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Diablo III: 1.05 PTR notes, Enchantress no longer worth keeping around

ShenShen Registered User regular
edited September 2012 in Games and Technology
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Blizzard hacked, recommend US players change their passwords.
Patch 1.04 patch notes
1.05 PTR notes

WARNING! There has been a lot of hacking of Battle.net Accounts since Diablo 3's release. GET AN AUTHENTICATOR. You can get them for iOS and Android devices for free, or from the Blizzard store for a reasonable price. If you get hacked Blizzard will restore your items and characters, but only a limited number of times. After the first you will need to get an authenticator anyway, and after the second you will no longer be able to use the RMAH.


Welcome to the Diablo 3 thread! We apologise in advance for the incessant moaning, it's only because we care.

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What's different from Diablo 2?

The game is still an isometric click fest where you slaughter thousands of demons in the enternal search for better loot, though several of the mechanics/game systems have been changed. It is now ONLINE ONLY. You can set games to be private (invite only), friends only, and open to public. With friends only games, your friends will see a quick join button on their main screens, letting them drop in any time as long as there is room. The max player size is also 4 now.

Skill trees, skill points, synergies, and manual stat placement are all gone. Instead, all of your stat points (you get more than 5 now) are gained and placed automatically with each level up, with distribution based on your class. Skills are now broken into Actives and Passives, and are all gained as you level up, along with the new skill runes (see below). The potion belt is also gone, and potions themselves now have a 30 second cooldown, so no more chugging to stay alive. Instead, enemies drop Health Orbs, which simply heal you (and all your allies within range.) when you walk over them. The bigger the orb, the more it heals. Runes and Runewords are also gone, and have been replace with a proper crafting system.

Hardcore makes a return, but the requires you to have one character reach level 10 in normal before you can create any Hardcore characters. And last, but not least, Hell is no longer the hardest difficulty in the game. That duty has been taken over by the Inferno difficulty, which has proven to be a significant challenge.

There's a lot more detailed info available at the official game guide, including skill calculators and character profiles. If you're still curious, you can try the game for free up to the first boss and level 13.

The Classes

The Barbarian, aka The Wayfarer
The Demon Hunter, fueled by Hatred and Discipline
The Monk, Unyielding in the service of Ivgorod
The Witch Doctor, aka the Doubtwalker
And last but not least, the prodigious Wizard
Auction Houses

Diablo 3 has two different types of Auction houses available for players: the gold AH, and the Real Money AH. The gold AH is fairly straight forward, and functions largely the same as AHs found in other games, like WoW. It's available at launch to both Normal and Hardcore characters, but is exclusive between the two. The RMAH allows you to buy and sell in game items with real world currency and is only available for Softcore. Here's quick breakdown of the specifics:
-Commodities are automatically searched for best price, and are buyout only.
-You must choose Battle.net balance or real currency when you post the auction, not when it sells.
-15% fee on cashing out
-Battle.net balance can be used for a bunch of battle.net stuff including digital games, and WoW paid services. It cannot be used to pay subscription fees.
-No RMAH in Asia at release

Fees:

For Equipment (weapons, armor, accessories, and other unique items)

Transaction Fee (Gold Auction House): 15% of final sale price
Transaction Fee (Real-Money Auction House): $1.00 USD per item / $1.00 AUD per item
Transfer Fee (when sending proceeds to PayPal or other authorized payment-service provider): 15% of amount being transferred



For Commodities (gems, materials, dyes, pages, recipes, and other non-unique items)

Transaction Fee (Gold Auction House): 15% of final sale price
Transaction Fee (Real-Money Auction House): 15% of final sale price
Transfer Fee (when sending proceeds to PayPal or other authorized payment-service provider): 15% of amount being transferred

For a more indepth how-to, please go here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/how-to


Useful links:

Game guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/
Skill calculator: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian
EHP calculator: http://rubensayshi.github.com/d3-ehp-calculator/#intro
Damage calculator: http://theasiangamer.com/d3-damage-calculator/
Max values on items: http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/
Blue tracker: http://d3db.com/blue/browse
Gem calculator: http://diablo-3-gem-calculator.com/index.php
Excellent legendary browser: http://www.d3lexicon.com/legendary

3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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Shen on
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Posts

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    Im still pissed that they made neather tentacles, the last skill unlocked, basically shit.
    I don't see any problem with it now that they fixed the crits and everything.

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  • HexDexHexDex Registered User regular
    That's actually the only thing I don't understand about that rune. Why they give it to you so late. It would be most useful while leveling, yet you don't have it then.

    If you are reading this add me.
    D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter

  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Wicked Wind getting hit with the big nerf stick I see. Windup was fun while it lasted, but I predicted it would get smacked pretty hard last month. So no surprise really.

    It would be nice if Monks, rather than Wizards, became the indestructible tanks they should be.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • BountyHunterBountyHunter Registered User regular
    Plenty of other Top level runes shit for every other class.. i dont see why DH should get an exception.. however. their changes are not announced so you may get a buff / tweak

    D3: iNaddict#1252
    Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/iNaddict
    PSN: iNaddict
  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    I'd like to see the WD changes. It's the first class I played to 60, and still has my most played time on, but I basically quit and rerolled DH once I hit Inferno. Aesthetically, WD is the most pleasing.

    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
  • ExpigatorExpigator Registered User regular
    I'm interested in the monk changes to see if we can change our skills from the standard 'monk set'. But i'll have my fingers ready to jump on that WD when they make him a god!

    Oh and _J_, i'm in the same boat as you. Make mf switching either impossible or a pain in the ass to pull off, make people play the entire time with the same gear. If you have to kill all the champs down to 1 and then switch all your gear, something ain't right. I've been collecting mf gear for all classes at this point.

    "Look out here comes"..."Susan"..."Suuuuuuuuuuuuusan".
    "Woah, I just scared myself!"
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    The Wicked Wind build is the most blatantly broken thing currently in the game. Crit procs are just not supposed to work that way. Of all the skills that you can use with Critical Mass, that one rune with that one skill is the only thing that allows you to proc it so many times that you can literally keep up Diamond Skin indefinitely while also freezing all the monsters indefinitely. Come on.

    That isn't an argument. It is a philosophy.

    The proc coefficients are a system designed with a specific intent in mind, and that is to more or less regulate the frequency of these procs. As they pointed out, it's not just crits - that ratio is also used for Life on Hit and all other procs, including the newly amazing Legendary ones. If you leave in place one way to break the system and spam any proc with amazing consistency, now all of a sudden every proc in the game has to be designed with this sort of abuse in mind. It simply doesn't make sense. They should have hotfixed it the moment it surfaced. It's one thing for this to be possible with a godlike gear set that can break the game anyway, but that was not necessary for this build.

    Have you actually played with the build? No, it's not 'necessary' to have amazing gear, but then you'll do 10k damage and get destroyed when you don't have Diamond Skin up against ranged monsters. The builds needs all the usual highly sought after item affixes that all the other classes also want, and when you want a combination of them, be prepared to pay a lot. As for the speculation that legendaries will totally break the game, the build at the very least can't use two-handers, since otherwise only the helm can provide arcane on crit. Barbarians can dual wield the same weapon and use Sprint to get amazing proc rates. Nope. Not convinced.

    V0Gug2h.png
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Wicked Wind getting hit with the big nerf stick I see. Windup was fun while it lasted, but I predicted it would get smacked pretty hard last month. So no surprise really.

    It would be nice if Monks, rather than Wizards, became the indestructible tanks they should be.

    I have to say that overall with the Wizard preview, I am disappoint, but this mentality is perhaps a bit prematurely fatalistic. WW wasn't the only skill that triggered CM in the windup build, EB with Chain Reaction does its fair share of work too. I would also argue that even with my own modest crit rate, all my skills recycle essentially instantly. If I have to spend a little more on some gear to up my crit % a little bit and my recycle times only slow down slightly, I don't think it will hurt the windup build too badly, especially with lower elite hps overall.

    But yeah, a preview that boils down to "we're going to try to make the other runes as good as venom hydra, and oh yeah there's a WW nerf incoming" is really limp.

  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    CH-CH-CH-CHANGES!

    Looking forward to doing another run with this new patch.

  • AnakinOUAnakinOU Registered User regular
    I'm also disappointed with the Wizard changes preview...mainly because there wasn't much "meat" there. "We like hydras, will change them somehow. Eventually. We're nerfing twisters. And don't forget hydras!" The only number mentioned was the twister nerf, otherwise, we got no specifics at all. :(

  • LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    I find it weird that they're focusing on the 2 strongest classes first. You'd think they'd achieve more by giving WDs some love.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Expigator wrote: »
    Oh and _J_, i'm in the same boat as you. Make mf switching either impossible or a pain in the ass to pull off, make people play the entire time with the same gear. If you have to kill all the champs down to 1 and then switch all your gear, something ain't right. I've been collecting mf gear for all classes at this point.

    I'm glad people are coming around to the self-evident point I made at launch.


    They may have started with Barb / Sorc in a sort of "saved the best for last" buildup thing.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Rofflor wrote: »
    So in light of all these changes and how builds are now.

    Why in the fuck was Neather tentacles nerfed to oblivion? And will they revert the changes to it somehow?
    Whirlwind barbs, Wizards with super op builds and other shit is still in, but neather tentacles was somehow "to op".

    Something something life steal something something.

    The actual issue is that it didn't work quote correctly unquote. One nether tentacle could hit a mob multiple times if the tentacle was slowed, or the mob's hit box was large enough. That's why the skill was so awesome at release: One tentacle could hit a mob three times under ideal conditions.

  • ConstrictorConstrictor The Dork Knight SuburbialandRegistered User regular
    It worked the way it was designed to work. It was supposed to be uber powerful but because Inferno mobs hit so stupidly hard on release, kiting/never get hit builds were the strongest and people were fucking pissed off at the demon hunters. Blizzard over-reacted and nerfed the shit out of them, while cutting mob damage in half and adding reflect damage and unavoidable damage as much as possible.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It worked the way it was designed to work. It was supposed to be uber powerful but because Inferno mobs hit so stupidly hard on release, kiting/never get hit builds were the strongest and people were fucking pissed off at the demon hunters. Blizzard over-reacted and nerfed the shit out of them, while cutting mob damage in half and adding reflect damage and unavoidable damage as much as possible.

    Really? It was supposed to hit mobs multiple times?

    That is news to me.

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Ok, so I just made it to act 3 inferno. Is there a good farming run here for a DH or should I keep farming act 1/2? I have 200 MF, 62k dps (132k w/SS), 30k life, 3700 armor, 330 resists (still need to get MF on my boots, helm, and upgrade on my last ring). Running a similar build to _J_ except swapping out evasive fire for Rain of Vengeance/Stampede for CC.

  • ConstrictorConstrictor The Dork Knight SuburbialandRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    It worked the way it was designed to work. It was supposed to be uber powerful but because Inferno mobs hit so stupidly hard on release, kiting/never get hit builds were the strongest and people were fucking pissed off at the demon hunters. Blizzard over-reacted and nerfed the shit out of them, while cutting mob damage in half and adding reflect damage and unavoidable damage as much as possible.

    Really? It was supposed to hit mobs multiple times?

    That is news to me.

    Considering that's the way they originally coded it and that's the way that ball lightning -still- works, I would say yes? They nerfed it as part of their 'fuck you demonhunters' patch. So many changes that patch were just blatantly designed to screw over demon hunters.

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    I find it weird that they're focusing on the 2 strongest classes first. You'd think they'd achieve more by giving WDs some love.

    Giving out WD changes on a Wednesday vs Thursday does not seem like a significant difference in the "love" amount to me.
    It worked the way it was designed to work. It was supposed to be uber powerful but because Inferno mobs hit so stupidly hard on release, kiting/never get hit builds were the strongest and people were fucking pissed off at the demon hunters. Blizzard over-reacted and nerfed the shit out of them, while cutting mob damage in half and adding reflect damage and unavoidable damage as much as possible.

    Not a fan of Gloom, I take it? Anyway the idea of DHs being a "nerfed" class is rather silly. It's still an extremely effective and fast MF farming class. Probably still the best. Having to slow down the tiniest bit by taking defensive skills or gear is not some unusual or crippling burden being placed on Demon Hunters.

    Don't really buy the idea that Blizzard wanted NT to be the only hatred spender that any DH ever used.

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  • SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    It worked the way it was designed to work. It was supposed to be uber powerful but because Inferno mobs hit so stupidly hard on release, kiting/never get hit builds were the strongest and people were fucking pissed off at the demon hunters. Blizzard over-reacted and nerfed the shit out of them, while cutting mob damage in half and adding reflect damage and unavoidable damage as much as possible.

    Really? It was supposed to hit mobs multiple times?

    That is news to me.

    Considering that's the way they originally coded it and that's the way that ball lightning -still- works, I would say yes? They nerfed it as part of their 'fuck you demonhunters' patch. So many changes that patch were just blatantly designed to screw over demon hunters.

    Ball lightning does half damage per hit, hitting regular targets twice to do the listed 155%, which suggests it was actually designed that way. NT was just hitting for listed damage multiple times. I mean, I was killing azmodan faster than I do now with like one third the dps.

  • ExpigatorExpigator Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    monk is up, just can't view from this computer. Can someone paste it in here?

    Edit - Caught it on my phone. Nothing massive, few people may use SSS more often now.

    Expigator on
    "Look out here comes"..."Susan"..."Suuuuuuuuuuuuusan".
    "Woah, I just scared myself!"
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Monk Monk
    The most important changes for the monk in 1.0.4 are aimed at improving damage-focused Spirit Spenders. We're happy with where Spirit Generators are right now, but unfortunately once you have Spirit, there aren’t very many appealing ways to use it. In many cases, the most effective use of Spirit has been to recast a Mantra repeatedly for the three-second bonus. While this is certainly one possibility, it doesn't seem as exciting as using one of the more offensively-focused Spirit Spenders (or at least having that option available).

    Spirit Spenders
    Exploding Palm: From a strict usability standpoint, we think the visuals for Exploding Palm can be a little difficult to interpret. It's hard to tell who's affected by the Bleed and who's being damaged by the resulting explosion. Our Visual Effects team has made some improvements in 1.0.4 which will make it easier for players to tell who's bleeding and who's getting damaged.
    From a mechanics standpoint, the three-second Bleed can make the explosion hard to pull off, and the damage just doesn't seem enough to be worth the Spirit cost. To help with both of these issues, we’re increasing the duration of the Bleed to nine seconds as well as its damage per second, which should make it more likely that monsters you’ve touched with Exploding Palm will go boom when they die.

    Current: 220% weapon damage over 3 seconds 1.0.4: 745% weapon damage over 9 seconds

    (Don't worry, Impending Doom is also having its duration increased to 15 seconds.) “...we’ll be doing a straight damage increase to Seven-Sided Strike to make it an attractive option for those who are looking for a skill that really packs a punch...”
    Seven-Sided Strike: The original intent for Seven-Sided Strike was for it to be a solid damage dealer that you could use for a quick burst. Where Serenity granted you an amazing period of invulnerability, and your other combat skills could put out some damage, Seven-Sided Strike would ideally exist somewhere in the middle by offering some invulnerability and some damage. Unfortunately, the way it currently plays out, Seven-Sided Strike feels more like a bad version of Serenity, and the damage just doesn’t seem worth it. To address this, we’ll be doing a straight damage increase to Seven-Sided Strike to make it an attractive option for those who are looking for a skill that really packs a punch.
    The damage buff to Seven Sided Strike is significant. And although players rarely complain when a skill gets buffed, it does leave one wondering why a lower damage existed in the first place.
    The answer is: our initial design was flawed in several ways. To get the skill where it needed to be, we identified three distinct problems that were plaguing not only Seven-Sided Strike, but other class skills as well, and each problem merited a damage increase. •First, we're upping the damage of many skills with longer cooldowns in 1.0.4. Across all classes, if I can only hit a button once every so often, it needs to dole out some significant damage to justify the spot on my bar. While some skills, like Archon and Wrath of the Berserker, are significant enough to make the cut, there are a lot of skills that need DPS improvements to make their cooldowns worthwhile. Indeed, many monks use Seven-Sided Strike for the brief invulnerability, not the damage. •Second, we're also upping the damage on skills that spend Spirit. As mentioned in the introduction, Spirit Spenders are getting buffed because the Spirit cost needs to be weighed against the benefit of using that Spirit on something else -- such as refreshing your Mantra. •Third, we're taking a hard look at distinctive, class-defining skills that create better tension on your skill bar. We'd like to promote skills that help to fulfill the fantasy of a class; skills that make you feel happy that you chose the class you did. Since the fantasy of a monk involves being fast, agile, and hard to hit, Seven-Sided Strike seemed like a natural candidate.
    We looked at making these improvements across all skills and all classes, and Seven-Sided Strike benefitted all three times. As a result, the 1.0.4 version of the skill is incredibly potent (we'll save the details for the patch notes).
    Wave of Light: Wave of Light is the kind of skill that just needs to do way more damage. It has a big Spirit cost, but it doesn’t seem to pay off based on the amount of Spirit invested into it. In general, we’d like Lashing Tail Kick to be a skill that’s good against a small number of targets and feels relatively "spammable," and for Wave of Light to be a skill that’s more of an investment -- something that you don’t use as frequently, but pays out with bigger damage numbers when you actually do hit the button.

    Current: 215% weapon damage as Holy + 45% damage as AoE 1.0.4: 390% weapon damage as Holy + 45% damage as AoE

    This is just for the base skill. Wall of Light, Explosive Light, and Pillar of the Ancients damage has also been buffed up by a fair amount.

    Passives “...if we do make changes we'll do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing...”
    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks. While "mandatory" passives aren't great, making any major change would do more harm than good, particularly when a) incoming damage is so high and b) monks need the extra durability in order to survive. Additionally, as a result of this passive, monks are more heavily tied to their current gear, so making changes to One With Everything would have very noticeable negative repercussions to the gear monks have invested in.
    While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.
    Last but not least, we added the ability for monks to wield two-handed weapons in 1.0.3, along with supporting animations. This has allowed some monks who enjoy two-handers to play this way, but it's not always effective. In the Systems Preview, we mentioned that two-handed melee weapons are getting a buff, and that will help. As additional support, the Spirit generation bonus granted by The Guardian's Path is going to be increased from 25% to 35%.

  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    Wicked Wind getting hit with the big nerf stick I see. Windup was fun while it lasted, but I predicted it would get smacked pretty hard last month. So no surprise really.

    It would be nice if Monks, rather than Wizards, became the indestructible tanks they should be.

    I have to say that overall with the Wizard preview, I am disappoint, but this mentality is perhaps a bit prematurely fatalistic. WW wasn't the only skill that triggered CM in the windup build, EB with Chain Reaction does its fair share of work too. I would also argue that even with my own modest crit rate, all my skills recycle essentially instantly. If I have to spend a little more on some gear to up my crit % a little bit and my recycle times only slow down slightly, I don't think it will hurt the windup build too badly, especially with lower elite hps overall.

    But yeah, a preview that boils down to "we're going to try to make the other runes as good as venom hydra, and oh yeah there's a WW nerf incoming" is really limp.

    Sure it's not the only skill, but it's the one that makes the Windup build come together.

    It was simply too good. It made the Wizard an untouchable melee class. One of the difficulties of Inferno is managing spikes in your health. Wizards were simply not meant to have Diamond Skin up ad infinitem in order to completely ignore their health globe.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    The 'One With Everything' section was kinda strange. "One With Everything is mandatory. We don't want it to be mandatory. But the structure of the game / class makes it mandatory. So, we're leaving it alone."

    ...ok. That's useful to know. I guess?

    ShenBeyond Normal
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    might be a warning sign

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    The 'One With Everything' section was kinda strange. "One With Everything is mandatory. We don't want it to be mandatory. But the structure of the game / class makes it mandatory. So, we're leaving it alone."

    ...ok. That's useful to know. I guess?

    At least they're acknowledging the skill is mandatory even if they don't want it to be. Instead of throwing their hands up in the air and saying, "Whelp, we just can't get rid of that or change it whatsoever!", they do know something needs to be done, even if it can't be done right away.

    I like that they're being up front about it; if nothing else, keeps people who recognize it as an obvious flaw from bitching and moaning.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    My "friend" (as in added to friends list but don't know IRL) was making Windup work with like 25% crit rate. I'm sure he'll still be able to do it if he gets his crit rate to 40%+ like most crit focused specs have to do.

  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I think they realized they painted themselves into a corner on One With Everything. They simply can't make a major change to what is essentially a mandatory passive without completely fucking every monk who's stacking a single resist.
    forty wrote: »
    My "friend" (as in added to friends list but don't know IRL) was making Windup work with like 25% crit rate. I'm sure he'll still be able to do it if he gets his crit rate to 40%+ like most crit focused specs have to do.

    I think this is pretty much the case. Increase your crit rate to make up for the lower proc rate and Windup will be fine. I'm running at 36.5% total, I think I'll probably be allright.

    Cog on
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks.

    That was definitely the correct first sentence to start that section with. Unfortunately everything that came afterwards was pretty lame. I trust that they will eventually come up with a solution, but I'm not exactly thrilled to hear "this passive is so broken we can't actually figure out how to unbreak it without making you replace all of your gear".

    Overall positive, but man monk passives are a shitty situation and they're just sending it down the river a bit.

    Scosglen on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    does hydra proc CM at all or is it still with the zero loh means zero cm

  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    Alas, I am underwhelmed by those monk changes. I'd say "Maybe there's a legendary out there that'll change up my play style like that new Three Hundredth Spear", but relying on a drop that I cannot afford and will never obtain on my own is silly.

    Hopefully there'll be something relevant to my interests in the magic find post.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    does hydra proc CM at all or is it still with the zero loh means zero cm

    Hydra procs nothing. Zero LoH = Zero CM. All procs are tied to a single coefficent, which I think is a pretty stupid system, personally. They should uncouple those.

  • SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    All the bitching and moaning on bnet forums has driven blizzard into this corner where they're scared shitless to nerf any class. It was crystal clear to anyone looking at the skill calculator even before the game was released that skills like Revenge, Battle Rage and OWE are overpowered as fuck, but I guess blizz will try to build up some good will before they dare to nerf these crybabies' little skills.

  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    wait, i thought the new three hundredth spear unique buff was for throw barbs?

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    The monk changes are exactly what I expected. Tweaks to stuff they want us to use more, and not much else. The class was easily the most complete and ready to play out of the box when D3 released, so this shouldn't be shocking.

    While I agree Blizzard is timid with the nerf hammer right now, I think their stance on OWE is the correct one (for now). If they nerfed it, Monks would be in a really bad spot. The reason that OWE is a mandatory passive (which isn't ideal), is because it's currently required for monks to be survivable in a meaningful way. It's not ideal, but to nerf it just to nerf it at this point would just do more harm than good.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Is OWE "mandatory" in an absolute sense or is it just because most of the other monk passives aren't that good and it makes gearing up a monk cheaper? Like I don't see why a monk couldn't in theory skip OWE and just load up on AR like barbs and WDs(?) have to do -- if the other passives were better and felt like viable alternatives.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Scosglen wrote: »
    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks.

    That was definitely the correct first sentence to start that section with. Unfortunately everything that came afterwards was pretty lame. I trust that they will eventually come up with a solution, but I'm not exactly thrilled to hear "this passive is so broken we can't actually figure out how to unbreak it without making you replace all of your gear".

    Overall positive, but man monk passives are a shitty situation and they're just sending it down the river a bit.

    It's a tough problem to fix. You released the game with a passive that allowed monks to stack a single resist + all resist and then equalize out. You also balanced monk survivibiity around this passive. Now barring that it was a train wreck they should have seen coming, we're here now...so what do you do? It requires a comprehensive fix, because just nerfing it or changing it would leave quite literally every level 60 monk in the game in a shitty place.

    It needs to be fixed, but I agree with them punting it. Wait until this huge wave of balance changes goes in, then think about a comprehensive way to fix OWE.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    you get more maximum all resist by using it since you stack all resist AND a specific element

    it's probably not mandatory, but it's competitively good and makes gearing cheaper at the same time

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    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    Wicked Wind getting hit with the big nerf stick I see. Windup was fun while it lasted, but I predicted it would get smacked pretty hard last month. So no surprise really.

    It would be nice if Monks, rather than Wizards, became the indestructible tanks they should be.

    I have to say that overall with the Wizard preview, I am disappoint, but this mentality is perhaps a bit prematurely fatalistic. WW wasn't the only skill that triggered CM in the windup build, EB with Chain Reaction does its fair share of work too. I would also argue that even with my own modest crit rate, all my skills recycle essentially instantly. If I have to spend a little more on some gear to up my crit % a little bit and my recycle times only slow down slightly, I don't think it will hurt the windup build too badly, especially with lower elite hps overall.

    But yeah, a preview that boils down to "we're going to try to make the other runes as good as venom hydra, and oh yeah there's a WW nerf incoming" is really limp.

    Sure it's not the only skill, but it's the one that makes the Windup build come together.

    It was simply too good. It made the Wizard an untouchable melee class. One of the difficulties of Inferno is managing spikes in your health. Wizards were simply not meant to have Diamond Skin up ad infinitem in order to completely ignore their health globe.

    Untouchable, no. There's a shielding pack and you have to get out of there because you're not procing any more and your diamond skin just got ripped off. Or some frozen bombs are about to go off. Or you're fighting Blood Clan Occultists who split up, run out of your tornadoes and hit you with ranged attacks that completely strip your diamond skin and remove half your health globe.

    True, there are packs you absolutely destroy with the build, but it's far from untouchable. Anyway thinking about it more they said they wanted to keep the build viable but that's difficult to envision with such a drastic nerf to the proc rate. Half the CD reduction, half the AP generation, half the LOH? That's going to be rough in A3.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Is OWE "mandatory" in an absolute sense or is it just because most of the other monk passives aren't that good and it makes gearing up a monk cheaper? Like I don't see why a monk couldn't in theory skip OWE and just load up on AR like barbs and WDs(?) have to do -- if the other passives were better and felt like viable alternatives.

    Barbs can get +50% to all resists and 45% armor, while Monks can only get 20% all resists or 20% armor.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    The 'One With Everything' section was kinda strange. "One With Everything is mandatory. We don't want it to be mandatory. But the structure of the game / class makes it mandatory. So, we're leaving it alone."

    ...ok. That's useful to know. I guess?

    At least they're acknowledging the skill is mandatory even if they don't want it to be. Instead of throwing their hands up in the air and saying, "Whelp, we just can't get rid of that or change it whatsoever!", they do know something needs to be done, even if it can't be done right away.

    I like that they're being up front about it; if nothing else, keeps people who recognize it as an obvious flaw from bitching and moaning.

    1) We do not want any skills to be mandatory.

    2) The structure of the game we created manifests a situation within which this skill is mandatory.


    One of those has to go.

    It seems easier to just accept some mandatory skills.

This discussion has been closed.