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[PATV] Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - Extra Credits Season 5, Ep. 2: Spec Ops: The Line (Part 2)

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    Iron LungIron Lung Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    1) the WP part was very well done. After about a half-hour of trying to snipe and grenade through the assembled troops and their apparently infinite respawns I got the message.
    Ok, Willy Pete out.
    And I went bananas. Totally happy to fry those bastards all the way along the concourse. And when I saw the densely packed areas in back, I assumed "Hey, reserves! NOPE."
    And down came the fire.
    Then, the reveal. Oh. Right. Message received.

    2) Cognitive Dissonance details: executing soldiers, not just shooting them, but disabling them and melee'ing them dead at close range, gives you SPECIFIC AMMO (and Grenades, also a rarity) for your weapons. This is non-trivial. Ammo is hard to come by, and unless you like swapping weapons constantly, a thing subtly discouraged by "kill 50 with X weapon type" achieves, you'll grumble about losing your SAW for a crappy AK. Again.
    But make that kill 100%, and the game goes out of the way to make clear, "that was good, you should do that again." Never mind the visceral pleasure of making damn sure a target DIES for trying to kill you.
    Geneva? Ain't no Geneva in Dubai, player!

    3) Regarding "Hero Deflation": Dark Souls did this well with Half-Breed Priscilla encounter. After a number of unfairly hard fights, you meet the only boss in the game who gives you a choice: Priscilla asks you to leave in peace.
    By then you're probably good and pissed by the bastard enemies and confusing architecture and ready to get your Soul on, and then you're given an actual choice to pass on your reward(s) for no reason besides that the local lord says so.
    I killed her eventually for the trophy. That was almost a year ago.
    I still feel bad about doing that.
    There have been fan demands, I don't know if in any important number, to make Half-Breed Priscilla a faction option, but I get why that shouldn't happen. To make the choice "real" in it's context there has to be no external reasons why you wouldn't fight besides to make the decision to walk away for it's own sake.
    There has to be no reward. You just choose not to.

    4) Regarding a comment in the first minute of the video: I'm old. I don't use Aim Assist. EVER. ;-)

    Iron Lung on
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    mecca6801mecca6801 Gotham CityRegistered User new member
    The last time I played a game that was this mental, it was "The Suffering" and "The Suffering: Ties That Bind"
    The last war game that left me feeling uneasy like this was "Homefront"
    I thin i need to detox now...

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    ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    I really want to play this game... But I think it would just put me in a really bad spot. My brother grew up in a war, I can't remember it, but its something that can just shatter a person for decades on end.

    That being said, we really need games that force people to ask questions about war and killing in general. I'm not saying Mario needs to stop stomping people, or games like monster hunter have to make us feel horrible about the things we do. But games that try to convey a sense of realism, whether modern day shooter or Sci-fi games like Mass Effect and Halo, they really need to take war, suffering and death more seriously.

    In part, the gaming industry, both gamers and developers, owe it to society. No other medium can make you say "Yeah let's kill some terrorists" and then "Oh hell, I just killed a person". It may not be real, and it may not feel real, but it doesn't need to. It needs to make you realize that war and killing are very real things.

    steam_sig.png
    PSN: ShinyRedKnight Xbox Live: ShinyRedKnight
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    adrillaadrilla Stockbridge, GARegistered User new member
    Great game, and not to sound cliche, it's exactly the game that most modern gamers deserve right now. From 'Bro gamers' to the 'Underage Overkill Behavior Tea Bagging Kiddiez' to the 'Core gamers' and the, I'm better than you, 'Elitists (who'd never play these type of 'mind-numbing shooters'). What I found most crazy in this episode, is that I unknowingly made the exact same decisions Daniel described. I too shot in the air at that one point and got excited when the crowd dispersed. In the former scenario <i>I</i> shot the ropes while telling my companions to shoot the snipers (so vice versa in approach). Same result though; we couldn't eliminate everyone fast enough, so we couldn't save the two NPCs. But it's quite interesting that I had the exact same ideas in those situations. I wonder how common those choices were. Great minds and such...

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    SkexisSkexis Registered User regular
    I was playing this game for the first time recently and was prepared for some of the explicit decisions I had to make, but it wasn't until late in the game that the mechanics as gameplay really made sense for me.

    When going to save Lugo from the soldiers, I hit a spot where I was dying repeatedly, since the enemies were rushing towards the only cover that was anywhere nearby. Left with only minimal cover for myself, I kept getting grenaded and shot at until finally, my comments unconsciously started mirroring Walker's. Cursing at the screen, calling the enemies names. Feeding brutality until I wanted to make the enemies bleed. Pure venting.

    And it clicked.

    If you're getting pissed, why are you playing this over and over? Why are you playing it at all?
    And why continue as if the game has no effect on your state of mind? I asked all of these things in short succession, and of course, the game gave me a hint with my loading screen. "Do you feel like a hero yet?"

    That's not to say the game made me stop playing...it just made me examine my reactions all the more closely.

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    Tendo NaryanTendo Naryan Registered User new member
    Such a great game. I feel like I'm not part of the intended audience for Spec Ops' message to be entirely effective (plays military shooters and is American). Most of the time I was hyped to see Walker push through the hell he was building under his own feet.

    Still, I loved seeing all the elements of the game (the loading symbol, title screen, etc) break down as I progressed.

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    XocolatlXocolatl Registered User regular
    Big mistake...BIIGGGG mistake.
    Did anyone think "trusting players" would actually work out? Japanese games as an industry pretty much died out in the US BECAUSE people are too ignorant to understand games that are trying to say something. The laypeople had never been good at grasping the subtle things, nor can (yes, I used the word can there) they crave anything other than power fantasy. Humans are much worse creatures than you give them credit for. There is a reason that disaster movies often falls into the trope of "let's evacuate the few people that are actually worth saving!". Deep down in people's mind, they know that only a few are capable of contributing to the world.

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    PossiblyMontyPossiblyMonty Registered User new member
    I would like to thank you guys for pointing this out to us. This is going to be my one game this year I get to buy. I played through it and it was awesome. What made it especially good for me was not only the things you talked about in the show (Which were freaking amazing and I hope more developers make games with this kind of emotional experience) but some of the features for older or less skilled players. I actively avoid shooters because of the whole shooting people thing. Call me old fashion but I believe if you have to resort to war you have already failed the species as a whole. Because I don't play them, I was not very good at it, this coupled with the fact I'm older and slower, on an older, slower computer made for some challenging game play.

    At one point I was stuck in a car garage with almost no ammo, a dug-in machine gun at one end of the level was constantly attacking us, a swarm of men who wanted to kill me was searching the level and after a few minutes a heavy would come out which I had to use the only grenades I had to take down. I played that level over and over and over and over and then the game politely pointed out, "You seem to be having difficulty with this level. Would you like to change the difficulty settings?" I can not express how great that feature is. I used it to get past that level where I was just trapped without resources and then returned to normal difficulty. (Or at least I think it did) That feature saved the game for me. Every game needs a feature like that. I get to buy one game a years because I live in poverty. It is this game, and largely because I want to reward the developers for both taking the chance on a creation like this and for that difficulty feature.

    Thank you, developers, for understanding that not everyone has the reflexes and tactical skill of a 16 year old Call-of-Duty player.

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