The debate actually poses a question: "What if the government finances the entirety of your education, while providing you with a monthly allowance, does that impose some kind of moral obligation to pursue a degree, that is more easily transformed into a job post-grad?"
This is the situation in Denmark, where the universities are pumping out more literaturemajors, than there are jobs for.
Ultimately what I think this whole jobs argument comes down to is why the fuck are you worrying about someone else's life? You should probably focus on your own, first.
If dude over here wants to get as stable as quickly as possible by climbing the corporate ladder doing things he hates, whats it to you?
If guy over there seeks personal fulfillment over stability and peruses what he loves, what skin is it off your nose?
If this lady to the left has found a happy medium between the two, why are you concerned about it?
None of these people have anything to do with you. The best thing you can do is let them find out the rights and wrongs of these choices themselves, rather than pushing whatever agenda your anecdotal life experience has formulated and looking down your nose at them when they don't follow that agenda.
Ultimately what I think this whole jobs argument comes down to is why the fuck are you worrying about someone else's life? You should probably focus on your own, first.
If dude over here wants to get as stable as quickly as possible by climbing the corporate ladder doing things he hates, whats it to you?
If guy over there seeks personal fulfillment over stability and peruses what he loves, what skin is it off your nose?
If this lady to the left has found a happy medium between the two, why are you concerned about it?
None of these people have anything to do with you. The best thing you can do is let them find out the rights and wrongs of these choices themselves, rather than pushing whatever agenda your anecdotal life experience has formulated and looking down your nose at them when they don't follow that agenda.
The only one being looked down on here is me for trying to make sure in my life I never again have to worry about having the experiences I had when I was a kid, and saying this it's a prefferable course of action.
Hell, when I was looking for a house I made sure it had a basement because "granades", even though that eventuality is pretty unlikely.
That's sort of what I was thinking. You can make any degree work for you. I didn't really follow the whole 'you've got to do stem or you'll never get a job' argument. As if a stem degree in itself was some sort of guarantee.
Never made this claim. I did make the claim that most STEM majors can find a well paying job right out of undergrad, while for humanities it's generally either not paid well or one has to continue on to grad school.
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
edited September 2012
[edit] this post was too harsh, but suffice to say, i am legitimately shocked there are still people in here stupid enough to keep going with this
people literally don't believe in historians making money itt
No one is looking down on you here Smrtnik, just disagreeing with your arguments.
the post from a page ago that a dozen people awsomed that says either I'm a shit person, or my mom is, or both (i can't quite parse it) says otherwise.
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
No one is looking down on you here Smrtnik, just disagreeing with your arguments.
the post from a page ago that a dozen people awsomed that says either I'm a shit person, or my mom is, or both (i can't quite parse it) says otherwise.
well i'm definitely looking down on you personally for being awful, but nobody here is making blanket assertions about the worthiness of STEM majors
[edit] this post was too harsh, but suffice to say, i am legitimately shocked there are still people in here stupid enough to keep going with this
people literally don't believe in historians making money itt
if you are advising some entertainment company on historically accurate stuff, or have written a bunch of books, or are a university proffessor then sure, but 2/3 of those are going to need to do grad school, and all 3 have limited "spots". Can go on to law school but that too is grad school. As far as I can see (do enlighten me otherwise), your undergrad-only option is teaching K-12, and we pay teachers pretty shitty unfortunately.
The two history majors I know (and yes, this is all anecdotal, but thats all I have as input), one did nursing right after and is a nurse now, while the other went on to grad school.
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CaptainBeyondI've been out walkingRegistered Userregular
[edit] this post was too harsh, but suffice to say, i am legitimately shocked there are still people in here stupid enough to keep going with this
people literally don't believe in historians making money itt
There are clearly historians who make money, but likely far less of them then in a more 'everyday' profession?
The example I think of in the UK is graphic design. Far more graphic designers then there are jobs available. Not saying they shouldn't study what they enjoy, but that they should be ready to do other work to survive.
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
there are research historians, archivists, librarians, writers, and a whole gigantic array of things you can do with a history degree, which hardly even constitutes the whole umbrella of "not STEM"
some of them fall under teaching, which you apparently dismiss with "we don't pay teachers well" which is totally true but also sorta doesn't take into account the fact that things like colleges and private schools exist
i was tempted to just post hot chocolate high velocity here because you're apparently totally incapable of grasping the nuanced idea that both humanities and science degrees are equally important to society and valid pursuits
Hot chocolate? That can't be what I'm thinking of.
To teach at any college they will want a Phd. I wasn't aware librarians need any degree. I'm not sure what a research historian or archivist are, but they sure sound like things one needs at least a masters for.
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Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
Considering grad school is another 2 - 8 years of loans (unless you are rich in which case no financial argument applies to you (and yes, if you can pay out of pocket the insanity that school costs now I'd say you are rich)), then yes grad school is a big obstacle.
How about the one down the street at your local town library?
Probably pretty well considering I still live in a college town.
You don't see how the second half of your argument weakens the first half?
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
pack it in humanities people
we've been proven wrong
+4
Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
well I mean
you asked the question.
The median salary for librarians is something like $55k.
My only issue with you is how quick you are to dismiss the desire to learn because of money. I'm getting two BAs. Psychology and philosophy. I could get a job right out of undergrad doing something unrelated to my fields. But I won't. Because I'm going to graduate school. Probably for clinical psychology. Because it's a field that I find incredibly interesting and would probably find fulfilling. I'm not doing it for the money. I don't care about the money. I just want to learn.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
i was also going to say something about pursuing a history degree because i'm really interested in it, but i don't think this guy is capable of processing a love of learning for it's own sake
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
i was also going to say something about pursuing a history degree because i'm really interested in it, but i don't think this guy is capable of processing a love of learning for it's own sake
I love learning for learning sake, but I'm not going to go into debt 40k a year for it. I have two big bookshelves and probably a third of that is historical non fiction.
I don't think you are capable of processing what it's like to live from one wad of cash under the table to another.
The bitterness faded when I made myself marketable and gained a valuable skillset
Now it's just disbelief that people keep feeding their children into the chipper
I'm never having children.
So I'm free to do whatever I want as long as I support myself!
Free to do things like never make plans to go out drinking
Cool stuff
You could always take the initiative and ask me for a specific day and time.
No I'm gonna pass a note to Misc who can pass it to Nino who can pass it to you
We should hang out next weekend or the week after maybe?
I have to finish painting my room this weekend so I can stop worrying that my landlord will catch me
I wish that I saw Nino often enough that this would work. I need more Nino in my life.
Whoa still weird to see my name on here. Heck Yeah we totes should have hangouts! I have been awandering DuPont circle the past few weeks and am all about hang outs in dc, especially now that the weather isn't instant swamp-assy. Let's do this thang! (someone else plan ish plz). We should do a brunch so I can get wasted on mimosas and hash browns
i was also going to say something about pursuing a history degree because i'm really interested in it, but i don't think this guy is capable of processing a love of learning for it's own sake
i was also going to say something about pursuing a history degree because i'm really interested in it, but i don't think this guy is capable of processing a love of learning for it's own sake
TW isn't exactly known for its pinpoint historical accuracy, especially given that the objective is usually to go as far off the rails as you possibly can
that's the point I thought you were making, anyway
i was also going to say something about pursuing a history degree because i'm really interested in it, but i don't think this guy is capable of processing a love of learning for it's own sake
I love learning for learning sake, but I'm not going to go into debt 40k a year for it. I have two big bookshelves and probably a third of that is historical non fiction.
I don't think you are capable of processing what it's like to live from one wad of cash under the table to another.
Honestly, I think the turning point here was when you assumed that guy was American, marched with the "99%" (quotes!), and thought money was free.
Hot chocolate? That can't be what I'm thinking of.
To teach at any college they will want a Phd. I wasn't aware librarians need any degree. I'm not sure what a research historian or archivist are, but they sure sound like things one needs at least a masters for.
Having a masters of library science would help with that last one, presumably. I think you'd have a hell of a time finding a librarian position with a college without one but, y'know, opinions.
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Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
To even hold the title of librarian, you need a masters.
Posts
This is the situation in Denmark, where the universities are pumping out more literaturemajors, than there are jobs for.
I wish that I saw Nino often enough that this would work. I need more Nino in my life.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
Ultimate truth, mang.
The Apocalypse Has Never Been More Fun
Secret Satan Wishlist!! Thinkgeek Wish List
because no engineer, mathematician, or scientist can love what they do?
"math is hard and boring"
It's like talking to an echo chamber in here.
That's not what's being said, and you know it.
e: as one of these maths students, maths is p awesome guys. I don't think I could spend 3/4 years studying something I didn't really enjoy.
Hell, when I was looking for a house I made sure it had a basement because "granades", even though that eventuality is pretty unlikely.
Never made this claim. I did make the claim that most STEM majors can find a well paying job right out of undergrad, while for humanities it's generally either not paid well or one has to continue on to grad school.
people literally don't believe in historians making money itt
the post from a page ago that a dozen people awsomed that says either I'm a shit person, or my mom is, or both (i can't quite parse it) says otherwise.
well i'm definitely looking down on you personally for being awful, but nobody here is making blanket assertions about the worthiness of STEM majors
The two history majors I know (and yes, this is all anecdotal, but thats all I have as input), one did nursing right after and is a nurse now, while the other went on to grad school.
There are clearly historians who make money, but likely far less of them then in a more 'everyday' profession?
The example I think of in the UK is graphic design. Far more graphic designers then there are jobs available. Not saying they shouldn't study what they enjoy, but that they should be ready to do other work to survive.
some of them fall under teaching, which you apparently dismiss with "we don't pay teachers well" which is totally true but also sorta doesn't take into account the fact that things like colleges and private schools exist
i was tempted to just post hot chocolate high velocity here because you're apparently totally incapable of grasping the nuanced idea that both humanities and science degrees are equally important to society and valid pursuits
It has a pretty detailed breakdown of where uk students went following the 2009/2010 academic year. The website looks pretty good as well
To teach at any college they will want a Phd. I wasn't aware librarians need any degree. I'm not sure what a research historian or archivist are, but they sure sound like things one needs at least a masters for.
The librarians have all made over six figures.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
congratulations on "worst poster" award
Probably pretty well considering I still live in a college town.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
You don't see how the second half of your argument weakens the first half?
we've been proven wrong
you asked the question.
The median salary for librarians is something like $55k.
My only issue with you is how quick you are to dismiss the desire to learn because of money. I'm getting two BAs. Psychology and philosophy. I could get a job right out of undergrad doing something unrelated to my fields. But I won't. Because I'm going to graduate school. Probably for clinical psychology. Because it's a field that I find incredibly interesting and would probably find fulfilling. I'm not doing it for the money. I don't care about the money. I just want to learn.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
Finite job markets
I don't think you are capable of processing what it's like to live from one wad of cash under the table to another.
Whoa still weird to see my name on here. Heck Yeah we totes should have hangouts! I have been awandering DuPont circle the past few weeks and am all about hang outs in dc, especially now that the weather isn't instant swamp-assy. Let's do this thang! (someone else plan ish plz). We should do a brunch so I can get wasted on mimosas and hash browns
Just play more TW
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
that's the point I thought you were making, anyway
Honestly, I think the turning point here was when you assumed that guy was American, marched with the "99%" (quotes!), and thought money was free.
Having a masters of library science would help with that last one, presumably. I think you'd have a hell of a time finding a librarian position with a college without one but, y'know, opinions.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll