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Colonel, why can't I just take their guns?

Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
edited April 2007 in Games and Technology
We all know that every videogame has rules to keep you from going against the game's unestablished borders. Normally you aren't always given a clear reason for why you can't do X during Y, or why Z isn't an option at all. But what about when the game tries to rationalize the rules for you? What are some in-game explanations that you either love or hate (or love to hate)?

My favorite attempt was in MGS2. Shortly after Raiden enters the Big Shell, if you examine one of the unconcscious guards and call up the Colonel, Raiden will ask why he can't just take the enemies' weapons while they're down. The response is a lengthy and absurd statement that all the soldiers have their DNA built into their weapons, so that the guns will only work when fired from their registered owners' hands.

I mean, come ON Kojima. :lol:

Professor Snugglesworth on
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Posts

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Recent offender: Gears of War
    When Marcus just stares at Raam as he kills Kim. There's nothing to stop him from killing Raam but he just stands there and watches.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Phoenix Down brings you back from NEAR-death, not DEATH-death.

    At least that's the popular theory. There just wasn't any room in the cutscene to toss in an attempted resuscitation, I guess.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    We all know that every videogame has rules to keep you from going against the game's unestablished borders. Normally you aren't always given a clear reason for why you can't do X during Y, or why Z isn't an option at all. But what about when the game tries to rationalize the rules for you? What are some in-game explanations that you either love or hate (or love to hate)?

    My favorite attempt was in MGS2. Shortly after Raiden enters the Big Shell, if you examine one of the unconcscious guards and call up the Colonel, Raiden will ask why he can't just take the enemies' weapons while they're down. The response is a lengthy and absurd statement that all the soldiers have their DNA built into their weapons, so that the guns will only work when fired from their registered owners' hands.

    I mean, come ON Kojima. :lol:

    Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay had the same mechanic. Guns were DNA locked so prisoners couldn't use them. Heck, not only could you not pick them up (you even got shocked and lost health if you tried), you even took a quick trip to the mainframe to actually put your DNA into the list so you could use them. I dunno, sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    Magus` on
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Obligatory "why am I looking for a key to this door when I have a rocket launcher and belt full of grenades?" If it even bothers being rationalized, it's something like "the door is supertanium, just looks wooden."

    LeumasWhite on
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  • chaossoldierchaossoldier Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    But the concept of a Phoenix is returning to life from the ashes of your corpse, which implies death is involved in some form.

    chaossoldier on
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  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    If that's the case, then that fits my definition of a weak excuse. Even if characters miraculously managed to ever avoid taking a lethal blow before being knocked out, wouldn't any enemies make sure the "deal was done", so to speak?

    Suriko on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    If that's the case, then that fits my definition of a weak excuse. Even if characters miraculously managed to ever avoid taking a lethal blow before being knocked out, wouldn't any enemies make sure the "deal was done", so to speak?

    One would wonder how being shot with bullets, lit on fire, then stabbed makes one simpled knocked out.

    randombattle on
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    I never asked for this!
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I remember when Full Throttle came out.

    Tim Schafer compared Ben to Bernard from Maniac mansion. Given a ham sandwich and a locked door:

    Bernard would grease the floor with the mayo, slide a slice of bread under the door, use the toothpick to pop the key out of the door and drag it back under on the bread.

    Ben would kick down the door and eat the ham sandwich.

    On that note, I'm off to play some Full Throttle. Oh, Mark Hamill, you evil bastard!

    Threepio on
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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    If that's the case, then that fits my definition of a weak excuse. Even if characters miraculously managed to ever avoid taking a lethal blow before being knocked out, wouldn't any enemies make sure the "deal was done", so to speak?

    One would wonder how being shot with bullets, lit on fire, then stabbed makes one simpled knocked out.

    http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=228

    Fiaryn on
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  • DangerousDangerous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Battlefield 2 pissed me off the most.

    *Flies an inch into the red zone*

    HQ: Return to the mission area, deserters will be executed!

    Me: Fuck you I want to explore the countryside and bomb the crap out of some houses with my sweet-ass jet!

    HQ: Ok we warned your stupid ass.

    *BOOOM*

    Dangerous on
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  • Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    FF7. Aeris.

    I HAVE PHEONIX DOWN. LET ME GIVE HER THE GODDAMN PHEONIX DOWN ALREADY. D:

    I think the arguement is that you don't die in battle, you merely get knocked out. Thus, they don't restore life, they restore consciousness.

    If that's the case, then that fits my definition of a weak excuse. Even if characters miraculously managed to ever avoid taking a lethal blow before being knocked out, wouldn't any enemies make sure the "deal was done", so to speak?

    One would wonder how being shot with bullets, lit on fire, then stabbed makes one simpled knocked out.

    Not to mention having the entire planet obliterated out from under you at several times.

    Last Son on
  • SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The classic one is Locked doors. YOU NEED A KEY!

    But... but I have a grenade...

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
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  • EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I suppose any situation where the enemy/other characters can do something you can't without good reason. Not being able to wear armour in Torment was slightly jarring, but come to think of it, I barely noticed at the time.

    Walls and rivers in Infinity Engine games- especially when the barrier to your brawny protagonist's progess is a five-foot wooden fence. I can't hop over it... why, exactly?

    Hmm. Being able to bash more doors down in general would be helpful. Especially in RPGs- I was slightly surprised that Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines didn't just let me use a fireaxe or shotgun on the odd lock.

    Edcrab on
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  • Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Recent offender: Gears of War
    When Marcus just stares at Raam as he kills Kim. There's nothing to stop him from killing Raam but he just stands there and watches.

    Oh please, it takes like four minutes worth of headshots to kill him, like you'd have the time to kill him then.
    :P

    Blake T on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Obligatory "why am I looking for a key to this door when I have a rocket launcher and belt full of grenades?" If it even bothers being rationalized, it's something like "the door is supertanium, just looks wooden."

    I have never, ever heard any attempts to rationalize the sturdiness of locked doors. Usually "the door is locked, I need a key" is all you ever get.

    I think the worst offender of this, ever, has to be Dragon Quest VIII. Your entire party is locked up (weapons, armor and magic intact, I might add) in the cheapest looking wooden barricade ever. Yet it takes them
    30 days
    to find a way out. :/

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Guild Wars.

    A foot-high fence/small stream/tiny rockslide/pebble/ant stands in your way. Run two miles back the way you came and take the alternate path.

    Some adventure game with a knight:
    >Pull the lever

    You should not pull strange levers.

    What. The. Fuck.

    Suriko on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    i like the way Shade does it; whenever you try to do something like open a door or go outside, it's because the character doesn't want to do it, not because the game doesn't allow it.

    >turn off lamp

    You do not want the dark.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • chaossoldierchaossoldier Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Cutscenes would sometimes piss me off. My character can jump up, cut 300 bullets to pieces with a flick of his finger and spout off a witty one-liner, but then they suddenly lose that badassness as soon as you're back in control of them.

    chaossoldier on
    stopit.gifsophia.gifrotj.png
  • EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, the reverse is just as bad: that is, being an inexplicable badass ingame, but being oddly shit once you lose control of your character's actions.

    "Hey- he's kidnapping Bob! Fuck that! I move faster than light on speed! I could get over there and kill those bastards in two goddamn turns!"

    Edcrab on
    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i like the way Shade does it; whenever you try to do something like open a door or go outside, it's because the character doesn't want to do it, not because the game doesn't allow it.

    >turn off lamp

    You do not want the dark.

    You see an extremely sexy woman with a nice pair of twins.

    >Have sex with the woman.

    You do not want to have sex with this really hot woman.

    Couscous on
  • ZedroZedro Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    When i was playing Silent Hill 4, i asked myself why Henry didn't just break the windows and climb out. But noo, let's climb into this strange hole that leads to god-knows-where.

    But then again, it wouldn't be much of a game if it only required you to break the windows open (like it was ever much of a game to being with ^_~).

    Zedro on
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  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    To expand on the post above mine, I love how in RPGs you find a character who is super bad-ass, you're estatic to find out he'll be in your party and then.. he's barely any more powerful than you are. D:

    Magus` on
  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Zedro wrote: »
    When i was playing Silent Hill 4, i asked myself why Henry didn't just break the windows and climb out. But noo, let's climb into this strange hole that leads to god-knows-where.

    But then again, it wouldn't be much of a game if it only required you to break the windows open (like it was ever much of a game to being with ^_~).

    Well, I think it's pretty obvious that no exit would work. Had he tried to lift the windows, it would somehow be too heavy. Just cause it wasn't explained doesn't mean it can't be easily.

    Magus` on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    To expand on the post above mine, I love how in RPGs you find a character who is super bad-ass, you're estatic to find out he'll be in your party and then.. he's barely any more powerful than you are. D:

    Or yeah you fight some guy at some point in the story and then later on he joins your party and is weaker then when you fought him.

    randombattle on
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    I never asked for this!
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i like the way Shade does it; whenever you try to do something like open a door or go outside, it's because the character doesn't want to do it, not because the game doesn't allow it.

    >turn off lamp

    You do not want the dark.

    It's the same with most adventure games, text or graphical.

    You might be stuck at the top of a cliff and want to get down to the bottom... so you try:
    "Use rope with tree"

    Then the game tells you:
    "I don't think that would work"

    Then you scream at the monitor: "Try it bitch, I bet it would!".

    Then you find out you actually needed to use the rope with the boulder, or use a vine or something. The rope would have worked damnit.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    To Kojima's credit, there are "smartguns" which only respond to fingerprint scans in the grip of the gun and some police departments were starting to use these when MGS2 was released. Obviously in case a perp gets a hold of your firearm, he's not going to be able to use it.

    Wiki-link

    Nocren on
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  • RedMageDarionRedMageDarion Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I love the way Dragon Quest games (and some others) handle their save system.

    King: "Tell me of your adventures so I can record them in the Imperial Scrolls of Honor."
    Hero: "Uhh... yeah. So I totally got to like Level 99. Plus I found this sweet armor that... uhhh... gives me infinite MP 'n'stuff... Yeah."
    King: "It has been recorded in the Imperial Scrolls of Honor. Please hold reset while turning the power off."
    *Reboot, awesomeness ensues.*

    Same thing goes for if you save in a Diary, or Adventure Log. Nobody's watching, can't you just LIE and write down all sorts of shit you haven't actually done?

    RedMageDarion on
    Pokemon White - 3954.6369.6328
  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Hmmmm.... The biggie is probably 'Just because you are the boss of these bad guys, why can you take 100 bullets to the face wheras I can pop a cap in the head of one of your minions and be done with you?'

    Max Payne I stab at thee, but then again that game went by the philosophy of 'If it doesn't hurt, it can't kill you', hence the overdoses of painkillers you feed Max.

    Hotlead Junkie on
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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Oh, a corollary to the OP: the enemies who never run out of ammo. Ever. You can turn on invincibility and stand in the middle of the stage, letting them mow you down for half an hour. The minute you kill them, and take the gun? Two rounds left. I've never seen an attempt at that one getting explained.

    Edit: out of curiousity, was there ever any explanation offered for the Resident Evil random item hunts? Find a widget to fit into the clock so you can access the stairwell, which is the only way into the kitchen?

    LeumasWhite on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Nocren wrote: »
    To Kojima's credit, there are "smartguns" which only respond to fingerprint scans in the grip of the gun and some police departments were starting to use these when MGS2 was released. Obviously in case a perp gets a hold of your firearm, he's not going to be able to use it.

    Wiki-link

    Somehow I don't think that a terrorist organization using surplus Soviet AK-74s would be using this technology, though. It's a suspension of disbelief thing.

    Of course, this is MGS2 we're talking about.

    Daedalus on
  • KPCKPC Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Re: Star Ocean 3

    Hey, I just crash-landed on a technologically-backwards planet. Let's create a sword so I blend in. Let's NOT make the best sword in the game; the weakest sword looks much cooler.

    /die

    KPC on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well, I think it's pretty obvious that no exit would work. Had he tried to lift the windows, it would somehow be too heavy. Just cause it wasn't explained doesn't mean it can't be easily.

    Yeah, I think the game tells you that the windows were bolted shut or something. Besides, I always let stuff like that slip by in Silent Hill, because it was pretty much established in the first game you can't leave the town until it LETS you go.

    Since I just got to this part last night (FFXII)....
    Nono: "Boss, the Strahl has been heavily damaged! It's going to take a long time to get it working again!"

    (many, many hours later)

    Reddas: "This stone will help you get to the Lighthouse. Equip it on the Strahl and you can make the trip easily."

    Nono: "Boss, guess what! I just finished repairing the Strahl! Oh, you got a stone, kupo!"

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Nocren wrote: »
    To Kojima's credit, there are "smartguns" which only respond to fingerprint scans in the grip of the gun and some police departments were starting to use these when MGS2 was released. Obviously in case a perp gets a hold of your firearm, he's not going to be able to use it.

    Wiki-link

    Somehow I don't think that a terrorist organization using surplus Soviet AK-74s would be using this technology, though. It's a suspension of disbelief thing.

    Of course, this is MGS2 we're talking about.

    I love how it tries to explain all those little minor details then just goes 'lol bisexual ninja vampires'.


    "Colonel, how does this super advanced doohicky work?"

    "Well you see, it destabilises particles that radiate from your body to create a subatomicly generated feild that amplifies your reverse trust all power to the main deflector shield"

    "Nuh-huh, and how can this woman keep deflecting all my bullets?"

    "I dunno. Magic?"

    Hotlead Junkie on
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  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    Marlor wrote: »
    i like the way Shade does it; whenever you try to do something like open a door or go outside, it's because the character doesn't want to do it, not because the game doesn't allow it.

    >turn off lamp

    You do not want the dark.

    It's the same with most adventure games, text or graphical.

    You might be stuck at the top of a cliff and want to get down to the bottom... so you try:
    "Use rope with tree"

    Then the game tells you:
    "I don't think that would work"

    Then you scream at the monitor: "Try it bitch, I bet it would!".

    Then you find out you actually needed to use the rope with the boulder, or use a vine or something. The rope would have worked damnit.
    no, see

    that's the game telling you directly that it won't work, like saying 'You don't need to use the word 'lightbulb' to complete this story.'

    shade changes it so that the error messages help you to identify further with the protagonist

    considering shade is all about identity, that's pretty important

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    no, see

    that's the game telling you directly that it won't work, like saying 'You don't need to use the word 'lightbulb' to complete this story.'

    shade changes it so that the error messages help you to identify further with the protagonist

    considering shade is all about identity, that's pretty important

    I still think I'd be tempted to yell at the screen "No, really, I do want the dark, stop telling me I don't".

    But I haven't played Shade, so maybe it actually works well in practice.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why did Leon not bother to learn Spanish before being sent to Spain to find the president's daughter? The first thing he had to fucking do was talk to Spanish people.

    Hotlead Junkie on
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  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I know that in RE2, the reason for the spreading of the keys is because the police chief was hampering the survior's efforts.

    As for the rest of the series, Umbrela are a bunch of evil pricks.
    (this is from the plot analsys and reguards to the reason about the lack of bathrooms)

    "...there might be a *secret passage* somewhere... that leads to
    the toilets. Since about every room in [Raccoon City] is initially
    locked and requires the fetching of numerous objects in previously
    unlocked areas, why shouldn't the can be the same? But due to
    memory shortage, the necessary items weren't included in the [games].

    "So the cops never had to 'hold it.' They did have to plan in
    advance though... 'Hey, Charley, there's a chance that I might
    need to go to the little boys' room in about 45 minutes. I better
    quit and head for it right now. You cover me.'"

    Nocren on
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  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Red Faction alleviated the locked door problem a little bit. Sometimes you could just blow a tunnel around the damn things and to hell with the keys.

    BlueDestiny on
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