage. As it stands, ~800 buys you a Doran's Blade+Cloth Armor/Negatron and maybe some sodas. If you get a few more CS, that's two Doran's Blades. If you could 1v1 someone and win with no items, then having +160hp, +20AD, and 6%LS is going to let you murder them.
If you remove the Doran's Blades, then your other option is farm for a Giant's Belt/BFS/Wriggles/Brut, or pick up a GP10 to translate your early game advantage into a late game advantage. Those items are going to let the snowballer to snowball better, but not as fast as they would with Dorans. You could also do something like maintain the same gold->stat effectiveness on Dorans, but increase the price to 600gp.
man, to snowball a lane out of control, you could move 1-2 teemo's past the mid-point of river against someone who really really knows what they're doing, and completely lose top/any lane. you don't even need the 20-30 CS difference that you're talking about. bot is slightly more forgiving because of the duo nature of the lane, but even then if you drop the adc twice early, the lane is done.
Doran's are never going to cost 600, they're always going to be the "no you can't build these into anything useful late game, but damn they're gold efficient and you can buy them with starting gold" items.
I'm really interested with the unannounced changes to GP10 items. They're too strong top, slightly OP in the jungle, but completely essential to a 0CS support. i really don't know what they'll do to them that still makes them a viable choice for supports, but not the other lanes.
Bottom lane is pretty safe because, with wards, it's nearly impossible to gank unless you're out of position. In order to really dominate bottom lane, you need to either be out of position or be much more skilled than your opponent. This means that, with a semi-competent jungler, you have to consistently do poorly in order to be zoned out of bottom lane (assuming you didn't do some shitty lane like soraka/ashe against leona/graves).
In middle, you normally run flash farmers with escapes (Gragas) or people with very long range farming abilities (Karthus). When you combine this with the five escape routes, numerous bushes, and the ease of wall-flashing, you normally can't be zoned out of the lane unless you are simply outskilled.
If you get ganked in the jungle, the aggressor is very close to either mid+top or mid+bottom, meaning it can easily turn into a 4-on-1. You also have benefit of loads of flashable walls, bushes, and four turrets you can run to.
Top lane is a fucking meatgrinder in comparison. Once the enemy top laner can kill you at the river, it's a really thin line between "I can farm if my tower is near" and "I can farm so long as their jungler doesn't decide to dive me every time I get into lane".
@Dorans: No one starts with Dorans items anymore, unless you're the ADC laning with Soraka against a lane with little poke. When you look at it like that, I don't think there's any reason for Dorans to be 475 gold outside of the arbitrary. You could easily raise the price of Doran's Blade by 40% and have it give you 40% more stats.
475 gold is equivalent to one kill and a creep wave. That means if I can kill you, clear a creep wave, and back, I can then come back to lane with another level on you and extra stats. Increasing the gold cost to 600+ gold would prevent someone from snowballing from level 1, or prevent snowballing around level 5-6 by simply buying two dorans.
Yeah, I don't grab GP10 items on Sona. I grab CS when my lane partner is away. I heal and harass. I find it fun.
I'm fairly certain the handful of CS you can grab when the carry is out of lane doesn't outperform the GP10 items you'd normally grab for gold gain, nor does getting GP10 items preclude you from harassing and healing.
Also @Sokpuppet - Junglers don't really CS in the traditional sense, either.
10cs per 20 minutes beats out a gp10 item, right?
That doesn't seem unreasonable.
Poppy is the god-queen of counterpicking top. She's the hardest carry in the game and she also stomps most melee ad champs.
I thought Poppy lost in lane to everyone
Except possibly Nasus
Because Nasus is the worst
Give me a melee ad champion and poppy will smack him/her/it. Darius and Irelia might do fairly well against her though, I've never fought Darius but his ult seems to counter poppy fairly well and Irelia/poppy is a farm war. They have a very hard time actually killing each other. Which is usually where Irelia wants to be, except in this matchup poppy is actually a larger threat late game.
Edit: Disclaimer; I realize Olaf is melee ad. Olaf will just walk all over her, not even close.
Poppy is not a great laner, but her matchups are not as bad as people think, considering her christ tier late game. Olaf, Kennen, Rumble, are probably some of the worst matchups you'd see regularly. Jayce would probably beat her down too early. Darius I'm not sure about. Either way, she outscales everybody, so if you're good with her you can do well no matter what, see Zekent's all poppy smurf he got to 2300+.
Poppy is the god-queen of counterpicking top. She's the hardest carry in the game and she also stomps most melee ad champs.
I thought Poppy lost in lane to everyone
Except possibly Nasus
Because Nasus is the worst
Give me a melee ad champion and poppy will smack him/her/it. Darius and Irelia might do fairly well against her though, Darius because I've never met him with poppy and Irelia becomes a farm war. Both of them have a very hard time actually killing each other. Which is usually where Irelia wants to be, except in this matchup poppy is actually a larger threat late game.
Irelia pops her +true damage and Poppy runs away. When that wears off, Poppy tries to hit Irelia with Qs.
Irelia wins the lane if she can get a stun+true damage off on Poppy and get her into kill range (and thus Poppy can't CS or she dies). Poppy wins the lane if she doesn't get hit by true damage and manages to land lots of E+Qs. The lane is even if Poppy doesn't get hit and Irelia doesn't stand next to walls.
At least, that's how I've seen it play out. Against Darius, I don't know if Poppy's passive works on True Damage. If it does, she's going to be on the back foot. Otherwise, she's gonna die.
It's called true damage because nothing mitigates it (outside of stuff that prevents damage). I'd assume that Ahri's Q is half blocked by black shield and then the return goes through it but who knows.
Poppy is the god-queen of counterpicking top. She's the hardest carry in the game and she also stomps most melee ad champs.
I thought Poppy lost in lane to everyone
Except possibly Nasus
Because Nasus is the worst
Give me a melee ad champion and poppy will smack him/her/it. Darius and Irelia might do fairly well against her though, Darius because I've never met him with poppy and Irelia becomes a farm war. Both of them have a very hard time actually killing each other. Which is usually where Irelia wants to be, except in this matchup poppy is actually a larger threat late game.
Irelia pops her +true damage and Poppy runs away. When that wears off, Poppy tries to hit Irelia with Qs.
Irelia wins the lane if she can get a stun+true damage off on Poppy and get her into kill range (and thus Poppy can't CS or she dies). Poppy wins the lane if she doesn't get hit by true damage and manages to land lots of E+Qs. The lane is even if Poppy doesn't get hit and Irelia doesn't stand next to walls.
At least, that's how I've seen it play out. Against Darius, I don't know if Poppy's passive works on True Damage. If it does, she's going to be on the back foot. Otherwise, she's gonna die.
Exactly, Irelia vs poppy usually becomes a stalemate. I don't know about Darius, nothing reduces true damage so his ultimate is very good vs poppy. But her early game is probably stronger, contrary to the poster above claiming poppy's early game is crap it's not that bad vs the right champions. You want to fight tanky dps, sustained fighting where you can get off Q's often while shrugging off ad damage with your armor.
my guess: they'll nuke all the first line top-laners from orbit, and then see what shakes out in the "meta".
I smell a Nasus uprising! I'll finally be able to play one of my old favorites!
Also, I'd love to see some map hazards. If they're static hazards, people will work around them. I'm interested in having unknown-location hazards that either change location after activation, or change location every x seconds where 'x' can be single, double, or triple digits (I'm not picky).
Maybe I'm just bitter against better compositions, and I want to see them falter because of an accidental discovery of a trap that would put them at a disadvantage.
Edit: Or maybe something like this to spice up the jungle?
Posts
aram tournament game mode
any questions
Joe's Stream.
Kayle
Rumble
Vlad
Irelia
Shen
Jayce
Learn those six
Jax, Irelia, Darius, Riven, Yorick, Jayce
I miss the days when Gangplank was king of top lane.
"wait... is bot lane... is bot lane dominion like top lane rift??? do i like the stupid lane nobody likes again? FUCK"
Things are always going to be either safe or snowbally.
Maybe we're starting to run up against the fundamental limitations of the game type on "that map"? It's only been ten years...
Rumble is just stupid. And Irelia will always be a completely ridiculous top champion regardless of how many times they nerf her. She's still basically -the- top pick of top lane and she has been nerfed so very much. It's baffling how strong she was when she came out.
Also no one has mentioned Olaf. He crushes so many top lanes, the only reason he's not the best pick ever in tournament play is because very skilled teams can handle him. Almost no one playing a melee champion in soloque can.
At that point, you need to increase or decrease the effectiveness of an ~800 gold advantage. As it stands, ~800 buys you a Doran's Blade+Cloth Armor/Negatron and maybe some sodas. If you get a few more CS, that's two Doran's Blades. If you could 1v1 someone and win with no items, then having +160hp, +20AD, and 6%LS is going to let you murder them.
If you remove the Doran's Blades, then your other option is farm for a Giant's Belt/BFS/Wriggles/Brut, or pick up a GP10 to translate your early game advantage into a late game advantage. Those items are going to let the snowballer to snowball better, but not as fast as they would with Dorans. You could also do something like maintain the same gold->stat effectiveness on Dorans, but increase the price to 600gp.
It's the general design decisions in league of legends right now as a whole
Which if they're revamping it could be very different
I thought Poppy lost in lane to everyone
Except possibly Nasus
Because Nasus is the worst
Maybe not on SR. Something new?
Honestly people just need to run more teleports.
man, to snowball a lane out of control, you could move 1-2 teemo's past the mid-point of river against someone who really really knows what they're doing, and completely lose top/any lane. you don't even need the 20-30 CS difference that you're talking about. bot is slightly more forgiving because of the duo nature of the lane, but even then if you drop the adc twice early, the lane is done.
Doran's are never going to cost 600, they're always going to be the "no you can't build these into anything useful late game, but damn they're gold efficient and you can buy them with starting gold" items.
I'm really interested with the unannounced changes to GP10 items. They're too strong top, slightly OP in the jungle, but completely essential to a 0CS support. i really don't know what they'll do to them that still makes them a viable choice for supports, but not the other lanes.
Joe's Stream.
If you don't have GP10s your income as a jungler is garbage compared to the bruisers and you can't tank
Why?
The main problem with shen is that if you play draft, you'll never be able to play shen.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
Joe's Stream.
"Hey, you know this really important part of the game that everybody else is playing? YOU don't get to do it at all!"
Relegating a champ to not CSing is bad gameplay, imo. It's also dumb for 1200 ranked players and the like to be giving up CS to another person who may or may not even be able to CS, and who may or may not be able to do their job even with that CS. But obviously it's the right thing to do since all the pros do it........
You're talking about two different things here.
First, supports have another job to do instead of CS. It's not like they sit back bored. Just like the ADC's job in lane is not to roam and get kills, it's not the support's job in lane to focus on last hitting.
Second, those players at 1200 are fools for letting CS languish when their ADC cannot grab them. Fools.
but i had smite. so did our xin. and our mundo.
they basically just jungled both sides the entire game and I was able to roam from lane to lane after pushing back mid. very strange game.
I'm fairly certain the handful of CS you can grab when the carry is out of lane doesn't outperform the GP10 items you'd normally grab for gold gain (and you can still grab this CS with GP10 items anyway), nor does getting GP10 items preclude you from harassing and healing.
Also @Sokpuppet - Junglers don't really CS in the traditional sense, either.
Bottom lane is pretty safe because, with wards, it's nearly impossible to gank unless you're out of position. In order to really dominate bottom lane, you need to either be out of position or be much more skilled than your opponent. This means that, with a semi-competent jungler, you have to consistently do poorly in order to be zoned out of bottom lane (assuming you didn't do some shitty lane like soraka/ashe against leona/graves).
In middle, you normally run flash farmers with escapes (Gragas) or people with very long range farming abilities (Karthus). When you combine this with the five escape routes, numerous bushes, and the ease of wall-flashing, you normally can't be zoned out of the lane unless you are simply outskilled.
If you get ganked in the jungle, the aggressor is very close to either mid+top or mid+bottom, meaning it can easily turn into a 4-on-1. You also have benefit of loads of flashable walls, bushes, and four turrets you can run to.
Top lane is a fucking meatgrinder in comparison. Once the enemy top laner can kill you at the river, it's a really thin line between "I can farm if my tower is near" and "I can farm so long as their jungler doesn't decide to dive me every time I get into lane".
@Dorans: No one starts with Dorans items anymore, unless you're the ADC laning with Soraka against a lane with little poke. When you look at it like that, I don't think there's any reason for Dorans to be 475 gold outside of the arbitrary. You could easily raise the price of Doran's Blade by 40% and have it give you 40% more stats.
475 gold is equivalent to one kill and a creep wave. That means if I can kill you, clear a creep wave, and back, I can then come back to lane with another level on you and extra stats. Increasing the gold cost to 600+ gold would prevent someone from snowballing from level 1, or prevent snowballing around level 5-6 by simply buying two dorans.
10cs per 20 minutes beats out a gp10 item, right?
That doesn't seem unreasonable.
Give me a melee ad champion and poppy will smack him/her/it. Darius and Irelia might do fairly well against her though, I've never fought Darius but his ult seems to counter poppy fairly well and Irelia/poppy is a farm war. They have a very hard time actually killing each other. Which is usually where Irelia wants to be, except in this matchup poppy is actually a larger threat late game.
Edit: Disclaimer; I realize Olaf is melee ad. Olaf will just walk all over her, not even close.
Irelia pops her +true damage and Poppy runs away. When that wears off, Poppy tries to hit Irelia with Qs.
Irelia wins the lane if she can get a stun+true damage off on Poppy and get her into kill range (and thus Poppy can't CS or she dies). Poppy wins the lane if she doesn't get hit by true damage and manages to land lots of E+Qs. The lane is even if Poppy doesn't get hit and Irelia doesn't stand next to walls.
At least, that's how I've seen it play out. Against Darius, I don't know if Poppy's passive works on True Damage. If it does, she's going to be on the back foot. Otherwise, she's gonna die.
Exactly, Irelia vs poppy usually becomes a stalemate. I don't know about Darius, nothing reduces true damage so his ultimate is very good vs poppy. But her early game is probably stronger, contrary to the poster above claiming poppy's early game is crap it's not that bad vs the right champions. You want to fight tanky dps, sustained fighting where you can get off Q's often while shrugging off ad damage with your armor.
I smell a Nasus uprising! I'll finally be able to play one of my old favorites!
Also, I'd love to see some map hazards. If they're static hazards, people will work around them. I'm interested in having unknown-location hazards that either change location after activation, or change location every x seconds where 'x' can be single, double, or triple digits (I'm not picky).
Maybe I'm just bitter against better compositions, and I want to see them falter because of an accidental discovery of a trap that would put them at a disadvantage.
Edit: Or maybe something like this to spice up the jungle?
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.