A friend just pointed out that Deathrite Shaman is probably why birds didn't get reprinted. Which is silly and bad design, but almost certainly accurate.
birds in the 3rd set would make sense considering its supposed to include all 10 guilds, which I'm sure in limited would be a mana base nightmare without them or something similar
They could also be saving Birds for the second or third set, which would make sense from a limited format perspective.
Deathrite Shaman is my favourite card in the set so far, so I'm ok with a lack of Birds.
I actually really like Shaman as a limited card and you're right, Gruul/Simic could have birds, although I kind of doubt it since that would be one-drop fixers for a ramp deck.
Shaman for constructed...I do not see how a midrange gifts rock deck comes together with this pool of cards.
drp527We sacrifice our ownThat more may rise in their placeRegistered Userregular
supposedly the remaining Selesnya mythic is going to be a 5/5 trample wurm for 2GGWW that gives you a second 5/5 trample wurm when it enters the battlefield
so basically Broodmate Wurm (it is called Armada Wurm is the person giving this information is correct)
FrankoSometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeatRegistered Userregular
There are talks that these are some more cards
Armada Wurm
2GGWW
Creature-Wurm
Trample
When ~ enters the battlefield, but a 5/5 Wurm token with trample onto the battlefield.
5/5
Azorius Keyrune
3
Artifact
T: Add W or U to your mana pool
WU: Azorius Keyrune becomes a 2/2 Blue and White creature with flying until end of turn.
Codex Shredder - 1
Artifact
tap: Target player puts the top card of their library into their graveyard
5, tap: Sac Codex Shredder: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand
Volatile Rig - 4
Artifact Creature
Trample
Volatile Rig attacks each turn if able
Whenever Volatile Rig is dealt damage, flip a coin. if you lose the flip, sac Volatile Rig.
When Volatile Rig dies, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, it deals 4 damage to each creature and player
4/4
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FrankoSometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeatRegistered Userregular
I so want to make a pauper walls deck with overgrown battlement and the new overgrown battlement and the new wall that searches up gates and cloudposts and glimmerposts and rolling thunders for 20.
"bad llanowar elves" seems like an unfair thing to say when shock lands exist.
Contingent acceleration and 0 fixing? I'm not falling out of my chair to run it. I mean, if I needed it I would, but it's not the bees knees - certainly not a replacement for birds.
I don't see any particular reason that birds has to be in standard. Maybe they don't want it there for a reason.
It doesn't have to be, it just always has been. It enables most, if not all, of the mid-longrange green ramp strategies that have existed over the years. Removing it without a 1:1 replacement (and I don't think Shaman's good enough to be a 1:1) means that either they believe there are sufficient replacements or they don't want that kind of a ramp strategy to exist in this particular format. If it's the latter, it would be the first time they've decided that.
"bad llanowar elves" seems like an unfair thing to say when shock lands exist.
Contingent acceleration and 0 fixing? I'm not falling out of my chair to run it. I mean, if I needed it I would, but it's not the bees knees - certainly not a replacement for birds.
Plus it's not a mana ability so someone can kill your Arbor elf in reaction to you trying to use its ability, denying you its power.
Apologies if this has already been stated, but if I read correctly, this will be the first time, the very first time in the history of Magic-The Gathering that Birds of Paradise will not be legal for all formats.
Apologies if this has already been stated, but if I read correctly, this will be the first time, the very first time in the history of Magic-The Gathering that Birds of Paradise will not be legal for all formats.
I don't see any particular reason that birds has to be in standard. Maybe they don't want it there for a reason.
It doesn't have to be, it just always has been. It enables most, if not all, of the mid-longrange green ramp strategies that have existed over the years. Removing it without a 1:1 replacement (and I don't think Shaman's good enough to be a 1:1) means that either they believe there are sufficient replacements or they don't want that kind of a ramp strategy to exist in this particular format. If it's the latter, it would be the first time they've decided that.
The ability still works even if the arbor elf is killed before it resolves.
How?
The only ability I know that doesn't go on the stack is mana abilities like Birds or Llanwar.
Arbor elf distinctly doesn't have that ability.
The effect is already on the stack, and will still occur even if the source is destroyed. The Arbor Elf taps itself as the cost of the ability, so that happens before the opponent can respond.
If the source needed to stick around, effects that have, "Sacrifice this creature," as a cost would be pointless.
Edit: The relevant rule:
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
You can trickbind or stifle arbor elf. That is the only way in which its ability not being a mana source is relevant.
So if my opponent has a guy with tap-deal one damage to target creature and activates the ability and I shock him in response he still get to do that damage?
I started typing that while holding shift, realized caps lock was on, turned off caps lock, then typed the word holding down shift.
Wooo
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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FrankoSometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeatRegistered Userregular
edited September 2012
112.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
IMO one of the more confusing rules
Edit: wow I just do not see other peoples posts today, I'm dumb
112.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
IMO one of the more confusing rules
Edit: wow I just do not see other peoples posts today, I'm dumb
This is another section of the rules that needs to be rewritten, IMO. They put it together in a sort of awful fashion to prevent newbs from being screwed over by the stack, but now newbs think they can shock a guy and stop the trigger, which isn't right either. Unfortunately what I want would require another mass Oracle rewrite of any card with an activated ability that references making the object do something (like "UR: Prodigal Pyromancer makes a pony") to just doing something (like "UR: put a pony into play").
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
"bad llanowar elves" seems like an unfair thing to say when shock lands exist.
Contingent acceleration and 0 fixing? I'm not falling out of my chair to run it. I mean, if I needed it I would, but it's not the bees knees - certainly not a replacement for birds.
Plus it's not a mana ability so someone can kill your Arbor elf in reaction to you trying to use its ability, denying you its power.
You forget that this block has land enchantments.
So early game it helps you with mana and late game it lets you double tap your land-chant.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Then someone plays Mutilate.
Needs to be turned into a haiku.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Monoblack plays Mutilate
Green White gets frustrate
Red top decks a bonfire
Green White flips table
Mutilate has taken hold
None are left to mourn
Deathrite Shaman is my favourite card in the set so far, so I'm ok with a lack of Birds.
I actually really like Shaman as a limited card and you're right, Gruul/Simic could have birds, although I kind of doubt it since that would be one-drop fixers for a ramp deck.
Shaman for constructed...I do not see how a midrange gifts rock deck comes together with this pool of cards.
so basically Broodmate Wurm (it is called Armada Wurm is the person giving this information is correct)
Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
Naw, Arbor Elf's just a bad llanowar elves. Birds has been the accelerant/fixer staple of standard since...forever.
Armada Wurm
2GGWW
Creature-Wurm
Trample
When ~ enters the battlefield, but a 5/5 Wurm token with trample onto the battlefield.
5/5
Azorius Keyrune
3
Artifact
T: Add W or U to your mana pool
WU: Azorius Keyrune becomes a 2/2 Blue and White creature with flying until end of turn.
Codex Shredder - 1
Artifact
tap: Target player puts the top card of their library into their graveyard
5, tap: Sac Codex Shredder: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand
Volatile Rig - 4
Artifact Creature
Trample
Volatile Rig attacks each turn if able
Whenever Volatile Rig is dealt damage, flip a coin. if you lose the flip, sac Volatile Rig.
When Volatile Rig dies, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, it deals 4 damage to each creature and player
4/4
I call it: Wallballs
Contingent acceleration and 0 fixing? I'm not falling out of my chair to run it. I mean, if I needed it I would, but it's not the bees knees - certainly not a replacement for birds.
I am super surprised we got this many of the remaining ones within a day of the booster box spoils
Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
"i swing with ym dragon to make anohter one
then i swing with both of them to make two more
are you ready to scoop"
It doesn't have to be, it just always has been. It enables most, if not all, of the mid-longrange green ramp strategies that have existed over the years. Removing it without a 1:1 replacement (and I don't think Shaman's good enough to be a 1:1) means that either they believe there are sufficient replacements or they don't want that kind of a ramp strategy to exist in this particular format. If it's the latter, it would be the first time they've decided that.
E: Or we'll get it in Gatecrash.
8 mana 6/6 with basically no effect
also why did no one talk about golgari charm, it's pretty nice!
which is pretty much the only place it'll do anything
Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
Dragons errywhere
is heartless summoning rotating
because that is a card custom made for a b/r heartless deck
Plus it's not a mana ability so someone can kill your Arbor elf in reaction to you trying to use its ability, denying you its power.
Turn 4 or 5 10 power stompy stomp go.
Hell, you could probably even curve into the red enchantment that gives all your creatures haste.
Awesome. Reminded of what could be Tamiyo's notes of Innistrad.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
The only ability I know that doesn't go on the stack is mana abilities like Birds or Llanwar.
Arbor elf distinctly doesn't have that ability.
GOD, WU!
Removing the creature doesn't remove the ability from the stack.
The effect is already on the stack, and will still occur even if the source is destroyed. The Arbor Elf taps itself as the cost of the ability, so that happens before the opponent can respond.
If the source needed to stick around, effects that have, "Sacrifice this creature," as a cost would be pointless.
Edit: The relevant rule:
So if my opponent has a guy with tap-deal one damage to target creature and activates the ability and I shock him in response he still get to do that damage?
Noted.
I started typing that while holding shift, realized caps lock was on, turned off caps lock, then typed the word holding down shift.
Wooo
IMO one of the more confusing rules
Edit: wow I just do not see other peoples posts today, I'm dumb
This is another section of the rules that needs to be rewritten, IMO. They put it together in a sort of awful fashion to prevent newbs from being screwed over by the stack, but now newbs think they can shock a guy and stop the trigger, which isn't right either. Unfortunately what I want would require another mass Oracle rewrite of any card with an activated ability that references making the object do something (like "UR: Prodigal Pyromancer makes a pony") to just doing something (like "UR: put a pony into play").
You forget that this block has land enchantments.
So early game it helps you with mana and late game it lets you double tap your land-chant.