I like dungeons and enjoy challenging encounters that force me to play differently than I do in the vast majority of PvE. Not for everyone. Lots of other content to enjoy!
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I'm interested to see what kind of live support Arenanet gives to GW2 once they are finished putting out fires and their game isn't constantly threatening to shit itself.
I have no idea what to expect from a game that claims to be a for-really-reals MMORPG but has no subscription fee. I do not think grinding to collect vanity gear constitutes a healthy endgame, and barely counts as "content" at all, so I'm waiting with bated breath to see what the strategy is.
My thoughts on this are that they will rely on microtransactions in the long run, start filling up the map's many potential spaces with new areas and content, experiment with new kinds of dungeon mechanics and dynamic events (specifically ones that aren't such bullshit or trolling, and fix the ones that are that way now), advance the story after Zhaitan to begin focusing on the other Dragons and other continents, balance and tune PvP and the game in general, and do more of the same. Anet's just busy with the launch reverberations. We are going to see some pretty sick stuff going forward I imagine.
In the meantime, back to farming Caudecus for my Nobleman set! Yay!
Unpopular opinion time: @Corehealer, I think the OP could really benefit from a little tidying up. Obviously pre-purchase info doesn't need to be there. The wall of boners could be moved to the community section. Put some of the trailers in spoilers. Drop the lines about professions being confirmed. Dungeon modes could be expanded on now that the game is actually out. Most of the press stuff could go.
All excellent ideas that I will get to doing eventually. Too busy playing.
Spits out fire that utterly demolishes you at all party members every few seconds,
Spins with flamethrowers fire out in all directions, heavily punishing melee combatants beyond the first AoE ability,
and my least favorite: "Purges conditions to self heal".
The last one was a personal screw over. The twenty fifth trait point unlock for the engineer's explosives is an upgrade that causes every every explosive I use to apply a 1% vulnerability condition. To make matters worse, dual pistols apply a condition with every attack. I had no attacks that wouldn't heal the boss and hurt my party! Even still, I had to pity the melee characters in the party as most bosses tend to screw melee over even harder.
We fought the boss for two minutes and barely pushed him past 80% of his health. I tried switching up my abilities and traits in future attempts, but it turns out that countering the placement of 30 trait points is fairly debilitating for one's effectiveness
That is the most egregious example in a worrying trend of "so you decided to focus on conditions eh? Well FUCK YOU!". The story mode destroyers who are immune to burning and thus really hurt elementalists/guardians who have focused on burning is another example.
It's not like you can just swap out all your trait points for free. You can reassign the chosen traits but others are locked into place.
I may try the occasional dungeon here and there from this point on but I will most certainly avoid them like the plague if I ever try to level another character up to 80.
tl;dr: Dungeons are not what I was hoping for in terms of mechanical balance, story, and rewards. I suggest avoiding them beyond completionism. I enjoyed WoW raiding more often than not too!
As far as I can tell dungeons are the worst source of exp/items there is. I was chugging along pretty reliably at one hour per level until I started doing dungeons.
One veteran mob that takes 5 minutes to kill is just nowhere near as much exp or items as aoe'ing one of 12 centaur waves in a dynamic event. As it is, when I feel I need gear upgrades, I most certainly do NOT think "Oh I'll go to a dungeon!" I think "Oh, I'll put on some magic find gear and go join a dynamic event slightly higher level than me!"
I'm always willing to give them a shot to check it out, and as environmental set-pieces most of them are at least interesting, but the actual encounters in them are just not very good. It feels like some of the least tested content in the game.
The only actual encounter I've felt like I was seeing something novel and fun was the final boss of Sorrow's Embrace, which was just so bizarre to come right after the completely bullshit un-fun fight with Kudu.
The cherry on top is the free helmet you get at the end of doing story mode, all of which share the same boring helmet model.
Spits out fire that utterly demolishes you at all party members every few seconds,
Spins with flamethrowers fire out in all directions, heavily punishing melee combatants beyond the first AoE ability,
and my least favorite: "Purges conditions to self heal".
The last one was a personal screw over. The twenty fifth trait point unlock for the engineer's explosives is an upgrade that causes every every explosive I use to apply a 1% vulnerability condition. To make matters worse, dual pistols apply a condition with every attack. I had no attacks that wouldn't heal the boss and hurt my party! Even still, I had to pity the melee characters in the party as most bosses tend to screw melee over even harder.
We fought the boss for two minutes and barely pushed him past 80% of his health. I tried switching up my abilities and traits in future attempts, but it turns out that countering the placement of 30 trait points is fairly debilitating for one's effectiveness
That is the most egregious example in a worrying trend of "so you decided to focus on conditions eh? Well FUCK YOU!". The story mode destroyers who are immune to burning and thus really hurt elementalists/guardians who have focused on burning is another example.
It's not like you can just swap out all your trait points for free. You can reassign the chosen traits but others are locked into place.
I think it's fairly clear that doing dungeons isn't your thing. Maybe avoid them and do the things you do enjoy?
I like well tuned dungeons. I dislike poorly tuned dungeons that are buggy messes and require you to run through them 70 times. From this thread, I am obviously not alone in thinking GW2's dungeons have a long way to go.
I do very much like the concept of the story mode dungeons however - it somehow feels a lot more compelling to be the party helping along specific notable adventurer(s) and seeing their plans, hopes, and interactions. I think cutscenes saying "Hey, here is the story behind this dungeon" are pretty neat. I don't know if WOW has them now, but initially it did not.
Well I'm not as harsh as all that but yeah, the dungeons clearly feel unfinished, and make me wonder why there were no public focused beta tests on them
It feels like they could stand a general reduction in mob HP (some of them suuuuuuuubstantially reduced) a balance onceover, and give us a karma bomb for completing them (once per day)
That is the most egregious example in a worrying trend of "so you decided to focus on conditions eh? Well FUCK YOU!". The story mode destroyers who are immune to burning and thus really hurt elementalists/guardians who have focused on burning is another example.
It's not like you can just swap out all your trait points for free. You can reassign the chosen traits but others are locked into place.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is usually a bad thing and there will be enemies that punish you for that behavior.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Sorry if some one else said this, but on the subject of "This gear is locked behind a grind!"
It's been said that it's entirely optional. It's a non-required item in order to be "top tier". If you still want it after knowing that, then you need to reconcile with yourself that you want to do that grind. It's hard to admit, but if you seek the optional item simply to become the "tippy top tier" than you are the targetted audiance. Because you want to have the rare, hard to get gear.
So just go grind. It wouldn't be a desirable, rare, top dog item if it wasn't locked behind something. That is the entire point of gating content. To make it elitist.
Edit: Now, if you're complaining about doing the grind while doing it. That's different and acceptable. Whining about grinding has been a feature of every MMO ever, and will continue to be. We complain about difficult stuff.
It's valid to complain about the quantity of the grind.
Just because I want to eat pizza, doesn't mean I want to be force fed 5 lbs of it in one sitting.
70 runs @ 15 minutes \ run (someone else's figure. I'm not sure I trust it) isn't bad at all. That is 15 hours for a full matching set of max stats, cool looking armor. OTOH, 70 runs @ 60-90 minutes with the occasional crash / failed group is insane.
Edit: While a lot of the intent behind the dungeons is great, they need some serious rebalancing. As others have said, trash is too hard, and melee is heavily punished in a very large percentage of all fights. The Golem in mansion being a great example. The missiles barely have any signature as is, and if you are in melee, you have to tank them, which isn't possible due to their high damage. Ditto for the 100-0 stunlock comboing shotgun boss. A challenge is nice, but being chain stunned from 100-0, to include 100-0 while downed, is ridiculous.
I'd like to see more subtle changes too, like moving a bit of mob power on some enemies to buffs and/or conditions. As a Necro, I often felt like I was not getting good depth out of some of my tools, though that may change with other dungeons.
I guess one of the reasons I'm so appalled at the idea we're going to run through every dungeon 70 times is just the difficulty of getting your group into the dungeon together in the first place: I've had one AC run completely fall apart because after 30 minutes of trying we couldn't all get in the same instance and one CM run fell apart because it bugged out and we couldn't progress any further. Maybe that is giving me an unnecessarily dour outlook on dungeon running, I don't know.
You are one of those people who complained about how hard it was to unlock every tier of Guild Wars 1 HoM rewards in the last month before GW2 launch, aren't you?
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
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eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
The best part about dungeon runs are the dungeons that require 10-20 people to finish the really long events that opens the entrance. Crucible of Eternity and Arah both need to be unlocked regularly and it's pretty damn easy to fail the Arah one.
As for hard trash, all of Story Crucible of Eternity's trash with Asura mobs were harder than any of the bosses.
Explorer CM felt really well paced and evenly tuned though.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Everything else in this game is amazing but stuff like the Catcombs (both modes) is just starting to feel really off. I don't know how to describe it, it just doesn't flow right to me.
I've done them both and despite wanting the equipment sets, I never want to go back in there again which I never thought I would see myself saying so soon.
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
Whenever someone asks "Hey, want to do a dungeon?" I'm always enthusiastic. Until I get halfway through the dungeon, and I wonder WTF am I doing with my time. A majority of the fights are just not enjoyable to me. Most of them have 1 mechanic that you absolutely must dodge that they do about every 10 seconds, and then they have enough health to make the fight last 10+ minutes.
The dungeons seem to drag on and on. And I don't have the willpower to say no to something I haven't seen before. It's always "Well, maybe this dungeon will be different?" And it never is. It never is. Just a long slog through a dungeon.
I understand the argument that the dungeon sets are just for vanity, and because of that it's okay to require a grind. But, dungeons require a full group of people to do. If I am someone that doesn't give a shit about the dungeon set, or am just not willing to grind out 70 runs of that dungeon, what is my reasoning to help you out other than we are bros? It is my belief that the majority of the player base is not willing to put in the time and effort to acquire these dungeon sets. So what we are left with is people begging friends to do a dungeon with them, or finding a guild that is dedicated to getting people these sets.
So how is this different from WoW Raiding?
I too have found dungeons incredibly underwhelming to actually quite miserable.
Mechanically, they're quite a mess. Long boss fights with often no "phase changes" to switch things up, just really bullshit powers that kill the shit out of you and little to no mechanics to warn you of the danger. Tedious trash pulls that just seem to have too much health.
The one that took the cake for me was Sorrow's Embrace, Kudu's Second Golem boss whom does all the following:
Spits out fire that utterly demolishes you at all party members every few seconds,
Spins with flamethrowers fire out in all directions, heavily punishing melee combatants beyond the first AoE ability,
and my least favorite: "Purges conditions to self heal".
The last one was a personal screw over. The twenty fifth trait point unlock for the engineer's explosives is an upgrade that causes every every explosive I use to apply a 1% vulnerability condition. To make matters worse, dual pistols apply a condition with every attack. I had no attacks that wouldn't heal the boss and hurt my party! Even still, I had to pity the melee characters in the party as most bosses tend to screw melee over even harder.
We fought the boss for two minutes and barely pushed him past 80% of his health. I tried switching up my abilities and traits in future attempts, but it turns out that countering the placement of 30 trait points is fairly debilitating for one's effectiveness. We failed to drop that boss (which is a shame because I really wanted to watch Kudu taste dirt.) which put a huge dampener on the attempt.
Story wise, dungeons are almost all exactly the same and not much to write home about. I was disappointed that Sorrows Embrace (the level 60 one) was still focused on the plot thread on about how destiny's edge totally hates each other and are being pricks about the past. That was the story in AC and CM! I sort of skipped the level 50 dungeon because I figured that maybe dungeons weren't for me, but I decided to step back into Sorrow's Embrace because I really enjoyed Zojja's character in my first Asura story quests (when she's not being a childish prick) and wanted to see an evolution from her spiteful character that she is outside of the starter zone apparently. It didn't happen to my dismay (although, I failed to complete the dungeon so maybe it would have at the end of Sorrow's Embrace!)
To take the cake, dungeons don't even give terribly competitive rewards. Simply doing a few hearts in a competitive zone is easier, gives more experience and gives you about as many upgrades to your gear. Events in the world are more dynamic and better tuned than boss fights in my experience. Not to mention chances to mine/chop/harvest for crafting and the fact that killing one mob doesn't take 1-2 minutes per mob so you get more to salvage.
I may try the occasional dungeon here and there from this point on but I will most certainly avoid them like the plague if I ever try to level another character up to 80.
tl;dr: Dungeons are not what I was hoping for in terms of mechanical balance, story, and rewards. I suggest avoiding them beyond completionism. I enjoyed WoW raiding more often than not too!
If anything, GW2 is really making me sit back and analyze what exactly made WoW raiding so interesting for me for so long.
In my enjoyment of GW2, I'm becoming less interested in "explorer" mode activites: dyanmic events, jumping puzzles, finding new waypoints, revealing more of the map, etc. I'm starting to become more interested in the game that lays beyond the scenery: activites that require group strategizing, and getting better at something in order to do something difficult. In WoW, I found that in raiding. In the original Guild Wars, I found that in the Halls of Heroes and Guild vs Guild PvP. But in GW2, I'm not really sure what that will be.
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
And now I have a sudden urge to play Roller Coaster Tycoon.
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
And all the people inside the amusement park are bitching about the dungeons.
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
And all the people inside the amusement park are bitching about the dungeons.
I don't think it's fair to characterize our discussion in that way, man.
That is the most egregious example in a worrying trend of "so you decided to focus on conditions eh? Well FUCK YOU!". The story mode destroyers who are immune to burning and thus really hurt elementalists/guardians who have focused on burning is another example.
It's not like you can just swap out all your trait points for free. You can reassign the chosen traits but others are locked into place.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is usually a bad thing and there will be enemies that punish you for that behavior.
First off, it's not putting all your eggs in one basket, it's choosing to build your character in a focused, synergistic direction. If you think this has traditionally been a bad thing in MMO's you are just flat out incorrect. Usually it's the hybrid builds that have suffered and been sub par.
The fact that arena.net is taking a different tack and making everyone be a hybrid (no more holy trinity) is a welcome change of direction. I have no issue with mobs that punish a specific build, as long as
1) You can avoid them and go fight other mobs
2) Other builds also have monsters they are weak against
I think you'll see why having a boss that is worse than immune to conditions (actually heals off of them!) fails this test.
I have seen quite a few monsters that are immune to burning. I haven't seen any that are immune to face stabbing. That's not a clever system to discourage people putting all their eggs in one basket, it's an arbitrary limitation that has a disparate impact on a couple classes. My necromance couldn't care less about people being immune to burning. For my guardian, it's a pretty big deal - because my class sets things on fire as part of its damage, no matter how I choose to spec or trait.
I guess one of the reasons I'm so appalled at the idea we're going to run through every dungeon 70 times is just the difficulty of getting your group into the dungeon together in the first place: I've had one AC run completely fall apart because after 30 minutes of trying we couldn't all get in the same instance and one CM run fell apart because it bugged out and we couldn't progress any further. Maybe that is giving me an unnecessarily dour outlook on dungeon running, I don't know.
You are one of those people who complained about how hard it was to unlock every tier of Guild Wars 1 HoM rewards in the last month before GW2 launch, aren't you?
I like how you combine defending buggy, unfinished content with absurdly incorrect sweeping generalizations. I never tried for the HoM rewards at all as it wasn't my cup of tea.
The main problem I have is with the entire concept of "grinding" as an acceptable form of entertainment. In the days of MMO past, grinding existed because keeping people subscribed to the game was paramount to making money. Content time sinks were put in place to make sure that people would not clear all available content too quickly and unsubscribe. But GW2 doesn't have a subscription. There is no reason to add content that artificially extends the amount of time I will be enjoying the game.
We all play these games and I feel I would be safe in saying that the majority of us are above the 'casual' level of play. We are pretty good at the games we play and we all pride ourselves on the level of skill we have. As part of that we enjoy the level of recognition that comes with being skilled. Appearance only armor is a great way to recognize those players that are a step above the pack. I recognize this. The problem is when you make the barrier to entry time instead of skill.
"Ok, player, you completed the dungeon and killed the boss. You have great skill. But can you do it 69 more times!"
I mean...probably. Boss fights in these games are usually pretty binary. You might still struggle a little each time you go back, but usually if you've figured out the best strategy once you've beaten a boss the first time you'll certainly be able to do it over and over again. But...why? Why is the game seemingly so against rewarding people who were skilled enough to complete the hardest dungeon content in the game until they've proven they can do it seventy times.
I love the fact that I don't have to do this silly grind to see all the content there is to offer and I agree with previous posters that Arena.net has done a great job at bucking that trend. What a still don't understand is the point of having excessively long grinds like this at all.
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
you know, all this grinding makes my lap hot while holding my laptop. anyone know of a lapdesk that will hold an Asus G74 and a mouse?
also, i'm ok with ginding dungeons for pretty armors. those tokens though... are they tradeable? perhaps ANet figured that those tokens could be a form of currency, kinda like how Ectoplasm was in GW1.
Random post: has anyone seen the episode of South Park where Cartman owns the amusement park and won't let anyone come? ArenaNet marketing has seen it.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
And all the people inside the amusement park are bitching about the dungeons.
I don't think it's fair to characterize our discussion in that way, man.
Yeah you're right...my bad. I just feel like there are people who have been locked out of their accounts/haven't been able to purchase/etc. and there is some nitpicking.
The game is a blast. It's not perfect, but the problems can be addressed. Will they be? Idk, stay tuned.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
So far, the PVE (not including dungeons) has been my favorite of any MMORPG I've played.
Jumping puzzles, hearts, no hassle material gathering, dynamic events, vistas, it just all kind of satisfied every itch I have all at the same time. I never feel stuck in one place or task for too long.
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
There are two "main" PA guilds. There's also an EU guild in the OP, as well as an SE++ guild (Shrub Club). These are the main PA guilds (that include anyone from PA, no mattering if they're in G&T/DD/SE, etc).
What A Nice Guild [NICE]
Leader: Corehealer
Officers: Geod, Draygo, Entaru, Enig, Arthil, TolerantZero, Vivixenne, Rysk
Status: Full (500/500 members)
The Candymancers
Leader: Umarth
Officers: Entaru, Wolve, Sindahl
Status: Open
These aren't all in game names (though some are), as I don't know them off the top of my head. I think the theory is we'll consolidate at some point back into one guild, but we can't currently tell when the last time somebody logged on was so we can't really clear out room in NICE.
I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up on dungeons quite yet.
There is a certain metagame that comes from the tank/healer/dps trinity that I have become very fluent in and maybe I forgot that it was not always a given. I played The Secret World a few weeks ago when it came out and had a blast doing the dungeons. I rolled a tank, my brother a healer and we would pick up three pugs for dps and steamroll through them. There where challenging moments as we learned the fights and we would wipe, but for the most part we knew the system, the intricacies and the subtleties of threat, healing and damage dealing that we now take for granted.
In contrast to that experience, I still remember the first few times I was exposed to the trinity system back in vanilla WoW. I had groups with no dedicated tanking class or an offspec healer that wiped repeatedly and got nowhere. Little by little I learned to fine tune my builds and I learned of the different responsibilities the system expected from each role. The developers also helped by adapting fights to how the players formed groups as the trinity became a standard. Threat became a much more formal system and fairly transparent mechanics separated healing, dps and tanking specs.
I'm kind of excited to be learning a new system. There is a lot to explore in terms of group synergy, trait builds and coordination. Guild Wars's system is a lot more free-form than the previous trinity but there is still a need for synergy, it's just that now there isn't a clear distinction between roles. There are certain functions that the party needs to perform that get split across the players. Damage dealing, boon stripping, condition cleansing and control are some examples of functions that a party needs to include in their traits, weapon choices and utilities, but they aren't separated by roles. One player can focus on cleansing, or the party can grab cleansing abilities across different players, and a player that may have chosen traits and weapons skills for high damage may also have support abilities from their utility choices.
So I'm hoping that there are other people in the guild that are as willing as I am to explore the system before giving up on it and want to make sure that the whole party is ready for the dungeon before judging it too hard.
well bleh, then. still, it's not so bad, because the armors are purely cosmetic. 70 is a bit steep, i won't be there for awhile, so there very well may be some tweeks to it in the future.
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
I'm an officer in both the main PA guild and the guild that is letting us use it's space for overflow, The Candymancers. Right now we are experiencing a high load of people who are coming into the game and the thread is moving fast so please send a tell to Wolve, Umarth or Phenyhelm to get into the overflow guild.
Thanks!
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
There are two "main" PA guilds. There's also an EU guild in the OP, as well as an SE++ guild (Shrub Club). These are the main PA guilds (that include anyone from PA, no mattering if they're in G&T/DD/SE, etc).
What A Nice Guild [NICE]
Leader: Corehealer
Officers: Geod, Draygo, Entaru, Enig, Arthil, TolerantZero, Vivixenne, Rysk
Status: Full (500/500 members)
Candymancers
Leader: Entaru
Officers: Umarth, Wolve, Sindahl
Status: Open
These aren't all in game names (though some are), as I don't know them off the top of my head. I think the theory is we'll consolidate at some point back into one guild, but we can't currently tell when the last time somebody logged on was so we can't really clear out room in NICE.
I'm definitely not The Candymancer's leader. That's Umarth.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
There are two "main" PA guilds. There's also an EU guild in the OP, as well as an SE++ guild (Shrub Club). These are the main PA guilds (that include anyone from PA, no mattering if they're in G&T/DD/SE, etc).
What A Nice Guild [NICE]
Leader: Corehealer
Officers: Geod, Draygo, Entaru, Enig, Arthil, TolerantZero, Vivixenne, Rysk
Status: Full (500/500 members)
Candymancers
Leader: Entaru
Officers: Umarth, Wolve, Sindahl
Status: Open
These aren't all in game names (though some are), as I don't know them off the top of my head. I think the theory is we'll consolidate at some point back into one guild, but we can't currently tell when the last time somebody logged on was so we can't really clear out room in NICE.
I'm definitely not The Candymancer's leader. That's Umarth.
The OP is out of date and folks are asking about PA guilds. You cannot search for guild names in the UI and the character search is pretty useless.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
There are two "main" PA guilds. There's also an EU guild in the OP, as well as an SE++ guild (Shrub Club). These are the main PA guilds (that include anyone from PA, no mattering if they're in G&T/DD/SE, etc).
What A Nice Guild [NICE]
Leader: Corehealer
Officers: Geod, Draygo, Entaru, Enig, Arthil, TolerantZero, Vivixenne, Rysk
Status: Full (500/500 members)
Candymancers
Leader: Entaru
Officers: Umarth, Wolve, Sindahl
Status: Open
These aren't all in game names (though some are), as I don't know them off the top of my head. I think the theory is we'll consolidate at some point back into one guild, but we can't currently tell when the last time somebody logged on was so we can't really clear out room in NICE.
I'm definitely not The Candymancer's leader. That's Umarth.
Sorry about that, edited my post.
I just don't want him to know about the rebellion I'm staging. Not quite yet.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up on dungeons quite yet.
There is a certain metagame that comes from the tank/healer/dps trinity that I have become very fluent in and maybe I forgot that it was not always a given. I played The Secret World a few weeks ago when it came out and had a blast doing the dungeons. I rolled a tank, my brother a healer and we would pick up three pugs for dps and steamroll through them. There where challenging moments as we learned the fights and we would wipe, but for the most part we knew the system, the intricacies and the subtleties of threat, healing and damage dealing that we now take for granted.
In contrast to that experience, I still remember the first few times I was exposed to the trinity system back in vanilla WoW. I had groups with no dedicated tanking class or an offspec healer that wiped repeatedly and got nowhere. Little by little I learned to fine tune my builds and I learned of the different responsibilities the system expected from each role. The developers also helped by adapting fights to how the players formed groups as the trinity became a standard. Threat became a much more formal system and fairly transparent mechanics separated healing, dps and tanking specs.
I'm kind of excited to be learning a new system. There is a lot to explore in terms of group synergy, trait builds and coordination. Guild Wars's system is a lot more free-form than the previous trinity but there is still a need for synergy, it's just that now there isn't a clear distinction between roles. There are certain functions that the party needs to perform that get split across the players. Damage dealing, boon stripping, condition cleansing and control are some examples of functions that a party needs to include in their traits, weapon choices and utilities, but they aren't separated by roles. One player can focus on cleansing, or the party can grab cleansing abilities across different players, and a player that may have chosen traits and weapons skills for high damage may also have support abilities from their utility choices.
So I'm hoping that there are other people in the guild that are as willing as I am to explore the system before giving up on it and want to make sure that the whole party is ready for the dungeon before judging it too hard.
I certainly am one of those people, and i'm sure there are others in the guild with a similar outlook open to experimentation instead of just writing dungeons off after a week of play.
Delphinidaes on
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My thoughts on this are that they will rely on microtransactions in the long run, start filling up the map's many potential spaces with new areas and content, experiment with new kinds of dungeon mechanics and dynamic events (specifically ones that aren't such bullshit or trolling, and fix the ones that are that way now), advance the story after Zhaitan to begin focusing on the other Dragons and other continents, balance and tune PvP and the game in general, and do more of the same. Anet's just busy with the launch reverberations. We are going to see some pretty sick stuff going forward I imagine.
In the meantime, back to farming Caudecus for my Nobleman set! Yay!
All excellent ideas that I will get to doing eventually. Too busy playing.
That is the most egregious example in a worrying trend of "so you decided to focus on conditions eh? Well FUCK YOU!". The story mode destroyers who are immune to burning and thus really hurt elementalists/guardians who have focused on burning is another example.
It's not like you can just swap out all your trait points for free. You can reassign the chosen traits but others are locked into place.
As far as I can tell dungeons are the worst source of exp/items there is. I was chugging along pretty reliably at one hour per level until I started doing dungeons.
One veteran mob that takes 5 minutes to kill is just nowhere near as much exp or items as aoe'ing one of 12 centaur waves in a dynamic event. As it is, when I feel I need gear upgrades, I most certainly do NOT think "Oh I'll go to a dungeon!" I think "Oh, I'll put on some magic find gear and go join a dynamic event slightly higher level than me!"
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
I'm always willing to give them a shot to check it out, and as environmental set-pieces most of them are at least interesting, but the actual encounters in them are just not very good. It feels like some of the least tested content in the game.
The only actual encounter I've felt like I was seeing something novel and fun was the final boss of Sorrow's Embrace, which was just so bizarre to come right after the completely bullshit un-fun fight with Kudu.
The cherry on top is the free helmet you get at the end of doing story mode, all of which share the same boring helmet model.
I think it's fairly clear that doing dungeons isn't your thing. Maybe avoid them and do the things you do enjoy?
I do very much like the concept of the story mode dungeons however - it somehow feels a lot more compelling to be the party helping along specific notable adventurer(s) and seeing their plans, hopes, and interactions. I think cutscenes saying "Hey, here is the story behind this dungeon" are pretty neat. I don't know if WOW has them now, but initially it did not.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
It feels like they could stand a general reduction in mob HP (some of them suuuuuuuubstantially reduced) a balance onceover, and give us a karma bomb for completing them (once per day)
Putting all your eggs in one basket is usually a bad thing and there will be enemies that punish you for that behavior.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
It's valid to complain about the quantity of the grind.
Just because I want to eat pizza, doesn't mean I want to be force fed 5 lbs of it in one sitting.
70 runs @ 15 minutes \ run (someone else's figure. I'm not sure I trust it) isn't bad at all. That is 15 hours for a full matching set of max stats, cool looking armor. OTOH, 70 runs @ 60-90 minutes with the occasional crash / failed group is insane.
Edit: While a lot of the intent behind the dungeons is great, they need some serious rebalancing. As others have said, trash is too hard, and melee is heavily punished in a very large percentage of all fights. The Golem in mansion being a great example. The missiles barely have any signature as is, and if you are in melee, you have to tank them, which isn't possible due to their high damage. Ditto for the 100-0 stunlock comboing shotgun boss. A challenge is nice, but being chain stunned from 100-0, to include 100-0 while downed, is ridiculous.
I'd like to see more subtle changes too, like moving a bit of mob power on some enemies to buffs and/or conditions. As a Necro, I often felt like I was not getting good depth out of some of my tools, though that may change with other dungeons.
You are one of those people who complained about how hard it was to unlock every tier of Guild Wars 1 HoM rewards in the last month before GW2 launch, aren't you?
As for hard trash, all of Story Crucible of Eternity's trash with Asura mobs were harder than any of the bosses.
Explorer CM felt really well paced and evenly tuned though.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I've done them both and despite wanting the equipment sets, I never want to go back in there again which I never thought I would see myself saying so soon.
I get the sentiment, but the better analogy might be that the amusement park is at capacity, and if they let another 40,000 people in, kids would get trampled in the street, roller coasters would crash from excess weight, and people would be crapping themselves in line for the bathroom.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
You will want a full party, but there are also NPC members of destiny's edge in there with you helping you.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
If anything, GW2 is really making me sit back and analyze what exactly made WoW raiding so interesting for me for so long.
In my enjoyment of GW2, I'm becoming less interested in "explorer" mode activites: dyanmic events, jumping puzzles, finding new waypoints, revealing more of the map, etc. I'm starting to become more interested in the game that lays beyond the scenery: activites that require group strategizing, and getting better at something in order to do something difficult. In WoW, I found that in raiding. In the original Guild Wars, I found that in the Halls of Heroes and Guild vs Guild PvP. But in GW2, I'm not really sure what that will be.
And now I have a sudden urge to play Roller Coaster Tycoon.
And all the people inside the amusement park are bitching about the dungeons.
Spoil the beginning of the second part of the Sylvari newbie area jumping puzzle.
You know, after the spiders for rangers.
I tried a number of things, but could not figure out how to continue, so I figured there wasn't one.
I don't think it's fair to characterize our discussion in that way, man.
First off, it's not putting all your eggs in one basket, it's choosing to build your character in a focused, synergistic direction. If you think this has traditionally been a bad thing in MMO's you are just flat out incorrect. Usually it's the hybrid builds that have suffered and been sub par.
The fact that arena.net is taking a different tack and making everyone be a hybrid (no more holy trinity) is a welcome change of direction. I have no issue with mobs that punish a specific build, as long as
1) You can avoid them and go fight other mobs
2) Other builds also have monsters they are weak against
I think you'll see why having a boss that is worse than immune to conditions (actually heals off of them!) fails this test.
I have seen quite a few monsters that are immune to burning. I haven't seen any that are immune to face stabbing. That's not a clever system to discourage people putting all their eggs in one basket, it's an arbitrary limitation that has a disparate impact on a couple classes. My necromance couldn't care less about people being immune to burning. For my guardian, it's a pretty big deal - because my class sets things on fire as part of its damage, no matter how I choose to spec or trait.
I like how you combine defending buggy, unfinished content with absurdly incorrect sweeping generalizations. I never tried for the HoM rewards at all as it wasn't my cup of tea.
Since you have lost your bet, you owe me 1 gold.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
We all play these games and I feel I would be safe in saying that the majority of us are above the 'casual' level of play. We are pretty good at the games we play and we all pride ourselves on the level of skill we have. As part of that we enjoy the level of recognition that comes with being skilled. Appearance only armor is a great way to recognize those players that are a step above the pack. I recognize this. The problem is when you make the barrier to entry time instead of skill.
"Ok, player, you completed the dungeon and killed the boss. You have great skill. But can you do it 69 more times!"
I mean...probably. Boss fights in these games are usually pretty binary. You might still struggle a little each time you go back, but usually if you've figured out the best strategy once you've beaten a boss the first time you'll certainly be able to do it over and over again. But...why? Why is the game seemingly so against rewarding people who were skilled enough to complete the hardest dungeon content in the game until they've proven they can do it seventy times.
I love the fact that I don't have to do this silly grind to see all the content there is to offer and I agree with previous posters that Arena.net has done a great job at bucking that trend. What a still don't understand is the point of having excessively long grinds like this at all.
It looks like Entaru is the PA name of the guild leader, can we get the updated guild info into the OP? I'm at work so I can't get on TS and ask around.
also, i'm ok with ginding dungeons for pretty armors. those tokens though... are they tradeable? perhaps ANet figured that those tokens could be a form of currency, kinda like how Ectoplasm was in GW1.
Yeah you're right...my bad. I just feel like there are people who have been locked out of their accounts/haven't been able to purchase/etc. and there is some nitpicking.
The game is a blast. It's not perfect, but the problems can be addressed. Will they be? Idk, stay tuned.
Jumping puzzles, hearts, no hassle material gathering, dynamic events, vistas, it just all kind of satisfied every itch I have all at the same time. I never feel stuck in one place or task for too long.
There are two "main" PA guilds. There's also an EU guild in the OP, as well as an SE++ guild (Shrub Club). These are the main PA guilds (that include anyone from PA, no mattering if they're in G&T/DD/SE, etc).
What A Nice Guild [NICE]
Leader: Corehealer
Officers: Geod, Draygo, Entaru, Enig, Arthil, TolerantZero, Vivixenne, Rysk
Status: Full (500/500 members)
The Candymancers
Leader: Umarth
Officers: Entaru, Wolve, Sindahl
Status: Open
These aren't all in game names (though some are), as I don't know them off the top of my head. I think the theory is we'll consolidate at some point back into one guild, but we can't currently tell when the last time somebody logged on was so we can't really clear out room in NICE.
There is a certain metagame that comes from the tank/healer/dps trinity that I have become very fluent in and maybe I forgot that it was not always a given. I played The Secret World a few weeks ago when it came out and had a blast doing the dungeons. I rolled a tank, my brother a healer and we would pick up three pugs for dps and steamroll through them. There where challenging moments as we learned the fights and we would wipe, but for the most part we knew the system, the intricacies and the subtleties of threat, healing and damage dealing that we now take for granted.
In contrast to that experience, I still remember the first few times I was exposed to the trinity system back in vanilla WoW. I had groups with no dedicated tanking class or an offspec healer that wiped repeatedly and got nowhere. Little by little I learned to fine tune my builds and I learned of the different responsibilities the system expected from each role. The developers also helped by adapting fights to how the players formed groups as the trinity became a standard. Threat became a much more formal system and fairly transparent mechanics separated healing, dps and tanking specs.
I'm kind of excited to be learning a new system. There is a lot to explore in terms of group synergy, trait builds and coordination. Guild Wars's system is a lot more free-form than the previous trinity but there is still a need for synergy, it's just that now there isn't a clear distinction between roles. There are certain functions that the party needs to perform that get split across the players. Damage dealing, boon stripping, condition cleansing and control are some examples of functions that a party needs to include in their traits, weapon choices and utilities, but they aren't separated by roles. One player can focus on cleansing, or the party can grab cleansing abilities across different players, and a player that may have chosen traits and weapons skills for high damage may also have support abilities from their utility choices.
So I'm hoping that there are other people in the guild that are as willing as I am to explore the system before giving up on it and want to make sure that the whole party is ready for the dungeon before judging it too hard.
well bleh, then. still, it's not so bad, because the armors are purely cosmetic. 70 is a bit steep, i won't be there for awhile, so there very well may be some tweeks to it in the future.
I'm an officer in both the main PA guild and the guild that is letting us use it's space for overflow, The Candymancers. Right now we are experiencing a high load of people who are coming into the game and the thread is moving fast so please send a tell to Wolve, Umarth or Phenyhelm to get into the overflow guild.
Thanks!
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I'm definitely not The Candymancer's leader. That's Umarth.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Sorry about that, edited my post.
I just don't want him to know about the rebellion I'm staging. Not quite yet.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I certainly am one of those people, and i'm sure there are others in the guild with a similar outlook open to experimentation instead of just writing dungeons off after a week of play.
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