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Old MechWarrior Online Thread

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Yeah, if it takes having an even win/loss ratio to keep your light mechs repaired, I just don't see how that's tenable for pubs who aren't doing continual curbstomps

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    I hear you don't have to repair engines. Just repair everything else, start a match, and at the end of that match your engine will be fine.

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    AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    So much of the game and economy are in flux that I'm finding it hard to develop a positive or negative opinion as of yet. I say wait until the numbers are closer to finalized before we start doomsaying.

    If you're worried about a mech not performing well because of not running an XL that will definitely change with the introduction of Endo-Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, and Double Heat sinks. Assaults can last for so, so damn long with that equipment, they just won't need an XL.

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    FaranguFarangu I am a beardy man With a beardy planRegistered User regular
    People, people, please.

    This content has been enabled for one day.

    PGI has been good about fixing these types of things up to now. Let's give them a little time.

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Well, the game is effectively unplayable for me. I play Hunch's and Jenners with XL's, and I can't afford to play. Yeah, I could play other mechs, but those are what I enjoy.

    So for me personally, it's a very crap change. I'm sure it will be scaled back, but the fact that PGI thought this was a good idea at all worries me.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    I'm eagerly awaiting the mechanic to go in wherein that if you lose a weapon you have to buy a new one...

    And if it's a weapon you can't buy (i.e. clan tech, losttech, etc) you have to get it to drop again or buy it off another player or something.

    That'll be interesting.

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    CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    I run XL engines exclusively and I play super aggressive, as long as you run with a PA team you'll make money.

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    CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    It's not that you need even wins/loses to keep a light mech in repair, you need even wins/losses to keep a XL engine in repair.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Cabezone wrote: »
    I run XL engines exclusively and I play super aggressive, as long as you run with a PA team you'll make money.

    We have covered this. Playing exclusively with a team of friends is not feasible for many people. For the majority of the playerbase, pick-up games with pubbies will be the norm. Right now premade teams will roll pubbies virtually 100% of the time. This is obviously not enjoyable for the pubbies and in the long term is not enjoyable for the premades either, and the repair costs issue only exacerbates the problem because premades can easily make enough money to use and repair costly items and make their advantage that much greater.

    The game cannot be balanced around the assumption that everyone or even most people are running with premade teams.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    To further hammer home the point.

    Just had an exceptional match in my Jenner. My team won like 8-2. I was second on my team in damage done and also second in XP, with just over 900. I had one kill and six assists. My payout was 1.6 million C-bills.

    It would take about three matches like that to cover the repair costs of a single XL-engined light or medium 'mech for one bad/unlucky match.

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Gaslight wrote: »
    To further hammer home the point.

    Just had an exceptional match in my Jenner. My team won like 8-2. I was second on my team in damage done and also second in XP, with just over 900. I had one kill and six assists. My payout was 1.6 million C-bills.

    It would take about three matches like that to cover the repair costs of a single XL-engined light or medium 'mech for one bad/unlucky match.

    Sounds like a lot of enemy mechs got torn to bits before they were cored, as I just had a match where the pay was over 2 mil, before premium bonuses were even figured in.

    ...in any case the #2 bullet point of them explaining the changes they made yesterday stated that they are going to be adding additional C-Bill bonuses beyond the salvage bonus and the premium multiplyer. While I think the repairs cost are terrible as they stand atm, I want to wait and see how they change it before I doom and gloom about the future of the game.

    Foefaller on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Do you actually get any bonuses if you lose?

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    At the moment, only the premium bonus (which is a 1.5x multipler) you only get the salvage bonus if you accually win the match.

    ... but that's just for C-Bills, you get any and all xp you earned in the match win or lose, as long as you weren't piloting a trial mech.

    Foefaller on
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    DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Still not approved by the FDA Dublin, OHRegistered User regular
    Yeah they've basically said "too bad so sad" if you run XL's and take too much damage. Truthfully, I bet they'll be reluctant to scale it back.

    This patch, it hasn't really impacted a lot of us because had a lot of other mechs to play. That will change tomorrow when we lose all our mechs again, and we either have to play with the stock founders mechs or starter mechs. If every red cent you earn has to go into repairs, you'll never be able to afford other mechs unless you A. run starter mechs exclusively or B. pay to win (founders pack), which I am happy about neither option.

    And this is coming from a legendary founder.

    I don't care so much if XL's cost more to repair (they should) but maybe scale it back to, say, 50% of what it currently costs, or even 75%.

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    TexwegianTexwegian Registered User regular
    I've been running my hunchback with the following, and it seems to be working pretty well and repair costs are cheap. It's pretty streaky though, but I think that is more dependent on the pug groups that I've been playing with. You really have to wait for the assaults and heavy to engage and then jump in to clean up.

    HBK-4G
    LB-10X with 4 tons ammo
    2 ML
    2 Machine Guns with 1 ton ammo

    Standard 200 engine.



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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Yeah...this game rocks. Too bad Founder money is gonna come a week late. Oh well.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I have to agree that XL engine costs are way, way out of line, if only because it means teams can use them without issue because they'll win so much more and randoms are basically screwed due to cost. If repairing XL engines in the 300-400 range ran, say, 700k-900k (or at least something much closer to that, with standard engines being half that or something), that would be workable. Then the margin of profit becomes a matter of how damaged the rest of the mech was, weapons destroyed, ammo costs, and so on, which makes it much more feasible to make a little something off of even a loss without either making failure the same as winning or charging people the cost of an entire mech for repairing just the engine. Ramping up the costs for repairs and then ramping up rewards to keep them workable just leaves the game with currency so ridiculously over-inflated that it means nothing; even with regular wins, earning 10 million should feel like earning it, not just a handful of change you earned from a half-dozen matches.

    That being said, I have to respectfully and completely disagree that XLs currently being ultra-expensive is a legitimate basis for saying the game is ruined or unplayable right now. If a pilot can't enjoy playing the game without their XL engine, then that really is their problem; engines and speeds in general are still going to end up nerfed for the various builds and sizes, so XLs are simply not going to remain as dominant as they have, costs or not. The engine costs are an extremely minor nuisance to me because I have zero problem running multiple mechs and builds without running optimized stuff. In fact, I'm rather enjoying running Centurion after not using one for weeks, since I now have an effective mech with hefty firepower, huge durability, and will effectively always turn a profit. It'd be like saying all of TF2 is ruined if they nerfed Spies or something; there's a bunch of ways to play, so just go try something else for a while and see what the next patch holds.

    And while I think it's some pretty hefty overreacting to a temporary situation for an in-progress system, I do think it's a good sign that there are people really aggravated by this. If nothing else, it means that MWO is doing a good enough job to get people pretty invested in it already; people don't get mad about changes to things they don't care about, so clearly people already care a good bit about this. But mostly, we just need to wait and see how things play out. This patch has been running for less than a measly 48 hours, which is hardly enough time for the devs to collect a decent amount of data and feedback.

    EDIT: Gonna throw in my cost-effective Cent build for good measure; packs a wallop, and I usually get 1-2 kills a match.
    CN9-A
    Standard 200 engine
    2 MLAS
    2 SRM6 + 3 tons ammo + CASE
    1 MG + 2 tons ammo
    18 heatsinks
    304 armor
    Even with it completely, completely shredded, the highest repair cost I've seen was ~800k. Since even a loss nets at least 1 million C-bills right now, that means, at bare minimum, about 200k profit per match basically every time.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    I must admit I do enjoy not running up against every mech using an XL engine, and it seems like a lot more varied builds are going on right now as people experiment which has made it more interesting to play then just "Oh look, another Gaussapult."

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Though to be fair, Gaussapults are even more a problem now than ever, since a team running a few of those gets huge firepower for small risk and are much more likely to cause massively expensive damage than take it. Now balance isn't just a matter of weight, role, speed, and firepower, it's also a matter of what kind of damage can deal versus what it costs to run that mech.

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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    So, ran a ton more games tonight with my XL Atlas. When I played smart, I had tiny repair bills. When I played dumb, I had big repair bills. That seems pretty much in line with what should happen, at least on the Assault side (Note, I'm not speaking for the ridiculousness that is the 4 million repair if Jenner dies). I think what we'll see on the Assault side at least (and I already noticed it on a couple of Atlas's tonight) is people transitioning back to normal engines, and either A) Sacrificing a ton of armor for a heavy weapon loadout, or B) Just running less threatening builds. If anything, I think on the top end of the spectrum, it's possibly buffed XL's a bit, since if you're a decent pilot, and willing to take the risk you can effectively go 2v1 on other Assaults. Crits being in also makes a lot of the Assaults way less scary. Punch through their armor and watch the secondary explosions render them useless.

    I think, right now, the three strongest variants in the game are the K2 Gausspult, an XL D-DC Atlas, and the Swayback. And all three are going to lose a ton of their killing power as soon as heat penalties are implemented for similar weapons. I think right now, in terms of balance on the top end of things, the game is in a good place. Jenners should not cost the same to repair as an Atlas, XL or no. I'd like to see their repair costs for their XL's brought down about 20%. Otherwise, I think things are on the right track.

    P.S - It is absolutely hilarious to see a Dual UAC/5 Atlas jam both is guns within 5 seconds, then flail around realizing how utterly screwed he is.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    What do you do when you pub teammates just completely collapse the line and you're the last one left though?

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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    What do you do when you pub teammates just completely collapse the line and you're the last one left though?

    What are you running? With my build, it's a little weird to play. I usually don't want to be the first into the fray with this build. It's not designed to tank, it's designed to abuse the lighter engine for the most firepower I and heatsinks I can cram in. It is entirely dependent on me being aware of not being flanked from behind and torso twisting on approach to have my arms soak as many shots as possible. How I play it doesn't change a whole lot in PA groups or not. I play it as a slow moving ambush mech that shows up to the fight and cuts a swath of destruction through the opponents from an angle they aren't expecting. The general chaos of pub groups actually tends to help this a bit, since the furballs tend to be a little more fractured and it's easier for me to isolate mechs to rip apart.

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Server going down for maintenance. Commence the wipening! Wonder if they're going down to put in the Raven and Cicada

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Will they also do another sync with their webserver? I read a sticky in the forums, that one shouldn't change the password, as they are only (stupidly) synching their servers once a week. Thus far I haven't been able to log into the game because of this shit.

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    HandgimpHandgimp R+L=J Family PhotoRegistered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Will they also do another sync with their webserver? I read a sticky in the forums, that one shouldn't change the password, as they are only (stupidly) synching their servers once a week. Thus far I haven't been able to log into the game because of this shit.

    Yes, they do their server sync concurrent with the patchenating.

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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Everyone fretting about the costs of repairs, here is a quote direct from the previous patch notes.

    "Again, the numbers involved are to be considered placeholder. Once we start getting some detailed information about your gains/losses, a full balancing of rewards/costs will be done"

    RARR RARR ITS A BETA RARR RARR RARR :rotate:

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    SupraluminalSupraluminal Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    My enthusiasm is also not helped by getting stuck with utterly feeble PUG teammates over and over these past two nights. I know, I know, get a headset and run with the PA crew. I'm sure that's fun for a while, but effortlessly rolling teams of pubbies simply by virtue of being able to communicate and knowing my ass from a hole in the ground doesn't sound like something that would remain entertaining in the long term.

    A reminder on this point: Matchmaking will continue to be improved, including changes to match premade groups against other premades. Pubstomping won't last forever. They are also planning to implement some kind of skill-based matchmaking factor (think ELO, I guess). This is a good thing in terms of giving everyone a fun and challening play experience, but also has the interesting side-effect of making it essentially impossible to farm ridiculous amounts of money by rolling terrible pub teams.

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    DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Still not approved by the FDA Dublin, OHRegistered User regular
    Machine guns rule, lasers drool.

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    Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    Do Jammed UACs eventually clear, or are you SOL?

    "Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."

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    ValiantheartValiantheart Registered User regular
    Do Jammed UACs eventually clear, or are you SOL?

    I didn't even realize jamming was in and I was running UAC5s most of the week.

    PSN: Valiant_heart PC: Valiantheart99
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    HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Server going down for maintenance. Commence the wipening! Wonder if they're going down to put in the Raven and Cicada

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    i tried to hop on to play last night. even got in a group, only to have to disconnect 2 minutes later due to a fussy baby. :(

    I only got a chance to run my AS7-D LBXlass once. 2xLB10X 2xSRM6 2xMLAS
    it was damn fun. Had just bought and configured a couple dragons, an 8Q and my hunchback too.

    not sure why people are having money problems. i ran nothing but pubs and made a few million after repairs. i love not running XLs. doesnt feel so cheesy.

    kx3klFE.png
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    not sure why people are having money problems. i ran nothing but pubs and made a few million after repairs. i love not running XLs. doesnt feel so cheesy.

    I'm glad it makes you feel good. The fact, however, is that right now XLs are basically completely worthless and unviable because they will bankrupt you unless you can exploit the lack of robust matchmaking and win all the time by rolling with premade teams. And this obviously will breed imbalance and frustration in the playerbase.

    Crossing my fingers some sanity is injected after today's patch/wipe. I will be at work all day, trusting you people to give me the scoop.

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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    I just hope I can finally log on tonight and get some playing in. Knowing my luck, it will probably be a slide show, because my PC is a few years old. I am not even sure if I have a dual or quad core.

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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    I like that the repair costs are significant. It's the only way I can think of to balance the high-tech items over the long term.

    What are people spending their money on, anyway? I have been playing for only a few days, but I still buy a new mech whenever I feel like it and have never been restrained by c-bills. Although I don't run any XL builds.

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    CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    not sure why people are having money problems. i ran nothing but pubs and made a few million after repairs. i love not running XLs. doesnt feel so cheesy.

    I'm glad it makes you feel good. The fact, however, is that right now XLs are basically completely worthless and unviable because they will bankrupt you unless you can exploit the lack of robust matchmaking and win all the time by rolling with premade teams. And this obviously will breed imbalance and frustration in the playerbase.

    Crossing my fingers some sanity is injected after today's patch/wipe. I will be at work all day, trusting you people to give me the scoop.

    It's not a fact, several people have mentioned to you they make money just fine running in pub games. Your XL doesn't even need repairs every time you die.

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    It really is the XL engine repair costs that are getting people angry by and large; An XL engine can cost as much or more as a light or medium mech chassis, and you end up to 1/2 of that whenever it gets cored.

    So at the moment, getting cored in an XL basicly makes it impossible to make money on a win without the premium bonus and/or a really big salvage bonus.

    That being said, the devs have stated that they are planning to add more C-Bill bonuses later on.

    Foefaller on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Cabezone wrote: »
    It's not a fact, several people have mentioned to you they make money just fine running in pub games.

    No, not really. You, specifically, just blew the whole thing off by saying the solution was to play in a group rather than pub games, which is 1) unfeasible for the majority of people who will be playing this game, and 2) meaningless because groups will no longer be able to expect to automatically roll teams of randoms once more matchmaking options are implemented.

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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    You can lose without dying. Has anyone experimented with just running away if the fight is going poorly?

    What happens if you leave a match? Is it the equivalent of ejecting? How does that affect your losing pay?

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    CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Cabezone wrote: »
    It's not a fact, several people have mentioned to you they make money just fine running in pub games.

    No, not really. You, specifically, just blew the whole thing off by saying the solution was to play in a group rather than pub games, which is 1) unfeasible for the majority of people who will be playing this game, and 2) meaningless because groups will no longer be able to expect to automatically roll teams of randoms once more matchmaking options are implemented.

    I am blowing the whole thing off. The current systems in place are first pass or incomplete. There's no reason to be all up in arms about it.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    An XL engine can cost as much or more as a light or medium mech chassis,

    This I am actually totally fine with.

    and you end up to 1/2 of that whenever it gets cored.

    At least half. And this is where the problem comes in. It will be especially bad for new players as XLs will basically be a (cue Admiral Ackbar) trap: they will earn enough money for the initial buy cost of the engine, not realizing that the real barrier to using them is the astronomical ongoing maintenance costs. Cue entirely understandable frustration and abandonment of the game.


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