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Trekkies(ers)... enlighten me.

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    ZampanoZampano Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    Rogue_K wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Enterprise - Worthless. Skip it entirely.

    You should elaborate more. I'm interested in why you feel that way.

    First rule of Star Trek: if an episode involves temporal anomalies, it's probably going to suck.

    Yes, there are exceptions. (TOS - City on the Edge of Forever. TNG - Yesterday's Enterprise. DS9 - Past Tense I & II. The show finale of Voyager.)

    Keeping in mind this rule, I have three simple words for you: Temporal cold war.
    You forgot Trials and Tribbleations for DS9.

    I have an affinity for Enterprise, although I'm not quite sure why. I hold it higher than Voyager, because I think that the whole of Enterprise is better, but the show possesses a lot of individual elements that do not work at all, and completely damage the show from the perspective of either a Trekkie or an unindoctrinated viewer. T'Pol is a terrible Vulcan, for one. It doesn't take long at all for her to start exhibiting emotions. The excuse is that she was exposed to humans for such a long period of time, but that was never a problem for Tuvok. Even Spock held out better than she did, and he was half-human.
    Speaking of T'Pol, her relationship with Trip is the worst, least interesting and most forced romance I've ever seen on Trek. They have zero chemistry, and yet B&B forced it as a primary story arc for almost 2 seasons

    Enterprise also suffered from storyline blueballs. Nothing ever gets resolved with any sort of rewarding climax. Especially the Temporal Cold War, which ended with the episode Stormfront, possibly the worst episode in all of Trek, with the possible exception of Threshold. The last episode is the best example of this. It's best left out of one's viewing entirely.

    However, Enterprise did a lot of things right as well. Scott Bakula made a pretty decent captain, and with the exception of T'Pol, the crew of the Enterprise was fairly interesting. They just get underused, especially Travis and Hoshi.

    The show also has some dynamite arcs, like the Augments, the 2 part Mirror Universe episode, and pretty much anything done by Manny Coto.

    Zampano on
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    AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    First rule of Star Trek: if an episode involves temporal anomalies, it's probably going to suck.

    Yes, there are exceptions. (TOS - City on the Edge of Forever. TNG - Yesterday's Enterprise. DS9 - Past Tense I & II. The show finale of Voyager.)
    Wait, what? How can you forget "Trials and Tribble-ations"? Classic DS9.

    Azio on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    For the record, it's DS9 >>>>> Next Gen >>>> TOS >>>>> A plate of dog shit >> Enterprise >>> whatever would eat a plate of dog shit >>>>> Voyager.

    Voyager is just about the worst thing ever conceived of by man. Piss-poor acting, insanely bad writing (techno-babble deus ex machina endings to almost every episode, bizarre character motivations that appear for a single episode and then disappear forever, dialogue so wooden the cast had to wear gloves holding the script or risk slivers).... it's just endlessly bad. The anti-DS9 if you will.

    In their infinite wisdom Paramount chose the "creative" team behind Voyager instead of the creative team behind DS9 to run Enterprise, which is why that too was miserable drek.

    Senjutsu on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    For the record, it's DS9 >>>>> Next Gen >>>> TOS >>>>> A plate of dog shit >> Enterprise >>> whatever would eat a plate of dog shit >>>>> Voyager.

    Voyager is just about the worst thing ever conceived of by man. Piss-poor acting, insanely bad writing (techno-babble deus ex machina endings to almost every episode, bizarre character motivations that appear for a single episode and then disappear forever, dialogue so wooden the cast had to where gloves holding the script or risk slivers).... it's just endlessly bad. The anti-DS9 if you will.

    In their infinite wisdom Paramount chose the "creative" team behind Voyager instead of the creative team behind DS9 to run Enterprise, which is why that too was miserable drek.

    I agree with this although I made it a point to endure Voyager for the Doctor alone.

    Man the end...
    They just throw Chakotay or however you spell his fucking name, together with 7o9

    And what the fuck is with that tatoo? There's like zero fucking native people I know that tatoo their face and consult their animal guide. None. At all.

    Meiz on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Azio wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    First rule of Star Trek: if an episode involves temporal anomalies, it's probably going to suck.

    Yes, there are exceptions. (TOS - City on the Edge of Forever. TNG - Yesterday's Enterprise. DS9 - Past Tense I & II. The show finale of Voyager.)
    Wait, what? How can you forget "Trials and Tribble-ations"? Classic DS9.

    Those were examples, not an exhaustive list.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    KingMooKingMoo Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Firefly > Star Trek > Battlestar Galactica
    Bashir == Baltar

    KingMoo on
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    !!!!▓▓▓▓▓Gravy?▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!
    !!!!!!▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!!!!
    of doom
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    SynonymousSynonymous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    All I'll say about TNG is that, while I love the majority of it, I only watch episodes occuring Riker A.B. (after beard). I don't know why, but before Riker got the beard, the whole show was painfully hard to watch.

    Good general rule. There're a few good eps in the early years of woe, though. "Q Who". "Measure of a Man". "Home Soil" ("ugly bags of mostly water"), though most people think I'm nuts with that one.

    Synonymous on
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    saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    What irks me is that the moment they get Enterprise going good, they cancel it, and give it the shittiest send off known to man. Season 5 of Enterprise was good TV. Then the last episode was an abortion of an episode.

    saint2e on
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    AngelofVengeanceAngelofVengeance Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    How I rank Science Fiction Series

    Star Wars = Firefly > new Battlestar Galactica > Star Trek > old Battlestar Galactica > a pile of horse shit > Babylon 5

    God did I hate Babylon 5. Oh, and Stargate just sucks greasy monkey balls.

    But I do love my Star Wars. Eat lightsaber bitches!

    ...God I am such a sci-fi nerd.

    AngelofVengeance on
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    So yeah, I agree with a lot of what has been said, especially with regards to:
    jhunter46 wrote:
    BSG = Firefly = Babylon 5 >> Star Trek = Star Wars
    And that's coming from a guy who grew up with TNG.

    My personal order of preference for the series is
    TNG > DS9 >> TOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A big pile of dog shit >>>>>>>>>> having my face shoved in a big pile of dog shit >>>>>>>>>>>> accidentally swallowing some of the dog shit my face has been shoved into >>>>>>>> a tie between Voyager and Enterprise.

    I put TNG before DS9 because it has some of the best Star Trek episodes ever, including of course Best of Both Worlds and Yesterday's Enterprise. It also had Q at his awesomest, as opposed to the angst-filled loser trying to hook up with Janeway he became in Voyager.

    Voyager should be retitled Star Trek: Lost Potential. The premise is having two crews who hate each other, Maquis and Starfleet, trapped together and forced to team up. Of course, by episode 1x03, all differences between them had been forgotten and were never brought up again. Then they adopted a Borg. OMG HATED DEADLIEST ENEMY OF THE FEDERATION ON-BOARD WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT? What happened is that by the next week, she fit in perfectly and everyone liked her. Combined that with the fact that every other episode (including the series finale) involved a time-travelling reset button or a blatant violation of the laws of physics ("there's a fissure in the event horison of that black hole!" "Janeway and Paris super-evolved into toxic-gas-breathing iguanas!") and you'll see why people thought no Star Trek series could be as bad. Until Enterprise came along, of course.

    Enterprise didn't violate Star Trek continuity and canon. It tied it up in bondage gear in a dark basement and raped every hole it could find with sharp pointy objects for months on end. As a prequel, it introduced us to never-before-heard-of wars, never-before-seen places, never-before-encountered aliens, the Temporal Cold War, emotional Vulcans, and did things that were officially done for the first time centuries later in other series. Then of course there's the Xindi crap, which is a metaphore for 9/11 and teaches exactly the right lesson by having the more "like us" Xindi be peaceful moderates, and the more "different from us" Xindi be violent fanatics. You might think things can't go down from there, but they do, thanks to EVIL TIME-TRAVELLING ALIEN NAZIS!!!! And the series finally, which was set in the Enterprise-D holodeck, was like an hour-long shot of Braga flipping fans (what few remained at that point) the finger.

    Richy on
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    Bad KittyBad Kitty Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I don't watch Star Trek much and find most of the series to be inordinately silly. However there were a few episodes in TNG and DS9 which impressed me a great deal such as The Inner Light, Darmok, All Good Things, and that one DS9 episode that features a time-lost Sisko and Jake as an old man. Two of those involve time anomalies, so it's not an inherently bad plot device. All the pew pew pew and techno babble never interested me as much as a good idealistic travelogue story.

    Bad Kitty on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Silly? SILLY?!

    Explain. Meiz, his eyes closed, at Tanagra, breathing heavily.

    Meiz on
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    DS9 really needs to be watched in order to be appreciated. Things that happened in Season 1 still mattered in Season 7.

    If you like BSG, you'll probably like DS9 as well since both were done by Ronald D. Moore.

    jclast on
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    DS9 was nowhere near as character-driven as BSG. There's nowhere near as much continuity or as much character development. It may have been RDM, but it was still Star Trek.

    That said, DS9 was good Trek. It had some of my favourite characters, including Quark, Garak and Dukat. DS9 just had a way of making you not just care about the bad guys, but making you see things their way, making you feel like they were the ones getting the short end of the stick.

    Take Dukat for example. On the surface, he was the brutal leader of the Bajoran occupation. He was responsible for destroying an entire civilsation, reducing its people to slavery, forcing them to strip-mine their own world, killing millions of them in concentration camps, all while keeping himself entertained by taking mistresses from among the slaves. But then we got to learn his side of the story, and we realise that he was the moderate, trying to hold back forces in the Cardassian government who just wanted to kill every last Bajoran in a massive genocide and be done with it. Every time the Bajoran Resistance had a victory, the genocide side in the Cardassian government became stronger, and so Dukat had to retaliate against some Bajorans otherwise he'd lose control and his replacement would retaliate against all Bajorans. We also learned that he was a family man first and foremost; he had a wife and seven children, and an illegitimate daughter Zeal he loved so much that he gave up his carreer, his reputation, his life basically, in order to be with her.

    And then they went and turned him into a stereotypical crazy-evil madman. I don't think I can ever forgive DS9 for ruining such a great character.

    Richy on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Richy wrote: »
    DS9 was nowhere near as character-driven as BSG. There's nowhere near as much continuity or as much character development. It may have been RDM, but it was still Star Trek.

    That said, DS9 was good Trek. It had some of my favourite characters, including Quark, Garak and Dukat. DS9 just had a way of making you not just care about the bad guys, but making you see things their way, making you feel like they were the ones getting the short end of the stick.

    Take Dukat for example. On the surface, he was the brutal leader of the Bajoran occupation. He was responsible for destroying an entire civilsation, reducing its people to slavery, forcing them to strip-mine their own world, killing millions of them in concentration camps, all while keeping himself entertained by taking mistresses from among the slaves. But then we got to learn his side of the story, and we realise that he was the moderate, trying to hold back forces in the Cardassian government who just wanted to kill every last Bajoran in a massive genocide and be done with it. Every time the Bajoran Resistance had a victory, the genocide side in the Cardassian government became stronger, and so Dukat had to retaliate against some Bajorans otherwise he'd lose control and his replacement would retaliate against all Bajorans. We also learned that he was a family man first and foremost; he had a wife and seven children, and an illegitimate daughter Zeal he loved so much that he gave up his carreer, his reputation, his life basically, in order to be with her.

    And then they went and turned him into a stereotypical crazy-evil madman. I don't think I can ever forgive DS9 for ruining such a great character.
    Nonono, see, it goes much deeper than that. Gul Dukat thought of himself as a kind and benevolent ruler "forced" to take harsh action against some to protect others, but there's plenty of evidence that the reality of what happened isn't truly consistent with the way he chooses to characterize that history, that he was man given to grand self-delussion to cope with his flaws, a man not entirely in touch with reality. His demotion and subsequent rejection from Cardassian society thus precipitates his complete decent into madness, his ability to separate reality from fantasy diminishing the more unbearable his reality becomes.

    It's not the sudden turn you're characterizing at all. It's a fairly well characterized descent.

    Senjutsu on
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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    if they ever bring trek back from the dead, im hopinh zephram cochran gets his own comedy spinoff, that would be awesome

    dlinfiniti on
    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    ZampanoZampano Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Voyager did have one thing going for it: Harry Kim, easily the most pathetic character in the history of Trek.

    It's clear that the writers enjoyed tormenting him even more than they did O'Brien.

    Zampano on
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    flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Man, this thread makes me want to get into Star Trek.

    I used to be a big Star Wars fan and for some reason I thought that meant I was not allowed to watch Star Trek, so I've never seen any of the shows or movies, but reading this thread and the wiki articles about the different shows makes it seem super cool.

    Well....not "cool", but...

    flamebroiledchicken on
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    Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Man, this thread makes me want to get into Star Trek.

    I used to be a big Star Wars fan and for some reason I thought that meant I was not allowed to watch Star Trek, so I've never seen any of the shows or movies, but reading this thread and the wiki articles about the different shows makes it seem super cool.

    Well....not "cool", but...

    The coolest part about all the series and all their nuances is that they're all different faces of the same, long, continuous history. We've got forty years of Star Trek, virtually all of it available on DVD. That's alot of fucking time travel/racial commentary/lasers.

    Original Rufus on
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    ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I stand with all those who declare DS9 to be the best of Trek.

    TNG had by far the best captain (Picard) and maybe the best overall character (Data) in Trekdom, but its episodic formula and lack of other compelling characters can't keep up with DS9. And no, TNG doesn't get credit for Worf because Worf was ten times more badass on DS9.

    One of DS9's greatest strongpoints that I think gets frequently overlooked is the fact that it went far deeper into exploring other alien cultures than any other series. With the show taking place on a space station in neutral territory (Bajor wasn't a part of the Federation) there was a lot more opportunity to explore non-Federation culture, and the writers took full advantage of this. The Klingons are more fleshed out in DS9 than in any other series, and the Ferengi went from being the laughingstock of TNG villains to one of the most popular races in all of Trek.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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    SpeedySwafSpeedySwaf Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Zampano wrote: »
    Voyager did have one thing going for it: Harry Kim, easily the most pathetic character in the history of Trek.

    It's clear that the writers enjoyed tormenting him even more than they did O'Brien.
    I was personally fond of the Doctor:
    RobertPicardo1.jpg

    SpeedySwaf on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I agree with everything everybody's said about DS9.

    I do think Voyager gets a bit of a bad rap. Yeah, it sucked for the most part. However, the writing got much better past season 4.

    BTW, the crew didn't totally accept 7 of 9. She creeped a lot of the crew out (especially B'elanna at first) and those who did accept her saw her as a victim of the Borg's brainwashing.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    DuckterPepperDuckterPepper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Rogue_K wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    All I'll say about TNG is that, while I love the majority of it, I only watch episodes occuring Riker A.B. (after beard). I don't know why, but before Riker got the beard, the whole show was painfully hard to watch. Honestly, I still catch episodes of TNG almost everytime I see one on, but I reflexively change the channel if I see clean-shaven Riker. I thought the episodes were pretty much crap, I guess, for the first couple of seasons. I've always been this way.
    Also, I think the Klingon/Picard episodes involving family issues on planet Klingon were always my favorite.

    Most shows don't hit their stride for a couple seasons. Riker growing the beard just happened to coincide with the show finally catching its groove. But yeah, if you see Riker with no beard, change the damn channel.


    ZOMG i thought i was the only one who noticed this. Yes!! Everytime i see Riker without a beard i know i'm not going to enjoy it as much.

    same goes for DS9 ans siskos beard. it just got better the bader he looked (read: more gangsterish)

    DuckterPepper on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    BTW, the crew didn't totally accept 7 of 9. She creeped a lot of the crew out (especially B'elanna at first) and those who did accept her saw her as a victim of the Borg's brainwashing.
    Yes, but only randomly when the plot called for it.

    Like, they'd act like best friends for 5 episodes and then there'd be an "but we are suspicious of her for she was borg!" episode. Far be it from the writers to ever have any act the least bit distrustful around her in other episodes, or hell, even ever act distrustful of her at all. They'll just randomly erupt with "But I do not trust her" speeches that have no basis whatsoever in the way the character acts either before or after that episode, until another episode where it's time to not trust her again.

    It's like the ultimate in bad, tell-don't-show writing.

    Senjutsu on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    BTW, the crew didn't totally accept 7 of 9. She creeped a lot of the crew out (especially B'elanna at first) and those who did accept her saw her as a victim of the Borg's brainwashing.
    Yes, but only randomly when the plot called for it.

    Like, they'd act like best friends for 5 episodes and then there'd be an "but we are suspicious of her for she was borg!" episode. Far be it from the writers to ever have any act the least bit distrustful around her in other episodes, or hell, even ever act distrustful of her at all. They'll just randomly erupt with "But I do not trust her" speeches that have no basis whatsoever in the way the character acts either before or after that episode, until another episode where it's time to not trust her again.

    It's like the ultimate in bad, tell-don't-show writing.

    Um, are you certain you watched the episodes in order?

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    ZsetrekZsetrek Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    BTW, the crew didn't totally accept 7 of 9. She creeped a lot of the crew out (especially B'elanna at first) and those who did accept her saw her as a victim of the Borg's brainwashing.
    Yes, but only randomly when the plot called for it.

    Like, they'd act like best friends for 5 episodes and then there'd be an "but we are suspicious of her for she was borg!" episode. Far be it from the writers to ever have any act the least bit distrustful around her in other episodes, or hell, even ever act distrustful of her at all. They'll just randomly erupt with "But I do not trust her" speeches that have no basis whatsoever in the way the character acts either before or after that episode, until another episode where it's time to not trust her again.

    It's like the ultimate in bad, tell-don't-show writing.

    That was one of Voyager's huge problems - no unity of vision. If you're operating in the absence of longer arcs (ala DS9), you have to have at least some consistency in the story you're telling. TNG did well in that regard, but Voyager was all over the shop.

    I've never sat down and watched the entire of DS9 from beginning to end, but it had by far the most consistent characters and themes, and despite my so-so interest in Trek (my family and I used to watch Voyager every week when I was a kid, and I just lost interest), I'll always watch DS9 whenever it's on TV. TNG had consistent characters. Voyager had neither.

    Anyone ever seen that episode of Futurama where Fry admits that watching Star Trek made him feel like he had friends? Voyager seems to me to have courted that kind of audience response first and foremost. It crossed from drama into full-blown soap far too often.

    Zsetrek on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    BTW, the crew didn't totally accept 7 of 9. She creeped a lot of the crew out (especially B'elanna at first) and those who did accept her saw her as a victim of the Borg's brainwashing.
    Yes, but only randomly when the plot called for it.

    Like, they'd act like best friends for 5 episodes and then there'd be an "but we are suspicious of her for she was borg!" episode. Far be it from the writers to ever have any act the least bit distrustful around her in other episodes, or hell, even ever act distrustful of her at all. They'll just randomly erupt with "But I do not trust her" speeches that have no basis whatsoever in the way the character acts either before or after that episode, until another episode where it's time to not trust her again.

    It's like the ultimate in bad, tell-don't-show writing.

    Um, are you certain you watched the episodes in order?
    Um, yeah. My absolute favorite example of this phenomenon in the episode where Belanna's been suicidal for like several months despite having been perfectly happy in every previous episode that season. Huzzah for inconsistent characterization.

    It wasn't even limited to the characterizations; the writers refused to remain consistent about anything that ever happened in a previous episode. They had this original vision of a hostile crew on a ship with limited resources (energy, torpedos, etc, etc), and ditched it all almost immediately. The two crews meld together in 2 episodes with fewer problems than your average office party. The ship that arrived in an unknown area with only 38 torpedoes to it's name fires over a hundred of them in the course of the show. It's just shitty, lazy writing all around.

    Senjutsu on
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    DuckterPepperDuckterPepper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu: exactly. Not to mention that the ship looked like fresh out of the dock in every episode, even after the worst battles. and yeah, very plausible that marquis rebells wear starfleet uniforms one billion lightyears away from the fleet.

    DuckterPepper on
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    ZsetrekZsetrek Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu: exactly. Not to mention that the ship looked like fresh out of the dock in every episode, even after the worst battles. and yeah, very plausible that marquis rebells wear starfleet uniforms one billion lightyears away from the fleet.

    I love the fact that the Galactica is still absolutely fucked after the Exodus. Further proof that BSG is Voyager as Ron Moore thought it should have been done.

    Zsetrek on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Personally I liked TNG the best. It just felt like the TOS spirit without the camp; that is, exploration of what humanity might become, an idealistic vision of the future. Sure, most of the crew was far too perfect, but that was the point. Also, it had episodes like The Inner Light, Frame of Mind and others that were leaps and bounds above what the rest of TV had to offer, let alone outstanding Star Trek episodes.

    I wanted to like DS9, and I did enjoy the war, but it just didn't feel like it was going anywhere. A Big Twist happened, then they spent 5 episodes with holosuite filler. Repeat until show ends.
    Plus, well, I saw an interview with the guy who wrote DS9 scrips and he's an utter twat, so that didn't leave that great of an aftertaste (this was after having seen the series, mind). ;)

    Glal on
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    GOJIRA!GOJIRA! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    TNG was sort of the same, sans contiguous story arcs.

    Riker is a spacepimp, Data tries to be human, WESLLLLEEEYYYYYY, Doctor has dilemma with X disease on X planet, Giordi has to realign the phase pattern buffers, holodeck goes crazy. Multiply x 3 and you have everything past season 2. Throw in some token Klingon anger and a few paradox episodes.


    DS9 had character development and after the first season or two, a fairly well planned arc that left open the meatiest part of Sci-Fi TV: expanded universes.

    I've read the 8 or so novels that make up the post-Dominion War story so far..
    Sisko comes back, Jake gets married to a Bajoran, and Dax and Bashir do the nasty for a bit then break up

    GOJIRA! on
    "We are cursed," said Iyad Sarraj, a Gaza psychiatrist and a human rights activist. "Our leaders are either Israeli collaborators, asses, or mentally unstable."
    Sounds vaguely familiar...
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    TNG will always be at the top in my mind. I watch TOS now and then for kicks. It really doesn't compare to the other ones, but that is totally understandable given when it was made.

    I like DS9, I agree the first couple seasons were shit but the war with the Dominion was complete awesomeness.

    I watch Voyager because I'm just as bad as all of you but I never really liked it overall. There's the odd episode that is really great (that Krenim time ship episode was mentioned) but overall it just makes me cringe.

    Enterprise I'll watch now and then, I really gave up on (new) star trek by the time this one came out so I haven't even seen them all.

    Al_wat on
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    HybridHybrid South AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I only ever watched Star Trek on and off, never got right into it even though I enjoyed it, but my favourites where TNG, TOS, and DS9. I never really got into voyager at all, and only saw season 1 of Enterprise.

    One episode of DS9 I (vaguely) remember, is one with a cardasian (???) terrorist, who had gone under a face change or something and turned out to be another person. Damned if I can remember exactly what happened now, because I saw it ages ago, but I remember it being a really good episode, so maybe someone can help me figure out what episode it was?

    Hybrid on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    GOJIRA! wrote: »
    TNG was sort of the same, sans contiguous story arcs.
    The same as what? All I said about DS9 was that it had too much filler between the delicious war episodes. Or are you getting hung up on the holodeck part?

    Glal on
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The holodeck was basically one of the worst star trek inventions. There were some cool ideas, like the whole Moriarty thing, but overall it just allowed the WORST story ideas to take place.

    I blame voyager mostly.

    Al_wat on
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    deowolfdeowolf is allowed to do that. Traffic.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The holodeck was basically one of the worst star trek inventions. There were some cool ideas, like the whole Moriarty thing, but overall it just allowed the WORST story ideas to take place.

    I blame voyager mostly.

    So help me if you try to sully the good name of Vic Fontaine it'll be pistols at dawn, sir!

    deowolf on
    [SIGPIC]acocoSig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
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    corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The holodeck was basically one of the worst star trek inventions. There were some cool ideas, like the whole Moriarty thing, but overall it just allowed the WORST story ideas to take place.

    I blame voyager mostly.

    I don't know, it allowed for some set variation beyond "grey, futuristic". To be honest I think any future Star Treks need to take a page out of Firefly and have a proper set made up, give the actors a bit more to relate to. Less generic cardboard corridors please.

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The holodeck was basically one of the worst star trek inventions. There were some cool ideas, like the whole Moriarty thing, but overall it just allowed the WORST story ideas to take place.

    I blame voyager mostly.
    The only saving grace of voyager's holodeck escapades was having Klingons kicking the shit out of Nazis.

    I'd say both Voyager and Enterprise were cases of wasted potential, especially in the case of enterprise. There was SO much they could have explored in the history of the federation but it just seemed like they pretty much ignored it all and went off with bizzare storylines and bringing things that shouldn't happen until far later. Such a waste.

    And goddamn did Enterprise have a horrible themesong.

    -SPI- on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Holodeck wasn't that badly abused in TNG... Voyager was horrible with it though, yes. I was especially annoyed when they used it as 100% accurate simulations of reality.

    "Well, we don't know how this shuttle will fare in that sun's corona. Let's run a holodeck simulation."

    Goddamnit, why not just ask the computer then? Why bother with a frikkin' 3d display? Do you NEED to sit in a virtual shuttle for 45 minutes until its shields fail to know they'll fail?

    Glal on
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    DuckterPepperDuckterPepper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i loved the TNG holodeck episodes with dwight or what was his name (guy from a-team).

    DuckterPepper on
    DuckterPepper

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