Options

[Industry Thread] is getting better, unlike the Vita's outlook. Read the OP.

24567100

Posts

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    There's plenty of things you could do to make a keyboard better for gaming, but I'd suspect most would just involve a change in button layout and not anything truly fundamental.

  • Options
    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    You can't change things too much. At the end of the day, that mouse and keyboard are still used for basic computer interaction, and you can't impact that too much. Or rather you can, but then you're into peripheral territory. And there's been a million attempts to reinvent the wheel on the front, to extremely limited success.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    "We're frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we're jumping in," Valve declares. "Even basic input, the keyboard and mouse, haven't really changed in any meaningful way over the years. There's a real void in the marketplace, and opportunities to create compelling user experiences are being overlooked."

    Well basic inputs for PCs haven't changed in decades because there's been no pressing need for them to change, and I'm not sure how Valve would even go about evolving the input medium the way they seem to want to. Better PC-integrated touch devices? Dipping into the Nostromo market segment? I dunno.

    I think anything would just feel kind of forced.

    Valve is going to develop waggle and motion capture control for the PC.

    That or more ergonomic keyboards.

  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    You can't change things too much.

    Valve's problem doesn't seem to be that things are changing fast enough or different enough; it's that they haven't changed AT ALL. Keyboards are based on a design from the 1800's. Even the mouse is nearly 40 years old.

    EDIT: Misread things, the original mouse prototype is from 1963, so it's almost 50 years old!

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    It ain't broke though, why fix it? Innovation is all well and good, but there's a reason the kb&m and gamepad have endured so long. I wouldn't be so surprised if, when we eventually get our Minority Report style hologram interfaces, they'll be qwerty too.

    Oh brilliant
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.

    Also, augmented reality.

    Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.

  • Options
    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    This sounds very similar to the arguments made against the Wii - The controller isn't broke, why fix it?

    Because the control interfaces are the cornerstone of how you interact with an electronic game, and without innovation in that field things tend to stagnate. Why not try for something new? Granted, "waggle" wasn't exactly implemented well by most companies, but that's because they were designing the game first and thinking about input second, rather than thinking input-first. If people were thinking input-first, we would've seen a lot more games with point controls.

    On top of this, this is Valve we are talking about - a company that has a full-time Enconomist on staff to study the emergent patterns of HAT trading. They can afford to hire staff to investigate input schemes. And considering what we know about next gen (Kinect 2, Wii U), alternative control schemes are here to stay.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Well, as long as innovation in control schemes goes in the way of alternatives or bonuses rather than attempts to REPLACE existing conventions things will be kosher.

  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    It ain't broke though, why fix it? Innovation is all well and good, but there's a reason the kb&m and gamepad have endured so long. I wouldn't be so surprised if, when we eventually get our Minority Report style hologram interfaces, they'll be qwerty too.

    Because there might be a better way but we won't know unless we look?

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Sega recently renewed their trademark on Skies of Arcadia.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=41694794

    fx9XB.jpg

    skeldare on
    Nintendo Console Codes
    Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
    PM Me if you add me!
    HAIL HYDRA
  • Options
    ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    I guess Valve has one of the best positions in the PC market to push accessories by tying them to games and software in their DD service, but I doubt they can do much about the keyboard and mouse standard.

    They might be able to push some of the other input methods which already exist but are niche as shit.

    Like those, what're they called, TrackIR devices? Tracks your head. Might be useful for other games than IL-2.

    They could of course always put a touchpad on a keyboard and call it a day, but I'm pretty sure Valve thinks keyboards are an evolutionary dead end as far as PC accessories go, and that this hardware excursion of theirs is meant to explore alternatives.

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • Options
    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.

    As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.

    So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:

    ResizedImage600230-steelseries-zboard-A.jpg

    and... uh...

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtzMM5mQYMLsNB6UiYMWhoL7bMPu19DYTsQW6z9Hb_FzcVWnzL&t=1

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • Options
    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    The Skies thing is probably just for a XBLA rerelease.

    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    The Skies thing is probably just for a XBLA rerelease.

    Or something done by routine to keep other people's hands off a name that's part of the Sega legacy. Companies like to keep their stuff to themselves so other people can't has.

    I am however unfamiliar with US trademark law. What I'm assuming is only possible as long as the US government does not demand a company puts out some form of product based on the trademark for a renewal to be possible. If they do have to put something out there in order to retain the trademark, then it's a strong indication that there's something in the works - however, that doesn't necessarily mean it's getting much effort.

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • Options
    BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    Sega recently renewed their trademark on Skies of Arcadia.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=41694794

    fx9XB.jpg

    Oh man, one of my favorite games, I really hope they do a decent HD remake or something.

  • Options
    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.

    As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.

    So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:

    ResizedImage600230-steelseries-zboard-A.jpg

    and... uh...

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtzMM5mQYMLsNB6UiYMWhoL7bMPu19DYTsQW6z9Hb_FzcVWnzL&t=1

    Those are both still keyboards, though. They are buttons, arranged in a way to make them easy to hit.

    I an see Valve looking into TrackIR, Move/Kinect, Smart Phone integration, touchpad integration.. Hell, even some of those things that track your hands in 3D space. All are wide open when you have an experimental R&D branch.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • Options
    KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    Odd thought: Does Microsoft or
    Athenor wrote: »
    Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.

    As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.

    So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:

    ResizedImage600230-steelseries-zboard-A.jpg

    and... uh...

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtzMM5mQYMLsNB6UiYMWhoL7bMPu19DYTsQW6z9Hb_FzcVWnzL&t=1

    Those are both still keyboards, though. They are buttons, arranged in a way to make them easy to hit.

    I an see Valve looking into TrackIR, Move/Kinect, Smart Phone integration, touchpad integration.. Hell, even some of those things that track your hands in 3D space. All are wide open when you have an experimental R&D branch.

    I see Valve putting out a $100 "Steam Certified" Keyboard from Razer, followed up by a $100 rebranded Logitech mouse.

    Also, if you guys like Skies of Arcadia, apparently the ship combat in it was reused in the upcoming NIS / Compa Heart JPRG, Mugen Souls. Something to tide a person over, I guess?

  • Options
    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Sadly, NIS has yet to make a game that wasn't a tedious, grind-fest.

    That being said I would like a SoA remake since I never played the original and I have not a DC or a GCN.

    Dragkonias on
  • Options
    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.

    Also, augmented reality.

    Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
    High five henroid. Stylus Tablet PCs were way more useful than these capacitive "tablets"

    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Given that Valve has had guys studying wearable computing for a while now, I would guess that any hardware guys they bring on is to work on that

    Dehumanized on
  • Options
    CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    So no clue how much it really has to do with the state of the industry really but the actor who plays Kevin Butler is in a brand new commercial! For tires where you can get a Wii, he's there with two others playing Mario Kart on the Wii.

    That's bound to drive some batty.

  • Options
    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Cade wrote: »
    So no clue how much it really has to do with the state of the industry really but the actor who plays Kevin Butler is in a brand new commercial! For tires where you can get a Wii, he's there with two others playing Mario Kart on the Wii.

    That's bound to drive some batty.
    Sony doesn't own him, and he has bills like everyone else.

    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    That commercial isn't canon.
    Same with Marcus playing DS on 30 Rock.

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • Options
    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Sadly, NIS has yet to make a game that wasn't a tedious, grind-fest.

    That being said I would like a SoA remake since I never played the original and I have not a DC or a GCN.

    Prinny and Prinny 2.

  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    ResizedImage600230-steelseries-zboard-A.jpg

    How the bloody hell are you supposed to type on that monstrosity?

  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    You're not. It's a gaming keyboard.

    If you have to write something with it, I guess you just have to hunt and peck.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.

    Also, augmented reality.

    Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
    High five henroid. Stylus Tablet PCs were way more useful than these capacitive "tablets"

    Are you being sarcastic and making fun of my old-man, hates-dirty-things nature? XD

    Seriously, touch screen devices marketed on "USE YOUR HANDS!" are repulsive to me. You know the super market when you're entering your PIN with a touch-screen after using your card to pay? USE THE PEN for god's sake, don't hand touch the screen like other people do.

    Then again, they're touching the pen too.

    ... FUCK.

  • Options
    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    No, Win8 looks like a huge step back compared to the accuracy with the stylus and inking designed interface. Especially with the quiet improvements they made with it in 7

    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    No, Win8 looks like a huge step back compared to the accuracy with the stylus and inking designed interface. Especially with the quiet improvements they made with it in 7

    I'm living in fear that they're going to make Windows 7 impossible to get when Windows 8 hits market (wait, is it out yet?). Forcing me to buy Windows 8 is going to make me flip.

  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.

    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    subedii wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Valve jumping into the PC hardware arena
    A rather intriguing job listing on Valve's site for an 'Industrial Designer' shines light on the firm's disappointment with today's PC hardware, and suggest it will soon be taking matters into its own hands.

    "Valve is traditionally a software company," reads the post. "Open platforms like the PC and Mac are important to us, as they enable us and our partners to have a robust and direct relationship with customers."

    It gets more interesting from there. "We're frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we're jumping in," Valve declares. "Even basic input, the keyboard and mouse, haven't really changed in any meaningful way over the years. There's a real void in the marketplace, and opportunities to create compelling user experiences are being overlooked."

    The candidate is required to have "6+ years of professional experience shipping world-class, high-tech hardware products", and "confidence with 2D and 3D design visualization tools".

    Valve has previously dismissed rumours that the firm is working on releasing its own hardware dubbed the 'Steam Box' - a console-like machine that would play Steam games and other PC titles on your telly with a proprietary controller and optional USB attachments.

    But the rumored claims don't seem so far-fetched now, do they?

    It really sounds like it.

    What it sounds like is the stuff that Valve's been talking about (and constantly working with others on (Novint Falcon, Razer Hydra)) for years now. Which is alternative input devices and means of interaction, and means of interacting with and monitoring the player.

    I do not believe this is about "Steam box".

    Yes, this is where I'm at too. It's more likely to be the thing they keep talking about, telling others to get on with, and have said (on multiple occasions) that they are working on, than a thing that, whenever it's brought up, they flatly deny they are working on and instead point people towards the thing that they are working on.

    forumsig.png
  • Options
    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Half-Life 3 will actually be a USB powered snow globe.

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • Options
    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    Half-Life 3 will actually be a USB powered snow globe.

    I suddenly want to see a strider with a Santa hat and beard.

  • Options
    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ResizedImage600230-steelseries-zboard-A.jpg

    How the bloody hell are you supposed to type on that monstrosity?

    The thing with the Zboard was that it had interchangeable keysets. They even sold game specific sets. I guess that particular set is meant for FPS'es and other games using WASD movement.

  • Options
    Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.

    Microsoft to allow Windows 8 downgrade to Windows 7 and even Vista.

    Downgrade rights only in Windows 8 Pro, apparently. Also, Windows 7 PCs still able to be sold up to 2 years after Win 8 debut.

    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • Options
    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.

    Microsoft to allow Windows 8 downgrade to Windows 7 and even Vista.

    Downgrade rights only in Windows 8 Pro, apparently. Also, Windows 7 PCs still able to be sold up to 2 years after Win 8 debut.

    Well what about outright Windows 7 licenses / copies on disc? I have a rig to finish building.

  • Options
    Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
    What is the lifecycle policy if I purchase Windows as a packaged product?

    We will continue to allow retailers to sell the previous version of Windows for a year after the launch date of the new version.

    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • Options
    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    That's not really anything new. They've allowed downgrades for several releases now. It's when they extend the downgrade period that you can call it evidence of a problem, presumably because the OS has been poorly received.

    (getting off the topic of the game industry a bit here though.)

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • Options
    C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    Tim Cain Retrospective Interview, contains a lot about Troika and their games if you're interested:

    http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rpg-codex-retrospective-interview-tim-cain-on-fallout-troika-and-rpg-design.75737/

    Temple of Elemental Evil featured what is to this day the best translation of D&D to the PC. Sadly, there only was one game using that engine. Were there any plans to keep using it for other games, or perhaps license it to other developers, in a manner similar to the Infinity and Gold Box engines?

    Yes, we had great plans for that engine. For the sequel to The Temple of Elemental Evil, Troika proposed using the super-module GDQ: Queen of the Spiders, which consists of seven modules from the popular Giants and Drow series, plus the special Q-series module that completed the adventure. In fact, we were going to let the players bring their characters over from ToEE directly into the QoS, so they could simply continue playing with the same group of characters. Alternatively, we had suggested using the engine to create the long-awaited Baldur's Gate 3, and Obsidian had also expressed interest in licensing the engine to make D&D licensed games. Unfortunately, Atari never followed up on any of these proposals.

    So, Black Isle and Troika both worked on (concept at least in Troika's case) BG 3 at some point.

    Whatcouldhavebeen.gif

  • Options
    ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    Port the engine to iOS and get cracking folks.
    Would not be surprised in the least to see this actually happen.

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
This discussion has been closed.