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Don't know how lucky you are, back in the NCR [Fallout thread]

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  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    See, OWB is great DLC.

    But Shadowbroker is just so amazing.

    I'd put OWB right behind Shadowbroker though.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Hagalaz is pretty.
    101 wrote: »
    Ok OWB is amazing.

    Heck it's amazing for the new radio station alone, but it's just fantastically weird

    It has Wild Wasteland content, too.

  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Proud Father House GardenerRegistered User regular
    I'm about to give up on playing this all modded out.
    All I really want is AWOP, Bison Steve, Afterschool Special, New Vegas Bounties 1 & 2, and some New Vegas Restoration.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    See, OWB is great DLC.

    But Shadowbroker is just so amazing.

    I'd put OWB right behind Shadowbroker though.

    i know im strange

    but my favorite dlc technically is an expansion for everquest but its semantics, Planes of Power, followed by general knoxx, and then OWB.

    I blame gamebryo however, no matter how great a dlc you shove onto it, its still sitting on top of a piece of shit.


  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    More so than Fallout 3. There should be snippets on youtube or whatever.

    Edit:

    Haven't done a low-int playthrough of my own yet, but from the fallout wiki the best low-int line in the game is:

    When you go to Helios One the first time the guard asks you what your business there is. If your int is 7 or above you can say "My interest in this place is scientific". If your int is below 3 you say "I is scientistic" instead.

    You can also randomly yet "ICE CREAM!" at a robot at one point which turns out to be the password it was expecting. You'd otherwise need a luck score of 7 to guess it.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    If they do end up making a Fallout based around Boston and the Institute, I wonder if Bethesda will be able to resist revealing the protagonist to be an android by the end of the main quest. New vault intro and or family revealed to be implanted memories, etc.

    Been rampaging around the Mojave with the K9000 Cyberdog gun. I had forgotten how amazing this thing was, probably the only weapon to rival my love of the holorifle.

    Dr. Chaos on
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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    The protagonist always seems to end up more cyb than org anyway. And the org is glow-in-the-dark, cross-species mutant all the way down.

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Mild irony: The purest human protagonist in the series?

    The one from the game where you can recruit ghouls and robots. All the other Fallouts let you cyborg up and/or get some downright freaky mutations. In Tactics, you can't go that far into the weird with Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    Makes up for it with everyone else, though.

  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Tim Cain Interview

    Full Interview: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8416

    Excert:
    In an earlier interview, you admitted Fallout's AI was "very simple," but you also said it was the best you could do because you "ran into all the problems rules-based systems have." Can you talk a bit about what those problems are?

    Rule-based AI runs into a lot of the problems that “expert systems” run into. They are very brittle systems, with a set of unchanging rules that may not cover every case. So you end up using default rules, which don't often lead to very intelligent actions. Fallout's AI was very much rule-based and brittle, and if I were to make it again, I would use fuzzy logic with a variety of parameters, and some of those parameters would be available to the player, so he could tell his followers to act more defensively or to wait for the player before reacting to potential targets.
    Given that you left Interplay midway through Fallout 2's development, how did the resulting game differ from the original design you had in mind for it?

    I don't remember the specific details of my plans for Fallout 2, but I do remember playing the game and seeing it was different from the storyline I had proposed for it. I think my biggest disappointment with the game is that each area was made in almost complete isolation from the others. There was no over-arching theme and no attempt to make sure the different areas were cohesive. It felt like a lot of Fallout-y areas, placed adjacently and connected with a storyline. Those areas were individually well-done, but they suffered from the lack of a strong central design.
    You claimed to enjoy Fallout 3, and I'm going to assume you also enjoyed Fallout: New Vegas. From a design standpoint, how would you compare Fallout 3 and New Vegas? What did New Vegas do differently from Fallout 3, in your view?

    I did enjoy both Fallout 3 and New Vegas. I know that surprised some of my fans, who wanted me to hate the games and rail against their design choices (which I have repeatedly pointed out were different than the ones I would have made), but there is no arguing that more people enjoy the modern versions of the franchise than the older ones.

    If I were to compare the two games, I would say that Fallout New Vegas felt like it captured the humor and style of the Fallout universe better than Fallout 3, but I have to hand it to the FO3 designers for developing VATS, a cool twist on called shots for a real-time game. I also loved the set decoration FO3. There was so much destruction, yet obviously everything had been meticulously hand-placed. So much story was told entirely through art. I ended up naming these little art vignettes and creating side stories in my head about what had happened. There was "The Suicide", a dead guy in a bathtub with a shotgun, and I figured he just couldn't handle life after the bombs. There was "Eternal Love", a couple of skeletons in a bed in a hotel room, forever embracing each other. There was "My Last Mistake", the corpse in the temporary one-man fallout shelter which obviously didn't do its job of keeping out the heat and radiation. My favorite was "Desperate Gamble", where I found a feral ghoul in an underground shelter filled with lab supplies and lots of drugs... except for Rad-X. I imagined that a scientist found himself irradiated and desperately tried to synthesize some Rad-X to cure himself before he succumbed, but he was too slow. I did notice that whatever was left of his mind sure did seem to enjoy toilet plungers.

    If I had to pick something I didn't like about FO3, I would pick its ending. I hated the ending. There, I said it. I didn't like the sudden problem with the purifier, and I especially didn't like the lack of real, meaningful multiple endings beyond what I chose in the final few minutes (FEV or not, me or Lyons, and that was it?). But the worst thing about the ending was there was no mention of the fate of places I had visited. In my head I had already imagined slides for Megaton, the Citadel, Rivet City, Underworld, GNR, the Enclave or the mysterious Commonwealth. But I got... pretty much nothing.

    I liked FONV's ending much better. It had a nice set of slides at the end of the game. They covered everything I was wondering about. I went with Mr. House at the end... and that seemed a worse choice after the slides, but still OK. It led to a law-abiding but somewhat impersonal Vegas. I wish I didn't have to kill the BoS, but I want House to control the future, so I had to do it. It was a great morally ambiguous choice, and the decision made me pause. That's a sign of good design, right there.

    Edit: OffTopic, but cool
    It is known that Arcanum’s sequel, Journey to the Center of Arcanum, was supposed to be a first person game using the Source engine and eventually led to Bloodlines. Can you tell us more about the plans Troika had for the project? Are there any details you can share about the setting, story or gameplay you wanted the sequel to have?

    The sequel was based loosely on Jules Verne's A Journey to the Center of the Earth, where we planned to continue the adventures of the great explorer Franklin Payne. He has disappeared into the bowels of the earth, and his wife has hired you to find him. We had laid out most the storyline, and it included finding prehistoric monsters, subterranean humanoids, and most thrilling of all, a clue about how magic and tech can be reconciled in the same artifact, something that most learned people had believed to be impossible. Of course, none of this came to be, but our talks about using the Source engine led to our making Vampire: Bloodlines.

    C2B on
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Great, now I'm going to be bummed all day knowing that Troika had originally planned for VtM:Bloodlines to be an Arcanum sequel/spinoff...

    Though, to be honest, Bloodlines was worth it.

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  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Great, now I'm going to be bummed all day knowing that Troika had originally planned for VtM:Bloodlines to be an Arcanum sequel/spinoff...

    Though, to be honest, Bloodlines was worth it.

    Both projects could theoretically have happened, though. Still a real shame.

    This too:
    Temple of Elemental Evil featured what is to this day the best translation of D&D to the PC. Sadly, there only was one game using that engine. Were there any plans to keep using it for other games, or perhaps license it to other developers, in a manner similar to the Infinity and Gold Box engines?

    Yes, we had great plans for that engine. For the sequel to The Temple of Elemental Evil, Troika proposed using the super-module GDQ: Queen of the Spiders, which consists of seven modules from the popular Giants and Drow series, plus the special Q-series module that completed the adventure. In fact, we were going to let the players bring their characters over from ToEE directly into the QoS, so they could simply continue playing with the same group of characters. Alternatively, we had suggested using the engine to create the long-awaited Baldur's Gate 3, and Obsidian had also expressed interest in licensing the engine to make D&D licensed games. Unfortunately, Atari never followed up on any of these proposals.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    I'm surprised he called FO2 on discontinuities, but not FO3

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I remember one of them one-man-shelters where you could tell what had gone wrong, I think. I wish I remembered the details. Might have been some item in it, or that the door wasn't closed. Like that.

    Going to use the Run Goodsprings, Run exploit for 20-something levels, grab the unarmed special moves, and walk around smashing faces, I guess.

  • DeaderinredDeaderinred Registered User regular
    fo3 had tons of that stuff that i loved.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    The Reflectron is pretty fickle.

  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Spoit wrote: »
    I'm surprised he called FO2 on discontinuities, but not FO3

    That is a bit surprising. Looking back at FO2, I'm not sure I see the issue, really. The towns might not connect in gameplay terms, but they seemed sensibly designed and occasionally tied into each other. I guess he's referring to stuff like Modoc's drought not coming up elsewhere, and other self-contained stuff? Then again, I do think the different style of game makes it more noticeable in FO3. There, you see exactly how much empty space is along the way, with little indication of travel and trade between settlements.

    I do like that he picked up on the little 'story within a scene' moments. Minefield was chock full of those, especially with the sniper.

    Edit: The very idea of Journey to the Center of Arcanum makes me positively giddy. Then I become sad because it's not happening right now. Then I get hopeful because, hey, Fallout was dead too, right? Then I start drinking, and... well, that's as far as I got. The idea excites me, and the lack of such a game is an unforgivable offense, is what I'm getting at.

    Stolls on
    kstolls on Twitch, streaming weekends at 9pm CST!
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  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Stolls wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    I'm surprised he called FO2 on discontinuities, but not FO3

    That is a bit surprising. Looking back at FO2, I'm not sure I see the issue, really. The towns might not connect in gameplay terms, but they seemed sensibly designed and occasionally tied into each other. I guess he's referring to stuff like Modoc's drought not coming up elsewhere, and other self-contained stuff? Then again, I do think the different style of game makes it more noticeable in FO3. There, you see exactly how much empty space is along the way, with little indication of travel and trade between settlements.

    I do like that he picked up on the little 'story within a scene' moments. Minefield was chock full of those, especially with the sniper.

    Are we remembering the same Fallout 2?

    The one with Broken Hills? And New Reno? And the vault full of talking Deathclaws?

    There were connections, and a lot of them, but there wasn't much thematic tissue between them. You had Quest for Fire and the mafia planet from Star Trek a short drive apart.

    Fallout 1, everywhere was clawing back to civilization. The degree varied, but someone in Shady Sands could go to the Hub and not feel too lost. Meanwhile, Fallout 2 had Vault City and the NCR be far enough ahead of the tribals that anyone with the slightest ambition could go all The Man Who Would Be King and rule in a weekend. Basically, they're all valid directions, but not all at once.

    (Also, I loathe Arroyo. Just the worst.)

  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    I'm surprised he called FO2 on discontinuities, but not FO3

    That is a bit surprising. Looking back at FO2, I'm not sure I see the issue, really. The towns might not connect in gameplay terms, but they seemed sensibly designed and occasionally tied into each other. I guess he's referring to stuff like Modoc's drought not coming up elsewhere, and other self-contained stuff? Then again, I do think the different style of game makes it more noticeable in FO3. There, you see exactly how much empty space is along the way, with little indication of travel and trade between settlements.

    I do like that he picked up on the little 'story within a scene' moments. Minefield was chock full of those, especially with the sniper.

    Are we remembering the same Fallout 2?

    The one with Broken Hills? And New Reno? And the vault full of talking Deathclaws?

    There were connections, and a lot of them, but there wasn't much thematic tissue between them. You had Quest for Fire and the mafia planet from Star Trek a short drive apart.

    Fallout 1, everywhere was clawing back to civilization. The degree varied, but someone in Shady Sands could go to the Hub and not feel too lost. Meanwhile, Fallout 2 had Vault City and the NCR be far enough ahead of the tribals that anyone with the slightest ambition could go all The Man Who Would Be King and rule in a weekend. Basically, they're all valid directions, but not all at once.

    (Also, I loathe Arroyo. Just the worst.)

    Certain areas were isolated - San Francisco's a better example, I think, since it's a rather blatant end game town that should be a major commercial hub - but I can't honestly say that most of the world felt that way. I see what you mean, and I get that the tribal thing is off, it just never really stuck out to me in-game. Then again, I felt the larger thematic disconnect was from your main quest versus the broader context; the thrust of the GECK thing with the NCR/Reno/Vault City political maneuvering as a backdrop.

    Stolls on
    kstolls on Twitch, streaming weekends at 9pm CST!
    Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
    Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Ya know, I love the contrast between the Fallout thread and the Skyrim thread.

    Fallout Thread: We love talking about the lore and story and the people who wrote the lore and story and what the lore and story will be of the next game. Something about mods.

    Skyrim Thread: Mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods! WTF is lore?

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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    To be fair, when the keepers of the lore think Little fucking Lamplight is a good idea....

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    I have never understood the degree of hate Little Lamplight gets. Was it dumb? Yeah. Did it rape your dog and kill your mother? No. It was stupid, but it was also pretty much avoidable; I don't think you even actually had to go through to get to the vault down there if you were willing to risk the other way in.

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  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    I find the Skyrim thing amusing, because I dig into TES lore with both hands. From Morrowind onward I enjoyed just chilling out at bookstores more than actually proceeding with the plot. That stuff is fascinating.

    As for Little Lamplight, I think the hate stems from the forced nature of it. As I recall, the overland Vault 87 entrance is flagged as impassible even if you tank through the radiation. In early interviews I remember the devs admitting that children would be unkillable, implying (or outright stating) that it would likely have drawn the wrong kind of attention. That concession would've been negligible if this fact wasn't highlighted in some glaring fashion, which, unfortunately, Lamplight fits to a tee. Any number of different factors - a stronger overall plot, Lamplight being non-critical, a better in-game explanation - would've made it easier to swallow.

    kstolls on Twitch, streaming weekends at 9pm CST!
    Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Mitchell, you're a terrible surgeon. Do you even know what a human jaw looks like?

    Now I'm not sure if I would proceed with Honest Hearts first like planned, or move along to Old World Blues for some much needed medical attention.

    PLA on
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Little Lamplight was fucking awful for the sole fact that it was a (relatively) large maze-like area with quest critical NPC's that would wander all the fuck over you had to hunt down to proceed, would bug out, and unlike any other quest in the game, if it messed up, you couldn't blast your way through.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Little lamplight is indicative of their whole thought process which started with "wouldn't it be cool if <blank>" and not proceeding much further down that chain of logic. Combined with the quite frankly bizarre timejump which seems to be almost entirely because for one incidental cameo, and revocation of the whole 'emerging from the apocalypse' themes that 1, and especially 2 were built around, it was just....bunk

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  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    i found little lamplight to be intriguing if not especially plausible

    where do these kids come from? does everyone who has a baby in the wasteland just drop them off there and say 'fend for yourselves' ?

    what's the history of the place? how long has it been around? is it a wasteland institution by now? obviously machete and a few others came from there

    all these questions were pretty much ignored, but i just rolled with it

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    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Considering that the bombs dropped 200+ years ago (and not 200 minutes) those are some damn good questions.

    I can understand the appeal of throwing in a Lord of the Flies environment given the post apocolypse setting, but the timeline really doesn't work out.

    Now maybe if it was some kind of orphan repository, that might work.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Ug, Little Lamplight was the worst. It just didn't make sense!

    When I first went into Big Town, my first assumption was that Little Lamplight was run by some kind of pedophile and I was looking forward to murdering someone. What I got however was... Yeah.

    Where do the kids come from? How do they defend themselves from super mutants, yet get reamed by them in Big Town? If they can make a society work in that cave? Why not just carry that over when you have a physically stronger and more mature settlement elsewhere? If the Capital Wasteland is so dangerous, how do they make the trip from LL to BT in the first place? How do little kids run off the adults and older kids? You can't just say the little kids have awesome combat skills, cause eventually they will get older, so won't the older ones just be able to tell the fucking five year olds to fuck off?

    Head hurts so much from Little Lamplight. My poor dog is still traumatized and I miss my poor mother.

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  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    To be fair, the kids do have invulnerable plot armor... :P

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  • Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    I didn't hate Little Lamplight - gotta remember, this entire world is borked. Why shouldn't there be a place where all the kids are in charge Lord of the Flies style until they reach a certain age. The ONLY thing I think that was missing was a thread to a larger connection - like an automated program that intentionally kept stealing kids and dropping them in Little Lamplight to watch them grow.

    Rogue Day Care Program that kidnaps children because it knows that it will be decommissioned as soon as someone shows up to count the kids its in charge of and finds that there's one missing. Bam, better story!

    "Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."

  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    I'm with you Chase. Anyway, just about done with New Vegas. Thinking about about going NCR for my first finish then Yes Man for my independent female 2nd run. Also, gave Gannon a spare LAER (fully upgraded) I had lying around from Big MT... best idea I ever had.

    And I finished Boone's quest, and somewhere along the way he got a strength boost so now he can use the AM rifle without power armor. So yeah, dude's walking around in his sweet upgraded armor with a rifle he can pole-vault with on his back. I think the rest of my companion quests are borked though since I'm using an "All companions" mod.

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I didn't hate Little Lamplight - gotta remember, this entire world is borked. Why shouldn't there be a place where all the kids are in charge Lord of the Flies style until they reach a certain age. The ONLY thing I think that was missing was a thread to a larger connection - like an automated program that intentionally kept stealing kids and dropping them in Little Lamplight to watch them grow.

    Rogue Day Care Program that kidnaps children because it knows that it will be decommissioned as soon as someone shows up to count the kids its in charge of and finds that there's one missing. Bam, better story!

    I always thought is should be like this:

    You know that Star Trek OS episode, where the come upon a planet (that looked exactly like Earth, but that fact had absolutly no connection with the rest of the story) full of children, and they find out that it was because the inhabinants made a longevity vaccine that ended up only affecting kids, and it turned out that all the kids on the planet were hundreds of years old?

    That's what the story of Little Lamplight should have been, with the cave moss that grows when...
    it's fed human flesh
    ...being the thing that kept them young; they aren't getting new kids, those are the same exact kids that were there when the bombs fell.

    Foefaller on
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  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    that would have made things creepier, i agree

    even better than that - what if they're hiring gangs of super mutants to bring in 'fertilizer'

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    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Ewww

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    The problem with Run Goodsprings, Run is that I like Goodsprings.

    It's cool that the Courier's grave is littered with cigarettes.

  • BrocksMulletBrocksMullet Into the sunrise, on a jet-ski. Natch.Registered User regular
    Ya know, I love the contrast between the Fallout thread and the Skyrim thread.

    Fallout Thread: We love talking about the lore and story and the people who wrote the lore and story and what the lore and story will be of the next game. Something about mods.

    Skyrim Thread: Mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods, mods! WTF is lore?

    Really now, it could be the Diablo thread.

    I, for one, enjoyed the Mako.

    Steam: BrocksMullet http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972421669/


  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    The problem with Run Goodsprings, Run is that I like Goodsprings.

    It's cool that the Courier's grave is littered with cigarettes.

    What's even cooler is that
    They are distictive cigarettes, and you can pick up one an use it to convice Benny's #2 that he's trying to double-cross Mr House.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I kind of lost track of most of them because I hadn't tried the Mercenary's grenade rifle before. Managed to put one in my pocket, though.

    I forgot to bring
    a shovel.
    Oh, well.

    I like "fatigue-damage". It makes AI more interesting. Chet was selling a pair of boxing-tape things. Had a boxing-match in several rounds vs a bark scorpion.

    PLA on
  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    Oh man.

    I always forget that.

    And I always mean to bring one but noooope.

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    i always grab a shovel

    because chance's knife aw yesh

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