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Trekkies(ers)... enlighten me.

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    ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Star Trek 8 is really good. 10 I liked, a lot of people didn't.

    9 never occurred (almost as bad as 5).
    Insurrection? That was just like an overly long episode of the show. It was pretty good; not great, but there are several worse.

    Nemesis on the other hand was an enormous piece of shit. Easily the worst movie of any of them. The "ZOMG search for spock" ending is beyond pathetic.

    The best movies are Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country (which is my favorite), and First Contact.

    Dude... Nemesis was bad, but no fucking way was it as bad as The Final Frontier. The Final Frontier was written and directed by Shatner. They actually gave the reigns to the guy who wrote TekWar. There's no way that Nemesis managed to out-suck The God of Sha-Ka-Ri. No fucking way.
    This is a bit like arguing about whose shit tastes worst.

    I intend to win that argument.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
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    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
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    AngelofVengeanceAngelofVengeance Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think the best Trek was Deep Space Nine. For one reason above all others, the Dominion War, hands down the best plot arc, far above any other in any other Trek series. And DS9 was the first Trek series that actually portrayed the Starfleet vessels as what they were supposed to be, warships used to protect the overseas (or overspace I guess it'd be in Trek) interests of the Federation. Not intergalactic luxury liners like the Enterprise in TNG eventually became.

    AngelofVengeance on
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The entire serise is in serious need of a reboot.
    Well, it's not so much in need of a reboot as it is in need of a clean-up. Like I said, eliminate Voyager and Enterprise from canon, along with most of Season 3 of TOS and Star Trek V. Then iron out some of the remaining inconsistencies, and you'll be set to start anew.

    The franchise still has a lot of good stories in it. Voyager had a good premise, and really Berman and Braga must have worked overtime to find ways to make is suck as much as it did. The Romulan War/Birth of the Federation would be an awesome setting for a series, and was left untouched by Enterprise in favour of EVIL TIME-TRAVELING ALIEN NAZIS. A futuristic spy series with Section 31, fighting back against the Tal-Shiar and the Obsidian Order, would be incredible. Or, get back to the roots, and be a metaphore about social issues. The Romulans could be a good metaphore for the Middle-East. There's a segment of the population on each side that hates and wants to destroy the other, while another segment of the population is pushing for peace. There are Romulan defectors living in the Federation, possibly facing racism. There are ancient religious ties via the Vulcans.

    Richy on
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    Swimming BirdSwimming Bird __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    I always wanted to see a serise that started like a day after the Vulcans made first contact. Have zefram cochran as one of the main cast members, and show the culture clash between Vulcans and humans.

    Swimming Bird on
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    AngelofVengeanceAngelofVengeance Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Heh, anybody else just realise that EVERY alien planet in TOS had a barren, rocky, desert-like surface. Completely devoid of plant life. Every, single one. Guess it's just the limits of a TV budget.

    AngelofVengeance on
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Heh, anybody else just realise that EVERY alien planet in TOS had a barren, rocky, desert-like surface. Completely devoid of plant life. Every, single one. Guess it's just the limits of a TV budget.

    That is completely untrue.

    Al_wat on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I got really bored in class and ranked the movies. From best to worst:

    Undiscovered Country > Wrath of Khan > Voyage Home = First Contact (tie) > Insurrection > Search for Spock > The one with V'ger > Generations > Final Frontier = Nemesis (tie for worst).

    There's a pretty big drop in quality from Search for Spock to the others (ie, everything after that in the list is just sorting degrees of craptacularness)

    Senjutsu on
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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I always wanted to see a serise that started like a day after the Vulcans made first contact. Have zefram cochran as one of the main cast members, and show the culture clash between Vulcans and humans.

    like i said, comedy series centered around zephram cochran, maybe he decides to have a vulcan houseguest and hilarity abounds

    dlinfiniti on
    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    I always wanted to see a serise that started like a day after the Vulcans made first contact. Have zefram cochran as one of the main cast members, and show the culture clash between Vulcans and humans.

    like i said, comedy series centered around zephram cochran, maybe he decides to have a vulcan houseguest with sexy results

    Fixed.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    I got really bored in class and ranked the movies. From best to worst:

    Undiscovered Country > Wrath of Khan > Voyage Home = First Contact (tie) > Insurrection > Search for Spock > The one with V'ger > Generations > Final Frontier = Nemesis (tie for worst).

    There's a pretty big drop in quality from Search for Spock to the others (ie, everything after that in the list is just sorting degrees of craptacularness)
    Insurrection that high? Seriously?

    deadonthestreet on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    It's not like anything below it is any good. At most I could see switching it with Search for Spock. Everything else is horrible where it's at least competent.

    Senjutsu on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Insurrection was a solid movie.
    It wasn't great, but there wasn't anything terribly wrong with it either. All the movies Senj has ranked below it are seriously flawed in one way or another.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well I mean it was just a really long episode of the series. It didn't actually add any story or anything. It was just another adventure of the crew. Nothing important happened.

    Yeah it wasn't bad, it was just kinda pointless. At least that's how I see it.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Search for Spock is actually one of my most hated movies. I'm not going to rank them all, but its pretty far down there.

    Al_wat on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I actually liked it because it felt like an episode of the show on the big screen. I dislike the way some of the films went for gratuitous differences from the show (Generations trashing the Enterprise for shits, Nemesis for....Nemesis), when the show was the only reason I was interested in the film of the first place.

    Senjutsu on
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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    You think Spock ressurecting in a pit of wierd trilobyte things isn't a gratuitious difference?

    I could maybe agree with the whole brainwashing McCoy thing.


    I feel dirty for having written this

    Al_wat on
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    areaarea Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Generations trashing the Enterprise for shits

    But we got the Enterprise E out of it. How is that a bad thing?

    area on
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    DuckterPepperDuckterPepper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    area wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Generations trashing the Enterprise for shits

    But we got the Enterprise E out of it. How is that a bad thing?

    i was so mad at the writers that they didn't Picard rescue his Flute out of the wreck but just some silly book with pictures. That was no fan service at all.

    DuckterPepper on
    DuckterPepper

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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    area wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Generations trashing the Enterprise for shits

    But we got the Enterprise E out of it. How is that a bad thing?
    It was just change for the sake of "woo shiny" change. They've never even bothered to fully flesh-out the Enterprise E.

    It would be like blowing up Serenity and then bringing in a different ship which looks neat but you never get a sense of what's in it or half of how it's laid out.

    Senjutsu on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    I dislike the way some of the films went for gratuitous differences from the show (Generations trashing the Enterprise for shits...
    Kirk destroyed how many Enterprises? ;)

    As a side note, I was never overly thrilled with the concept of Section 31 (I still can't remember if it ended up being real or just a group of people with delusions of grandeur). Both TOS and TNG, as directed by Roddenberry, presented the Federation as the good guys. It had its rotten apples and had too much tied in red tape, but when push came to shove they were the good guys. Then come DS9 and slowly the Federation is turned into pretty much current-time society, except with bigger weapons to wave around. :|

    Glal on
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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Roddenberry's vision was a utopian candy-land (no money, capital-G Good Guys, black and white morality) that may have seemed neat-o in the '60s but seemed desperately out of date by the time of the first couple seasons of TNG. After he died TNG occasionally managed to take it in slightly more realistic dimensions, but of them all only DS9 let its characters behave with any semblance of realistic humanity.

    Senjutsu on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, just like Shadow the Hedgehog.

    Glal on
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    NexusSixNexusSix Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Richy wrote: »
    Riker: "Look, it's the starship Voyager. The first and only Starfleet ship to bear the name. It's just been built, and never went anywhere yet, and definitly not to the Delta Quadrant. I hear they're giving it to Captain Janeway. Err, I mean Wanejay. Not Janeway. There's no one called Janeway anywhere in Starfleet."
    Troi: "BTW, do you want to test my new holodeck program? It's about a fictional warp-five ship called Enterprise, under the command of the totally fictional captain Archer, and bears absolutely no relation to anything that has ever really happened."

    Despite all of the terrible things going on in the world and my cynicism nearing a critical level, that brief dialogue exchange gives me hope for mankind. My letter demanding that you be put in charge of the franchise is already on its way to Paramount. You just have to promise us that the Federation's newly commissioned fleet of Defiant class warships makes regular appearances for lots of kapow! and pew! pew! pew!

    Star Trek TOS? That's classic stuff, people. Does anyone really find episodes like Balance of Terror corny? Don't answer that--it would probably further erode my sad microcosm.

    NexusSix on
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    DarkHawkeDarkHawke Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Something interesting I've noticed: Trek series frequently become awesome when a major bridge character grows a beard.

    TNG became awesome with Riker's beard, likewise DS9 and Sisko. The reason VOY and ENT sucked was not because of a lack of creativity or poor writing or whathaveyou, but because they couldn't stand to give Janeway a little more testosterone. Seriously, just a little stubble I would've been comfortable with.

    DarkHawke on
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    corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm still waiting for a (good) sci-fi tv series where society isn't just a copy of America. Firefly was edging there I guess. 400 years in the future shouldn't just be like modern America. TOS at least pushed some boundaries. All Enterprise had was some shower scenes.

    EDIT: I agree, more beards.

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
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    AibynAibyn Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Glal wrote: »
    Yeah, just like Shadow the Hedgehog.


    Now you've done it. Next incarnation of Star Trek will now be called, "X-treme Star Trek: The Seriously Awesome Generation".


    Seriously though its that Gene Roddenberry ideal is what i loved TNG/TOS so much. That sense of hope that as fucked up as today is, in the future things have a improved. Its fucking depressng, at least in my eyes, that after all the crazy shit thats happened in the Star Trek Universe, they are "except with bigger weapons to wave around. "

    Unless its that new series suggested by the dude who did Babylon 5. Linky (PDF file)

    Aibyn on
    "Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..."

    -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
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    DuckterPepperDuckterPepper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    that PDF file is nice to read. i now don't fear the remake anymore for the next movie.

    DuckterPepper on
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    Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    That PDF is a good read, and if that series ever did come to fruition I would definitely watch.

    EDIT: You know, I just had a thought. Can you imagine what it would be like if they did do a new Star Trek series and they got Nathan Fillion to play Kirk?

    Operative21 on
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    DarkHawkeDarkHawke Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    That PDF is a good read, and if that series ever did come to fruition I would definitely watch.

    EDIT: You know, I just had a thought. Can you imagine what it would be like if they did do a new Star Trek series and they got Nathan Fillion to play Kirk?

    Or Wil Wheaton...

    DarkHawke on
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The universe would implode with irony of the highest caliber. Caliber of awesome.

    Glal on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Somebody brought Up "Darmok" a while back, and I thought You guys might get a kick out of this:

    Three dark moments in star trek

    Gaddez on
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    CantideCantide Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    PDF wrote:
    Had Kirk, Spock and McCoy stumbled upon something that could have a profound effect
    on human history? Had they caught a glimpase of a new and previously unknown race a
    million years ahead of mankind...a race whose secrets could elevate humanity to unparalleled
    levels...a race that left its footprints on a hundred worlds where its touch had changed
    evolution and led to civilization as we know it?
    A race, long thought dead, but which our characters know is still out there
    somewhere...waiting for us...waiting to see if its children can come and find it, there in the
    darkness between the stars....
    And there are others out there, also searching for this race...forces of darkness who may
    view our activities with more than a little hostility.
    One thing we will discover is that buried deep within the DNA of humans, Vulcans (even
    Klingons) and other intelligent bi-pedal races is a mathematical code, something buried so
    deep and of such complexity that it could not possibly have occurred by chance.
    Someone or something put it there… an “artist’s signature” perhaps…

    Anyone else find it amusing that their proposed series spanning plot is the same mystery that Picard was able to solve in a single episode?

    Overall, the reboot sounds interesting, but it's very reminiscent of the Battlestar Galactica remake, right down to the "make a popular character into a woman" idea. Of course, the new Battlestar Galactica is excellent, so maybe I really shouldn't be complaining.

    Cantide on
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    NexusSixNexusSix Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Cantide wrote: »
    Anyone else find it amusing that their proposed series spanning plot is the same mystery that Picard was able to solve in a single episode?

    Yeah, but his powers of observation were friggin' awesome. Four lights, man. Four lights.

    NexusSix on
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    Rogue_KRogue_K Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    How about a new Star Trek series where the Federation has been destroyed and the human race is scattered and in hiding. That would make for an interesting "voyaging ship". Talk about having to tread softly in unknown space.

    "Humans? I thought we GOT THEM ALL... DESTROY THEM!!!



    Maybe a series where on some fledgling world where warp drive technology has been discovered they fly out and find that the human race used to be quite a power in the universe.

    Meh, i'm just talking out of my ass.

    Rogue_K on
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    StormyWatersStormyWaters Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    If they do Trek again I'd like to get back to the more individual episode type stuff that TNG had. I do like arcs, but I also like exploration episodes and crazy anomalies of the week. A quote from B5 sums it up best (G'kar, Season 1, like 3rd episode):
    "There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone."

    That's one of my few problems with BS:G-i just personally prefer the awe/wonder of other races.

    StormyWaters on
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    NexusSixNexusSix Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'd like to get it on the "what if" game too. Here's some ideas I've always wanted to see for a Star Trek series:

    * Kind of like Enterprise: pre-Kirk, early days of the Starfleet, but they actually show more low-tech stuff and the ships are more primitive and like submarines. Archer's Enterprise wasn't all that different from TNG--I've already seen photon torpedoes, phasers and beam transporting. How about some Starfleet vessels with railguns, thrusters and rocket-powered torpedoes? I don't know shit on the mythology for weapon/tech trivia on early Starfleet vessles, so all this is probably pointless babbling. Oh yeah... also, this imaginery series wouldn't completely fuck up canon, mythology or timeline.

    * Starfleet Marines, anyone? Starfleet obviously had to have these guys for some types of military operations, but I never really heard much about them on any of the shows.

    * A group of ships--either several Starfleet vessels working as a group or a neutral/enemy vessels having to work with a Starfleet ship. As stated earlier, Voyager could have explored the dynamics of this situation, but totally fucked up.

    * Later timeline--maybe 29th or 30th century. The fall of the Federation. Dark shit: Star Trek's morality meets dealing with the fact that all things come to an end. Lots of war, political intrigue, and death.

    Or, they could just do another ship/captain show, but with a Defiant and some maniac at the helm: "Star Trek: We Kill Every Mothfucker We See."

    NexusSix on
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    StormyWatersStormyWaters Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My buddies once wrote up a big thing on ST they'd like to see. I can't remember a ton, one point was they wanted an Army/Navy distinction. Navy flies the ships, Army does ground invasion and beams onto enemy ships, stuff like that. Could lead to nice tension between humans on the ship between the Colonel of the ground troops and the Captain of the ship, etc.

    Also, the main plot they had was the episode of TNG predicting warp drives were destroying space was true. So all communication (no subspace), commerce, etc, shut down and the races are scrambling to figure out how to get back into spacefaring. If I remember right, they wanted the warp stuff to shut down in a massive failure all at once, just as Borg were attacking Earth, which resulted in a Borg cube sitting in the sky (nonoperable due to no communications) and the humans being incredibly afraid of an attack, resulting in a massive military scramble. Someday I'll have to see if they ever wrote it down :P

    StormyWaters on
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    Swimming BirdSwimming Bird __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Does anyone else wonder why on every single dangerous away mission they only send their senior most crew to investigate?

    At least on TNG Riker didn't allow Picard a lot of times to attend, but, c'mon, Riker's still the number two guy, and takes with him numbers three, four and five. Seems like they should be getting some grunts to investigate. Or some actual military officals, as Picard and Co are explorers, not soldiers.

    Swimming Bird on
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    ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My buddies once wrote up a big thing on ST they'd like to see. I can't remember a ton, one point was they wanted an Army/Navy distinction. Navy flies the ships, Army does ground invasion and beams onto enemy ships, stuff like that. Could lead to nice tension between humans on the ship between the Colonel of the ground troops and the Captain of the ship, etc.

    Also, the main plot they had was the episode of TNG predicting warp drives were destroying space was true. So all communication (no subspace), commerce, etc, shut down and the races are scrambling to figure out how to get back into spacefaring. If I remember right, they wanted the warp stuff to shut down in a massive failure all at once, just as Borg were attacking Earth, which resulted in a Borg cube sitting in the sky (nonoperable due to no communications) and the humans being incredibly afraid of an attack, resulting in a massive military scramble. Someday I'll have to see if they ever wrote it down :P

    They already fixed the problem of warp drive disrupting subspace with "variable geometry pylons," which was some pretty retarded deus ex machina tech. Voyager had them, that's why her nacells would move to an angled position before she went to warp.

    The Enterprise-E was also able to travel past the warp 5 limit without disrupting subspace, but that was due to alterations in engine design or something, since her nacells didn't move when she went to warp. The Prometheus from "Message in a Bottle" shared this improved design.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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    shutzshutz Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    About the movies:

    I actually liked Nemesis, and felt that it was almost as good as First Contact. It was a shame that either the actor they picked to play Shinzon just wasn't very good, or they didn't direct him well, or else they just didn't write very good dialogue for him. Otherwise the film could have rivaled Wrath of Khan (which is what they were aiming for.) I think they tried too hard to give Picard a Nemesis, to the point where it all seems very contrived, which is a problem with a lot of plots and characters in TNG and later (especially Voyager and Enterprise).

    My favorite is still Wrath of Khan. It's got the right kind of space battles (slow, submarine-style, not actiony like other movies have tried and failed) and it has the best villain ever.

    The Motion Picture I used to hate about as much as everybody, but two things made me like it a lot more: first, I picked up the excellent "Star Trek: Phase II" book that tells the story of the aborted second Trek series that would have started at the end of the 70's, and whose pilot was reworked into this movie. You even get the script for that original pilot, and it has more character development and more interesting/human dialogue than the finished movie. You also get scripts for some of the other episodes the series would have had, including two that were reworked for TNG: "The Child" and "Devil's Due".

    The second thing I got which made me like the movie even more was the recent Director's Cut, which includes new FX scenes (that were made to look like they fit with the 70's sets and FX, so they don't stand out like the Star Wars special editions...) and just a better all-around cut of the film that flows better. It still has the very long scenes of the Enterprise flying around V'Ger and all, but I find I can go back and watch it again, once in a while.

    So, my order for the movies is:

    2 > 4 > 6 > 8 > 10 = 3 > 1 > 7 > 9 > 5

    The Search for Spock might be higher in the list, but there was a time when I was still a kid, but also a fan, where we had a version of the movie that was taped off the TV, from a French channel (I live in Québec) where they had cut some of the funnier scenes (McCoy in the bar, parts of the Mr. Adventure scene, and so forth.) It made the movie feel a bit less interesting, and I'm still stuck with that feeling now that I have a full cut of the movie. Also, Kirstie Alley in TWoK >>>>> Robin Curtis in TSfS, even though Robin Curtis really does try hard.

    shutz on
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